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Please make sure to read the statement from Naniwa that is linked in the full article before commenting. |
On December 10 2011 03:06 Zalithian wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2011 03:03 rotegirte wrote:On December 10 2011 02:49 Canucklehead wrote:On December 10 2011 02:22 FXOpen wrote:
I have just openly stated what the source has said, and confirmed it. Does that mean that there is now valuable information divulged?
I wouldnt doubt that the source is someone who is reliable and respectable...... I know ESFI well enough that they wouldnt publish such a comment without the source meaning something.
Its 1:20 am.. Nothing was done with convenience in my post. The fact remains that even if the source is anonymous, and you choose to believe what they say or not (minus the mental help crap), the subject at large has a proven history of being difficult to deal with.
I respect Naniwa as a person, but if this witch hunting jargon continues to go on e-sports is going to look like trash.
Naniwa is a professional player, his contract was bought by an organisation. The reason behind his sale is because complexity had an issue, and it was dealt with.
Naniwa's career is still in tact, he has the ability to prove the negative comments wrong in the future. WE should be focusing on that. Rather than turning this into a media 90210.
This goes hand in hand with a question news strait times asked me this morning. "Why should the mainstream media get involved in e-sports"... If they publish 1 thing and you dont agree with it, do you think they will stick around to accept this type of witch hunting crap. The subject at hand has been completely ignored and this topic is no longer about Naniwa, its about ESFI. Albeit great for ESFI traffic, its not an over all good result for the industry that many, including myself, are trying to grow.
I agree with boss. People constantly cry for no fluff media, but then when jason lake posts the truth on reddit or esfi posts this great article, they get attacked. People want no fluff, but in truth they can't handle it because they will attack anyone that disagrees with them. Then the very same people should have no resentments against BM, do they? In the same vein it would be perfectly fine for Naniwa to go around and insult whatever people, organizations or tournaments as well. Again, again and again. I really believe FXOBoss slightly misunderstood the fuss. I understand and support him in the notion of internet "pitchfork-ism". That not everything and everybody needs to be blown out of proportion. But on the other hand imagine a scenario where ESFI simply left out the "he is mental" part. They have been known for doing exceptional coverage and insightful editorials. To some of us, this is just irritating. One has to ask "really? why even go there?". There is plenty of sensationalism already (*cough* reddit). I don't need another outlet to go down that route, especially when they are reputable for quality work otherwise. People would be pitchforking (yes, it's totally a verb now) whether or not that was included.
I'd doubt that. You know, since there is barely anything controversial to find in the rest of the article. Naniwa's past is pretty much known, the implications that those issues may still persist in one form or another is no rocket science either.
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On December 10 2011 02:54 Vul wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2011 02:38 Klondikebar wrote:On December 10 2011 02:26 Vul wrote:On December 10 2011 02:10 Klondikebar wrote:On December 10 2011 02:02 Vul wrote:On December 10 2011 01:17 Serelitz wrote:On December 10 2011 01:09 GrungyMunchy wrote:On December 09 2011 23:35 Ninjahoe wrote:On December 09 2011 23:00 GrungyMunchy wrote:On December 09 2011 22:05 dakalro wrote:
[quote]
To make it easier for you to understand why people rightfully bash ESFI:
"He is the most disrespectful and unprofessional gamer I've ever had to deal with," - is OK to use as an opinion from an anonymous source that's in ESPORTS.
"I truthfully believe he needs to seek professional help." - is downright moronic, wrong on so many levels, including it seems more like malicious intent than trying to bring information. Either the writer and editor is an idiot or he wanted to hurt Naniwa. Bunch of amateurs, really, psych opinion from "a highly credible, high-level member of an organization who has worked directly with NaNiwa in the past" IN ESPORTS, REALLY?!?! they're qualified to make psychological evaluations now? I somehow don't even believe he knows Nani from SC2 or has actually worked with Nani for more than a tournament duration. Why does that have to do with ESFI? It's not their quote to begin with, it's an opinion from an anonymous source. I can't belive people doesn't get it.... They are talking shit about him, ANONYMOUS. This trashtalker doesn't even dare to do it to his face, to get a reply AKA not giving NaNi any chance to even defend himself. I don't know why any of that is your problem, that's between Naniwa, ESFI and the anonymous source. Because it shows that ESFI isn't a real news site, they're just a medium for 'sources' to air their dirty laundry without any journalistic integrity. I mean really I don't like Naniwa as a person but I think what ESFI has done is far worse. I don't even mind that they're apparently biased towards complexity - but the fact that they publish what should be kept in private (an 'anonymous source' thinking Naniwa is mental) as an actual news article is disgusting. Using anonymous sources in the news is pretty common http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Journalism_sourcingEdit: We're talking like NYTimes, CNN type of common. I think some of you guys are just interested in killing the messenger. Did you even read the wiki you linked? Anonymous sourcing has rarely ended well for journalism and it's practice is in steep decline. Also, when it's reputably used it needs to be corroborated with a second source. ESFI did not corroborate with a second source here. They just let someone sling some mud at a player. I'd have to say that you misunderstood it if you think that "anonymous sourcing has rarely ended well." What you're referring to is this: a news organization will often "clamp down" on the guidelines for using unnamed sources, but those guidelines are often forgotten after the scandal dies down. One study found that large newspapers' use of anonymous sources dropped dramatically between 2003 and 2004. The Project for Excellence in Journalism, a research group found use of anonymous sources dropped from 29 percent of all articles in 2003 to just 7 percent in 2004.