• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 05:58
CEST 11:58
KST 18:58
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Season 1 - Final Week6[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall15HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)16Code S RO4 & Finals Preview: herO, Rogue, Classic, GuMiho0
Community News
Esports World Cup 2025 - Brackets Revealed14Weekly Cups (July 7-13): Classic continues to roll8Team TLMC #5 - Submission extension3Firefly given lifetime ban by ESIC following match-fixing investigation17$25,000 Streamerzone StarCraft Pro Series announced7
StarCraft 2
General
RSL Revival patreon money discussion thread Who will win EWC 2025? Server Blocker Weekly Cups (July 7-13): Classic continues to roll The GOAT ranking of GOAT rankings
Tourneys
FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series $5,100+ SEL Season 2 Championship (SC: Evo) WardiTV Mondays
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 482 Wheel of Misfortune Mutation # 481 Fear and Lava Mutation # 480 Moths to the Flame Mutation # 479 Worn Out Welcome
Brood War
General
Flash Announces (and Retracts) Hiatus From ASL BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ [ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall BW General Discussion Help: rep cant save
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues Cosmonarchy Pro Showmatches CSL Xiamen International Invitational [BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers I am doing this better than progamers do.
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread CCLP - Command & Conquer League Project The PlayStation 5
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative Summer Games Done Quick 2025!
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club! Maru Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion NHL Playoffs 2024
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Ping To Win? Pings And Their…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 722 users

GSL Nov Up and Down? - Page 9

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 7 8 9 10 Next All
eScaper-tsunami
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Canada313 Posts
December 20 2011 23:57 GMT
#161
Just curious about the OP's attitude... When did GOM ever promise up and down games to be included in November Ticket? You made that assumption even though it was clearly stated it won't be included, decided to have the expectation and then came disappointment....
Anyway GOM never lied/tricked/mocked/deceived you, click on the schedule under GSL November or link below:
http://www.gomtv.net/schedule/index.gom?year=2011&month=10&date=27&leagueid=25301
Clearly says, 11.10~12.07 and schedule was given to you before hand. Should pay attention and read more carefully next time.
RuhRoh is my herO
Nighthawks28
Profile Joined June 2011
United States232 Posts
December 21 2011 03:33 GMT
#162
On December 21 2011 08:54 Assirra wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 21 2011 07:04 Nighthawks28 wrote:
It was dumb that the detailed info wasn't linked in the announcement section. It was in the forum section, in which most people don't read the gom forums.

I don't get this kind of excuses.
It's like being mad you never got a invitation to something because it was send in a letter and not directly over the phone.
The forums are there for a reason, if you choose to ignore whose fault is it exactly?


That's a terrible comparison lol. And it's completely normal for people to not read the forum sections of those types of sites b/c they expect the major information would have already been in the announcement section. Majority of people usually just visit the main SC2 forums, which are TL and reddit. I read the MLG news section but never the MLG forums (if MLG altered their method of gold passes, I expect that they post it on their news section too and not simply hidden in their forums or they put the changes at the payment section of the passes). I rarely visit the battle.net forums but I do visit the main SC2 page to see announcements. And I do look at the gom announcement section but not the gom forums.

Gom should've linked the format details in their announcement section of GSL Nov (they later linked it when they made the GSL 2012 season 1 section not too long ago).

I don't think it's a big deal but I do believe they should have attempted to make it more clear to people since everyone is use to having up/down w/ their tickets (or they should've had up/down w/ GSL Nov and GSL 2012 season 1 tickets). You can tell that many people were confused about not having the up/down in their GSL Nov ticket. Next to the giant image of GSL Nov format on the league page (which shows up/down matches), they could've put *GSL Nov ticket does not actually include Up/Down matches.

Again, I don't think it's a big deal. I didn't even buy it. My friend did though and he was quite confused about not having up/down.
snowbird
Profile Blog Joined October 2005
Germany2044 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-21 11:06:08
December 21 2011 11:03 GMT
#163
Good news:

Dear GOMTV.net users,

the GSL format has been completely revamped for our 2012 series. It now runs for over 8 weeks and includes almost double the amount of possible sets.
In line with this change, the Up&Down matches have been moved to the beginning of the season. Therefore GSL Season 1 will be beginning on December 19th with the Up&Down matches. These matches are not part of GSL November.

