GOMTV Announcement regarding NaNiWa - Page 108

On December 17 2011 08:25 ianchoe wrote:


I type 110wpm and eSports is important to me. I don't think of it as an overreaction to express my point of view, and doing so without proper support or discussion is ignorant.

I could have just as easily typed "GOMTV and Naniwa are both alright so just chill," but that does nothing to add to the discussion at hand. I was just trying to be constructive, and I'm sorry if you didn't find my comments to be helpful or relevant.

Ian

On December 17 2011 08:20 polycom wrote:
This is so wrong, Naniwa actually acted JUST LIKE a pro athelete would. Let me explain:

When the lakers secure 1st in the west and only have a few weeks of games left to close out the season, Kobe and other top players did not play the games... maybe just a few minutes to stay in the rhythm. But overall, if the game did not make a difference, they did not play.

It is GOMTV's fault for designing such a system where the games do not matter. Most pro atheletes play the game because they want to be the best, they do not play for the fans.. that's the reality of it all. To be a pro gamer is to be the best of the best, and naniwa has proven that time and time again. Being competitive myself, I'm saden that GOMTV has blamed Naniwa for their flawed tournament structure. Naniwa may be more emotional than other players, but thats what drives e-sports, raw emotional. Do you expect Kobe to play a regular game after he got knocked out of the playoffs? No.. that would be INSANE!

This game is mentally taxing. If you expect a pro gamer to play a game although they are already knocked out, then expect a shitty 6 pool, 4 gate, or 2 rax. I'm GLAD that naniwa cut the bullshit formality and made it less painful to watch.

On December 17 2011 08:04 LION` wrote:


The point is that it could have been any other fucking player getting scammed right now.

On December 17 2011 08:34 polycom wrote:



Well atleast be concise and straight to the point. 99.9% of people wont read your post because of the length/bloat. I bet you could have said the same thing in a concise paragraph. Only my opinion.

On December 17 2011 08:34 McFeser wrote:

Editing is an important skill. Saying more with less is the hallmark of a good writer which is why the typical article that you read is not more than 1500 words. However, I shouldn't criticize you as I did not read either of your responses and if I had to guess, I would say that most people would not read that much text.

I'm sorry if I am coming off as dick, but seriously guys you don't have to write that much in response to one player right clicking their probes to an opponent's base.

On December 17 2011 08:34 farnham wrote:
naniwa could have just decided not to participate knowing the format (and the format was known well before they started blizzard cup) and the fact that there was a chance that he would have to play even if there was no financial adventage.

naniwa took the risk when he entered the tournament and the worst case scenario happened. still he had to swallow the bitter pill as he was contractually obligated to play the game..

On December 17 2011 08:01 Trsjnica wrote:

Not sure that Sweden vs. Korea cultural debates are really that relevant to the discussion of this specific action, although it may be an interesting topic for another post.

Oh, and I think that many people would dispute that Korea was created through a proxy war. I mean, it was divided through a war, but Korean cultural and national history is a lot older than that.

On December 17 2011 08:44 Azz wrote:
This topic will highlight a different point of view and aim to challenge ESPORT fans over questionable issues and view them under a different light. This topics aim is to consider 'all possibilities' and open your mind to the little things that do matter to some people.

This topic is purely speculation in regards to what I consider be be 'Less than Fair Play' when referring to Naniwa & GomTV. It also addresses the competitive nature between GOMTV and MLG over Starcraft 2 viewership.

On December 15 2011 06:33 GOMTV wrote:
There seems to be great confusion regarding an incident involving NaNiWa that took place on the second day of Blizzard Cup. We would like to clarify this matter and hereby announce our official stance towards the incident.


GOMTV announces a great confusion, but this may simply not be the case. Please do not be influenced by GOMTV's comments or responses as they may be simply untrue and attempt to take advantage of the community's good will.

