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i think infestors are the most applicable of all of them.
quite frequently in zvz i'll burrow infestors and send one at each base. pop up, fungal larva, burrow again, go home.
it's ridiculously effective since you can then move right in with the classic roach ball against roach ball. you duke it out, lose a lot of shit.
you remax, your opponent can't. gg.
i'm always baffled when zergs try IT bombing hatches against other zergs. i don't care about my hatch since money usually isn't a problem in zvz. i can just rebuild the hatch, no problem. but don't fucking touch my larva... don't EVER touch a man's larva.
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On November 28 2011 04:21 Shinespark wrote:
I find it very evil to kill so many infants but in all seriousness, the hellions and ravens really surprise me. You want to get hellions in your opponent's base to kill drones anyway, why not go for the larvae if his drones ran away in time? As for the raven, since larvae can't escape and the hunter seeker will instantly kill them without losing the raven unless he has mutas (although they are a very common strategy) which I find pretty interesting.
DTs do one-shot larvae but typically people go for the queen, spire or something like that when they can't get the drones. I imagine a tech building is worth more than larvae and specially the spire since it takes about a year to make.
Coincidentally ( or not ) the units that are good at killing larva are horrible at killing buildings.
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I have seen this used in sling bane wars, but you need to be right on Q otherwise you will just hit eggs and waste a bane.
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I larva snipe a decent amount in the super early game (gas first reactor hellion). Many zergs try to hold their fast expand with just a queen block and sending all drones from their natural to the main for harvesting until their have a bigger army. This makes their larva vulnerable to attack, and if their queen isn't positioned well, for their queen to get harassed as well.
Better zergs will both queen block the ramp and have a spine covering the queen, but depending on the position, can still leave the larva vulnerable. But that all being said, a pretty subtle part of the matchup.
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Killing larva is a low blow, like hitting below the belt. Don't do it!
You don't see zerglings rampaging in yoru maternity wards!
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The problem with larvae sniping is that its very easy to defend against. The Zerg can simply turn them into eggs. Zergs should be spending larvae immediately when they pop anyway. You're not going to find a Hatch with more than 3 larvae that isnt protected by either queens or spinecrawlers. Both of which deal with everything that kills larvae just fine.
I think out of everything you mentioned, nukes have the most potential. Because they will kill eggs in addition to larvae. Zerg units spawn very quickly from eggs, but not faster than Nukes. The problem is that Zergs are also the most difficult race to Nuke. Between creep and overlord spread they're the most likely to see the Ghost coming. They also have the easiest way to get detection.
Sometimes you can catch a Terran with his pants down with no scan, or a Protoss with no nearby Observers. And sometimes you can hit an P/T expo that has detection but no mobile units nearby. But its so easy and quick for Zerg to get an Overseer. They can actually morph it after the nuke warning and have it finished before the Nuke lands. And Zergs will be able to get units there in time to the kill the Ghost. Even if there isn't a Queen there, or any units already hatching, or any Mutas nearby, all Zerg army moves so fast on creep that they're going to kill the Ghost.
So yeah I certainly think its viable, but its a high risk/high reward type situation. Maybe when BW pros transfer over they'll have the extra APM to pull off stunts like that. But right now theres very little reason to go to all that trouble when you can move-and-forget a 500/100 octadrop instead of a 300/200 Ghost+Nuke, or 400/300 Ghost+Nuke+Medivac.
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On November 28 2011 07:09 RoboBob wrote:
The problem with larvae sniping is that its very easy to defend against. The Zerg can simply turn them into eggs. Zergs should be spending larvae immediately when they pop anyway.
That's really not true at all. Half of late game zerg is stockpiling 10+ larvae per hatch so you can instantly reproduce after suiciding into their expansion or whatever. If a terran or protoss got into the late-game against a zerg who couldn't instantly reproduce 200 supply, they should win.
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The only important one is DTs. If you aren't swiping at larvae when drones are running, you're doing something wrong. 
Perhaps infestors, in certain situations. But getting a group of lings/banelings usually better.
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In ZvZ, sure, it's a good idea. Especially seeing as how winning the ling/bling or roach/infestor wars generally falls down to macro, and missing a single inject can result in the loss of a game. However, in such circumstances, the larva should never not be in eggs, so... yeah. Possible, can be used to stop re-maxing, but other than that, it isn't going to see a lot of application.
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United States7483 Posts
On November 28 2011 07:22 ThaZenith wrote:The only important one is DTs. If you aren't swiping at larvae when drones are running, you're doing something wrong. Perhaps infestors, in certain situations. But getting a group of lings/banelings usually better.
With a DT, it's usually better to go after a tech building or the hatch rather than the larva.
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On November 28 2011 07:29 Whitewing wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2011 07:22 ThaZenith wrote:The only important one is DTs. If you aren't swiping at larvae when drones are running, you're doing something wrong. Perhaps infestors, in certain situations. But getting a group of lings/banelings usually better. With a DT, it's usually better to go after a tech building or the hatch rather than the larva.
If the zerg has a lair, you will never kill a hatchery unless you have like 4 DT attacking it
If a protoss goes for my pool or roach warren, I just immediately build another in another base and lose 20 seconds at most.