We have announced this change at the beginning of GSL November in late October in this thread: http://www.gomtv.net/forum/view.gom?topicid=208740&cid=0&kind=8
The original post has been edited as new information regarding the format have been confirmed and released in increments, the information that the Up&Down matches will not be part of GSL November has however always been there.

We have however noticed that, while the information was available in our announcement forum, many users were unaware of this change and assumed that the Up&Down matches were a part of GSL November as has been the case for previous seasons. It was not our intention to mislead our users and we have therefore decided to give GSL November ticket holders access to the 2012 GSL Season 1 Up&Down matches. GSL November ticket holders will be able to watch the Up&Down VODs at the GSL November videos page soon: http://www.gomtv.net/2011gslsponsors7/vod/?order=&ltype=64&stype=

Meanwhile everyone may enjoy the Up&Down matches live stream for free in HQ until Friday 23rd as a little teaser for our first round of Code S of the new season starting in early January!

Thank you and happy holidays!
GOMTV.net


Original post: http://www.gomtv.net/forum/view.gom?topicid=213972&cid=0&kind=8
@riotsnowbird
snowbird
Profile Blog Joined October 2005
Germany2044 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-21 11:07:14
December 21 2011 11:03 GMT
#164
Please note that the Up&Down content will not be available right away, because some things have to be sorted out, it will be available soon however!
@riotsnowbird
MrCon
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
France29748 Posts
December 21 2011 12:06 GMT
#165
Good move !
I understand not including the und in the November ticket was normal considering the format change, but very good decision still.
GOM delivers again thanks <3
nomel
Profile Joined September 2010
115 Posts
December 21 2011 12:24 GMT
#166
I have not read through the whole thread, but here is my opinion on the issue.

I posted my disappointment on the GSL forum also. I have bought tickets for nearly every season so far. I cannot watch matches live, so the ticket is only for VODs. Offering e.g. free HQ Live has no value for me.

The graphic schedule was misleading (as linked in the first post), as it did not mention the timing of the Up & Down matches. But the timing was mentioned in text, something I skipped due to habit. I assumed season ticket content would remain the same. In the end, I guess, my dissatisfaction would have been completely my own fault. However, if GomTV grants me access to the 2012 Up & Down VODs with my November ticket, then I am certainly satisfied.

The usual response when a GomTV customer threatens to stop buying tickets (on the GomTV forum), due to what the customer perceives as unfair treatment, is something along the lines of "lol who cares? bye bye." (I'm not good at parodying the stereotypical, ignorant forum response) This is the first time I considered not buying the next season's ticket. But, give me the VOD access and I remain a happy enough customer, and I will continue to buy season tickets.

Keep the existing customer happy and he/she will most likely return. Usually easier than to attract a new customer. Obviously a happy customer is also excellent advertisement. Many of my friends bought tickets because of me, as I spoke so highly of the GSL.
MrCon
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
France29748 Posts
December 21 2011 12:36 GMT
#167
On December 21 2011 21:24 nomel wrote:
I have not read through the whole thread, but here is my opinion on the issue.

I posted my disappointment on the GSL forum also. I have bought tickets for nearly every season so far. I cannot watch matches live, so the ticket is only for VODs. Offering e.g. free HQ Live has no value for me.

The graphic schedule was misleading (as linked in the first post), as it did not mention the timing of the Up & Down matches. But the timing was mentioned in text, something I skipped due to habit. I assumed season ticket content would remain the same. In the end, I guess, my dissatisfaction would have been completely my own fault. However, if GomTV grants me access to the 2012 Up & Down VODs with my November ticket, then I am certainly satisfied.

The usual response when a GomTV customer threatens to stop buying tickets (on the GomTV forum), due to what the customer perceives as unfair treatment, is something along the lines of "lol who cares? bye bye." (I'm not good at parodying the stereotypical, ignorant forum response) This is the first time I considered not buying the next season's ticket. But, give me the VOD access and I remain a happy enough customer, and I will continue to buy season tickets.

Keep the existing customer happy and he/she will most likely return. Usually easier than to attract a new customer. Obviously a happy customer is also excellent advertisement. Many of my friends bought tickets because of me, as I spoke so highly of the GSL.

