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On December 20 2011 18:21 Amlitzer wrote:
Yeah this is definitely a sleazeball move by GOM, I'm just glad I'm already out of school or else I wouldn't be able to watch these games at all. GOM just keeps adding fuel to the fire, they are making it REALLY hard to sympathize with them on issues like Naniwa's lack of "professionalism" and so forth.
... What? How does GOM end up being the sleaze ball for not only announcing format changes months in advance, but also giving away free HQ stream for the 2012 Season 1 Up&Down matches?
I must be missing something here.
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On December 20 2011 19:27 stormfoxSC wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2011 19:23 eloist wrote:On December 20 2011 19:20 stormfoxSC wrote:On December 20 2011 18:58 eloist wrote:On December 20 2011 17:28 snowbird wrote:On December 20 2011 17:25 VictorJones wrote:
With the new format (new as of November), it was nowhere explicitly stated that the up/down matches would be included in the GSL Nov 2011 ticket.. I can see where you would assume that since it wasn't explicitly stated that they wouldn't be either until recently but yeah, this complaint has very little strength i think It was in fact explicitly stated when GSL November stated (that they would not be included). It was nested in a statement about the 2012 season and somewhat indirectly so. Why do I need to look to the 2012 setup to know that the last of 2011 does in fact differ from all the other seasons and tickets in 2011? I bought all the tickets Gom ever offered from the very beginning. You might take me for an informed customer but I in fact had no idea. The information was there, somewhere, sure. Given all that you shouldn't really be surprised that people feel tricked, however. "Why do I need to read publicly posted information to be informed about things I want to be informed about?" Are you serious, man? GOM announces new format, people don't bother to read and then get upset months later when they realize there's a new format and they didn't bother learning more about it. /facepalm I bought a 2011 ticket, didn't care about 2012 yet. If you think this is all good and kosher, fine. No need to be this hostile about it by calling me an idiot. I never used the word "idiot", let alone call you anything. Please stop being overdramatic and fallacious, both toward myself and toward GOM. You're the one that blindly purchased a product without reading what you got out of it when GOM announced changes had been made. That's on you entirely.
Yeah I bought the ticket blindly because I am a returning customer as I said. I don't explicitly go to make sure that the 2012 model of my car still comes with wheels when I go buy it because I liked the previous model. Gom makes me confirm that I am aware of bandwidth issues every single time I go buy a ticket. No reason for them not do this for these changes.
Plus, the new format is still confusing. If you go to http://www.gomtv.net/2012gsls1/ , it still shows up and down matches in the 2011 format. I bought a 2011 ticket, so what gives?
I am not even mad, watching the free stream as I am typing this. More annoyed that this is getting so complicated than anything. Haven't bought a 2012 ticket yet because I have no clue what's up with the GSTL. And as this shows, I should better make sure that I do before I buy I guess.
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On December 20 2011 19:37 eloist wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2011 19:27 stormfoxSC wrote:On December 20 2011 19:23 eloist wrote:On December 20 2011 19:20 stormfoxSC wrote:On December 20 2011 18:58 eloist wrote:On December 20 2011 17:28 snowbird wrote:On December 20 2011 17:25 VictorJones wrote:
With the new format (new as of November), it was nowhere explicitly stated that the up/down matches would be included in the GSL Nov 2011 ticket.. I can see where you would assume that since it wasn't explicitly stated that they wouldn't be either until recently but yeah, this complaint has very little strength i think It was in fact explicitly stated when GSL November stated (that they would not be included). It was nested in a statement about the 2012 season and somewhat indirectly so. Why do I need to look to the 2012 setup to know that the last of 2011 does in fact differ from all the other seasons and tickets in 2011? I bought all the tickets Gom ever offered from the very beginning. You might take me for an informed customer but I in fact had no idea. The information was there, somewhere, sure. Given all that you shouldn't really be surprised that people feel tricked, however. "Why do I need to read publicly posted information to be informed about things I want to be informed about?" Are you serious, man? GOM announces new format, people don't bother to read and then get upset months later when they realize there's a new format and they didn't bother learning more about it. /facepalm I bought a 2011 ticket, didn't care about 2012 yet. If you think this is all good and kosher, fine. No need to be this hostile about it by calling me an idiot. I never used the word "idiot", let alone call you anything. Please stop being overdramatic and fallacious, both toward myself and toward GOM. You're the one that blindly purchased a product without reading what you got out of it when GOM announced changes had been made. That's on you entirely. Yeah I bought the ticket blindly because I am a returning customer as I said. I don't explicitly go to make sure that the 2012 model of my car still comes with wheels when I go buy it because I liked the previous model. Gom makes me confirm that I am aware of bandwidth issues every single time I go buy a ticket. No reason for them not do this for these changes. Plus, the new format is still confusing. If you go to http://www.gomtv.net/2012gsls1/ , it still shows up and down matches in the 2011 format. I bought a 2011 ticket, so what gives? I am not even mad, watching the free stream as I am typing this. More annoyed that this is getting so complicated than anything. Haven't bought a 2012 ticket yet because I have no clue what's up with the GSTL. And as this shows, I should better make sure that I do before I buy I guess.
That's a terrible analogy, since GOM has plastered news about the new format all over their site since October. To try and fit your analogy, it'd be more like the car dealership having huge banners hanging everywhere saying "NEW CAR DESIGN: HOVER CARS" with the sub caption "No more wheels" and brochures readily available. Why would you still go and buy a hover car expecting it to have wheels? "I didn't look at the banners or brochures when I walked into the dealership because I liked last year's model" isn't really a valid argument.
It's also silly to suggest GOM plaster the information in even more places on their site than they already have; if you didn't see it as is, you wouldn't have seen it no matter how many more places it was displayed.
New format isn't confusing at all. You don't have a "2011 ticket", since there weren't year-long tickets for 2011; you do have a GSL November ticket, which GOM announced back in October would not have Up&Down matches due to the switch to the new 2012 format. The graphic compares the standard 2011 GSL format to the new 2012 GSL format, while GSL November had a unique hybrid-ish format that compared more closely to the 2012 format (all of which is explained in GOM announcements), so it can be considered an outlier.
edit: I bought the yearly 2012 premium ticket under the assumption that GSTL will end up being separate, based on the little table that GOM has provided. If it ends up getting included in my premium ticket, then that's just a bonus to me.