[6] Eight years ago anonymous sourcing was on the decline (it doesn't mention what the numbers are today). The wiki states that this usually happens as a result of a scandal or bad sourcing, and that anonymous sourcing becomes more common after the air has cleared. Either way, even if this were the middle of 2004, that means 7% of all articles use anonymous sources. That's a hell of a lot of news articles. Do you really think that it's rare that those articles "end well?" Also, you don't know how many sources they had total. They don't list everybody they talked to for this story like a bibliography. They choose certain sources to feature in the story. Likely no one they talked to wanted to criticize Nani with their name appearing in the story at the time. Fine, you can choose to believe them. I'm going to say they shouldn't have used an anonymous source to slander a player and then plastered CoL money at the top of their page. If you want to use an anonymous source to cite facts, fine. If you want to use one to blatanly slander a player in a childish way, gtfo out of my community. And you also greatly overvalue 7%. I mean I don't know how many news articles are written in the U.S. per year. There are 1500 daily newspapers in the U.S. alone (I'm not even going to touch magazine and internet news sources). If they only published one story every day, that's over 500,000 articles, and 7% of that is over 38,000 articles/year. But anyway, I don't know whether they should have included the comment or not. Certainly I've heard much worse in a news story, but maybe we should expect better. I'm not sure how to weigh whether the opinion is valid. If this is a person who worked with Naniwa, maybe it's legitimate to get that perspective. But maybe his view isn't typical at all of Naniwa's former coworkers, and I understand that concern. Edit: But at the end of the day I give ESFI the benefit of the doubt on this one. I've seen their other work and not only is it fair, but they have the best interviews by far. I'd have to see something worse to say that they aren't credible.
I think your confusing absolute and relative values. 7% isn't a lot no matter how many 0's appear at the end of the number.
And like Doodsmack said earlier, if it's common knowledge that Naniwa is difficult, why do you need an anonymous source? And why on earth would you tack on the mental help part? It's a mistake that's SO easy to avoid.
The source knew they would remain anonymous so they just couldn't resist adding a little jab at the end of their quote, which really sheds some light on the validity of that source.
Journalists also have the ability to truncate quotes with an ellipsis. Why would you as a journalist include something in your article you know to be immature slander?
I think people expect Naniwa to be BM and ESFI and CoL are exploiting that to get in a little mudslinging at Naniwa's expense. He doesn't deserve that. He catches too much flak for BM that never happened.
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On December 10 2011 03:09 rotegirte wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2011 03:06 Zalithian wrote:On December 10 2011 03:03 rotegirte wrote:On December 10 2011 02:49 Canucklehead wrote:On December 10 2011 02:22 FXOpen wrote:
I have just openly stated what the source has said, and confirmed it. Does that mean that there is now valuable information divulged?
I wouldnt doubt that the source is someone who is reliable and respectable...... I know ESFI well enough that they wouldnt publish such a comment without the source meaning something.
Its 1:20 am.. Nothing was done with convenience in my post. The fact remains that even if the source is anonymous, and you choose to believe what they say or not (minus the mental help crap), the subject at large has a proven history of being difficult to deal with.
I respect Naniwa as a person, but if this witch hunting jargon continues to go on e-sports is going to look like trash.
Naniwa is a professional player, his contract was bought by an organisation. The reason behind his sale is because complexity had an issue, and it was dealt with.
Naniwa's career is still in tact, he has the ability to prove the negative comments wrong in the future. WE should be focusing on that. Rather than turning this into a media 90210.
This goes hand in hand with a question news strait times asked me this morning. "Why should the mainstream media get involved in e-sports"... If they publish 1 thing and you dont agree with it, do you think they will stick around to accept this type of witch hunting crap. The subject at hand has been completely ignored and this topic is no longer about Naniwa, its about ESFI. Albeit great for ESFI traffic, its not an over all good result for the industry that many, including myself, are trying to grow.
I agree with boss. People constantly cry for no fluff media, but then when jason lake posts the truth on reddit or esfi posts this great article, they get attacked. People want no fluff, but in truth they can't handle it because they will attack anyone that disagrees with them. Then the very same people should have no resentments against BM, do they? In the same vein it would be perfectly fine for Naniwa to go around and insult whatever people, organizations or tournaments as well. Again, again and again. I really believe FXOBoss slightly misunderstood the fuss. I understand and support him in the notion of internet "pitchfork-ism". That not everything and everybody needs to be blown out of proportion. But on the other hand imagine a scenario where ESFI simply left out the "he is mental" part. They have been known for doing exceptional coverage and insightful editorials. To some of us, this is just irritating. One has to ask "really? why even go there?". There is plenty of sensationalism already (*cough* reddit). I don't need another outlet to go down that route, especially when they are reputable for quality work otherwise. People would be pitchforking (yes, it's totally a verb now) whether or not that was included. I'd doubt that. You know, since there is barely anything controversial to find in the rest of the article. Naniwa's past is pretty much known, the implications that those issues may still persist in one form or another is no rocket science either.
