EPTProtoss is stomping Terran...
[Nov] TLPD Race Winrate Graphs - Page 21
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MasterBlasterCaster
United States568 Posts
Protoss is stomping Terran... | ||
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canikizu
4860 Posts
SlayerS Terrans are terrible against Protoss in the first place, so meh. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On December 06 2011 09:56 The Final Boss wrote: GoOdy has some of the best TvZ Mech outside of Korea, so to say that he isn't accomplished is naive. Personally as a meching Terran I think GoOdy is really great at TvT and TvZ, but his TvP is really awful. And one major thing to note about the Jjakji vs Puzzle game is that Puzzle had no Templar Tech. Storms and Feedback would really have decimated Jjakji's army, and his strategy relied on the substantial lead his Banshee play had gained him. Another game that people point to is Byun vs a Protoss(I believe it's Oz, but I'm not sure) on Tal'Darim Altar in Code A. Byun goes 2 base, 4 fact 3 reactor Tank/Hellion (if that makes any sense) and wins mainly due to the ridiculousness of the build. Part of the reason mech worked in these games (in my opinion) is just the odd nature of the builds; given time and practice against them they would almost certainly fail. I understand peoples love for GoOdy and his commitment to Mech, but as a player he has some serious weakness in his core play. Players like Idra, Tyler and other have said that his macro falls apart, sometimes having 3 tank qued up at a time. Although he is good, it will always be questioned if the mech is holding him back or his own mechanics. But as a Protoss, siege tanks on high ground scare the shit out of me. On an open field they are kinda dumb, but up on a cliff they are beyond scary. That being said, I do believe to many "mech" units can be damaged by feedback. I would be perfectly fine with the Raven or banshee relying on a cool down for their abilities. The Thor would just need to be weakened in some way, since it was a problem for protoss when it did not have mana and the strike cannons could be used instantly. Those were the days when Tyler was thinking of picking up his own immortals with phoenixes. Or maybe the thor his just impossible to balance, since it can't be used TvP with mana and is kinda busted without. Maybe the Warhound + battle hellion will pave the way to a brave new future of mech. It would be pretty awesome to not see marauders. | ||
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Itsmedudeman
United States19229 Posts
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KimJongChill
United States6429 Posts
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Vehemus
United States586 Posts
On December 06 2011 13:50 Plansix wrote: I understand peoples love for GoOdy and his commitment to Mech, but as a player he has some serious weakness in his core play. Players like Idra, Tyler and other have said that his macro falls apart, sometimes having 3 tank qued up at a time. Although he is good, it will always be questioned if the mech is holding him back or his own mechanics. But as a Protoss, siege tanks on high ground scare the shit out of me. On an open field they are kinda dumb, but up on a cliff they are beyond scary. That being said, I do believe to many "mech" units can be damaged by feedback. I would be perfectly fine with the Raven or banshee relying on a cool down for their abilities. The Thor would just need to be weakened in some way, since it was a problem for protoss when it did not have mana and the strike cannons could be used instantly. Those were the days when Tyler was thinking of picking up his own immortals with phoenixes. Or maybe the thor his just impossible to balance, since it can't be used TvP with mana and is kinda busted without. Maybe the Warhound + battle hellion will pave the way to a brave new future of mech. It would be pretty awesome to not see marauders. Thors are easily damaged by feedback since nobody ever gets strike cannon and uses their energy. But they'll be gone with Heart of the Swarm so I guess it won't matter for long. | ||
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Lobber
Canada414 Posts
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KingAce
United States471 Posts
On December 05 2011 20:17 StiX wrote: Does anyone thinks its funny that in: PvT Protoss has the better end ZvT Terran has the better end ZvP Zerg has the better end ? Basically BW except that PvT is even. | ||
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On December 06 2011 13:54 KimJongChill wrote: Omg, looks like Protoss all of a sudden got better O.o? Mhmm it was showing even before the last patch where protoss upgrades got cheaper that the better tosses were showing up and the worst tosses were knocked out of code S and i don't believe they made it very far in code A iirc other then MC but he's been beating it up lately like the other top protosses so yeah  . | ||
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Vindicare605
United States16129 Posts
On December 06 2011 10:46 aksfjh wrote: Don't forget the siege tank damage nerf against light units. That alone made tanks almost useless against anything but stalkers and sentries. That happened so early that I didn't really consider it "part of WOL" but you're right. That was the biggest single nerf to mech in TvP of all of them. | ||
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LeapofFaith
United States446 Posts
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States46722 Posts
On December 06 2011 16:13 LeapofFaith wrote: First time Terran has dropped below a 50% win rate o.O TvZ is quite balanced, PvT and PvZ need a bit more work. I'm still not understanding what happened in PvT though. Did the upgrade buff/emp nerf really make that much of a difference? Terrans are still modifying their builds after their EMP nerf, and Protoss just discovered that double forge builds are viable, so PvT is still being smoothed out. Terrans will surely recover. | ||
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SoniC_eu
Denmark1008 Posts
On December 06 2011 16:13 LeapofFaith wrote: First time Terran has dropped below a 50% win rate o.O TvZ is quite balanced, PvT and PvZ need a bit more work. I'm still not understanding what happened in PvT though. Did the upgrade buff/emp nerf really make that much of a difference? well yes EMP nerf and upgrade buff for toss makes a difference! It's also more a sign of change in the metagame, with players like Hero and Naniwa paving the way for a brighter toss future. | ||
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aksfjh
United States4853 Posts
On December 06 2011 16:18 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: Terrans are still modifying their builds after their EMP nerf, and Protoss just discovered that double forge builds are viable, so PvT is still being smoothed out. Terrans will surely recover. I'm not so sure about the double forge thing. It's not like we've seen a surge in upgrade timing pushes in PvT. The EMP nerf, however, was a buff to chargelot/archon and heavy sentry play. Probably the biggest differences though came from the opening up of GSL and the surge of new, solid Protoss. That is, solid Protoss compared to the "clever" antics we saw from the likes of Tester, HongUn, and Genius. It really makes a difference when a player can pull off both very refined standard play and powerful all-ins, and it's what we see out of the likes of Hero, HuK, and Naniwa. | ||
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kofman
Andorra698 Posts
On December 06 2011 16:13 LeapofFaith wrote: First time Terran has dropped below a 50% win rate o.O TvZ is quite balanced, PvT and PvZ need a bit more work. I'm still not understanding what happened in PvT though. Did the upgrade buff/emp nerf really make that much of a difference? The emp nerf was huge. I dont think the upgrade buff actually affects the game that much, but it encouraged protosses to go double forge again, which was a really good strat that people had just forgotten about i guess... | ||
Grobyc
Canada18410 Posts
edit: oh, that was the EMP patch? | ||
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jmbthirteen
United States10734 Posts
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firehand101
Australia3152 Posts
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Battousai13
United States638 Posts
On December 06 2011 17:27 firehand101 wrote: My question is why are the numbers falling off so much? is it because it was exam time, or just people arent playing anymore? Ladder fear, it's real.  All jokes aside, exam season would account for a good deal of it. There's also the fact that it's the holidays, so people are probably traveling more. | ||
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jmbthirteen
United States10734 Posts
On December 06 2011 17:30 Battousai13 wrote: Ladder fear, it's real. All jokes aside, exam season would account for a good deal of it. There's also the fact that it's the holidays, so people are probably traveling more. These are TLPD games only | ||
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