[D] TvP and defenders advantage - Page 7

On November 29 2011 04:36 mvtaylor wrote:


I'd really wish that, for once people would drop this stuff about EMP...

EMP takes off (with the exception of Archons) 50% hp max and against Zealots it does very very little since they have more armour hp and are far more likely to have armour upgrades than shield, along with having innate armour.

On November 29 2011 08:00 KaiserJohan wrote:


Call me crazy but I'd trade bunkers for FF any day of the week. Your bunkers are void on a 3gate immortal bust.
On the other hand, the TvP 3rax all-in on a protoss FE -IMHO- protoss has a much better chance of surviving with just zeals, sentries and a couple of stalkers for support

On November 29 2011 06:52 tehemperorer wrote:

ez win against ez Terran

If you're not dropping you're not playing the mu right

On November 29 2011 03:37 redbrain wrote:
I am a Diamond EU Terran and I find TvP extremely difficult a matchup to play-out and i would like to open this thread to my thoughts on why TvP in some ways is a broken matchup from the perspective of Terran reaching late/End-game with protoss.

Lets look at the current meta game of things protoss are doing, warp-gate timings are incredibly powerful, mixed with the warp prism which most protoss just refused to use for a long time makes warp gates even more scary where most protoss seem to abuse the sentry drop to FF your ramp before your have drop ships, this build simply will kill a terran not prepared with units up the ramp and the only way to stop it is to zone out the warp prism untill you have a viking or drop ships.

Immortal busts make bunkers kind of useless at the moment where you simply have to be extremely ontop of your scouting to know how to stop this, and even then it can simply kill you quite easily.

mass zealot late game vs terran is extremely powerful but can be dealt with micro or a tech switch to reactor blue flame helion.

But the be all and end of all what i am pointing Terran lack so much defenders advantage in TvP to such a huge extent. Look at the other matchups tanks provide such a huge defenders advantage and why is this important?

For a matchup to be dynamic and interesting we need back and forth game play, Protoss haves immortals, collosus and HT or even DT along with chrono'd warp gates to muster together a defenders advantage quite easily and allows them to survive and have a fighting chance to play out the game, but when a collosus timming off 2 base hits your choke and you only have 3 vikings and MMM even with a macro advantage and upgrade advantage, you simply will die unless you stall them and micro out in the middle of the map. It feels so much in this matchup terran _simply_ dies rather than he holds on and fights out the game.

Why dont we use Tanks?

In TvP its widly accepted that mech doesn't work for many reasons, if the protoss player plays stright up.

1) immortals tank alot of splash dmg from tanks
2) collosus or archons can destroy your blocking helions very very easily
3) charge lots always hit on charge of micro with helions because very volatile and hard to keep alive to support your tanks
4) lack of a good anti air option since you cant simply just go thors for anti air as 2 thors is simply a huge investment for a not great anti air option.

So were left with MMM with ghosts and vikings. But the longer the game goes on Terran will get weaker and weaker with this unit combo, since 2 decent HT storms can quite simply melt your stim'd army along with 4/5 collosus constantly damaging your army. I really dislike TvP in how simply volatile this matchup can be in that really terran is forced to make marauders and just keep trying to kill you and hit an upgrade timing after getting dmg done by drops. But in my opinion if there was a better defenders advantage for terran this matchup could be so much more interesting. TvP has so much sick potential as Artosis will say on the GSL but its extremely hard to do this with the current game design and balance in my opinion.

PS this isn't a balance discussion but a discussion on what you think about TvP and terrans defenders advantage in TvP in the current meta game.

On November 29 2011 08:15 Avril_Lavigne wrote:



I'll take that trade. I'd love to have forcefields. I can FF my ramp , I can FF your ramp w/e. I'd love to be able to block off chargelots and banelings away from my fragile bio. I'd feel so mobile with FF, I can regenerate energy, it doesn't cost additional money, it can't be broken down (it has a time limit) it doesn't have a build timer (except for generating energy but hey I should start off with 50 energy anyway to a maximum of 200 so that's 4 FF's) FF micro isn't exactly rocket science, it's about quickness and accuracy imo.

although forcefields in the terran army would probably break every match up in the game....... wonder why.

On November 29 2011 04:18 Lorch wrote:
And why the fuck should it ever matter whether or not a matchup is broken in some random wood league?
Protoss is kinda op in bronze ya know, mass void ray so tough to beat...
Prolevel shows TvP is fine, if you have issues open a thread in the strategy section asking for help and don't come here whinning about balance.

On November 29 2011 08:40 Came Norrection wrote:
combat shields is good against immortal bust. I think repair and 3 bunkers plus 5 rax only 1 techlab is enough to hold it, don't need for more than 1 gas either. can easily transition but you are sacraficing tech to defend an all in, which I think is justified.

On November 29 2011 08:43 MysteryHours wrote:

I don't understand this attitude that game balance is a luxury reserved for progamers. Obviously the game shouldn't be primarily balanced around bronze league but if you have non-trivial imbalances affecting a large percent of casual players then that's a problem that needs to be addressed.

On November 29 2011 08:47 SevenShots wrote:


assuming the protoss does immortal all in push you before you can scout it at all ... thats smart

On November 29 2011 08:53 Came Norrection wrote:
I donno, there is a thing from an orbital that allows you to "scan" for things anywhere on the map. maybe that might be helpful. scout the front with scv and scan his base? Teching too fast is ussually how people lose to allins.

On November 29 2011 08:43 MysteryHours wrote:

I don't understand this attitude that game balance is a luxury reserved for progamers. Obviously the game shouldn't be primarily balanced around bronze league but if you have non-trivial imbalances affecting a large percent of casual players then that's a problem that needs to be addressed.

On November 29 2011 04:18 Lorch wrote:
And why the fuck should it ever matter whether or not a matchup is broken in some random wood league?
Protoss is kinda op in bronze ya know, mass void ray so tough to beat...
Prolevel shows TvP is fine, if you have issues open a thread in the strategy section asking for help and don't come here whinning about balance.

On November 29 2011 08:44 Meta wrote:
I've decided just to wait for the warhound and the battle hellion in hots and not complain until then. Just 1base or 2base allin vs protoss, because if you stay on MMM/ghost/viking you WILL lose straight-up battle vs colossus/archon/storm/zealot. If you do end up in a late game scenario like that it's best just to base trade.

On November 29 2011 08:40 Came Norrection wrote:
combat shields is good against immortal bust. I think repair and 3 bunkers plus 5 rax only 1 techlab is enough to hold it, don't need for more than 1 gas either. can easily transition but you are sacraficing tech to defend an all in, which I think is justified.