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On November 27 2011 20:17 Qikz wrote:Show nested quote +On November 27 2011 13:55 absalom86 wrote:On November 27 2011 13:47 Blizzard_torments_me wrote:On November 27 2011 13:40 unit wrote:
out of these i feel that ravens and high templar are the best options...ravens slightly better due to the fact that they dont need a shuttle (warp prism) to get there to kill the larvae...i like the idea and i might try to work it into my lategame PvZ Ravens? Ravens are just a waste in TvZ, and I very much doubt we will ever see them even in HoTS used in the matchup. Ravens are not a waste at all in TvZ. They may not be used much at the moment, but they have their uses especially for detection as well as point defense drones along with mech usually. The hellions will be a lot more likely to be seen on larva sniping duty than a raven, but a seeker missile is absolutely devastating if you get the hit in. I definately think that with the Warhound the Ravenw ill be used more as Mutas become less of an annoyance and the raven will survive more often. Sniping the larvae is a really cool idea btw, never thought of trying to kill the larvae before if there's no drones there.
I seriously doubt that. At least the Thor is somewhat good against Roach/Hydra/Buildings/Infestor/Queen/Ultra. In its current form, the Warhound will do nothing vs all of those because half of its already weak ground attack is vs mehanical. I guess you could make it purely for its antiair, but thats like making Corruptors vs Colossi in ZvP. Except the Corruptors can't fly.
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On November 28 2011 07:20 hmunkey wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2011 07:09 RoboBob wrote:
The problem with larvae sniping is that its very easy to defend against. The Zerg can simply turn them into eggs. Zergs should be spending larvae immediately when they pop anyway. That's really not true at all. Half of late game zerg is stockpiling 10+ larvae per hatch so you can instantly reproduce after suiciding into their expansion or whatever. If a terran or protoss got into the late-game against a zerg who couldn't instantly reproduce 200 supply, they should win.
In order to have 10+ larvae per hatch, there must be at least one Queen there, which just so happens to repel everything that kills larvae. Keep in mind that in the remax situation you're talking about, the Zerg is guarenteed to have good Creep and OL spread and at least 4 bases, more likely 5-6. Great, you denied 10 larvae with a 400/300 army cost investment, they will still have 30/40 larvae to remax with. Yes, you somewhat hurt their ability to remax, but is it worth removing 400/300 from the big battle? Theres no point damaging their ability to remax if their army rolls over yours and they don't need to remax.
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I think this is more of a thing that you keep in mind and use occasionaly, rather than a tactic you want to follow every single game. It will annoy zerg players, but in 99% of all cenarios losing 20 drones will hurt way more.
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Sometimes when i am doing a 2 base dt into x gate all in and i manage to get his 3rd undetected i actually leave 1 dt to kill all the larva there if he doesn't spend it right away but other then that i never kill larvas :p
Storm HTSM and helions to kill larva seems kinda pointless, it might work in a match or 2 for fun but if it actually got into the meta game at all zerg would just plant down 1 or 2 more hatch and come out way ahead if you "Larva harass: them instead of drone harassing.
Also do mutas work vs them ( Does the splash do its 1 dmg vs the other larva or are they just not affected due to the armor being 10 and the splash being like 3 or 4 ? ) ? I could see it being interesting zvz if both player go for mutas and no infestor killing his larva with aoe and doing a timing puhs ... but i am no good at zvz so idk :/
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On November 28 2011 07:47 zul wrote:
I think this is more of a thing that you keep in mind and use occasionaly, rather than a tactic you want to follow every single game. It will annoy zerg players, but in 99% of all cenarios losing 20 drones will hurt way more.
Of course you will take those drones and high priority targets when they are available, But when they are not you have an easy target to hit. 1 larva directly means 1 less unit to be made by a zerg. The ramification of losing all your larva at a wrong time, or even just 1, are devastating and game ending.
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On November 28 2011 07:39 RoboBob wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2011 07:20 hmunkey wrote:On November 28 2011 07:09 RoboBob wrote:
The problem with larvae sniping is that its very easy to defend against. The Zerg can simply turn them into eggs. Zergs should be spending larvae immediately when they pop anyway. That's really not true at all. Half of late game zerg is stockpiling 10+ larvae per hatch so you can instantly reproduce after suiciding into their expansion or whatever. If a terran or protoss got into the late-game against a zerg who couldn't instantly reproduce 200 supply, they should win. In order to have 10+ larvae per hatch, there must be at least one Queen there, which just so happens to repel everything that kills larvae. Keep in mind that in the remax situation you're talking about, the Zerg is guarenteed to have good Creep and OL spread and at least 4 bases, more likely 5-6. Great, you denied 10 larvae with a 400/300 army cost investment, they will still have 30/40 larvae to remax with. Yes, you somewhat hurt their ability to remax, but is it worth removing 400/300 from the big battle? Theres no point damaging their ability to remax if their army rolls over yours and they don't need to remax.
Yes it is as a maxed out Protoss or Terran that can't push into a hive tech army. If you are stalemating in the middle of the map or dancing in and out of broodlord range max army vs max army Protoss and Terran should definitely think about denying the remax for an easy win since Zerg armies are bound to lose in straight up fights.
After some thought in ZvZ if there is a big stalemate with spine crawlers or something it might even be worth it to go suicide infestors in late game situations. This is the biggest thing in ZvZ.
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Taking out a saturated mineral field or stockpiled larvae?
It would be nice if you can do both but for right now drones take more priority than larvae.
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Just to offer a brief thought on nukes to kill larva- by the time that tech is easily spendable Zerg will not feel the pain of a few larva dying. Unless you've implemented a stunningly fresh strategy that involves having nukes at the time his third goes up.
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I did this when no other targets presented themselves when I still played T.
It's a good idea, but killing drones would still be more efficient obviously.
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EPT