As an organisation, when you announce a decision you provide reasoning behind the decision the moment it bcomes public. What you are seeing here, is a more calculated and knifing approach designed to:

Analyse the community's response before deciding upon an announcement which publicly benefits the current position of GOMTV which aims to caters for the majority of the community in a way in which GOM walks out the winner and community leader

Do not be fooled.
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Here is the reasons behind the process in which GOMTV 'REMOVES & REPLACES Naniwa':

A) Maintain GOMTV's 'presence or stature' of being the worldwide premier tournament.

Did anyone ever stop to wonder as to why the MLG & GSL transfer ever stopped? Something that benefits both organisations would not stop.. Step back for a moment and keep an open mind.

The majority of viewers GOMTV is aiming to attract is the worldwide market, however GOMTV did not think very strategically when they agreed to player transfers with MLG. If any of you have noticed the amount of viewers watching MLG & GOMTV, you will notice that MLG has only increased its viewership and GOMTV's viewership has declined. There are some legitimate reasons behind this:

1) By agreeing to the player transfer, MLG is able to take 'the very best korean players' and the 'very best foreigners' all at once. The barriers of playing in the United States are far less than the barriers in participating in GSL. This means that you will recieve a much greater and broader range of players worldwide competing, which in turn creates much greater value for the viewer. Additionally, the entire event is cast in ENGLISH! A popular language no doubt!

2) Once upon a time, GSL was 'THE TOURNAMENT'.. And why do you think this is? Very simply, the best of the best remained in Korea and this meant that to see the greatest game play, you would have to tune in to the GSL during an awkward time of day. This gave it 'prestige, desirability and a competitive advantage in having all the best players and talent delivering high quality starcraft 2 gaming'.

HOWEVER!

The market leaders are changing! Yes, MLG is now closer to the market leader in providing high quality value and entertainment for Esports Viewers. For some time now, MLG has been stealing marketshare of the starcraft 2 viewership numbers. Why watch 'all' the koreans when you can just watch the very best vs players who you know locally, directly or someone from your own region of the world? I can keep talking about this, but lets get down to business.

This move by GOMTV is a POWER BASED MOVE and has MOTIVES behind it. What this move is:

- A slap in the face to MLG, "We do not have to honour our agreement with you.." And this publicity helps us to achieve this.. It means less top koreans participating in your events and more focus on our events".

- Sends a message that GOTMV will not put up with Naniwa but MLG/other tournaments will, hence attempting to 'establish itself as the premier tournament or maintain higher status within the minds of its market' We are above dealing with conflict mentality.

- Cultural Discrimination: Both Idra and Sen have been affiliated with Korea for some time now, and Naniwa has not. Naniwa broke NO RULES, if GOMTV were not interested in playing this move to their advantage, they would simply modify the rules for future events. GOMTV is telling us all, that WHEN THEY FEEEEEL like it, they will disadvantage you. In many countries & regions around the world, the rules are what matter, and if the rules do not suffice, you change them.

Korean e-sports fans generally share this understanding of the term 'professional athlete’ or in this case 'progamer', and might be less likely to tolerate a deviation from these core values compared to overseas communities.



According to this quote, Naniwa is being discriminated against based upon 'Korean Values' rather than any legitimate issue. If Naniwa wants to probe rush, then its his strategic choice to do so. He even GGd, infact someone who just 'leaves the game' is more or less likely worse. Additionally, how about all those players who 'don't leave the game when its over'... What Naniwa did may be frowned upon, but it was clearly within his right to do what he did, and GOMTV is just using this 'legitimate match' to further there own agenda and discriminate against Naniwa.

Do not be fooled by GOM's true motives, they are an organisation and are out to profit in both the short term and the long term. It can be very easy to just go along and say 'I support GOM and back them 100%'. Yes they may support community interests, but this does not mean you should not consider all possibilities on the table, GOM will be adapting a strategy against MLG as a competitor in 2012, wait and see.

Player Rights have not been considered in this topic, and Naniwa would have a 'Strong Legal Standing' in regards to this incident should it go to court.