You might be surprised. There was plenty of discussion about it earlier in the thread. A lot of people who support Naniwa insist he hasn't been BM for a long time, or that he is BM and it doesn't matter because he's so good.
Regardless, people will like players based on different things. While I don't have a problem admitting certain players are good, I do have a problem cheering for people that come off as spoiled, "not nice" or unprofessional in general. Players that are good examples are Idra and Naniwa. Both exceptional players, but not the kind of players I care to cheer for.
On the other side of the fence, I think players like Sheth (even if he's not really top tier), Nestea, MMA etc are better suited for me.
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Wiggity what?
Damn.
Well, that's cool. I don't care about your team, Naniwa, because neither Quantic nor Complexity is very important to me. It's about the player on this one.
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Bla Bla Bla Bla Bla Bla Bla Bla Bla Bla Bla Bla Bla Bla Bla Bla Bla Bla Bla Bla Bla.........
NaNiwa is the best foreigner and one of the best SC2 players in the world.
Go on mate - Win Blizzard Cup ! ! !
-
User was warned for this post
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On December 10 2011 03:11 Zalithian wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2011 03:09 rotegirte wrote:On December 10 2011 03:06 Zalithian wrote:On December 10 2011 03:03 rotegirte wrote:On December 10 2011 02:49 Canucklehead wrote:On December 10 2011 02:22 FXOpen wrote:
I have just openly stated what the source has said, and confirmed it. Does that mean that there is now valuable information divulged?
I wouldnt doubt that the source is someone who is reliable and respectable...... I know ESFI well enough that they wouldnt publish such a comment without the source meaning something.
Its 1:20 am.. Nothing was done with convenience in my post. The fact remains that even if the source is anonymous, and you choose to believe what they say or not (minus the mental help crap), the subject at large has a proven history of being difficult to deal with.
I respect Naniwa as a person, but if this witch hunting jargon continues to go on e-sports is going to look like trash.
Naniwa is a professional player, his contract was bought by an organisation. The reason behind his sale is because complexity had an issue, and it was dealt with.
Naniwa's career is still in tact, he has the ability to prove the negative comments wrong in the future. WE should be focusing on that. Rather than turning this into a media 90210.
This goes hand in hand with a question news strait times asked me this morning. "Why should the mainstream media get involved in e-sports"... If they publish 1 thing and you dont agree with it, do you think they will stick around to accept this type of witch hunting crap. The subject at hand has been completely ignored and this topic is no longer about Naniwa, its about ESFI. Albeit great for ESFI traffic, its not an over all good result for the industry that many, including myself, are trying to grow.
I agree with boss. People constantly cry for no fluff media, but then when jason lake posts the truth on reddit or esfi posts this great article, they get attacked. People want no fluff, but in truth they can't handle it because they will attack anyone that disagrees with them. Then the very same people should have no resentments against BM, do they? In the same vein it would be perfectly fine for Naniwa to go around and insult whatever people, organizations or tournaments as well. Again, again and again. I really believe FXOBoss slightly misunderstood the fuss. I understand and support him in the notion of internet "pitchfork-ism". That not everything and everybody needs to be blown out of proportion. But on the other hand imagine a scenario where ESFI simply left out the "he is mental" part. They have been known for doing exceptional coverage and insightful editorials. To some of us, this is just irritating. One has to ask "really? why even go there?". There is plenty of sensationalism already (*cough* reddit). I don't need another outlet to go down that route, especially when they are reputable for quality work otherwise. People would be pitchforking (yes, it's totally a verb now) whether or not that was included. I'd doubt that. You know, since there is barely anything controversial to find in the rest of the article. Naniwa's past is pretty much known, the implications that those issues may still persist in one form or another is no rocket science either. You might be surprised. There was plenty of discussion about it earlier in the thread. A lot of people who support Naniwa insist he hasn't been BM for a long time, or that he is BM and it doesn't matter because he's so good. Regardless, people will like players based on different things. While I don't have a problem admitting certain players are good, I do have a problem cheering for people that come off as spoiled, "not nice" or unprofessional in general. Players that are good examples are Idra and Naniwa. Both exceptional players, but not the kind of players I care to cheer for. On the other side of the fence, I think players like Sheth (even if he's not really top tier), Nestea, MMA etc are better suited for me.
I'm extremely strict on my personal evaluation of players when it comes to manner and sportsmanship, and I honestly don't see Nani as a particularly bad mannered guy at all (although he used to be in the past).
To me he seems more like a person who is very awkward in public and in front of the camera and can often blurt out statements that weren't very thought out. I think he himself would prefer to stay out of the media spotlight and for people to just let him play Starcraft in peace (which is why I don't think teams like Complexity that only care about exposure, spotlight and sponsorships are a good place for him).
He couldn't be less similar to Idra really. Idra thrives on his public image and actively builds it up on purpose (and his team and fans support him in that for whatever obnoxious reason). Nani isn't like that at all. If anything, he's more similar to Major.
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On December 10 2011 03:11 Zalithian wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2011 03:09 rotegirte wrote:On December 10 2011 03:06 Zalithian wrote:On December 10 2011 03:03 rotegirte wrote:On December 10 2011 02:49 Canucklehead wrote:On December 10 2011 02:22 FXOpen wrote:
I have just openly stated what the source has said, and confirmed it. Does that mean that there is now valuable information divulged?
