EPTVery interesting read, thanks for writing this!
Psych approach to ladder anxiety - Page 18
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Fishriot
United States621 Posts
Very interesting read, thanks for writing this! | ||
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tskarzyn
United States516 Posts
[QUOTE]On August 05 2012 02:14 tskarzyn wrote: [QUOTE]On August 01 2012 09:21 prOpSaiton wrote: [QUOTE]On July 28 2012 08:47 Karawasa wrote: [QUOTE]On June 27 2012 06:24 IFF wrote: I have the solution to not being "psyched out" in a freakin video game: STOP BEING A PUSSY. GG.[/QUOTE] You can't just tell someone "If you're way too serious about something, then you should just quit and do something else" With everyone having that attitude we'd have pretty shitty olympians bouncing about on TV right now. I also understand that this phenomenon is just something you have or you don't and the ones who don't are for the most part assholes about it to the ones who do. Try and respect it/ignore it instead of calling people mentally unstable. [/QUOTE] You're right, but not for the reason you think... If you quit something because of anxiety, you will have trouble succeeding in any area. But... the train of thought that sc2 or sports or any other game is somehow more important because one in a million people make a living out of it is childish. I saw the same thing with the kids I worked with at Children's Hopsital. They'd spend literally every waking hour playing basketball, and when I asked them what they wanted to do when they grew up, the majority of them said "pro baller". They then throw their lives away chasing a pipe dream and end up working at a fast food chain or joining a gang. Parents and adults need to give their kids hard lessons and tell them things they sometimes don't want to hear, and sadly a lot of gamers seem to be lacking someone willing to do it. Sometimes you just have to be honest with yourself and admit that anything, even a hobby like sc, can be harmful to your development[/QUOTE] One in a million: 7000 people on earth are allowed to make a living from games/sports at any one time. [/QUOTE] Does it matter what the exact number is? It's a pipe dream. You have a much better chance of becoming a doctor or a surgeon (~650,000 in US alone) than you do of making decent living in games. That isn't even factoring the short career of many gamers or athletes and the setback they face when entering the work force after retiring from games. | ||
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Logurt
United States13 Posts
The best way to get over the fear of demotion is that If you truly belonged in that league, you will quickly make it back into that league instead of your new lower league, and if you are in Bronze, you can only go up. Next season, for anyone in bronze and wanting to get better, strive to get Silver. I did it this season, it's entirely possible, and you might realize you're better than you thought. | ||
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Trizztein
Canada45 Posts
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Bandicoot_01
1 Post
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DonDomingo
504 Posts
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Topdoller
United Kingdom3860 Posts
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RichardNPL
185 Posts
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beheamoth
44 Posts
You cant accept the loss. But its your favourite game and you profess you love it. On reading this post i went looking for my assignment to link for everyone to read but since moving house i cant find my uni box, which has me worried on so many levels now, i need this shit for my teaching jobs. Anyway, my findings were quite dark but there wasnt much of a scene in the late 90's early 2000's. It was a taboo subject, older people playing games, not like the 20 - 40 demographic we seem to have now, and the age is getting wider! It was regarded as a kids thing, difficult to find adult and teenage gamers who considered themselves hard core so i had to redefine the term hardcore to get my samples. A tip my professor gave to me when i did this is really try to look at all the sides of the argument before you go into the how to stop it, because you cant, have a look into the post actions of people who play games and their backgrounds, its really interesting the correlations you find. | ||
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opisska
Poland8852 Posts
 ). What ego issues? Nobody cares about your account in SC2! Unless you are one of like 200 recognizable progamers, your nickname is completely irrelevant to anyone. Are you seriously suggesting that people spend real-life money because they have a delusion that somebody cares who they are? What the hell is the difference between having one account that nobody cares about and two? By this logic, you would probably need to buy a new account before every game and that would get expensive pretty quickly.While the post may show a lot of your knowledge about psychology (I really don't feel qualified to judge that), the whole part about "current and future skill" is wrong and shows that you know much less about the actual game. People aren't suddenly getting worse in SC2, "metagame" is a Bronze-league excuse and the vast majority of players is going to get better by playing, not worse. Yeah, since