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You start with
New format isn't confusing at all.
and then you go all
You don't have a "2011 ticket", since there weren't year-long tickets for 2011; you do have a GSL November ticket, which GOM announced back in October would not have Up&Down matches due to the switch to the new 2012 format. The graphic compares the standard 2011 GSL format to the new 2012 GSL format, while GSL November had a unique hybrid-ish format that compared more closely to the 2012 format (all of which is explained in GOM announcements), so it can be considered an outlier.
and you don't see a contradiction there?
I was traveling a ton over the last two months but when I settled down again to watch some VODs that I expected to be there, I couldn't. Sucks for me. Anyways, I'll just keep my displeasure with this to myself now or take it to the Gom forums. I am not sure why you care so much for making sure that I correct my ways of being displeased with what Gom is doing as of late. If I as a day one customer can't figure this out, outside people getting into Starcraft are unlikely to either.
edit: I bought the yearly 2012 premium ticket under the assumption that GSTL will end up being separate, based on the little table that GOM has provided. If it ends up getting included in my premium ticket, then that's just a bonus to me.
I see your edit and raise you an edit. You tell me that I should not be assuming anything when buying a ticket and then go to tell me that you had to make assumption when buying yours. It's just bad to have to do that. There is nothing good about it.
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On December 20 2011 19:35 stormfoxSC wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2011 18:21 Amlitzer wrote:
Yeah this is definitely a sleazeball move by GOM, I'm just glad I'm already out of school or else I wouldn't be able to watch these games at all. GOM just keeps adding fuel to the fire, they are making it REALLY hard to sympathize with them on issues like Naniwa's lack of "professionalism" and so forth. ... What? How does GOM end up being the sleaze ball for not only announcing format changes months in advance, but also giving away free HQ stream for the 2012 Season 1 Up&Down matches? I must be missing something here.
yep you miss something here: the vods are not free so basically whole Europe can't watch the up/down of GSL November matches if they did not buy the ticket for gsl2012 yet
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the thing that is most confusing is the "UP AND DOWN MATCHES" section under videos and the text "context coming soon"
and of course the graphics.
On December 20 2011 20:02 stormfoxSC wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2011 19:37 eloist wrote:On December 20 2011 19:27 stormfoxSC wrote:On December 20 2011 19:23 eloist wrote:On December 20 2011 19:20 stormfoxSC wrote:On December 20 2011 18:58 eloist wrote:On December 20 2011 17:28 snowbird wrote:On December 20 2011 17:25 VictorJones wrote:
With the new format (new as of November), it was nowhere explicitly stated that the up/down matches would be included in the GSL Nov 2011 ticket.. I can see where you would assume that since it wasn't explicitly stated that they wouldn't be either until recently but yeah, this complaint has very little strength i think It was in fact explicitly stated when GSL November stated (that they would not be included). It was nested in a statement about the 2012 season and somewhat indirectly so. Why do I need to look to the 2012 setup to know that the last of 2011 does in fact differ from all the other seasons and tickets in 2011? I bought all the tickets Gom ever offered from the very beginning. You might take me for an informed customer but I in fact had no idea. The information was there, somewhere, sure. Given all that you shouldn't really be surprised that people feel tricked, however. "Why do I need to read publicly posted information to be informed about things I want to be informed about?" Are you serious, man? GOM announces new format, people don't bother to read and then get upset months later when they realize there's a new format and they didn't bother learning more about it. /facepalm I bought a 2011 ticket, didn't care about 2012 yet. If you think this is all good and kosher, fine. No need to be this hostile about it by calling me an idiot. I never used the word "idiot", let alone call you anything. Please stop being overdramatic and fallacious, both toward myself and toward GOM. You're the one that blindly purchased a product without reading what you got out of it when GOM announced changes had been made. That's on you entirely. Yeah I bought the ticket blindly because I am a returning customer as I said. I don't explicitly go to make sure that the 2012 model of my car still comes with wheels when I go buy it because I liked the previous model. Gom makes me confirm that I am aware of bandwidth issues every single time I go buy a ticket. No reason for them not do this for these changes. Plus, the new format is still confusing. If you go to http://www.gomtv.net/2012gsls1/ , it still shows up and down matches in the 2011 format. I bought a 2011 ticket, so what gives? I am not even mad, watching the free stream as I am typing this. More annoyed that this is getting so complicated than anything. Haven't bought a 2012 ticket yet because I have no clue what's up with the GSTL. And as this shows, I should better make sure that I do before I buy I guess. That's a terrible analogy, since GOM has plastered news about the new format all over their site since October. To try and fit your analogy, it'd be more like the car dealership having huge banners hanging everywhere saying "NEW CAR DESIGN: HOVER CARS" with the sub caption "No more wheels" and brochures readily available. Why would you still go and buy a hover car expecting it to have wheels? "I didn't look at the banners or brochures when I walked into the dealership because I liked last year's model" isn't really a valid argument. It's also silly to suggest GOM plaster the information in even more places on their site than they already have; if you didn't see it as is, you wouldn't have seen it no matter how many more places it was displayed. New format isn't confusing at all. You don't have a "2011 ticket", since there weren't year-long tickets for 2011; you do have a GSL November ticket, which GOM announced back in October would not have Up&Down matches due to the switch to the new 2012 format. The graphic compares the standard 2011 GSL format to the new 2012 GSL format, while GSL November had a unique hybrid-ish format that compared more closely to the 2012 format (all of which is explained in GOM announcements), so it can be considered an outlier. edit: I bought the yearly 2012 premium ticket under the assumption that GSTL will end up being separate, based on the little table that GOM has provided. If it ends up getting included in my premium ticket, then that's just a bonus to me.
a good analogy would be a new car, coming as a direct sequel to a previous one. the new deal not including 30% of the car and that being stated in fine printing.
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On December 20 2011 19:24 Zzoram wrote:
Well they're giving free HQ live stream as a half-way for people upset about it not being part of GSL Nov 2011.
So, they are giving away free HQ for who? US kids without jobs that can stay up until 7AM? Do they buy the ticket?
