EPTJust say that to yourself, I promise the uncurable disease will be cured! It worked for me it can work for you too! I am going to write a success story of how i got cured, and then sell it. From all of these threads popping up I can see this is actually a real issue. I'll make a lot of money lol
Psych approach to ladder anxiety - Page 3
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ishyishy
United States826 Posts
Just say that to yourself, I promise the uncurable disease will be cured! It worked for me it can work for you too! I am going to write a success story of how i got cured, and then sell it. From all of these threads popping up I can see this is actually a real issue. I'll make a lot of money lol | ||
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Moochlol
United States456 Posts
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Frumsan
Sweden117 Posts
On December 22 2011 05:10 partysnatcher wrote: Thanks!  CBT can, in a way, be considered psychodynamic, but I assume you mean the original philosophies like Freuds psychoanalysis. A psychoanalytic point of view would see your anxiety as a representation of inner conflicts based in childhood. It would send you into months and months of talk therapy until all your overt and covert conflicts had been resolved and you had become a more relaxed person. However, a psychodynamic direction like Kohut's Self-psychology would focus very strongly on your narcissistic ego and ambitions. The "split" in personality many feel after a loss (where you become a different person for half an hour), would be considered a symptom of Self damage. Therapy would try to make your Self as whole as possible - and mutate your narcissistic drive to a healthy, productive narcissism (not to be confused with Narcissistic Personality Disorder). But in general, cognitive-behavioral therapy is pretty much the most acknowledged method in psychology right now - it is highly acknowledged even outside of psychology - most strikingly when applied to the psychosomatic field; where it is far more effective than medicine. It is considered the most effective way to fix, for instance, sleep disturbances or irritable bowel syndrome. TL;DR: CBT is pretty good!  Thanks for you response. While I agree that CBT can in some aspects be viewed as similar to the Psychodymanic Theory I don't think that they can generally be viewed as conveying the same message in a lot of arguments. Regarding the cognitive-behavioral therapy being the most acknowledged method right now in psychology I strongly oppose this statement; I feel like the psychodynamic paradigm (if you want to call it that) is still at least as viable as the CBT-paradigm. In particular object to the statement that it's more effective in medicine in the psychosomatic field; especially since CBT isn't used without medicine and psychodynamics isn't used only with medicine. | ||
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Snettik
Finland186 Posts
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FallDownMarigold
United States3710 Posts
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FADCoUltra
Canada73 Posts
On December 22 2011 05:06 ishyishy wrote: Some good scientific information here. Well written. However.... WHY in the hell are people STILL posting threads about this?! For the life of me I will *never* understand why anyone would have 'anxiety' while playing a video game if there is litterally NO consequences of failing at it and virtually no reward for winning. You mentioned something about 'if we dont know the consequences, we make them up'. This makes no sense to me whatsoever. I am pretty sure that everyone knows they will lose ladder points and move down in rank if they lose; we know the consequence. If I win a ladder game, I get some points, congrats to me! If I win 10 more in a row, I get more points! But, no one is going to bend over and give me a check for 10k and sign me to a team. That is one thing everyone needs to get out of their minds right now: success on ladder, especially for casual players, will not financially or physically benefit you in any way. Everyone likes to win. I dont know a single person that thinks losing is more fun than winning at ANYTHING. However, there is no reason for this added layer of 'stress' because of a game. Honestly, if you are an average player and you are not contracted to a team or you are not in a tournament, no one is going to care if you win or lose. No one is going to hurt you for losing, it wont cost you money for losing, you will LOSE nothing but a virtual number that has no meaning at all. Am i in the minority for thinking this way? Sure I love winning, and I dont particularly like losing, but it doesnt stress me! It does not cause mental anxiety for me! Why should it? Give me one reason why it would be *normal* for me to feel anxiety playing a video game under the circumstances that I previously mentioned. In fact, I have a couple friends that bought the game and have barely played it at all! They tell me "i'm not good...ill just lose..." and this is their reason for not playing. Even if they have nothing TO lose and virtually nothing to gain, they still wont play it reguardless if they are interested in it or not (obv they were because they bought it). If i had a nickel for every ladder fear thread i would be rich Was just waiting for one of this post to come up. For people who don't experience the anxiety, it is very difficult to understand. Your reaoning here is all very sound and logical. However many anxieties are illogical in their nature. I'm not as insightful as the OP, but I can try to describ. Obvoiuse winning the game is enjoyable, and lossing is not. But some people experience these win/losses more profoundly than others, some would descrip a rush of high after wining a game, hearts punding and everything, very satisfying. And experience a low after lossing a game that leaves you feeling like shit. It's very similar to the gambler's rush. Some feel it, some don't, and won't get it. For those who experience