Blizzard removed actual demotions, people are being placed lower than before at the start of a season more frequently, but that's just a sane conservative approach (ironically used to solve a totally insane issue). Probably the worst thing is your introduction when you say how brutal the ladder system is. Stop that! The system is anything but brutal, it pussies out on purpose. I know there are many people like me, who would like to have a system that would for you be ... I don't know what word would you use, because I have no idea what comes after "brutal" - but system that would bluntly tell you how good you are instead of hiding it behind silly "leagues". Posts like this only reinforce Blizzard in their stance against that system. I am pretty pissed that I can't see my own information just because some other people think that they would get hurt by it. In short, I don't like your post, because uses probably sound science to reinforce idiocy. It also contributes to the trend of "I am not lame, I have a condition". Surely, there are people who have real mental health issues (hell, my wife has been treated for clinical depression for almost 15 years and I would never dare to even imply that it's not a real illness), but it's surely not half the SC2 playerbase as they are often trying to pretend. | ||
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FFgringo
44 Posts
thanks | ||
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Cascade
Australia5405 Posts
On February 13 2016 17:07 opisska wrote: Are you paid by Blizzard? "Buying a smurf account to solve ego issues" is the most insane thing I have ever read on this forum (and I have read some Shauni blogs and quite a lot of stuff from several different baskerville accounts ). What ego issues? Nobody cares about your account in SC2! Unless you are one of like 200 recognizable progamers, your nickname is completely irrelevant to anyone. Are you seriously suggesting that people spend real-life money because they have a delusion that somebody cares who they are? What the hell is the difference between having one account that nobody cares about and two? By this logic, you would probably need to buy a new account before every game and that would get expensive pretty quickly.While the post may show a lot of your knowledge about psychology (I really don't feel qualified to judge that), the whole part about "current and future skill" is wrong and shows that you know much less about the actual game. People aren't suddenly getting worse in SC2, "metagame" is a Bronze-league excuse and the vast majority of players is going to get better by playing, not worse. Yeah, since Blizzard removed actual demotions, people are being placed lower than before at the start of a season more frequently, but that's just a sane conservative approach (ironically used to solve a totally insane issue). Probably the worst thing is your introduction when you say how brutal the ladder system is. Stop that! The system is anything but brutal, it pussies out on purpose. I know there are many people like me, who would like to have a system that would for you be ... I don't know what word would you use, because I have no idea what comes after "brutal" - but system that would bluntly tell you how good you are instead of hiding it behind silly "leagues". Posts like this only reinforce Blizzard in their stance against that system. I am pretty pissed that I can't see my own information just because some other people think that they would get hurt by it. In short, I don't like your post, because uses probably sound science to reinforce idiocy. It also contributes to the trend of "I am not lame, I have a condition". Surely, there are people who have real mental health issues (hell, my wife has been treated for clinical depression for almost 15 years and I would never dare to even imply that it's not a real illness), but it's surely not half the SC2 playerbase as they are often trying to pretend. A lot of people are not like you. I very much appreciate the east-european I-dont-take-any-shit mentality, where you are expected to shrug of whatever happens to you. I love it, it's cool. I try to adapt it at times. And I can see that ladder fear is extremely silly and a "pussy" phenomenon from that life style. And from that point of view it is a correct assessment, and I agree with it to some extent, even though I myself suffer from it at times. However, the mentality and life style that people are brought up with in much of western Europe (and I guess US), is a lot more entitled and worried. You're expected to be on top of and in control of everything in and around your life. With that life style, it can be pretty demoralising to repeatedly get confirmation from battle net that you are in fact not at all on top of the sc2 ladder. You are not able to beat that other noob. You are actually pretty crap at it, and regularly lose to other players that you consider bad at the game. That can stop people from playing sc2, and do other things that fits better with their life style. This doesn't mean that you have a psychological condition, apart from being brought up in a western society if you want to count that.  + Show Spoiler [political disclaimer] + Sorry for the stereotyping eastern/western Europeans. I hope no one is offended... I feel I have met enough of both to see this trend reliably, and many I have talked have agreed on this difference. So yes, it is an irrational feeling, and yes it is silly in a way, but you kindof have to acknowledge the empirical fact that a lot of players actually have it. Probably more so in some parts of the world than others. Blizzard may want to consider this fraction of their player base, and probably an even larger group of potential players, that doesn't play sc2 due to ladder fear. So if the OP has advice that can help, I think that's great. If you don't need it, good for you. But for those that do need it, why not let them have it? | ||