Or maybe for EU kids without jobs that watch it from 10 AM to 2PM when all others in Europe are working? Do they buy the ticket? No, we who can only watch VODs buy the ticket. I don't care they gave a free gift to people that don't pay and screwed over all the paying customers.
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On December 20 2011 20:08 eloist wrote:You start with and then you go all Show nested quote +You don't have a "2011 ticket", since there weren't year-long tickets for 2011; you do have a GSL November ticket, which GOM announced back in October would not have Up&Down matches due to the switch to the new 2012 format. The graphic compares the standard 2011 GSL format to the new 2012 GSL format, while GSL November had a unique hybrid-ish format that compared more closely to the 2012 format (all of which is explained in GOM announcements), so it can be considered an outlier. and you don't see a contradiction there? I was traveling a ton over the last two months but when I settled down again to watch some VODs that I expected to be there, I couldn't. Sucks for me. Anyways, I'll just keep my displeasure with this to myself now or take it to the Gom forums. I am not sure why you care so much for making sure that I correct my ways of being displeased with what Gom is doing as of late. If I as a day one customer can't figure this out, outside people getting into Starcraft are unlikely to either. Show nested quote +edit: I bought the yearly 2012 premium ticket under the assumption that GSTL will end up being separate, based on the little table that GOM has provided. If it ends up getting included in my premium ticket, then that's just a bonus to me. I see your edit and raise you an edit. You tell me that I should not be assuming anything when buying a ticket and then go to tell me that you had to make assumption when buying yours. It's just bad to have to do that. There is nothing good about it.
No, there is no contradiction; the 2012 format is pretty straightforward. GSL November is not the 2012 format. Like I said, it's a transition from the 2011 format to the 2012 format, so it had a unique format that GOM took the time to explain back in October (namely, no Up&Down, which also isn't that confusing to understand).
Being a day 1 customer doesn't mean anything; I'm also a day 1 customer and understood perfectly. The difference is a customer that doesn't look at what he's buying vs. one that does. That's all. The only thing I care about is calling out people who are wrongly lambasting GOM for their own shortcomings.
There's also nothing wrong with taking a product's contents at face value, while keeping in mind that additional content may or may not be added later. The difference between your assumption and mine is that I'm not expecting there to be content that was not promised to me -- and in fact, was explicitly stated would not be included. If you can't see the difference there, then there's no helping you.
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On December 20 2011 20:30 Soma.bokforlag wrote:the thing that is most confusing is the "UP AND DOWN MATCHES" section under videos and the text "context coming soon" and of course the graphics. Show nested quote +On December 20 2011 20:02 stormfoxSC wrote:On December 20 2011 19:37 eloist wrote:On December 20 2011 19:27 stormfoxSC wrote:On December 20 2011 19:23 eloist wrote:On December 20 2011 19:20 stormfoxSC wrote:On December 20 2011 18:58 eloist wrote:On December 20 2011 17:28 snowbird wrote:On December 20 2011 17:25 VictorJones wrote:
With the new format (new as of November), it was nowhere explicitly stated that the up/down matches would be included in the GSL Nov 2011 ticket.. I can see where you would assume that since it wasn't explicitly stated that they wouldn't be either until recently but yeah, this complaint has very little strength i think It was in fact explicitly stated when GSL November stated (that they would not be included). It was nested in a statement about the 2012 season and somewhat indirectly so. Why do I need to look to the 2012 setup to know that the last of 2011 does in fact differ from all the other seasons and tickets in 2011? I bought all the tickets Gom ever offered from the very beginning. You might take me for an informed customer but I in fact had no idea. The information was there, somewhere, sure. Given all that you shouldn't really be surprised that people feel tricked, however. "Why do I need to read publicly posted information to be informed about things I want to be informed about?" Are you serious, man? GOM announces new format, people don't bother to read and then get upset months later when they realize there's a new format and they didn't bother learning more about it. /facepalm I bought a 2011 ticket, didn't care about 2012 yet. If you think this is all good and kosher, fine. No need to be this hostile about it by calling me an idiot. I never used the word "idiot", let alone call you anything. Please stop being overdramatic and fallacious, both toward myself and toward GOM. You're the one that blindly purchased a product without reading what you got out of it when GOM announced changes had been made. That's on you entirely. Yeah I bought the ticket blindly because I am a returning customer as I said. I don't explicitly go to make sure that the 2012 model of my car still comes with wheels when I go buy it because I liked the previous model. Gom makes me confirm that I am aware of bandwidth issues every single time I go buy a ticket. No reason for them not do this for these changes. Plus, the new format is still confusing. If you go to http://www.gomtv.net/2012gsls1/ , it still shows up and down matches in the 2011 format. I bought a 2011 ticket, so what gives? I am not even mad, watching the free stream as I am typing this. More annoyed that this is getting so complicated than anything. Haven't bought a 2012 ticket yet because I have no clue what's up with the GSTL. And as this shows, I should better make sure that I do before I buy I guess. That's a terrible analogy, since GOM has plastered news about the new format all over their site since October. To try and fit your analogy, it'd be more like the car dealership having huge banners hanging everywhere saying "NEW CAR DESIGN: HOVER CARS" with the sub caption "No more wheels" and brochures readily available. Why would you still go and buy a hover car expecting it to have wheels? "I didn't look at the banners or brochures when I walked into the dealership because I liked last year's model" isn't really a valid argument. It's also silly to suggest GOM plaster the information in even more places on their site than they already have; if you didn't see it as is, you wouldn't have seen it no matter how many more places it was displayed. New format isn't confusing at all. You don't have a "2011 ticket", since there weren't year-long tickets for 2011; you do have a GSL November ticket, which GOM announced back in October would not have Up&Down matches due to the switch to the new 2012 format. The graphic compares the standard 2011 GSL format to the new 2012 GSL format, while GSL November had a unique hybrid-ish format that compared more closely to the 2012 format (all of which is explained in GOM announcements), so it can be considered an outlier. edit: I bought the yearly 2012 premium ticket under the assumption that GSTL will end up being separate, based on the little table that GOM has provided. If it ends up getting included in my premium ticket, then that's just a bonus to me. a good analogy would be a new car, coming as a direct sequel to a previous one. the new deal not including 30% of the car and that being stated in fine printing.