it, some get the highs more than the low, and some get the lows more than the highs. Some doesn't get too low after lossing but a huge high/good feeling when they win, so they keep playing to chase that high (again, the gamler's rush). Some don't get too much good feeling when they win, but really experience the low when they looses and is just not looking forward to experiencing more of this shitty feeling. At that point the game seize to be fun, but more of a chore. Like "I want to be good at SC so I can enjoy the winning, but I'm really not looking forward to loossing another game. But if I don't play, I can't get better." So it's like "I want to play, but I dont' want to loose" which ultimately results in not playing since we all know loosing is unavoidable. Good thing is this condition graduately goes away once you play more and play. It's always that initial hump that is the hardest that we all need to help people to get over, and not be dismissive. I remember playing in a local 8-ball pool league when I was in university. First a few times playing total strangers, I was a nevous reck. Can't even hold the que straight. But since it's a league I go with friends, when your game is up, your game is up. So i was kinda forced to play through the nervous games. But after like the first half of the season, I graduately got over it, and finally felt completely normal to play strangers. I believe the same would apply here. I hope this helps people who don't experience ladder anxiety to understand this phenomenon a little better. It is a real thing. A lot of peopel are affected by it, myself included. Let help everyone get over that initial hump and get more active players online! | ||
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CounterOrder
Canada457 Posts
The cure to ladder anxiety is actually Clonazepam. :p Naw, i get it RX, social anxiety flt. I think im going to try some 1v1 again... PS: To some people who dont understand, rationality has nothing on anxiety, so if you dont get it then dont comment and be happy. | ||
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NeonFox
2373 Posts
By doing that ladder becomes a means to improve that build, loses are even better than wins because it exposes a weakness in your play, that you can fix. Next step is using your base build to work out different transitions and game plans, see what a certain transition works against and it fails against. By doing this it feels like you are building something, I'm having a lot more fun on the ladder, I honestly haven't felt anxious in a long time and my level has risen by a lot. | ||
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Tobberoth
Sweden6375 Posts
Not playing for a period actually helped me, because I could rationalize my skill. I could state that sure, I'm actually good at the game, but I haven't played in ages, so of course I'm going to suck. Eventually, that translated into me realizing that I'm actually plat, maybe even high gold. This changed my experience of the game a lot. I accept my losses better, and I feel way happier when I win. I'm rank 4 platinum at the moment, but I still don't consider myself to be at diamond level, and I'm even quite proud of my current placement. Another yber important thing not mentioned: * GET GOOD AT SAFE STANDARD BUILDS. PERFECT THEM. I'm amazed how much better I feel now that I ALWAYS go 14 gas 14 pool. Previously I went hatch first in every matchup and every match, and I was extremely stressed since cheese and even standard early aggression either killed me outright, or made me stress my brains out trying to defend it. Now that I go a safe standard opening which is identical in all situations, I can stay completely calm in the early game and learn to react to everything. 14/14 can hold EVERYTHING if played properly and the economic loss compared to hatch first is miniscule unless you're high master, no need to be greedy when you're not even diamond. | ||
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Bane_
United Kingdom494 Posts
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Tobberoth
Sweden6375 Posts
On December 22 2011 05:48 Bane_ wrote: Could the design of the SC2 ladder itself be exacerbating the issue? I honestly don't remember hearing about this in previous games yet threads relating to it pop up all the time now on TL. It happens in all competitive games. The reason why it's not such a big issue in many other games is that either: 1. It's team play, you can blame everyone else. Which is why people who fear ladder in SC2 usually play team ladder instead. 2. The more skillbased and competitive it is, the more harshly you punish yourself. If you lose at dice, who cares? It was just luck, it says nothing about you or your skill. If you lose in SC2 though, you KNOW that either the opponent is just better than you, or you played bad. That's tough. | ||
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Sablar
Sweden880 Posts
On December 22 2011 05:30 Frumsan wrote: Thanks for you response. While I agree that CBT can in some aspects be viewed as similar to the Psychodymanic Theory I don't think that they can generally be viewed as conveying the same message in a lot of arguments. Regarding the cognitive-behavioral therapy being the most acknowledged method right now in psychology I strongly oppose this statement; I feel like the psychodynamic paradigm (if you want to call it that) is still at least as viable as the CBT-paradigm. In particular object to the statement that it's more effective in medicine in the psychosomatic field; especially since CBT isn't used without medicine and psychodynamics isn't used only with medicine. Nice write up! Best I've seen by far in regards to ladder anxiety. Some parts like "accepting adrenaline" (and singer-schachter issues with replication) are a bit too much for me but I will just think of it as being aware of the sympathetic arousal and there are techniques that can help deal with that as well for anyone motivated enough. Anyway I liked it. And I also like CBT so the main difference is that there are plenty of randomized controlled trial studies for the effectiveness (with or without medication) for CBT especially regarding depression but also in many other areas. The evidence for its effectiveness is very good and the way the studies are made makes it possible to directly compare it to for example medication. CBT isn't used with medication but of course it can be just like PDT. | ||