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opisska
Poland8852 Posts
On February 14 2016 01:32 Cascade wrote: A lot of people are not like you. I very much appreciate the east-european I-dont-take-any-shit mentality, where you are expected to shrug of whatever happens to you. I love it, it's cool. I try to adapt it at times. And I can see that ladder fear is extremely silly and a "pussy" phenomenon from that life style. And from that point of view it is a correct assessment, and I agree with it to some extent, even though I myself suffer from it at times. However, the mentality and life style that people are brought up with in much of western Europe (and I guess US), is a lot more entitled and worried. You're expected to be on top of and in control of everything in and around your life. With that life style, it can be pretty demoralising to repeatedly get confirmation from battle net that you are in fact not at all on top of the sc2 ladder. You are not able to beat that other noob. You are actually pretty crap at it, and regularly lose to other players that you consider bad at the game. That can stop people from playing sc2, and do other things that fits better with their life style. This doesn't mean that you have a psychological condition, apart from being brought up in a western society if you want to count that. + Show Spoiler [political disclaimer] + Sorry for the stereotyping eastern/western Europeans. I hope no one is offended... I feel I have met enough of both to see this trend reliably, and many I have talked have agreed on this difference. So yes, it is an irrational feeling, and yes it is silly in a way, but you kindof have to acknowledge the empirical fact that a lot of players actually have it. Probably more so in some parts of the world than others. Blizzard may want to consider this fraction of their player base, and probably an even larger group of potential players, that doesn't play sc2 due to ladder fear. So if the OP has advice that can help, I think that's great. If you don't need it, good for you. But for those that do need it, why not let them have it? On one hand, I can agree with you (why not let anyone have any advice, after all). On the other hand, I have mentioned that I think some of the advice is not only not helpful, but outright harmful for the receiver (make a smurf), some stems from OP's ignorance of the game and some is harmful generally to the goals I have about the game (I don't like to be not able to see my MMR just because other people are too sensitive for that). But I concede that me pointing out actual flaws can be easily hidden in the surrounding ranting In a somewhat tangential note, you would be surprised how much the "western" thinking you describe has taken over the "East" in the last two decades. What you describe, while stereotypical, would have been pretty spot on in the nineties, but it's really fading. I am just old enough  | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada16875 Posts
On February 14 2016 01:32 Cascade wrote: However, the mentality and life style that people are brought up with in much of western Europe (and I guess US), is a lot more entitled and worried. You're expected to be on top of and in control of everything in and around your life. With that life style, it can be pretty demoralising to repeatedly get confirmation from battle net that you are in fact not at all on top of the sc2 ladder. You are not able to beat that other noob. You are actually pretty crap at it, and regularly lose to other players that you consider bad... the best approach to dealing with ladder losses is to have a life going on beyond SC2 ladder play.. keep it what it was meant to be ... a game... if u take urself so seriously you can't laugh at urself during losses u probably aren't having much fun when u win either. | ||
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Dangermousecatdog
United Kingdom7084 Posts
On February 14 2016 01:32 Cascade wrote: If you are scared of playing ladder because you can't bear the thought of not being the best, does that apply to everything else in your life? How do you even get up in the morning? In the end I think so called ladder anxiety is just people not enjoying playing the game and in your case, attributing this to cultural issues.A lot of people are not like you. I very much appreciate the east-european I-dont-take-any-shit mentality, where you are expected to shrug of whatever happens to you. I love it, it's cool. I try to adapt it at times. And I can see that ladder fear is extremely silly and a "pussy" phenomenon from that life style. And from that point of view it is a correct assessment, and I agree with it to some extent, even though I myself suffer from it at times. However, the mentality and life style that people are brought up with in much of western Europe (and I guess US), is a lot more entitled and worried. You're expected to be on top of and in control of everything in and around your life. With that life style, it can be pretty demoralising to repeatedly get confirmation from battle net that you are in fact not at all on top of the sc2 ladder. You are not able to beat that other noob. You are actually pretty crap at it, and regularly lose to other players that you consider bad at the game. That can stop people from playing sc2, and do other things that fits better with their life style. This doesn't mean that you have a psychological condition, apart from being brought up in a western society if you want to count that. + Show Spoiler [political disclaimer] + Sorry for the stereotyping eastern/western Europeans. I hope no one is offended... I feel I have met enough of both to see this trend reliably, and many I have talked have agreed on this difference. So yes, it is an irrational feeling, and yes it is silly in a way, but you kindof have to acknowledge the empirical fact that a lot of players actually have it. Probably more so in some parts of the world than others. Blizzard may want to consider this fraction of their player base, and probably an even larger group of potential players, that doesn't play sc2 due to ladder fear. So if the OP has advice that can help, I think that's great. If you don't need it, good for you. But for those that do need it, why not let them have it? | ||
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Cascade
Australia5405 Posts
On February 14 2016 04:11 Dangermousecatdog wrote: If you are scared of playing ladder because you can't bear the thought of not being the best, does that apply to everything else in your life? How do you even get up in the morning? In the end I think so called ladder anxiety is just people not enjoying playing the game and in your case, attributing this to cultural issues. Yeah, if you love the game enough, you can overcome the ladder fear. It not like it's this excruciating physical pain. It's more like an uncomfortable annoyance. But it puts a higher passion-threshold to playing the game. I personally really enjoy starcraft, watch it regularly and have played since sc vanilla (yeah, I'm old as well oppiska) from launch. I'd say I have my share of passion for starcraft. However, I like other games as well, and if I want to play a few games in the evening, it is simply so much more relaxed (for me) to fire up diablo 3 or heroes of the storm instead. Regarding not getting up in the morning. There is actually a kindof widespread problem with depression in most western countries that seems to large extent stem from these high expectations from society[citation needed]. High suicide rates and whatnot. So yeah, while most people cope with it in everyday life, I think this phenomenon is also causing a lot of issues in the real life of some people. It's tempting for people that don't suffer from it go just "man up you wuss", but that hasn't proven to be very helpful advice, rather it is just reinforcing the problem I think. :/ | ||
Poopi
France12904 Posts
On February 14 2016 02:21 opisska wrote: On one hand, I can agree with you (why not let anyone have any advice, after all). On the other hand, I have mentioned that I think some of the advice is not only not helpful, but outright harmful for the receiver (make a smurf), some stems from OP's ignorance of the game and some is harmful generally to the goals I have about the game (I don't like to be not able to see my MMR just because other people are too sensitive for that). But I concede that me pointing out actual flaws can be easily hidden in the surrounding ranting In a somewhat tangential note, you would be surprised how much the "western" thinking you describe has taken over the "East" in the last two decades. What you describe, while stereotypical, would have been pretty spot on in the nineties, but it's really fading. I am just old enough I don't really see how a smurf isn't helpful. Sure now that there is unranked and that you can leave league, a smurf isn't mandatory. But before that it could be helpful to have an account where you could try strats and have shitty ranks that isn't your main. | ||
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CursOr
United States6335 Posts
On my wife's bnet account (also has lotv), I am mid diamond with a very similar win record but hover around 25-50 diamond. No sweating. No stress at all. Just don't care and it's really nice. I think there is a definite advantage playing on an account you don't care about. I just hope it will eventually lead to me not stressing so much when it "matters" ... will see. | ||
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Kitai
United States876 Posts
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Sissors
1395 Posts
On February 14 2016 13:08 Poopi wrote: I don't really see how a smurf isn't helpful. Sure now that there is unranked and that you can leave league, a smurf isn't mandatory. But before that it could be helpful to have an account where you could try strats and have shitty ranks that isn't your main. I don't think the issue is as much if it doesn't help, but if you can seriously advice people to solve your ladder anxiety by ruining the game for others. That is what making a smurf to get some easy wins is all about. | ||
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