I wouldnt doubt that the source is someone who is reliable and respectable...... I know ESFI well enough that they wouldnt publish such a comment without the source meaning something.
Its 1:20 am.. Nothing was done with convenience in my post. The fact remains that even if the source is anonymous, and you choose to believe what they say or not (minus the mental help crap), the subject at large has a proven history of being difficult to deal with.
I respect Naniwa as a person, but if this witch hunting jargon continues to go on e-sports is going to look like trash.
Naniwa is a professional player, his contract was bought by an organisation. The reason behind his sale is because complexity had an issue, and it was dealt with.
Naniwa's career is still in tact, he has the ability to prove the negative comments wrong in the future. WE should be focusing on that. Rather than turning this into a media 90210.
This goes hand in hand with a question news strait times asked me this morning. "Why should the mainstream media get involved in e-sports"... If they publish 1 thing and you dont agree with it, do you think they will stick around to accept this type of witch hunting crap. The subject at hand has been completely ignored and this topic is no longer about Naniwa, its about ESFI. Albeit great for ESFI traffic, its not an over all good result for the industry that many, including myself, are trying to grow.
I agree with boss. People constantly cry for no fluff media, but then when jason lake posts the truth on reddit or esfi posts this great article, they get attacked. People want no fluff, but in truth they can't handle it because they will attack anyone that disagrees with them. Then the very same people should have no resentments against BM, do they? In the same vein it would be perfectly fine for Naniwa to go around and insult whatever people, organizations or tournaments as well. Again, again and again. I really believe FXOBoss slightly misunderstood the fuss. I understand and support him in the notion of internet "pitchfork-ism". That not everything and everybody needs to be blown out of proportion. But on the other hand imagine a scenario where ESFI simply left out the "he is mental" part. They have been known for doing exceptional coverage and insightful editorials. To some of us, this is just irritating. One has to ask "really? why even go there?". There is plenty of sensationalism already (*cough* reddit). I don't need another outlet to go down that route, especially when they are reputable for quality work otherwise. People would be pitchforking (yes, it's totally a verb now) whether or not that was included. I'd doubt that. You know, since there is barely anything controversial to find in the rest of the article. Naniwa's past is pretty much known, the implications that those issues may still persist in one form or another is no rocket science either. You might be surprised. There was plenty of discussion about it earlier in the thread. A lot of people who support Naniwa insist he hasn't been BM for a long time, or that he is BM and it doesn't matter because he's so good.Regardless, people will like players based on different things. While I don't have a problem admitting certain players are good, I do have a problem cheering for people that come off as spoiled, "not nice" or unprofessional in general. Players that are good examples are Idra and Naniwa. Both exceptional players, but not the kind of players I care to cheer for. On the other side of the fence, I think players like Sheth (even if he's not really top tier), Nestea, MMA etc are better suited for me.
What? People who support him, are defending him? Is that supposed to suprise me!?
It's pretty shitty that ESFI World used an anon source in the way they did, but it has to be said that Naniwa does bring some of this drama on himself. If he really has no issues, be it with his mentality or attitude, then why does he keep switching teams!?
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As usual, people are more than willing to ignore the reality just because they happen to dislike it, with Talin leading the charge.
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On December 10 2011 04:02 syllogism wrote:
As usual, people are more than willing to ignore the reality just because they happen to dislike it, with Talin leading the charge.
As usual, snippy TLer's with one liners think they can be oh so clever within the space of a sentence. See how I just metagamed you?
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On December 10 2011 04:05 farvacola wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2011 04:02 syllogism wrote:
As usual, people are more than willing to ignore the reality just because they happen to dislike it, with Talin leading the charge. As usual, snippy TLer's with one liners think they can be oh so clever within the space of a sentence. See how I just metagamed you?
I'm under no such an illusion, but back at you I guess?
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On December 10 2011 03:59 MasterKush wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2011 03:11 Zalithian wrote:On December 10 2011 03:09 rotegirte wrote:On December 10 2011 03:06 Zalithian wrote:On December 10 2011 03:03 rotegirte wrote:On December 10 2011 02:49 Canucklehead wrote:On December 10 2011 02:22 FXOpen wrote:
I have just openly stated what the source has said, and confirmed it. Does that mean that there is now valuable information divulged?
I wouldnt doubt that the source is someone who is reliable and respectable...... I know ESFI well enough that they wouldnt publish such a comment without the source meaning something.
Its 1:20 am.. Nothing was done with convenience in my post. The fact remains that even if the source is anonymous, and you choose to believe what they say or not (minus the mental help crap), the subject at large has a proven history of being difficult to deal with.
I respect Naniwa as a person, but if this witch hunting jargon continues to go on e-sports is going to look like trash.
Naniwa is a professional player, his contract was bought by an organisation. The reason behind his sale is because complexity had an issue, and it was dealt with.
Naniwa's career is still in tact, he has the ability to prove the negative comments wrong in the future. WE should be focusing on that. Rather than turning this into a media 90210.
This goes hand in hand with a question news strait times asked me this morning. "Why should the mainstream media get involved in e-sports"... If they publish 1 thing and you dont agree with it, do you think they will stick around to accept this type of witch hunting crap. The subject at hand has been completely ignored and this topic is no longer about Naniwa, its about ESFI. Albeit great for ESFI traffic, its not an over all good result for the industry that many, including myself, are trying to grow.