Read 2 posts above, GOM announced that they'll offer the up and downs to the November ticket holders
-Archangel-
Profile Joined May 2010
Croatia7457 Posts
December 21 2011 12:39 GMT
#168
Thank you snowbird and GOMTv. You just got me back as a customer and I will gladly buy the January season ticket as I was planning before all this happened

I also hope your future announcements (and more importantly the graphic presentations) will be more clear for us lazy people :D. Also don't put information about format changes and changes to what we get for our money into same text.
The current announcement would have worked well if the graphic said Next season above the up/down part and if the changes to ticket content was put as a seperate part of the announcement below.
nomel
Profile Joined September 2010
115 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-21 12:52:15
December 21 2011 12:47 GMT
#169
On December 21 2011 21:36 MrCon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 21 2011 21:24 nomel wrote:
I have not read through the whole thread, but here is my opinion on the issue.

I posted my disappointment on the GSL forum also. I have bought tickets for nearly every season so far. I cannot watch matches live, so the ticket is only for VODs. Offering e.g. free HQ Live has no value for me.

The graphic schedule was misleading (as linked in the first post), as it did not mention the timing of the Up & Down matches. But the timing was mentioned in text, something I skipped due to habit. I assumed season ticket content would remain the same. In the end, I guess, my dissatisfaction would have been completely my own fault. However, if GomTV grants me access to the 2012 Up & Down VODs with my November ticket, then I am certainly satisfied.

The usual response when a GomTV customer threatens to stop buying tickets (on the GomTV forum), due to what the customer perceives as unfair treatment, is something along the lines of "lol who cares? bye bye." (I'm not good at parodying the stereotypical, ignorant forum response) This is the first time I considered not buying the next season's ticket. But, give me the VOD access and I remain a happy enough customer, and I will continue to buy season tickets.

Keep the existing customer happy and he/she will most likely return. Usually easier than to attract a new customer. Obviously a happy customer is also excellent advertisement. Many of my friends bought tickets because of me, as I spoke so highly of the GSL.

Read 2 posts above, GOM announced that they'll offer the up and downs to the November ticket holders


Thank you. Even though I had not read through the whole thread, I did read snowbird's post I'm happy GomTV made this decision, and that's why I decided to respond to the thread. It's not fair to only react when you're unhappy, but sometimes you should also express your appreciation
MrCon
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
France29748 Posts
December 21 2011 12:57 GMT
#170
On December 21 2011 21:47 nomel wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 21 2011 21:36 MrCon wrote:
On December 21 2011 21:24 nomel wrote:
I have not read through the whole thread, but here is my opinion on the issue.

I posted my disappointment on the GSL forum also. I have bought tickets for nearly every season so far. I cannot watch matches live, so the ticket is only for VODs. Offering e.g. free HQ Live has no value for me.

The graphic schedule was misleading (as linked in the first post), as it did not mention the timing of the Up & Down matches. But the timing was mentioned in text, something I skipped due to habit. I assumed season ticket content would remain the same. In the end, I guess, my dissatisfaction would have been completely my own fault. However, if GomTV grants me access to the 2012 Up & Down VODs with my November ticket, then I am certainly satisfied.

The usual response when a GomTV customer threatens to stop buying tickets (on the GomTV forum), due to what the customer perceives as unfair treatment, is something along the lines of "lol who cares? bye bye." (I'm not good at parodying the stereotypical, ignorant forum response) This is the first time I considered not buying the next season's ticket. But, give me the VOD access and I remain a happy enough customer, and I will continue to buy season tickets.

Keep the existing customer happy and he/she will most likely return. Usually easier than to attract a new customer. Obviously a happy customer is also excellent advertisement. Many of my friends bought tickets because of me, as I spoke so highly of the GSL.