Except, again, it's not fine print. GOM announced all over the place, including on Team Liquid, the changes to GSL November prior to the tournament's start. I guess this is one of those "you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink" scenarios. GOM can shove the information in your face as much as it wants, but it can't make you read it.
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On December 20 2011 20:31 -Archangel- wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2011 19:24 Zzoram wrote:
Well they're giving free HQ live stream as a half-way for people upset about it not being part of GSL Nov 2011. So, they are giving away free HQ for who? US kids without jobs that can stay up until 7AM? Do they buy the ticket? Or maybe for EU kids without jobs that watch it from 10 AM to 2PM when all others in Europe are working? Do they buy the ticket? No, we who can only watch VODs buy the ticket. I don't care they gave a free gift to people that don't pay and screwed over all the paying customers.
I have a 9-5 job and I'm watching the HQ stream right now. There are also many other timezones than just in NA and EU; SEA immediately comes to mind, which would have access to the stream at a reasonable time.
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On December 20 2011 20:41 stormfoxSC wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2011 20:30 Soma.bokforlag wrote:the thing that is most confusing is the "UP AND DOWN MATCHES" section under videos and the text "context coming soon" and of course the graphics. On December 20 2011 20:02 stormfoxSC wrote:On December 20 2011 19:37 eloist wrote:On December 20 2011 19:27 stormfoxSC wrote:On December 20 2011 19:23 eloist wrote:On December 20 2011 19:20 stormfoxSC wrote:On December 20 2011 18:58 eloist wrote:On December 20 2011 17:28 snowbird wrote:On December 20 2011 17:25 VictorJones wrote:
With the new format (new as of November), it was nowhere explicitly stated that the up/down matches would be included in the GSL Nov 2011 ticket.. I can see where you would assume that since it wasn't explicitly stated that they wouldn't be either until recently but yeah, this complaint has very little strength i think It was in fact explicitly stated when GSL November stated (that they would not be included). It was nested in a statement about the 2012 season and somewhat indirectly so. Why do I need to look to the 2012 setup to know that the last of 2011 does in fact differ from all the other seasons and tickets in 2011? I bought all the tickets Gom ever offered from the very beginning. You might take me for an informed customer but I in fact had no idea. The information was there, somewhere, sure. Given all that you shouldn't really be surprised that people feel tricked, however. "Why do I need to read publicly posted information to be informed about things I want to be informed about?" Are you serious, man? GOM announces new format, people don't bother to read and then get upset months later when they realize there's a new format and they didn't bother learning more about it. /facepalm I bought a 2011 ticket, didn't care about 2012 yet. If you think this is all good and kosher, fine. No need to be this hostile about it by calling me an idiot. I never used the word "idiot", let alone call you anything. Please stop being overdramatic and fallacious, both toward myself and toward GOM. You're the one that blindly purchased a product without reading what you got out of it when GOM announced changes had been made. That's on you entirely. Yeah I bought the ticket blindly because I am a returning customer as I said. I don't explicitly go to make sure that the 2012 model of my car still comes with wheels when I go buy it because I liked the previous model. Gom makes me confirm that I am aware of bandwidth issues every single time I go buy a ticket. No reason for them not do this for these changes. Plus, the new format is still confusing. If you go to http://www.gomtv.net/2012gsls1/ , it still shows up and down matches in the 2011 format. I bought a 2011 ticket, so what gives? I am not even mad, watching the free stream as I am typing this. More annoyed that this is getting so complicated than anything. Haven't bought a 2012 ticket yet because I have no clue what's up with the GSTL. And as this shows, I should better make sure that I do before I buy I guess. That's a terrible analogy, since GOM has plastered news about the new format all over their site since October. To try and fit your analogy, it'd be more like the car dealership having huge banners hanging everywhere saying "NEW CAR DESIGN: HOVER CARS" with the sub caption "No more wheels" and brochures readily available. Why would you still go and buy a hover car expecting it to have wheels? "I didn't look at the banners or brochures when I walked into the dealership because I liked last year's model" isn't really a valid argument. It's also silly to suggest GOM plaster the information in even more places on their site than they already have; if you didn't see it as is, you wouldn't have seen it no matter how many more places it was displayed. New format isn't confusing at all. You don't have a "2011 ticket", since there weren't year-long tickets for 2011; you do have a GSL November ticket, which GOM announced back in October would not have Up&Down matches due to the switch to the new 2012 format. The graphic compares the standard 2011 GSL format to the new 2012 GSL format, while GSL November had a unique hybrid-ish format that compared more closely to the 2012 format (all of which is explained in GOM announcements), so it can be considered an outlier. edit: I bought the yearly 2012 premium ticket under the assumption that GSTL will end up being separate, based on the little table that GOM has provided. If it ends up getting included in my premium ticket, then that's just a bonus to me. a good analogy would be a new car, coming as a direct sequel to a previous one. the new deal not including 30% of the car and that being stated in fine printing. Except, again, it's not fine print. GOM announced all over the place, including on Team Liquid, the changes to GSL November prior to the tournament's start. I guess this is one of those "you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink" scenarios. GOM can shove the information in your face as much as it wants, but it can't make you read it.
Except they didn't shove it. They put it in few words in the middle of the wall of text and also made the picture about new format without clearly showing up/down are part of next season. And all this while knowing that up/down up until that moment were part of current season.
Not to mention this change itself is stupid. If I figured it out back then I would have complained then about it. Code A is now only to find out 12 new/old Code S members. And Up/down is to find out 10 more new/old Code S members. By what logic is one of those part of one season and one part of next?!
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On December 20 2011 20:43 stormfoxSC wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2011 20:31 -Archangel- wrote:On December 20 2011 19:24 Zzoram wrote:
Well they're giving free HQ live stream as a half-way for people upset about it not being part of GSL Nov 2011. So, they are giving away free HQ for who? US kids without jobs that can stay up until 7AM? Do they buy the ticket? Or maybe for EU kids without jobs that watch it from 10 AM to 2PM when all others in Europe are working? Do they buy the ticket? No, we who can only watch VODs buy the ticket. I don't care they gave a free gift to people that don't pay and screwed over all the paying customers. I have a 9-5 job and I'm watching the HQ stream right now. There are also many other timezones than just in NA and EU; SEA immediately comes to mind, which would have access to the stream at a reasonable time.
