GOMTV Announcement regarding NaNiWa - Page 107

On December 17 2011 07:28 Almtom wrote:
I think boycotting GSL is the only way viewers can show their dislike for the horrible decisions and lies spread by GOM TV.

On December 17 2011 06:58 farnham wrote:


dont act like such behavior would be tolerated in the west

the measures gom took were very generous.

they could have straight up refused to deal with naniwa in the future.

also boycotting gom is also indirectly punishing players like nestea, mvp, mma etc. that had nothing to do with this.

On December 17 2011 07:36 Achaia wrote:


Hmm, I wonder how one would show a dislike to players making stupid decisions like Naniwa? Who cares if Naniwa was officially offered a Code S spot initially or not? The fact is that the punishment they gave Naniwa is a slap on the wrist at best. All of these people who are so ready to boycott the GSL because someone got punished for being an asshole just frustrate the hell out of me.

On December 17 2011 07:36 Bogeyman wrote:

I'm not acting like that... am I? Or what are you referring to? You mean Naniwa's actions? I'm not saying GOM can't justify what they did, and I'm not saying MLG couldn't justify doing something similar. MLG probably wouldn't though, and they're wise to do so. There have been several occasions where MLG had every right to punish their players, but they haven't. GOM however aren't in the same situation as MLG, and so that is one reason why they acted differently.

Boycotting will always indirectly punish others who you do not intend to punish. Are you trying to argue that boycotting altogether is never acceptable? I would like to hear you try backing that up.

On December 17 2011 07:44 farnham wrote:

No but in this situation GSL has a korean monopoly (due to the stupidity of kespa) so for many korean players (except for those that are popular enough to go to foreign events) the success of the GSL correlates to the existence their job market

On December 17 2011 07:51 Bogeyman wrote:

Right, and so long as GOM aren't complete tools I reckon they can handle a boycott without them going bankrupt, so the players will still be able to play and make a living. Hopefully they're able to address this issue before a boycott really affects them, and then no actual harm is done. But it lies in their hands to do so, and my responsibility along with other boycotters is to make sure we recognize when GOM addresses this and continue paying for their services.

Additionally, the concept of group versus self is highly polarized between Western and East Asian
cultures. East Asian cultures typically value the concept of the greater good and the group over that of
the individual, which might explain their actions which clearly prioritize the development and
protection of eSports and GOMTV (the "group") over the independent rights of Naniwa (the "self" or
the individual)

On December 17 2011 07:58 Lars_Brun wrote:
Following is quoted from ianchoe's post http://bit.ly/vr681F



I really don't think this is accurate especially in the case of a Swedish person vs. a Korean person. Sweden is probably the most socialist country in the western world, with considarable higher taxes than South Korea and a long tradition of extensive welfare programs, free healthcare, free education etc.

I don't know much about Korean culture or politics, but I would guess that the US has had a big influence on SK seeing as how their country was created through a proxy war by capitalism vs. communism. If someone who is knowledgeable would shed some light on the truth of that I'd b e happy to hear it..

On December 17 2011 07:36 Achaia wrote:


Hmm, I wonder how one would show a dislike to players making stupid decisions like Naniwa? Who cares if Naniwa was officially offered a Code S spot initially or not? The fact is that the punishment they gave Naniwa is a slap on the wrist at best. All of these people who are so ready to boycott the GSL because someone got punished for being an asshole just frustrate the hell out of me.

On December 17 2011 08:04 LION` wrote:


The point is that it could have been any other fucking player getting scammed right now.

On December 17 2011 06:53 Bogeyman wrote:


Hey Ian, thanks for a very thorough response to this whole controversy. I really appreciate you taking your time to calm both sides of the argument with reason. I do however have some things I would like to point out, and as you seem to be a very reasonable guy (and I'm fairly certain I am as well), please be open-minded to what I have to say.

In the hypothetical situation that you present you don't consider the possibility of a minor yet important alteration of your version. What makes changing the GSL format as has been done incompatible with letting MLG Providence continue to be affected by the Exchange Program deal? Nothing suggests that there could be a problem. The only practical difference that the first GSL tournament of 2012 now has one more seeded spot. In no way does this mean that the first of the two seeds cannot be awarded as was intended. Without GOM saying this was the case, who would have thought it would be a problem in the first place? This observation may not be backed up with a print screen or a link (as, if it's true, GOM changed it already), but simply inject into your hypothesis the possibility of GOM intending to hand out the first Code S seed for 2012 as was determined in their agreement with MLG, and let the second seed be handed out to whomever they thought worthy. The staff at GOM are not stupid, and this arrangement requires no thought whatsoever as to how they would need to cover up the fact that MLG has less status in esports or whatever. Then once the unfortunate incident of Naniwa vs Nestea happens, and they at first release statements through various sources (though I suppose only Mr. Chae should be considered truly valid) that Naniwa has been effectively banned. Someone shortly thereafter points out that according to the new format of 2012 Naniwa doesn't necessarily have to be considered as already qualified for a Code S seed, so they don't have to ban him if they instead simply revoke his candidacy for the Code S seed as per the new format which wouldn't seem as harsh to the foreign community who at this point are in an outrage, and GOM needs to secure their good reputation and good relations with the foreign community. It's even clearly stated in their agreement with MLG that GOM has every right to change what tournament Naniwa gains entry in, so they're not even breaking any rules even at this point.
In this situation, with the stress growing and the flow of angry posts and emails growing by every minute, that is when they make their mistake. When they determined the new format for 2012 there was no stress, no pressure, and they could make a rational decision. Why would they, at that point, make a decision which also involved an active deception so that MLG would still look good? Whether you believe this to be what actually happened or not, do you at least recognize that this hypothesis is as likely if not more likely than what you described?
Anyway, what I describe (which I by no means hold as truth btw) may be even more forgiving than what you described. In your version they were consciously deceiving people, if for the betterment of mankind (and by this I'm implying that perhaps sometimes you're holding them in too high regard. They're a corporation that survives by making money. I'll admit that the staff may still mean very well, but I won't assume it), whereas in my version they were under a lot of stress and pressure, and much like Naniwa did in a similar situation, they made a huge mistake in part because they didn't understand the culture they were dealing with.