Read 2 posts above, GOM announced that they'll offer the up and downs to the November ticket holders


Thank you. Even though I had not read through the whole thread, I did read snowbird's post I'm happy GomTV made this decision, and that's why I decided to respond to the thread. It's not fair to only react when you're unhappy, but sometimes you should also express your appreciation

Oops sorry I mis-interpreted your post.
Goibon
Profile Joined May 2010
New Zealand8185 Posts
December 21 2011 13:02 GMT
#171
Good job GOM. I approve ^_^
Leenock =^_^= Ryung =^_^= Parting =^_^= herO =^_^= Guilty
Fermats_last
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
England336 Posts
December 21 2011 13:15 GMT
#172
Aaah, so happy for this
The road goes ever ever on, down from the door where it began
Soma.bokforlag
Profile Joined February 2011
Sweden448 Posts
December 21 2011 13:54 GMT
#173
great!! editing op
shoshido
Profile Joined December 2011
6 Posts
December 21 2011 17:54 GMT
#174
Thank you =)
I am relieved this whole thing is sorted out!
jinorazi
Profile Joined October 2004
Korea (South)4948 Posts
December 21 2011 18:44 GMT
#175
On December 21 2011 20:03 snowbird wrote:
Good news:

Show nested quote +
Dear GOMTV.net users,

the GSL format has been completely revamped for our 2012 series. It now runs for over 8 weeks and includes almost double the amount of possible sets.
In line with this change, the Up&Down matches have been moved to the beginning of the season. Therefore GSL Season 1 will be beginning on December 19th with the Up&Down matches. These matches are not part of GSL November.

We have announced this change at the beginning of GSL November in late October in this thread: http://www.gomtv.net/forum/view.gom?topicid=208740&cid=0&kind=8
The original post has been edited as new information regarding the format have been confirmed and released in increments, the information that the Up&Down matches will not be part of GSL November has however always been there.

We have however noticed that, while the information was available in our announcement forum, many users were unaware of this change and assumed that the Up&Down matches were a part of GSL November as has been the case for previous seasons. It was not our intention to mislead our users and we have therefore decided to give GSL November ticket holders access to the 2012 GSL Season 1 Up&Down matches. GSL November ticket holders will be able to watch the Up&Down VODs at the GSL November videos page soon: http://www.gomtv.net/2011gslsponsors7/vod/?order=&ltype=64&stype=

Meanwhile everyone may enjoy the Up&Down matches live stream for free in HQ until Friday 23rd as a little teaser for our first round of Code S of the new season starting in early January!

Thank you and happy holidays!
GOMTV.net


Original post: http://www.gomtv.net/forum/view.gom?topicid=213972&cid=0&kind=8


*gasp* did gom hear me? XD
anyways, thanks gom
age: 84 | location: california | sex: 잘함
iamcaustic
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada1509 Posts
December 21 2011 21:22 GMT
#176
GOM continuing to be awesome and bend over backwards to appease the mistakes of others. As I said:

On December 21 2011 05:25 stormfoxSC wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 21 2011 05:17 UndoneJin wrote:
On December 21 2011 05:09 stormfoxSC wrote:
On December 21 2011 04:58 UndoneJin wrote:
Should GOM make it available to both Nov and Jan passholders? Yes.

Will they? I don't know its certainly a possibility if enough people complain. The way they went about this was certainly not entirely honest imho.

Should they? No, they made it clear in October that there would be no Up&Down matches for GSL November. Might they do it anyway? Quite possibly, as GOM's well known for bending over backwards to make their customer base happy.


I knew Up & Downs weren't included, but I think it would be nice of them to just include U&D for both passholders because clearly, not everyone else knew (I bought Jan. already).

Oh yeah, for sure it would be nice of GOM to do so, and wouldn't be surprised if they did given their amazing track record. I'm just saying they don't really have any obligation.
Twitter: @iamcaustic
shoshido
Profile Joined December 2011
6 Posts
December 21 2011 23:36 GMT
#177
On December 22 2011 06:22 stormfoxSC wrote:
GOM continuing to be awesome and bend over backwards to appease the mistakes of others. As I said:

Show nested quote +
On December 21 2011 05:25 stormfoxSC wrote:
On December 21 2011 05:17 UndoneJin wrote:
On December 21 2011 05:09 stormfoxSC wrote:
On December 21 2011 04:58 UndoneJin wrote:
Should GOM make it available to both Nov and Jan passholders? Yes.

Will they? I don't know its certainly a possibility if enough people complain. The way they went about this was certainly not entirely honest imho.

Should they? No, they made it clear in October that there would be no Up&Down matches for GSL November. Might they do it anyway? Quite possibly, as GOM's well known for bending over backwards to make their customer base happy.


I knew Up & Downs weren't included, but I think it would be nice of them to just include U&D for both passholders because clearly, not everyone else knew (I bought Jan. already).