Good for you, most people would get fired for doing that. You are 0.1%
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On December 20 2011 20:52 -Archangel- wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2011 20:43 stormfoxSC wrote:On December 20 2011 20:31 -Archangel- wrote:On December 20 2011 19:24 Zzoram wrote:
Well they're giving free HQ live stream as a half-way for people upset about it not being part of GSL Nov 2011. So, they are giving away free HQ for who? US kids without jobs that can stay up until 7AM? Do they buy the ticket? Or maybe for EU kids without jobs that watch it from 10 AM to 2PM when all others in Europe are working? Do they buy the ticket? No, we who can only watch VODs buy the ticket. I don't care they gave a free gift to people that don't pay and screwed over all the paying customers. I have a 9-5 job and I'm watching the HQ stream right now. There are also many other timezones than just in NA and EU; SEA immediately comes to mind, which would have access to the stream at a reasonable time. Good for you, most people would get fired for doing that. You are 0.1%
Why would I get fired for doing what I want in my free time? It's 3:54 a.m. here right now.
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On December 20 2011 20:55 stormfoxSC wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2011 20:52 -Archangel- wrote:On December 20 2011 20:43 stormfoxSC wrote:On December 20 2011 20:31 -Archangel- wrote:On December 20 2011 19:24 Zzoram wrote:
Well they're giving free HQ live stream as a half-way for people upset about it not being part of GSL Nov 2011. So, they are giving away free HQ for who? US kids without jobs that can stay up until 7AM? Do they buy the ticket? Or maybe for EU kids without jobs that watch it from 10 AM to 2PM when all others in Europe are working? Do they buy the ticket? No, we who can only watch VODs buy the ticket. I don't care they gave a free gift to people that don't pay and screwed over all the paying customers. I have a 9-5 job and I'm watching the HQ stream right now. There are also many other timezones than just in NA and EU; SEA immediately comes to mind, which would have access to the stream at a reasonable time. Good for you, most people would get fired for doing that. You are 0.1% Why would I get fired for doing what I want in my free time? It's 3:54 a.m. here right now.
Ah sorry, I assumed you were talking about watching during working time. Ok, then you plan to work after sleeping 4-5 hours? And you think if you do that whole week it will not affect your working performance? and that you boss will not notice this?
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On December 20 2011 20:51 -Archangel- wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2011 20:41 stormfoxSC wrote:On December 20 2011 20:30 Soma.bokforlag wrote:the thing that is most confusing is the "UP AND DOWN MATCHES" section under videos and the text "context coming soon" and of course the graphics. On December 20 2011 20:02 stormfoxSC wrote:On December 20 2011 19:37 eloist wrote:On December 20 2011 19:27 stormfoxSC wrote:On December 20 2011 19:23 eloist wrote:On December 20 2011 19:20 stormfoxSC wrote:On December 20 2011 18:58 eloist wrote:On December 20 2011 17:28 snowbird wrote:
[quote]
It was in fact explicitly stated when GSL November stated (that they would not be included).
It was nested in a statement about the 2012 season and somewhat indirectly so. Why do I need to look to the 2012 setup to know that the last of 2011 does in fact differ from all the other seasons and tickets in 2011? I bought all the tickets Gom ever offered from the very beginning. You might take me for an informed customer but I in fact had no idea. The information was there, somewhere, sure. Given all that you shouldn't really be surprised that people feel tricked, however. "Why do I need to read publicly posted information to be informed about things I want to be informed about?" Are you serious, man? GOM announces new format, people don't bother to read and then get upset months later when they realize there's a new format and they didn't bother learning more about it. /facepalm I bought a 2011 ticket, didn't care about 2012 yet. If you think this is all good and kosher, fine. No need to be this hostile about it by calling me an idiot. I never used the word "idiot", let alone call you anything. Please stop being overdramatic and fallacious, both toward myself and toward GOM. You're the one that blindly purchased a product without reading what you got out of it when GOM announced changes had been made. That's on you entirely. Yeah I bought the ticket blindly because I am a returning customer as I said. I don't explicitly go to make sure that the 2012 model of my car still comes with wheels when I go buy it because I liked the previous model. Gom makes me confirm that I am aware of bandwidth issues every single time I go buy a ticket. No reason for them not do this for these changes. Plus, the new format is still confusing. If you go to http://www.gomtv.net/2012gsls1/ , it still shows up and down matches in the 2011 format. I bought a 2011 ticket, so what gives? I am not even mad, watching the free stream as I am typing this. More annoyed that this is getting so complicated than anything. Haven't bought a 2012 ticket yet because I have no clue what's up with the GSTL. And as this shows, I should better make sure that I do before I buy I guess. That's a terrible analogy, since GOM has plastered news about the new format all over their site since October. To try and fit your analogy, it'd be more like the car dealership having huge banners hanging everywhere saying "NEW CAR DESIGN: HOVER CARS" with the sub caption "No more wheels" and brochures readily available. Why would you still go and buy a hover car expecting it to have wheels? "I didn't look at the banners or brochures when I walked into the dealership because I liked last year's model" isn't really a valid argument. It's also silly to suggest GOM plaster the information in even more places on their site than they already have; if you didn't see it as is, you wouldn't have seen it no matter how many more places it was displayed. New format isn't confusing at all. You don't have a "2011 ticket", since there weren't year-long tickets for 2011; you do have a GSL November ticket, which GOM announced back in October would not have Up&Down matches due to the switch to the new 2012 format. The graphic compares the standard 2011 GSL format to the new 2012 GSL format, while GSL November had a unique hybrid-ish format that compared more closely to the 2012 format (all of which is explained in GOM announcements), so it can be considered an outlier. edit: I bought the yearly 2012 premium ticket under the assumption that GSTL will end up being separate, based on the little table that GOM has provided. If it ends up getting included in my premium ticket, then that's just a bonus to me. a good analogy would be a new car, coming as a direct sequel to a previous one. the new deal not including 30% of the car and that being stated in fine printing. Except, again, it's not fine print. GOM announced all over the place, including on Team Liquid, the changes to GSL November prior to the tournament's start. I guess this is one of those "you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink" scenarios. GOM can shove the information in your face as much as it wants, but it can't make you read it. Except they didn't shove it. They put it in few words in the middle of the wall of text and also made the picture about new format without clearly showing up/down are part of next season. And all this while knowing that up/down up until that moment were part of current season. Not to mention this change itself is stupid. If I figured it out back then I would have complained then about it. Code A is now only to find out 12 new/old Code S members. And Up/down is to find out 10 more new/old Code S members. By what logic is one of those part of one season and one part of next?!