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zappa372
Chile365 Posts
I approve this post! | ||
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starslayer
United States696 Posts
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partysnatcher
156 Posts
On December 22 2011 04:26 Maggost wrote: Oh god. Everytime i play 1v1 my hands are shaking and my heart it's pumping a lot, maybe that's because it's my first RTS game... But i am raging a lot when i loose a 1v1 match, i suck at 1v1 and i have achieved my 1000 team wins the last season, playing team games it's more relaxing and fun for me but in 1v1, i dont know what to stay calm. Some questions: - What happens if you play a match against a noob / someone below your own level? Is that more relaxing? - Is it more relaxing if you use someone elses account? - If you use a "for fun" strategy (where you are basically doomed to lose), is that still stressful? Here are some simple tips: * Your hands don't shake nearly as much as you think during adrenaline. You take in a lot more information with adrenaline in your system, and you notice more details - meaning your hands may seem to be shaking more than they do. * Adrenaline gives you "tunnel vision". This means you notice the things you focus on (like your hands). Once the game starts, you will probably find your focus being sucked into the game to the point where you almost forget you have a body. Take some time to prepare and get used to the feeling. Predict the sensations before they happen: 1) Tell yourself before you start playing that OK - now, my heart is going to start pumping hard and my hands are going to feel like they're shaking, but that's normal. 2) After you press "Find game", realize that once the countdown begins, you will feel a jolt of excitement, and your heart is going to be pumping even faster. 3) As you get more excited, experiment moving your mouse around in circles and "figure eights" and study how (if at all) the precision of your movement is affected by more adrenaline. This could be a good start, just study how adrenaline affects you. | ||
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romelako
United States373 Posts
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LeKiNGG
Canada110 Posts
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Mr. Black
United States470 Posts
1. I started practicing builds and mechanics using YABOT and the multitask trainer -- I think a large part of ladder fear is not about the winning or losing, but rather those times in a game when you feel "lost" as to what you should be doing. Being able to do builds without thinking and being able to do what you want with your army make the game much less stressful, win or lose. 2. Focus on something besides wins, losses, ranks and leagues. Following Day9's advice, I started focusing on one thing in each game -- first it was spending larva for a week, then making overlords to never get supply blocked for a week, then injecting with queens for about a month, then scouting with ovies and so on. I still do this. Right now I am focused on not allowing an opponent to expand without me knowing it. If you systematically improve one thing at a time, you WILL improve and begin winning more games. By making the goal something that will help you win in the long run, you avoid getting wrapped up in the stress of each individual game. If you lose, at least you can say, "Well, at least I spread my creep." And even if you fail at your objective, you can say, "Well, next game I'm going to spread my creep." 3. Always be good mannered, and ignore bm. I don't know why, but it helps me to chat at the beginning of every game. I like to ask people who their favorite players are, did they see mlg, etc. When it's another person like me on the other end of the internet, it makes it feel less like a high stakes duel, and more like what it is...two nerds playing a game. If someone talks shit, I block them, or just say lol like they were joking (maybe they were). I know I used to get depressed by being abused by bm, but if you just laugh, it often takes the bm players off guard. Always gg when you lose -- it is a way of showing that your opponent may have defeated you (cheesed you even) but it doesn't affect your peace of mind. 4. FINALLY -- My breakthrough came one night several months ago when I was back in Silver. Before this night, I was playing, at most, 3-4 games a week. I was near the top of my bracket, and I didn't want to lose my place. On this night, I got REALLY drunk at a bar. When I got home I logged in and played about 30 games. I played some terrrrrrrrrrible games and lost several in a row, but I realized that I was having fun losing. After about five games, my hands started to take over and I started executing better; I started to win. The next day when I looked at my match history, I realized that I had done better wasted than I usually did sober. The secret ingredient was NOT booze. The secret ingredient was two things: playing more games, and not focusing on the result. Since then I play a lot more and I don't mind losing. I know that if I keep doing what I'm doing I'll get better. TL;DR -- Practice using YABOT and Multitask trainer; focus on one mechanic at a time, rather than winning; be good mannered; get drunk and play just to see how it feels not to care about results, then try to hold onto the feeling of not caring (don't become an alcoholic). | ||
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Bourneq
Sweden800 Posts
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straycat
230 Posts
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