I agree with boss. People constantly cry for no fluff media, but then when jason lake posts the truth on reddit or esfi posts this great article, they get attacked. People want no fluff, but in truth they can't handle it because they will attack anyone that disagrees with them. Then the very same people should have no resentments against BM, do they? In the same vein it would be perfectly fine for Naniwa to go around and insult whatever people, organizations or tournaments as well. Again, again and again. I really believe FXOBoss slightly misunderstood the fuss. I understand and support him in the notion of internet "pitchfork-ism". That not everything and everybody needs to be blown out of proportion. But on the other hand imagine a scenario where ESFI simply left out the "he is mental" part. They have been known for doing exceptional coverage and insightful editorials. To some of us, this is just irritating. One has to ask "really? why even go there?". There is plenty of sensationalism already (*cough* reddit). I don't need another outlet to go down that route, especially when they are reputable for quality work otherwise. People would be pitchforking (yes, it's totally a verb now) whether or not that was included. I'd doubt that. You know, since there is barely anything controversial to find in the rest of the article. Naniwa's past is pretty much known, the implications that those issues may still persist in one form or another is no rocket science either. You might be surprised. There was plenty of discussion about it earlier in the thread. A lot of people who support Naniwa insist he hasn't been BM for a long time, or that he is BM and it doesn't matter because he's so good.Regardless, people will like players based on different things. While I don't have a problem admitting certain players are good, I do have a problem cheering for people that come off as spoiled, "not nice" or unprofessional in general. Players that are good examples are Idra and Naniwa. Both exceptional players, but not the kind of players I care to cheer for. On the other side of the fence, I think players like Sheth (even if he's not really top tier), Nestea, MMA etc are better suited for me. What? People who support him, are defending him? Is that supposed to suprise me!? It's pretty shitty that ESFI World used an anon source in the way they did, but it has to be said that Naniwa does bring some of this drama on himself. If he really has no issues, be it with his mentality or attitude, then why does he keep switching teams!?
It should be noted that according to Complexity NaNiwa had no say in his transfer to Quantic. In my honest opinion, that is a very "dickish" move by complexity and they didn't even have to say that NaNiwa was forcibly transfered to another team, they could've just kept quiet so they didn't appear like the bad guys especially with NaNiwa releasing a statement which made it sound mutual.
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On December 10 2011 04:06 [17]Purple wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2011 03:59 MasterKush wrote:On December 10 2011 03:11 Zalithian wrote:On December 10 2011 03:09 rotegirte wrote:On December 10 2011 03:06 Zalithian wrote:On December 10 2011 03:03 rotegirte wrote:On December 10 2011 02:49 Canucklehead wrote:On December 10 2011 02:22 FXOpen wrote:
I have just openly stated what the source has said, and confirmed it. Does that mean that there is now valuable information divulged?
I wouldnt doubt that the source is someone who is reliable and respectable...... I know ESFI well enough that they wouldnt publish such a comment without the source meaning something.
Its 1:20 am.. Nothing was done with convenience in my post. The fact remains that even if the source is anonymous, and you choose to believe what they say or not (minus the mental help crap), the subject at large has a proven history of being difficult to deal with.
I respect Naniwa as a person, but if this witch hunting jargon continues to go on e-sports is going to look like trash.
Naniwa is a professional player, his contract was bought by an organisation. The reason behind his sale is because complexity had an issue, and it was dealt with.
Naniwa's career is still in tact, he has the ability to prove the negative comments wrong in the future. WE should be focusing on that. Rather than turning this into a media 90210.
This goes hand in hand with a question news strait times asked me this morning. "Why should the mainstream media get involved in e-sports"... If they publish 1 thing and you dont agree with it, do you think they will stick around to accept this type of witch hunting crap. The subject at hand has been completely ignored and this topic is no longer about Naniwa, its about ESFI. Albeit great for ESFI traffic, its not an over all good result for the industry that many, including myself, are trying to grow.
I agree with boss. People constantly cry for no fluff media, but then when jason lake posts the truth on reddit or esfi posts this great article, they get attacked. People want no fluff, but in truth they can't handle it because they will attack anyone that disagrees with them. Then the very same people should have no resentments against BM, do they? In the same vein it would be perfectly fine for Naniwa to go around and insult whatever people, organizations or tournaments as well. Again, again and again. I really believe FXOBoss slightly misunderstood the fuss. I understand and support him in the notion of internet "pitchfork-ism". That not everything and everybody needs to be blown out of proportion. But on the other hand imagine a scenario where ESFI simply left out the "he is mental" part. They have been known for doing exceptional coverage and insightful editorials. To some of us, this is just irritating. One has to ask "really? why even go there?". There is plenty of sensationalism already (*cough* reddit). I don't need another outlet to go down that route, especially when they are reputable for quality work otherwise. People would be pitchforking (yes, it's totally a verb now) whether or not that was included. I'd doubt that. You know, since there is barely anything controversial to find in the rest of the article. Naniwa's past is pretty much known, the implications that those issues may still persist in one form or another is no rocket science either. You might be surprised. There was plenty of discussion about it earlier in the thread. A lot of people who support Naniwa insist he hasn't been BM for a long time, or that he is BM and it doesn't matter because he's so good.Regardless, people will like players based on different things. While I don't have a problem admitting certain players are good, I do have a problem cheering for people that come off as spoiled, "not nice" or unprofessional in general. Players that are good examples are Idra and Naniwa. Both exceptional players, but not the kind of players I care to cheer for. On the other side of the fence, I think players like Sheth (even if he's not really top tier), Nestea, MMA etc are better suited for me. What? People who support him, are defending him? Is that supposed to suprise me!? It's pretty shitty that ESFI World used an anon source in the way they did, but it has to be said that Naniwa does bring some of this drama on himself. If he really has no issues, be it with his mentality or attitude, then why does he keep switching teams!? It should be noted that according to Complexity NaNiwa had no say in his transfer to Quantic. In my honest opinion, that is a very "dickish" move by complexity and they didn't even have to say that NaNiwa was forcibly transfered to another team, they could've just kept quiet so they didn't appear like the bad guys especially with NaNiwa releasing a statement which made it sound mutual.