It was a featured item on GOM's homepage at the time, it was featured on the GOMnibus announcement box, shown on many pages of the site, covered by sites such as TL, etc. Explain to me how they could have done better.
I really can't understand how you're confused by the 2012 GSL format. I recommend you actually read it, since your complaints imply you didn't do so before (otherwise you would have known about these changes back in October).
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On December 20 2011 21:09 stormfoxSC wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2011 20:51 -Archangel- wrote:On December 20 2011 20:41 stormfoxSC wrote:On December 20 2011 20:30 Soma.bokforlag wrote:the thing that is most confusing is the "UP AND DOWN MATCHES" section under videos and the text "context coming soon" and of course the graphics. On December 20 2011 20:02 stormfoxSC wrote:On December 20 2011 19:37 eloist wrote:On December 20 2011 19:27 stormfoxSC wrote:On December 20 2011 19:23 eloist wrote:On December 20 2011 19:20 stormfoxSC wrote:On December 20 2011 18:58 eloist wrote:
[quote]
It was nested in a statement about the 2012 season and somewhat indirectly so. Why do I need to look to the 2012 setup to know that the last of 2011 does in fact differ from all the other seasons and tickets in 2011? I bought all the tickets Gom ever offered from the very beginning. You might take me for an informed customer but I in fact had no idea.
The information was there, somewhere, sure. Given all that you shouldn't really be surprised that people feel tricked, however. "Why do I need to read publicly posted information to be informed about things I want to be informed about?" Are you serious, man? GOM announces new format, people don't bother to read and then get upset months later when they realize there's a new format and they didn't bother learning more about it. /facepalm I bought a 2011 ticket, didn't care about 2012 yet. If you think this is all good and kosher, fine. No need to be this hostile about it by calling me an idiot. I never used the word "idiot", let alone call you anything. Please stop being overdramatic and fallacious, both toward myself and toward GOM. You're the one that blindly purchased a product without reading what you got out of it when GOM announced changes had been made. That's on you entirely. Yeah I bought the ticket blindly because I am a returning customer as I said. I don't explicitly go to make sure that the 2012 model of my car still comes with wheels when I go buy it because I liked the previous model. Gom makes me confirm that I am aware of bandwidth issues every single time I go buy a ticket. No reason for them not do this for these changes. Plus, the new format is still confusing. If you go to http://www.gomtv.net/2012gsls1/ , it still shows up and down matches in the 2011 format. I bought a 2011 ticket, so what gives? I am not even mad, watching the free stream as I am typing this. More annoyed that this is getting so complicated than anything. Haven't bought a 2012 ticket yet because I have no clue what's up with the GSTL. And as this shows, I should better make sure that I do before I buy I guess. That's a terrible analogy, since GOM has plastered news about the new format all over their site since October. To try and fit your analogy, it'd be more like the car dealership having huge banners hanging everywhere saying "NEW CAR DESIGN: HOVER CARS" with the sub caption "No more wheels" and brochures readily available. Why would you still go and buy a hover car expecting it to have wheels? "I didn't look at the banners or brochures when I walked into the dealership because I liked last year's model" isn't really a valid argument. It's also silly to suggest GOM plaster the information in even more places on their site than they already have; if you didn't see it as is, you wouldn't have seen it no matter how many more places it was displayed. New format isn't confusing at all. You don't have a "2011 ticket", since there weren't year-long tickets for 2011; you do have a GSL November ticket, which GOM announced back in October would not have Up&Down matches due to the switch to the new 2012 format. The graphic compares the standard 2011 GSL format to the new 2012 GSL format, while GSL November had a unique hybrid-ish format that compared more closely to the 2012 format (all of which is explained in GOM announcements), so it can be considered an outlier. edit: I bought the yearly 2012 premium ticket under the assumption that GSTL will end up being separate, based on the little table that GOM has provided. If it ends up getting included in my premium ticket, then that's just a bonus to me. a good analogy would be a new car, coming as a direct sequel to a previous one. the new deal not including 30% of the car and that being stated in fine printing. Except, again, it's not fine print. GOM announced all over the place, including on Team Liquid, the changes to GSL November prior to the tournament's start. I guess this is one of those "you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink" scenarios. GOM can shove the information in your face as much as it wants, but it can't make you read it. Except they didn't shove it. They put it in few words in the middle of the wall of text and also made the picture about new format without clearly showing up/down are part of next season. And all this while knowing that up/down up until that moment were part of current season. Not to mention this change itself is stupid. If I figured it out back then I would have complained then about it. Code A is now only to find out 12 new/old Code S members. And Up/down is to find out 10 more new/old Code S members. By what logic is one of those part of one season and one part of next?! It was a featured item on GOM's homepage at the time, it was featured on the GOMnibus announcement box, shown on many pages of the site, covered by sites such as TL, etc. Explain to me how they could have done better. I really can't understand how you're confused by the 2012 GSL format. I recommend you actually read it, since your complaints imply you didn't do so before (otherwise you would have known about these changes back in October).
Why do I need to explain myself again? Just read what I already written (and others). There is nothing more to add here.
