Scientific American article about SC2+Science - Page 2
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jorge_the_awesome
United States463 Posts
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Kon-Tiki
United States402 Posts
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talismania
United States2364 Posts
EDIT: Fantastic quote from Josh's paper: "In Hungry Hungry Hippos there are no such constraints—one can constantly attempt to collect marbles with one’s hippo, limited only by one’s hippo-levering capabilities." | ||
IamBach
United States1059 Posts
Wow. This is great. I feel so vindicated for all the time I have spent playing this video game. I hope this is just the start of this kind of deserved attention. | ||
FallDownMarigold
United States3710 Posts
I'm wondering, what do you think about the idea of removing the motor requirement for SC2? In other words, what do you think about direct control over SC2 units via neuromotor prostheses (NMP)? The reason I'm asking is because one of the important things the article highlights is the motor aspect of SC2's difficulty. It's not like chess, where motor skills aren't really that relevant. Sure, you need basic motor connectivity to play chess, but I would argue that you don't need the refined, pruned, and much more specified corticospinal motor neuronal plasticity that you do need at high level SC2. So, on to my rationale: It has been demonstrated in mouse, macaque, and human that neuronal ensembles (activation patterns of many neurons firing in concert to some end) unique to specific, intentional motor commands exist at the primary cortex (M1) even when corresponding limbs are no longer present or innervated. Recently, researchers have developed novel strategies combining brain-computer interface technology with algorithms to recognize and record unique, intentional neuronal ensembles at M1 corresponding to unique, intentional movements. Test patients have had electrodes implanted at M1 capable of recording and analyzing cortical motor activity. Using advances in brain-machine interface, NMPs have been developed whereby patients fitted with M1 electrodes can transfer intentional thoughts directly to a machine in order to achieve movement. For example, a patient can move a cursor around a screen based on neuronal firing patterns at the patient's M1 cortical region. First researchers determine which patterns correspond to which commands. Researchers then input these instructions, and then the NMP can match neuronal patterns to "learned" commands, thereby enabling direct neuronal control over machine-assisted movement. Therefore, it would be reasonable to apply this concept of NMP-assisted control of movement to SC2. Specifically, it would be reasonable to develop an NMP that can record neuronal patterns unique to commands in SC2, such as "stutter step marines", or "move units X distance". In theory, any number of complex commands could be matched by statistical analysis to a unique neuronal firing pattern. These patterns could be read by the NMP directly off the player's brain, enabling the player to issue commands to SC2 unfettered by motor-requirements. So do you think it would be interesting to study SC2 if APM was no issue? It might be a novel way to examine players executing strategy at the highest possible level where literally, there are no mechanical barriers. So long as the player knows what must be done, the player can think, and the task will be executed (provided the NMP is made very well) | ||
Al Bundy
7257 Posts
Both Blair and Lewis see parallels between the game and emergency management systems. In a high-stress crisis situation, the people in charge of coordinating a response may find themselves facing competing demands. Alarms might be alerting them to a fire burning in one part of town, a riot breaking out a few streets over, and the contamination of drinking water elsewhere. The mental task of keeping cool and distributing attention among equally urgent activities might closely resemble the core challenge of Starcraft 2. Good crisis management is certainly the hallmark of great players. | ||
MonkSEA
Australia1227 Posts
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talismania
United States2364 Posts
On December 02 2011 10:01 FallDownMarigold wrote: Very interesting read, thank you for the heads up about the article. The fact that you are a researcher who likes SC2 tempts me to ask you something, so I'd love to see you thoughts I'm wondering, what do you think about the idea of removing the motor requirement for SC2? In other words, what do you think about direct control over SC2 units via neuromotor prostheses (NMP)? The reason I'm asking is because one of the important things the article highlights is the motor aspect of SC2's difficulty. It's not like chess, where motor skills aren't really that relevant. Sure, you need basic motor connectivity to play chess, but I would argue that you don't need the refined, pruned, and much more specified corticospinal motor neuronal plasticity that you do need at high level SC2. So, on to my rationale: It has been demonstrated in mouse, macaque, and human that neuronal ensembles (activation patterns of many neurons firing in concert to some end) unique to specific, intentional motor commands exist at the primary cortex (M1) even when corresponding limbs are no longer present or innervated. Recently, researchers have developed novel strategies combining brain-computer interface technology with algorithms to recognize and record