I think we lack the information necessary to make that judgement. I agree that if Naniwa's behaviour didn't cross a certain threshold, they should have been more professional about it. However, as we do not know that and it's a reasonable assumption that this transfer was not made lightly, given that naniwa IS a very good player with some good recent results, I think it's quite likely that he was a nightmare to deal with.
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On December 10 2011 04:11 syllogism wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2011 04:06 [17]Purple wrote:On December 10 2011 03:59 MasterKush wrote:On December 10 2011 03:11 Zalithian wrote:On December 10 2011 03:09 rotegirte wrote:On December 10 2011 03:06 Zalithian wrote:On December 10 2011 03:03 rotegirte wrote:On December 10 2011 02:49 Canucklehead wrote:On December 10 2011 02:22 FXOpen wrote:
I have just openly stated what the source has said, and confirmed it. Does that mean that there is now valuable information divulged?
I wouldnt doubt that the source is someone who is reliable and respectable...... I know ESFI well enough that they wouldnt publish such a comment without the source meaning something.
Its 1:20 am.. Nothing was done with convenience in my post. The fact remains that even if the source is anonymous, and you choose to believe what they say or not (minus the mental help crap), the subject at large has a proven history of being difficult to deal with.
I respect Naniwa as a person, but if this witch hunting jargon continues to go on e-sports is going to look like trash.
Naniwa is a professional player, his contract was bought by an organisation. The reason behind his sale is because complexity had an issue, and it was dealt with.
Naniwa's career is still in tact, he has the ability to prove the negative comments wrong in the future. WE should be focusing on that. Rather than turning this into a media 90210.
This goes hand in hand with a question news strait times asked me this morning. "Why should the mainstream media get involved in e-sports"... If they publish 1 thing and you dont agree with it, do you think they will stick around to accept this type of witch hunting crap. The subject at hand has been completely ignored and this topic is no longer about Naniwa, its about ESFI. Albeit great for ESFI traffic, its not an over all good result for the industry that many, including myself, are trying to grow.
I agree with boss. People constantly cry for no fluff media, but then when jason lake posts the truth on reddit or esfi posts this great article, they get attacked. People want no fluff, but in truth they can't handle it because they will attack anyone that disagrees with them. Then the very same people should have no resentments against BM, do they? In the same vein it would be perfectly fine for Naniwa to go around and insult whatever people, organizations or tournaments as well. Again, again and again. I really believe FXOBoss slightly misunderstood the fuss. I understand and support him in the notion of internet "pitchfork-ism". That not everything and everybody needs to be blown out of proportion. But on the other hand imagine a scenario where ESFI simply left out the "he is mental" part. They have been known for doing exceptional coverage and insightful editorials. To some of us, this is just irritating. One has to ask "really? why even go there?". There is plenty of sensationalism already (*cough* reddit). I don't need another outlet to go down that route, especially when they are reputable for quality work otherwise. People would be pitchforking (yes, it's totally a verb now) whether or not that was included. I'd doubt that. You know, since there is barely anything controversial to find in the rest of the article. Naniwa's past is pretty much known, the implications that those issues may still persist in one form or another is no rocket science either. You might be surprised. There was plenty of discussion about it earlier in the thread. A lot of people who support Naniwa insist he hasn't been BM for a long time, or that he is BM and it doesn't matter because he's so good.Regardless, people will like players based on different things. While I don't have a problem admitting certain players are good, I do have a problem cheering for people that come off as spoiled, "not nice" or unprofessional in general. Players that are good examples are Idra and Naniwa. Both exceptional players, but not the kind of players I care to cheer for. On the other side of the fence, I think players like Sheth (even if he's not really top tier), Nestea, MMA etc are better suited for me. What? People who support him, are defending him? Is that supposed to suprise me!? It's pretty shitty that ESFI World used an anon source in the way they did, but it has to be said that Naniwa does bring some of this drama on himself. If he really has no issues, be it with his mentality or attitude, then why does he keep switching teams!? It should be noted that according to Complexity NaNiwa had no say in his transfer to Quantic. In my honest opinion, that is a very "dickish" move by complexity and they didn't even have to say that NaNiwa was forcibly transfered to another team, they could've just kept quiet so they didn't appear like the bad guys especially with NaNiwa releasing a statement which made it sound mutual. I think we lack the information necessary to make that judgement. I agree that if Naniwa's behaviour didn't cross a certain threshold, they should have been more professional about it. However, as we do not know that and it's a reasonable assumption that this transfer was not made lightly, given that naniwa IS a very good player with some good recent results, I think it's quite likely that he was a nightmare to deal with.