Oh yeah, for sure it would be nice of GOM to do so, and wouldn't be surprised if they did given their amazing track record. I'm just saying they don't really have any obligation.


The majority have spoken..and were heard
Takezou
Profile Joined October 2010
United States320 Posts
December 21 2011 23:40 GMT
#178
On December 22 2011 06:22 stormfoxSC wrote:
GOM continuing to be awesome and bend over backwards to appease the mistakes of others. As I said:

Show nested quote +
On December 21 2011 05:25 stormfoxSC wrote:
On December 21 2011 05:17 UndoneJin wrote:
On December 21 2011 05:09 stormfoxSC wrote:
On December 21 2011 04:58 UndoneJin wrote:
Should GOM make it available to both Nov and Jan passholders? Yes.

Will they? I don't know its certainly a possibility if enough people complain. The way they went about this was certainly not entirely honest imho.

Should they? No, they made it clear in October that there would be no Up&Down matches for GSL November. Might they do it anyway? Quite possibly, as GOM's well known for bending over backwards to make their customer base happy.


I knew Up & Downs weren't included, but I think it would be nice of them to just include U&D for both passholders because clearly, not everyone else knew (I bought Jan. already).

Oh yeah, for sure it would be nice of GOM to do so, and wouldn't be surprised if they did given their amazing track record. I'm just saying they don't really have any obligation.


Oh please get over yourself.
Witten
Profile Joined January 2011
United States2094 Posts
December 21 2011 23:52 GMT
#179
And GOM fixes it. Awesome!
Brood War Forever / NA's premiere Shadow Shaman player / Courier Collector / Bot Game Champion / Highly amateur Mystical Ninja Goemon Speedrunner
blackbrrd
Profile Joined September 2010
Norway477 Posts
December 22 2011 21:32 GMT
#180
Very nice by Gomtv
Prev 1 7 8 9 10 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 2h 2m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Nina 249
StarCraft: Brood War
Stork 501
Pusan 414
Larva 401
firebathero 310
Leta 228
Rush 176
Dewaltoss 168
TY 167
ToSsGirL 90
Sharp 79
[ Show more ]
Aegong 71
Light 57
zelot 53
Backho 28
Sacsri 17
ajuk12(nOOB) 16
Shinee 13
JulyZerg 9
Dota 2
Gorgc2928
XcaliburYe360
Fuzer 202
League of Legends
JimRising 384
Counter-Strike
shoxiejesuss487
Super Smash Bros
Westballz32
Other Games
summit1g8694
ceh9500
SortOf138
DeMusliM124
Happy33
Trikslyr26
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick2543
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 11 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Stunt652
Upcoming Events
Epic.LAN
2h 2m
Big Brain Bouts
6h 2m
sebesdes vs SpeCial
Harstem vs YoungYakov
GgMaChine vs uThermal
CranKy Ducklings
1d
Epic.LAN
1d 2h
CSO Contender
1d 7h
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
1d 8h
Bonyth vs Sziky
Dewalt vs Hawk
Hawk vs QiaoGege
Sziky vs Dewalt
Mihu vs Bonyth
Zhanhun vs QiaoGege
QiaoGege vs Fengzi
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
Online Event
2 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
2 days
Bonyth vs Zhanhun
Dewalt vs Mihu
Hawk vs Sziky
Sziky vs QiaoGege
Mihu vs Hawk
Zhanhun vs Dewalt
Fengzi vs Bonyth
Esports World Cup
4 days
ByuN vs Astrea
Lambo vs HeRoMaRinE
Clem vs TBD
Solar vs Zoun
SHIN vs Reynor
Maru vs TriGGeR
herO vs Lancer
Cure vs ShoWTimE
[ Show More ]
Esports World Cup
5 days
Esports World Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

JPL Season 2
RSL Revival: Season 1
Murky Cup #2

Ongoing

BSL 2v2 Season 3
Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
BSL20 Non-Korean Championship
CSL Xiamen Invitational
CSL Xiamen Invitational: ShowMatche
Championship of Russia 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25

Upcoming

2025 ACS Season 2
CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
BSL Season 21
K-Championship
RSL Revival: Season 2
SEL Season 2 Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
FEL Cracov 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
Underdog Cup #2
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.