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On December 20 2011 21:01 -Archangel- wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2011 20:55 stormfoxSC wrote:On December 20 2011 20:52 -Archangel- wrote:On December 20 2011 20:43 stormfoxSC wrote:On December 20 2011 20:31 -Archangel- wrote:On December 20 2011 19:24 Zzoram wrote:
Well they're giving free HQ live stream as a half-way for people upset about it not being part of GSL Nov 2011. So, they are giving away free HQ for who? US kids without jobs that can stay up until 7AM? Do they buy the ticket? Or maybe for EU kids without jobs that watch it from 10 AM to 2PM when all others in Europe are working? Do they buy the ticket? No, we who can only watch VODs buy the ticket. I don't care they gave a free gift to people that don't pay and screwed over all the paying customers. I have a 9-5 job and I'm watching the HQ stream right now. There are also many other timezones than just in NA and EU; SEA immediately comes to mind, which would have access to the stream at a reasonable time. Good for you, most people would get fired for doing that. You are 0.1% Why would I get fired for doing what I want in my free time? It's 3:54 a.m. here right now. Ah sorry, I assumed you were talking about watching during working time. Ok, then you plan to work after sleeping 4-5 hours? And you think if you do that whole week it will not affect your working performance? and that you boss will not notice this?
There are people who function fine on little sleep. Going to sleep early (e.g. 6 p.m.) and waking up to watch GSL at 1:10 a.m. is also a perfectly viable option. Further, there's absolutely nothing forcing me to stay up every night of the week. Sometimes I don't end up watching some matches and simply look at the results on Liquipedia. Also, I purchased a 2012 yearly premium ticket (mentioned earlier in the thread), so I technically have access to the 2012 GSL Season 1 Up&Down VODs if I feel like doing that. One of the benefits of actually being a paying customer.
None of that even addresses the reality that many time zones allow for perfectly acceptable GSL viewing times, SEA in particular.
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On December 20 2011 21:12 -Archangel- wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2011 21:09 stormfoxSC wrote:On December 20 2011 20:51 -Archangel- wrote:On December 20 2011 20:41 stormfoxSC wrote:On December 20 2011 20:30 Soma.bokforlag wrote:the thing that is most confusing is the "UP AND DOWN MATCHES" section under videos and the text "context coming soon" and of course the graphics. On December 20 2011 20:02 stormfoxSC wrote:On December 20 2011 19:37 eloist wrote:On December 20 2011 19:27 stormfoxSC wrote:On December 20 2011 19:23 eloist wrote:On December 20 2011 19:20 stormfoxSC wrote:
[quote]
"Why do I need to read publicly posted information to be informed about things I want to be informed about?" Are you serious, man?
GOM announces new format, people don't bother to read and then get upset months later when they realize there's a new format and they didn't bother learning more about it. /facepalm I bought a 2011 ticket, didn't care about 2012 yet. If you think this is all good and kosher, fine. No need to be this hostile about it by calling me an idiot. I never used the word "idiot", let alone call you anything. Please stop being overdramatic and fallacious, both toward myself and toward GOM. You're the one that blindly purchased a product without reading what you got out of it when GOM announced changes had been made. That's on you entirely. Yeah I bought the ticket blindly because I am a returning customer as I said. I don't explicitly go to make sure that the 2012 model of my car still comes with wheels when I go buy it because I liked the previous model. Gom makes me confirm that I am aware of bandwidth issues every single time I go buy a ticket. No reason for them not do this for these changes. Plus, the new format is still confusing. If you go to http://www.gomtv.net/2012gsls1/ , it still shows up and down matches in the 2011 format. I bought a 2011 ticket, so what gives? I am not even mad, watching the free stream as I am typing this. More annoyed that this is getting so complicated than anything. Haven't bought a 2012 ticket yet because I have no clue what's up with the GSTL. And as this shows, I should better make sure that I do before I buy I guess. That's a terrible analogy, since GOM has plastered news about the new format all over their site since October. To try and fit your analogy, it'd be more like the car dealership having huge banners hanging everywhere saying "NEW CAR DESIGN: HOVER CARS" with the sub caption "No more wheels" and brochures readily available. Why would you still go and buy a hover car expecting it to have wheels? "I didn't look at the banners or brochures when I walked into the dealership because I liked last year's model" isn't really a valid argument. It's also silly to suggest GOM plaster the information in even more places on their site than they already have; if you didn't see it as is, you wouldn't have seen it no matter how many more places it was displayed. New format isn't confusing at all. You don't have a "2011 ticket", since there weren't year-long tickets for 2011; you do have a GSL November ticket, which GOM announced back in October would not have Up&Down matches due to the switch to the new 2012 format. The graphic compares the standard 2011 GSL format to the new 2012 GSL format, while GSL November had a unique hybrid-ish format that compared more closely to the 2012 format (all of which is explained in GOM announcements), so it can be considered an outlier. edit: I bought the yearly 2012 premium ticket under the assumption that GSTL will end up being separate, based on the little table that GOM has provided. If it ends up getting included in my premium ticket, then that's just a bonus to me. a good analogy would be a new car, coming as a direct sequel to a previous one. the new deal not including 30% of the car and that being stated in fine printing. Except, again, it's not fine print. GOM announced all over the place, including on Team Liquid, the changes to GSL November prior to the tournament's start. I guess this is one of those "you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink" scenarios. GOM can shove the information in your face as much as it wants, but it can't make you read it. Except they didn't shove it. They put it in few words in the middle of the wall of text and also made the picture about new format without clearly showing up/down are part of next season. And all this while knowing that up/down up until that moment were part of current season. Not to mention this change itself is stupid. If I figured it out back then I would have complained then about it. Code A is now only to find out 12 new/old Code S members. And Up/down is to find out 10 more new/old Code S members. By what logic is one of those part of one season and one part of next?! It was a featured item on GOM's homepage at the time, it was featured on the GOMnibus announcement box, shown on many pages of the site, covered by sites such as TL, etc. Explain to me how they could have done better. I really can't understand how you're confused by the 2012 GSL format. I recommend you actually read it, since your complaints imply you didn't do so before (otherwise you would have known about these changes back in October). Why do I need to explain myself again? Just read what I already written (and others). There is nothing more to add here.
Your whole argument is that you saw GOM plaster the new format announcement all over the place and didn't actually bother reading it, and therefore it's somehow GOM's fault. Forgive me for having no sympathy.