I think many of us believe he is a nightmare to deal with, including me, however what left a very bitter taste in my mouth was Jason Lake particullarly mensioning that NaNiwa had "no say" in the team switch which just makes me look at the situation favouring NaNiwa since his statement was paritcullarly neutral while both coL and ESFI "attacked" him for a lack of a better word, I will admit it could've been worse for coL but they definately did not handle the situation to the best of their ability.
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Man people never seem to be able to agree with each-other xD. Guess It's good for evolution
When i started reading i was thinking ''Naniwa can't stay out of trouble''. But when i finished it i changed my mind. I can absolutely understand that he would prefer playing in a team where he can have some buddies to speak english with in Korea. Complexity couldn't give him that.
No point denying Naniwa's personality has also has something to do with the whole deal though.
The part where Complexity says Naniwa had nothing to say in the matter seems strange though. Don't like the sound of that!
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Good for him. It's important to have friends around
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On December 10 2011 04:27 [17]Purple wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2011 04:11 syllogism wrote:On December 10 2011 04:06 [17]Purple wrote:On December 10 2011 03:59 MasterKush wrote:On December 10 2011 03:11 Zalithian wrote:On December 10 2011 03:09 rotegirte wrote:On December 10 2011 03:06 Zalithian wrote:On December 10 2011 03:03 rotegirte wrote:On December 10 2011 02:49 Canucklehead wrote:On December 10 2011 02:22 FXOpen wrote:
I have just openly stated what the source has said, and confirmed it. Does that mean that there is now valuable information divulged?
I wouldnt doubt that the source is someone who is reliable and respectable...... I know ESFI well enough that they wouldnt publish such a comment without the source meaning something.
Its 1:20 am.. Nothing was done with convenience in my post. The fact remains that even if the source is anonymous, and you choose to believe what they say or not (minus the mental help crap), the subject at large has a proven history of being difficult to deal with.
I respect Naniwa as a person, but if this witch hunting jargon continues to go on e-sports is going to look like trash.
Naniwa is a professional player, his contract was bought by an organisation. The reason behind his sale is because complexity had an issue, and it was dealt with.
Naniwa's career is still in tact, he has the ability to prove the negative comments wrong in the future. WE should be focusing on that. Rather than turning this into a media 90210.
This goes hand in hand with a question news strait times asked me this morning. "Why should the mainstream media get involved in e-sports"... If they publish 1 thing and you dont agree with it, do you think they will stick around to accept this type of witch hunting crap. The subject at hand has been completely ignored and this topic is no longer about Naniwa, its about ESFI. Albeit great for ESFI traffic, its not an over all good result for the industry that many, including myself, are trying to grow.
I agree with boss. People constantly cry for no fluff media, but then when jason lake posts the truth on reddit or esfi posts this great article, they get attacked. People want no fluff, but in truth they can't handle it because they will attack anyone that disagrees with them. Then the very same people should have no resentments against BM, do they? In the same vein it would be perfectly fine for Naniwa to go around and insult whatever people, organizations or tournaments as well. Again, again and again. I really believe FXOBoss slightly misunderstood the fuss. I understand and support him in the notion of internet "pitchfork-ism". That not everything and everybody needs to be blown out of proportion. But on the other hand imagine a scenario where ESFI simply left out the "he is mental" part. They have been known for doing exceptional coverage and insightful editorials. To some of us, this is just irritating. One has to ask "really? why even go there?". There is plenty of sensationalism already (*cough* reddit). I don't need another outlet to go down that route, especially when they are reputable for quality work otherwise. People would be pitchforking (yes, it's totally a verb now) whether or not that was included. I'd doubt that. You know, since there is barely anything controversial to find in the rest of the article. Naniwa's past is pretty much known, the implications that those issues may still persist in one form or another is no rocket science either. You might be surprised. There was plenty of discussion about it earlier in the thread. A lot of people who support Naniwa insist he hasn't been BM for a long time, or that he is BM and it doesn't matter because he's so good.Regardless, people will like players based on different things. While I don't have a problem admitting certain players are good, I do have a problem cheering for people that come off as spoiled, "not nice" or unprofessional in general. Players that are good examples are Idra and Naniwa. Both exceptional players, but not the kind of players I care to cheer for. On the other side of the fence, I think players like Sheth (even if he's not really top tier), Nestea, MMA etc are better suited for me. What? People who support him, are defending him? Is that supposed to suprise me!? It's pretty shitty that ESFI World used an anon source in the way they did, but it has to be said that Naniwa does bring some of this drama on himself. If he really has no issues, be it with his mentality or attitude, then why does he keep switching teams!? It should be noted that according to Complexity NaNiwa had no say in his transfer to Quantic. In my honest opinion, that is a very "dickish" move by complexity and they didn't even have to say that NaNiwa was forcibly transfered to another team, they could've just kept quiet so they didn't appear like the bad guys especially with NaNiwa releasing a statement which made it sound mutual. I think we lack the information necessary to make that judgement. I agree that if Naniwa's behaviour didn't cross a certain threshold, they should have been more professional about it. However, as we do not know that and it's a reasonable assumption that this transfer was not made lightly, given that naniwa IS a very good player with some good recent results, I think it's quite likely that he was a nightmare to deal with. I think many of us believe he is a nightmare to deal with, including me, however what left a very bitter taste in my mouth was Jason Lake particullarly mensioning that NaNiwa had "no say" in the team switch which just makes me look at the situation favouring NaNiwa since his statement was paritcullarly neutral while both coL and ESFI "attacked" him for a lack of a better word, I will admit it could've been worse for coL but they definately did not handle the situation to the best of their ability.
