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DarkPlasmaBall
United States44313 Posts
Obviously TvP is not broken in Protoss's favor, or else most of the best players in the entire world would not be Terran. Instead, how about you post some of your own games, with your own analyses, and ask for our feedback? It would be a lot more helpful for you instead of assuming that you're playing perfectly and that the match-up is inherently disadvantageous for you. How did this thread stay open this long x.x | ||
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softan
Sweden113 Posts
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Qibla
Australia343 Posts
On November 29 2011 10:32 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: Obviously TvP is not broken in Protoss's favor, or else most of the best players in the entire world would not be Terran. Flawed logic. Race does not determine skill. I'm sure if MVP picked protoss or zerg. He'd still be best player in the world. | ||
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quiz
Canada4 Posts
On November 29 2011 04:14 LXR wrote: The "macro mechanic" that saves terran is repairing. You need to have scv's pulled to your bunker as soon as you see they might be attacking. Being able to repair with a large amount of scv's lets terran hang on for an unreal amount of time. It's hard to push with both sentries and immortals to block the repairing, but if that happens.... you're kind of screwed. Unless you went overboard and made 2 + bunkers. That has never saved me. Protoss just FFs and i can't repair. But i can still win i just have to have a good army and catch him midfield with my units spread out and ready to flank. | ||
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quiz
Canada4 Posts
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The Final Boss
United States1839 Posts
On November 29 2011 10:46 Qibla wrote: Flawed logic. Race does not determine skill. I'm sure if MVP picked protoss or zerg. He'd still be best player in the world. Maybe not "flawed logic," but players like Mvp or MMA would surely do well with any race. I think it's also good to note that outside of Korea, the most successful players don't play Terran, but rather Zerg or Protoss. When was the last time a foreign Terran won a tournament with Koreans? When you talk about foreign Zerg or Protoss players, multiple ones come to mind; but I can't think of a Terran who won a tournament with Koreans for a while. His logic is not correct, and I think that if Blizzard continues to senselessly nerf Terran, then there may be problems, but with the current stage of the game (or the stage of the game a few patches ago), it is fairly balanced. This shouldn't be a balance thread though... | ||
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Trowa127
United Kingdom1230 Posts
Considering so many people are having a baby about the Immortal bust, watch Rain vs Hangswin from the NASL play offs last night. Rain went 1 rax marauder FE and held it easily. If you are losing to it, you are doing something wrong. | ||
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Arkless
Canada1547 Posts
User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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Trowa127
United Kingdom1230 Posts
The fact that a very, very poorly disguised balance/game design whine thread was started by a diamond player really says it all. | ||
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Arkless
Canada1547 Posts
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kidcrash
United States620 Posts
I always thought that to vary the match up a bit marines should lose 1 range and then add the BW style +1 range upgrade into the reactor. To compensate give siege tanks +10 damage back. Imagine how much of a meta game change that would create. I just want to see beastly siege tanks again and stop seeing god-like marines being spammed all match long. Edit: Poor choice of wording. | ||
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Arkless
Canada1547 Posts
On November 29 2011 11:08 Trowa127 wrote: Arkless, its been mentioned several times that gateway units are weak early game to make up for the fact that they have an offensive warp in mechanic. Can you not read? Seriously this thread makes me very sad about the state of Teamliquid. The fact that a very, very poorly disguised balance/game design whine thread was started by a diamond player really says it all. That attitude proves my point. Take your elitism elsewhere. This is TL, where people from broodwar were generally no higher than a B. And were allowed to post their opinions. But regardless, why bitch about a thread made by a high diamond, stating he isnt good enough to make a thread. Yet you a low platinum put your 2 cents all over it. Like I said, go elsewhere please | ||
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Trowa127
United Kingdom1230 Posts