unique, intentional neuronal ensembles at M1 corresponding to unique, intentional movements. Test patients have had electrodes implanted at M1 capable of recording and analyzing cortical motor activity. Using advances in brain-machine interface, NMPs have been developed whereby patients fitted with M1 electrodes can transfer intentional thoughts directly to a machine in order to achieve movement. For example, a patient can move a cursor around a screen based on neuronal firing patterns at the patient's M1 cortical region. First researchers determine which patterns correspond to which commands. Researchers then input these instructions, and then the NMP can match neuronal patterns to "learned" commands, thereby enabling direct neuronal control over machine-assisted movement. Therefore, it would be reasonable to apply this concept of NMP-assisted control of movement to SC2. Specifically, it would be reasonable to develop an NMP that can record neuronal patterns unique to commands in SC2, such as "stutter step marines", or "move units X distance". In theory, any number of complex commands could be matched by statistical analysis to a unique neuronal firing pattern. These patterns could be read by the NMP directly off the player's brain, enabling the player to issue commands to SC2 unfettered by motor-requirements. So do you think it would be interesting to study SC2 if APM was no issue? It might be a novel way to examine players executing strategy at the highest possible level where literally, there are no mechanical barriers. So long as the player knows what must be done, the player can think, and the task will be executed (provided the NMP is made very well) What makes you think APM is no longer an issue? BCIs are usually placed on the motor cortex, and are thought to primarily decode the urge to execute a command. Therefore a command still has to be executed. APM is not dependent on finger speed - everyone can move their fingers fast enough. APM depends on the brain telling the fingers when to move, and adding a BCI does not change that. Furthermore I've yet to see a BCI that has good enough spatial acuity for resolving individual finger movements at the speeds required. Maybe in the future. | ||
TheTurk
United States732 Posts
I have been argueing for years about the cognitive significance of Starcraft. That science is slowly recognizing this as well is a heart-warming prospect. The article is very well written. Hope this can accomodate for a growth of the beautiful game in the eyes of the general non-gamer public. | ||
KingOfAmerica
United States246 Posts
I forwarded this to a number of friends who aren't familiar with Starcraft II, because I think this articulates what a pure and excellent competition it is. | ||
Lumi
United States1612 Posts
From the perspective of the cognitive motor system, StarCraft is the most interesting thing you could do online Yeahhhhhh BUDDY ! | ||
EnderCraft
United States1746 Posts
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BroboCop
United States373 Posts
on a side note: didn't really know anything about skillcraft... now i do. to skillcraft, if you need replays from a complexity academy member (i play at grandmaster/high master level) send me a msg and i'll send them over. | ||
Maxd11
United States680 Posts
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sambour
Canada62 Posts
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EnderCraft
United States1746 Posts
On December 02 2011 10:08 talismania wrote: What makes you think APM is no longer an issue? BCIs are usually placed on the motor cortex, and are thought to primarily decode the urge to execute a command. Therefore a command still has to be executed. APM is not dependent on finger speed - everyone can move their fingers fast enough. APM depends on the brain telling the fingers when to move, and adding a BCI does not change that. Furthermore I've yet to see a BCI that has good enough spatial acuity for resolving individual finger movements at the speeds required. Maybe in the future. Anyone who has been watching Day9 for a while will remember his very newb friendly "Mental Checklist" day9 daily. I truly believe he illustrates what it means to effectively use APM and play the game in that very daily. You're constantly checking for idle production facilities, checking supply, watching the mini map, assessing scouting information, choosing when to tech/upgrade, and the list goes on. What separates the pros from your average player is their ability to effectively utilize that mental checklist. Moreover, a consequent result of utilizing an effective mental checklist is higher APM than your average player. | ||
nohbrows
United States653 Posts
Also, that picture of JP and Husky Casting made me laugh so hard. It's a classic. | ||
Tektos
Australia1321 Posts
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TastyMuffins
Canada16 Posts
Each player begins with a small base of one of three species—terran (humans), zerg (insectoid creatures), or protoss (photosynthetic aliens). lol protoss are photosynthetic aliens | ||
stokes17
United States1411 Posts
If anyone cares, I tried to find a relationship between tempo of music listened to while playing and APM. (digitally altered the tempos of a bunch of songs and did a bunch of games at each tempo... was good ladder practice lol). I didn't get anything that was significant at p<.05, but i did get significance at p=.11 which I thought was decent for an N=1 experiment. | ||
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