But if we assume that much, why should Naniwa's "neutral*" statement be given any weight? It's not even really a "neutral" statement as it doesn't contain certain relevant facts about the transfer; it's quite important to make it clear that Complexity didn't just randomly decide to get rid of him. He can only blame himself for the situation and if he really is such a problem behind the scenes, I do not think it's that unreasonable to make that clear. It's not like hasn't repeatedly been given new chances.
* Haha how is that statement neutral at all; he makes it sound like was the one behind the move and also indirectly attacks Complexity by saying Quantic is a much better team for him
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Edit: Yeah, Syllogism actually said exactly what I did.
On December 10 2011 04:27 [17]Purple wrote:
I think many of us believe he is a nightmare to deal with, including me, however what left a very bitter taste in my mouth was Jason Lake particullarly mensioning that NaNiwa had "no say" in the team switch which just makes me look at the situation favouring NaNiwa since his statement was paritcullarly neutral while both coL and ESFI "attacked" him for a lack of a better word, I will admit it could've been worse for coL but they definately did not handle the situation to the best of their ability.
I agree that it was a harsh post from Jason, but keep in mind that he was responding to this claim by Naniwa, quoted verbatim:
I was not a good fit in Complexity because I was all alone in Korea, and they had no plans to send any more of their players here for a long time.
There was a lot of shit thrown at CoL after that statement. Jason clarified that they were in fact about to send someone, which proves that statement false, and he added the "no say" bit to clarify that the transfer was not because Naniwa was dissatisfied with CoL and wanted to leave, but because CoL was dissatisfied. (Of course the converse might also have been true, but it was not the reason for the transfer.)
It was harsh to say that, but it was honest, and given all the flak CoL was getting, it was clearly not posted on a whim or lightly; it was in response to accusations by many people. They didn't post this unprovoked in their press release.
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On December 10 2011 04:32 Zorgaz wrote:
Man people never seem to be able to agree with each-other xD. Guess It's good for evolution
When i started reading i was thinking ''Naniwa can't stay out of trouble''. But when i finished it i changed my mind. I can absolutely understand that he would prefer playing in a team where he can have some buddies to speak english with in Korea. Complexity couldn't give him that.
False, please re-read Jason's statement. They were going to send people to Korea who he would be able to speak English with.
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On December 10 2011 05:03 bmn wrote:Edit: Yeah, Syllogism actually said exactly what I did. Show nested quote +On December 10 2011 04:27 [17]Purple wrote:
I think many of us believe he is a nightmare to deal with, including me, however what left a very bitter taste in my mouth was Jason Lake particullarly mensioning that NaNiwa had "no say" in the team switch which just makes me look at the situation favouring NaNiwa since his statement was paritcullarly neutral while both coL and ESFI "attacked" him for a lack of a better word, I will admit it could've been worse for coL but they definately did not handle the situation to the best of their ability. I agree that it was a harsh post from Jason, but keep in mind that he was responding to this claim by Naniwa, quoted verbatim: Show nested quote +I was not a good fit in Complexity because I was all alone in Korea, and they had no plans to send any more of their players here for a long time. There was a lot of shit thrown at CoL after that statement. Jason clarified that they were in fact about to send someone, which proves that statement false, and he added the "no say" bit to clarify that the transfer was not because Naniwa was dissatisfied with CoL and wanted to leave, but because CoL was dissatisfied. (Of course the converse might also have been true, but it was not the reason for the transfer.) It was harsh to say that, but it was honest, and given all the flak CoL was getting, it was clearly not posted on a whim or lightly; it was in response to accusations by many people. They didn't post this unprovoked in their press release.
How on earth does a Blizzard based community take the word "soon" seriously? CoL said they were sending someone to Korea "soon." That is little solace to someone who has been living alone for as long as Naniwa. And, as one of our non-American/English speaking community members pointed out, you can actually interpret what Naniwa said as "I have been here a long time by myself and they have not yet sent someone."
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On December 10 2011 05:08 Klondikebar wrote:
How on earth does a Blizzard based community take the word "soon" seriously? CoL said they were sending someone to Korea "soon." That is little solace to someone who has been living alone for as long as Naniwa. And, as one of our non-American/English speaking community members pointed out, you can actually interpret what Naniwa said as "I have been here a long time by myself and they have not yet sent someone."
FYI, I am part of the "non-American/English speaking community".
Naniwa made it clear he was lonely, and nobody is disputing that, or that it was hard on him.
Jason disputed the claim that they had no plans to send anyone "for a long time", which appears to be false.
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EPT