How does it prove your point? This thread serves no purpose. There is a designated balance discussion thread for topics such as these. And your 'suggestion' of having the role of an offensive pylon removed (unless you built a proxy nexus) kinda defeats the point of a warp in. Do I think Terran has trouble in the TvP match up? Yes. Do I think Protoss has trouble in PvT match up? Yes. Can most of a diamond players problems be solved by actually getting better at the game instead of posting about thing that really have no effect on the out come of their games? Certainly. I even mentioned a scenario in which the build people have been complaining about most in this thread was easily defeated. How is that not constructive? Its just very sad that these threads take hold, because they stop people from looking at their actual issues in each match up and encourage them to blame it on factors they can't control - ie, balance. Lol, I'm a low platinum. Whose profile are you looking at? I'm the same level as the OP rofl. And for the record I am terrible at PvT - but you know why I'm terrible at PvT? Because I'm a bad player. Simple as that, and I accept it which means I can improve. | ||
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black3200
Canada74 Posts
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althaz
Australia1001 Posts
 .The other problem is that with stuff like the EMP nerfs (FYI this mostly just effects bad players) Terrans are drifting down a little to where they belong to on the ladder rather than having their MMR artificially inflated by Protoss players having given up on the matchup (due to no pro players winning in that matchup). | ||
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Tonem
Australia91 Posts
Protoss have numerous incredibly powerful 2 base all-ins where they can just walk up to terran and kill them and use the terrans own choke to their advantage. Terran has one 2 base all-in, the ghost timing attack, which can be countered by just spreading your units and not being greedy. Also after a big engament when terran comes out with slightly more units, they can't just attack beacuse of warp ins. So the game continues and both players keep macroing. But if protoss comes out with slightly more units they just do a warp-in and gogogo while terran floods out units 1 at a time from barracks. | ||
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Mobius_1
United Kingdom2763 Posts
What you posted was, despite your protestations, a balance whine, or a balance whine disguised as a "game-design" whine. I see plenty of P's saying how hard it is to play PvT as well as plenty of T's struggling in TvP, and I reckon that means it's decently balanced. Unless you are top GM you shouldn't be winning that much anyway. But I definitely agree with some of your points. MMMGV is the most consistent and versatile and complete composition to go for, Protoss AOEs and some timing pushes are effing powerful (not that EMPs are bad). | ||
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arfyron
518 Posts
On November 29 2011 10:57 The Final Boss wrote: Maybe not "flawed logic," but players like Mvp or MMA would surely do well with any race. I think it's also good to note that outside of Korea, the most successful players don't play Terran, but rather Zerg or Protoss. When was the last time a foreign Terran won a tournament with Koreans? When you talk about foreign Zerg or Protoss players, multiple ones come to mind; but I can't think of a Terran who won a tournament with Koreans for a while. His logic is not correct, and I think that if Blizzard continues to senselessly nerf Terran, then there may be problems, but with the current stage of the game (or the stage of the game a few patches ago), it is fairly balanced. This shouldn't be a balance thread though... I think like in BW to play terran at a really top level is incredibly difficult so only the best koreans can utilize the race to it's maximum potential (in the current metagame, I'm not trying to say the maximum potential of terran has been reached.) | ||
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MVTaylor
United Kingdom2893 Posts
I don't believe you. There are many stats that show that the most played ladder race is Zerg, then Protoss then Terran. Maybe there is an anomaly or two between certain servers and certain leagues but that is the general trend. Out of my sample of 232 games I've played: 43.1% vs Z 35.3% vs P 21.6% vs T | ||
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mlspmatt
Canada404 Posts
On November 29 2011 09:40 Qibla wrote: 1 month ago, ALL protoss were crying "TERRAN OP, NEEDS NERF, PROTOSS NEEDS BUFF, MATCH-UP IS IMPOSSIBLE!!!"" Terran said, "How bout you try a new build"..... they did. Now terran is saying "PROTOSS OP, TERRAN NEEDS BUFF!!!" I think I know what will come next. (I'm terran btw, and I'd love a buff, but seeing as Blizzard only nerfs terran to solve problems, then I think I'll just keep my eye out for a new build.) Well, Blizzard did come to the rescue for Protoss. It wasn't a "New Build" that changed the MU, Blizzard did. Granted an adjustment was needed but it's entirely possible they went too far. | ||
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