This one might sound far-fetched, but the argument that we need to cut GOM some slack because of their different view of self, and their emphasis on group over individual, and that they're pretty much not acquainted with the concept of being "entitled" to something, can be turned around completely. GOM needs to understand that this outrage from the foreign community in part stems from the fact that we don't share the Korean culture and their views of self, group over individual and so on. GOM needs to understand that we may view Naniwa as entitled to his Code S seed. Whether this view is "correct" or not, is obviously very different depending on what culture you come from (and political background even). But the point is that it's equally true that we need to understand their view and that they need to understand our view (and by "our view", I'm not trying to represent the entire foreign community). Neither party stands above the other in this. Or maybe GOM has the advantage, as all this has occurred on Korean soil? I would argue that's a questionable reason in this day and age, as the event is international and everyone has an equal right to care and be involved; it's everyone's business.
So in short: the foreign community needs to calm down and try to understand why GOM would act like they have, whereas GOM needs to understand why many in the foreign community are upset, and once they understand (much like Naniwa now understands Korean culture better) it would be appropriate to if not apologize, then at least say they're sorry that they have offended our culture and state that as the GSL is meant to be a global tournament they will do their best in showing respect towards western culture in the future.
I want to reemphasize that of course your point is still valid: we need to try to understand how their culture has affected their decisions, but it does go both ways, even if neither side has an obligation to do so.

The third thing I would like to point out is that I contest your view that boycotting GSL is necessarily counter-productive. As I already said, much like Naniwa seems to have grown and matured in his realization of why GOM acted as they did and why Koreans in general were so appalled, GOM could grow and mature in their position as a leading global esports corporation if they realize that they need to consider fans belonging to western culture as well as their Korean fans. Maybe what has already happened is enough for them to realize this and adjust, but until they somehow address this issue directly I can't say that they have, and the only power I have to force them to realize this is to boycott them.

On December 17 2011 07:36 Achaia wrote:


Hmm, I wonder how one would show a dislike to players making stupid decisions like Naniwa? Who cares if Naniwa was officially offered a Code S spot initially or not? The fact is that the punishment they gave Naniwa is a slap on the wrist at best. All of these people who are so ready to boycott the GSL because someone got punished for being an asshole just frustrate the hell out of me.

On December 17 2011 07:58 Lars_Brun wrote:
Following is quoted from ianchoe's post http://bit.ly/vr681F



I really don't think this is accurate especially in the case of a Swedish person vs. a Korean person. Sweden is probably the most socialist country in the western world, with considarable higher taxes than South Korea and a long tradition of extensive welfare programs, free healthcare, free education etc.

I don't know much about Korean culture or politics, but I would guess that the US has had a big influence on SK seeing as how their country was created through a proxy war by capitalism vs. communism. If someone who is knowledgeable would shed some light on the truth of that I'd b e happy to hear it..

On December 17 2011 08:01 Trsjnica wrote:

Not sure that Sweden vs. Korea cultural debates are really that relevant to the discussion of this specific action, although it may be an interesting topic for another post.

Oh, and I think that many people would dispute that Korea was created through a proxy war. I mean, it was divided through a war, but Korean cultural and national history is a lot older than that.

On December 17 2011 08:22 McFeser wrote:
@Ianchoe @bogeyman
How can you guys possibly write 3000 words on a subject like this? Seriously, everyone who is treating this as such a big deal is overreacting it as much as GOM did.

On December 17 2011 08:25 Acasta wrote:
They seem to be bored; it's the end of the year and there is not much else to talk about^^

On December 17 2011 08:25 ianchoe wrote:


I type 110wpm and eSports is important to me. I don't think of it as an overreaction to express my point of view, and doing so without proper support or discussion is ignorant.

I could have just as easily typed "GOMTV and Naniwa are both alright so just chill," but that does nothing to add to the discussion at hand. I was just trying to be constructive, and I'm sorry if you didn't find my comments to be helpful or relevant.

ALSO THIS:



I finished finals a few days ago but I'm still in paper-mode haha.