NaNiWa has however purposefully not tried his best and shown this in a disrespectful manner. This was not only disappointing for his opponent NesTea and the GSL, but also for the many fans who had anticipated a great match. This behavior does not match with the definition of a progamer as laid out in the paragraph above.


Once again, Naniwa is being discriminated against by Korean culture or Corporate power play. I QUOTE: 'as laid out in the paragraph above'. If it DOES NOT MATCH with your paragraph above, then please feel free to publicize this, rather than defining your own principles as you go along. Whatever suits your needs is your definition according to how you have handled this. I am deeply disappointed in GOM for the way it is acting.

Make no mistake that there is a strategic purpose behind each of GOM's responses, you just need to be aware of them.

On December 17 2011 09:03 Lars_Brun wrote:


Ofc I know that the war didn't create Korea, just the SK/NK divide. I just wondered how much SK has been influenced by US capitalism since then, to which ianchoe replied it had been heavily influenced.

But I agree cultural debate topic not really relevant to begin with. I just wanted to reply to ianchoe's statements about group v self and argue the relevance in that aspect of being from Sweden.

On December 17 2011 09:05 BeaSteR wrote:
I do not agree with you here GOM, sadly I will have to demand my money back for the ticket I bought. He rightfully won that spot by making second place in the MLG, this is clearly too harsh of a punishment.

On December 17 2011 08:09 ianchoe wrote:


Hey Bogeyman, thanks for your response. I definitely agree that there are other possible (and perhaps more probable) scenarios to explain the series of events that led up to and unfolded around the Naniwa v. Nestea match. Perhaps the way I worded things in my write-up suggested otherwise, but my only intent was to extrapolate one of many possible situations in which GOMTV is not the malicious tyrant that many people are making them out to be. If one possible situation in which GOMTV isn't the worst organization in the world can be reasonably explained or imagine, perhaps people wouldn't be quite so quick to point fingers in anger and more willing to discuss practical options for moving forward. I didn't really mean that the GSL would hypothetically take action in this way for the "betterment of mankind," but rather that they were doing so to preserve their own image on top of all the other considerations - if they were seen as an organization that would simply bully MLG at any time of their choosing, they would be seen in an extremely negative light, which incidentally is pretty much exactly what has happened here. Reading over what I wrote, I see that I didn't express that consideration very clearly. At the end of the day, I think that if this situation were to be an accurate or semi-accurate portrayal of what actually occurred, their decisions were most likely motivated by business. In this case, shitting on MLG would have been a bad business move, but if they were unwilling to compromise their 2012 GSL season structure, their deliberate deception with the hope that things would go smoothly would make a reasonable amount of sense (despite being in a moral grey area).

In addition to that, I agree that it is the responsibility of GOMTV to be just as cognizant of other cultures that may try to engage or interact with their league. Cutting them slack isn't necessarily the issue here; promoting a greater sense of understanding was my goal with this letter. Just as many community members do not understand the response from GOMTV, it is very possible that GOMTV does not understand the reason for the backlash they are receiving. This, of course, falls on the community to represent their point of view in a reasonable manner. All of this "fuck you GOM" "this is bullshit" "stop lying i have lost all respect for you" merely serves to put everyone on the back foot, defending what they did and becoming much more reluctant to give up ground on either side. I agree with you that the responsibility to attempt to better understand each other is on both sides of this situation. That's what I was trying to point out with my letter, but I think it might have appeared that I was speaking out more on GOMTV's behalf - this is probably because I felt like the opposing viewpoint was voiced much more widely (albeit with less balance and reason) in this thread.

To your final point, I agree that my contention that "boycotting GOMTV is counterproductive" may not ring true with everyone, particularly those discontent with GOMTV's actions or final decision. However, I find it difficult to support a movement that withholds viewership from what as arguably the most consistently competitive league in the world. GOMTV and Naniwa both have been given an opportunity to grow, and I believe that Naniwa has already taken steps to that end. GOMTV has been less forthcoming in this right, but an entire organization is much more difficult to reform than an individual. This is where we will have to agree to disagree; I will not be boycotting an organization that I believe to be ultimately good for the eSports industry as a whole.