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On December 20 2011 21:22 stormfoxSC wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2011 21:12 -Archangel- wrote:On December 20 2011 21:09 stormfoxSC wrote:On December 20 2011 20:51 -Archangel- wrote:On December 20 2011 20:41 stormfoxSC wrote:On December 20 2011 20:30 Soma.bokforlag wrote:the thing that is most confusing is the "UP AND DOWN MATCHES" section under videos and the text "context coming soon" and of course the graphics. On December 20 2011 20:02 stormfoxSC wrote:On December 20 2011 19:37 eloist wrote:On December 20 2011 19:27 stormfoxSC wrote:On December 20 2011 19:23 eloist wrote:
[quote]
I bought a 2011 ticket, didn't care about 2012 yet. If you think this is all good and kosher, fine. No need to be this hostile about it by calling me an idiot. I never used the word "idiot", let alone call you anything. Please stop being overdramatic and fallacious, both toward myself and toward GOM. You're the one that blindly purchased a product without reading what you got out of it when GOM announced changes had been made. That's on you entirely. Yeah I bought the ticket blindly because I am a returning customer as I said. I don't explicitly go to make sure that the 2012 model of my car still comes with wheels when I go buy it because I liked the previous model. Gom makes me confirm that I am aware of bandwidth issues every single time I go buy a ticket. No reason for them not do this for these changes. Plus, the new format is still confusing. If you go to http://www.gomtv.net/2012gsls1/ , it still shows up and down matches in the 2011 format. I bought a 2011 ticket, so what gives? I am not even mad, watching the free stream as I am typing this. More annoyed that this is getting so complicated than anything. Haven't bought a 2012 ticket yet because I have no clue what's up with the GSTL. And as this shows, I should better make sure that I do before I buy I guess. That's a terrible analogy, since GOM has plastered news about the new format all over their site since October. To try and fit your analogy, it'd be more like the car dealership having huge banners hanging everywhere saying "NEW CAR DESIGN: HOVER CARS" with the sub caption "No more wheels" and brochures readily available. Why would you still go and buy a hover car expecting it to have wheels? "I didn't look at the banners or brochures when I walked into the dealership because I liked last year's model" isn't really a valid argument. It's also silly to suggest GOM plaster the information in even more places on their site than they already have; if you didn't see it as is, you wouldn't have seen it no matter how many more places it was displayed. New format isn't confusing at all. You don't have a "2011 ticket", since there weren't year-long tickets for 2011; you do have a GSL November ticket, which GOM announced back in October would not have Up&Down matches due to the switch to the new 2012 format. The graphic compares the standard 2011 GSL format to the new 2012 GSL format, while GSL November had a unique hybrid-ish format that compared more closely to the 2012 format (all of which is explained in GOM announcements), so it can be considered an outlier. edit: I bought the yearly 2012 premium ticket under the assumption that GSTL will end up being separate, based on the little table that GOM has provided. If it ends up getting included in my premium ticket, then that's just a bonus to me. a good analogy would be a new car, coming as a direct sequel to a previous one. the new deal not including 30% of the car and that being stated in fine printing. Except, again, it's not fine print. GOM announced all over the place, including on Team Liquid, the changes to GSL November prior to the tournament's start. I guess this is one of those "you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink" scenarios. GOM can shove the information in your face as much as it wants, but it can't make you read it. Except they didn't shove it. They put it in few words in the middle of the wall of text and also made the picture about new format without clearly showing up/down are part of next season. And all this while knowing that up/down up until that moment were part of current season. Not to mention this change itself is stupid. If I figured it out back then I would have complained then about it. Code A is now only to find out 12 new/old Code S members. And Up/down is to find out 10 more new/old Code S members. By what logic is one of those part of one season and one part of next?! It was a featured item on GOM's homepage at the time, it was featured on the GOMnibus announcement box, shown on many pages of the site, covered by sites such as TL, etc. Explain to me how they could have done better. I really can't understand how you're confused by the 2012 GSL format. I recommend you actually read it, since your complaints imply you didn't do so before (otherwise you would have known about these changes back in October). Why do I need to explain myself again? Just read what I already written (and others). There is nothing more to add here. Your whole argument is that you saw GOM plaster the new format announcement all over the place and didn't actually bother reading it, and therefore it's somehow GOM's fault. Forgive me for having no sympathy.
I did read the format, but it was not apparent to me that the up/down matches was not part of the GSL November ticket, and it's pretty strange since every other tournament will have up/down matches?
I bought the GSL 2012 ticket, so there are no problems for me, but I think GomTV should give the up down matches playing now in december 2011 to the buyers of the GSL Nov ticket.
(I am talking about the VODS which are the reasons I am buying the tickets, my employer wouldn't be too impressed if I used 4 hours of each workday watching GSL.)
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On December 20 2011 17:57 -Archangel- wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2011 17:12 figq wrote:From OP: On December 20 2011 04:05 Soma.bokforlag wrote:edit: seems there had been a post in the forums on goms webpage about this, so i was wrong On December 20 2011 04:47 Hibahihi wrote:It seems like this week up and down is part of the next season in 2012. http://www.gomtv.net/forum/view.gom?topicid=208740&cid=0&kind=8Up&Down Matches
A total of 30 players will compete for 10 spots in Code S. These players consist of 16 players who lost in the Code A Ro 32, 12 players who lost in the Code A Ro24 and 2 seeded players.
5 groups of 6 people will be formed. All players in a group play each other. The Top 2 of each group will advance to Code S, the rest will be Code A for next season. For the 2012 series the season now always starts with the Up&Down matches, the first season of 2012 will therefore begin in late December of 2011 with the first batch of Up&Down matches. i feel tricked though.. but i guess this is to be expected You shouldn't feel tricked. There's also the official GSL November Announcement: http://www.gomtv.net/2011gslsponsors7/news/66481It clarifies that the format will be changed significantly starting from November ("completely revamped format"). From this point on, any expectation based on how the format was in previous seasons should be abandoned and further info to be expected and sought, as posted there. Lol, you link says nothing about changes to ticket system. A ticket is for a season - what more do you need to know about the ticket? o_O The link announces revamped format of the season. That may involve fewer games televised and whatnot.
If anything I would only protest that the same price now applied to fewer televised matches. I counted them, and in October they were 116, while in November 100 (counting 2 cancelled of CoCa's). But even this isn't a huge difference, and in the new year the format will be full again.
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EPT