In my opinion, doing such a thing to an organization that is primarily motivated by business will cause them to look for business elsewhere, as the market for eSports is still emerging and undefined. If certain pockets of international fans do not support GOMTV, then GOMTV will look elsewhere to find new sources of revenue. As eSports is still in its fledgling stages, the support of communities can shape organizations. I am afraid that a mass exodus of financial supporters from foreign countries will force GOMTV to make changes to further suit a less diverse but more financially supportive audience. I think that the continued financial support WITH the reasonable expression of displeasure from the foreign community is the key to pushing GOMTV to act.

As you've pointed out, GOMTV and the GSL is a Korean operation - despite being billed as a "Global" league, as it stands, the organization is still predominantly Korean. As the market is still expanding, the current group of supporters boycotting is not a deathblow to an organization like GOMTV that is securing a position in a growing market. This boycott may force GOMTV's hand, but perhaps not in the way that boycotters intend. If GOMTV realizes that the current way in which they want to run their tournaments is alienating a sector of the market (not the entire market but just a portion of a market that has a yet to be determined overall value), they may make even bigger changes in their direction to cater to the audiences and markets that they have already secured or can expect to secure in the future. GOMTV is aware that many other tournaments and leagues exist, and if it comes down to is, GOMTV and the GSL are not likely to adopt the customs of MLG or Dreamhack in an attempt to creep into their viewership or compete directly - GOMTV and the GSL have their own appeal (top level Korean professionals, teams, and the professional gaming culture associated with these parties). If boycotts are implemented, it would be a more potent business decision (although financially detrimental in the short term) to stay the course rather than twist to fit the demands of one group of protestors.

What I'm saying is that I think a more likely result of a boycott will be GOMTV searching elsewhere for viewers that will pay for a league with the appeal and structure that they've already established. We as the current subscribers have power and a voice, but I don't think that the most effective way to put it to use is a boycott. For GOMTV to remain profitable and efficient in the long run, they probably have to retain some form of autonomy. A boycott of this nature would succeed if the eSports viewership market were completely saturated and the product that GOMTV is marketing is already mature, because in that scenario, the financial withdrawal of the only available supporters would mean a collapse of GOMTV; however, in a growing market where GOMTV can just say "balls to this" and look for viewers and support elsewhere (and it does exist elsewhere, we can't kid ourselves on this one), I'm afraid that a boycott will send the wrong message and damage the GOMTV/viewer relationship even further than it already has been. My preference for dealing with this situation is to continue to support GOMTV but also express consistent and reasonable displeasure with actions or decisions that aren't in keeping with the goal of fostering a truly "global" Starcraft league. In this way, I would hope to put GOMTV in a position where there is more accountability (due to their large viewership) and a more civil platform for exchanging feedback and criticism. In a way, continuing to support and encourage GOMTV to improve now sets up a situation down the line where a boycott such as the one fans are describing becomes more potent and effective, given the development of a sustained dialogue and network/viewership relationship over many seasons.

Thanks again for your response! I really enjoyed reading what you had to say and look forward to corresponding with you more in the future (whether on this topic or otherwise).

Ian

On December 17 2011 04:37 farnham wrote:


i wasnt talking about the code s spot situation. I was talking about the fact that gom has the right to terminate the contractual relationship between them and naniwa due to the behavior naniwa showed. there is no need to have explicit rules for this as the applicable korean civil code already has rules for such situation.


On a side note, i dont think its a lie. i saw the format change on thisisgame months ago and was wondering about the meaning of the change from "MLG시드 (MLG Seeds)" to "후원사시드 (Sponsor Seeds)" just bad communication on both sides.

On December 17 2011 10:50 Kryptic.610 wrote:


Nope, GOMTvs twitter said they revoked nanis spot, before they deleted it to cover it up of course.