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On November 27 2011 13:40 absalom86 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 27 2011 13:38 Inertia_EU wrote:
Although I cant see it catching on for some reason, It'd be so awesome to see someone snipe lines of larvae In a major tournament. :3 Early game TvZ every larva matters a lot. Bringing your 4 hellions to a natural or 3rd and clearing out the larvae will represent a big drop in production capabilities for a zerg. Even losing 2 or 3 larva can be absolutely devastating, representing 3 less drones as basically free damage for the terran.
At that stage of the game having drones up and mining are more important; so they're the higher priority. If the drones have left i'd rather preserve the hellions for later harassment than leave them there, killing larvae, until the reinforcements come and kill all your units.
Ravens TvZ are a huge investment and would probably be gotten just to kill larvae, which makes no sense, especially since you have no way of knowing if there will actually be larvae there.
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Why the hell would a zerg with mutalisks allow the slow raven to walk up to its hatcheries so it can shoot a missile at its larvae?
Raven can be used in t v z for spotting banes + pdd, but certainly not for larva sniping lol.
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On November 27 2011 13:55 absalom86 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 27 2011 13:47 Blizzard_torments_me wrote:On November 27 2011 13:40 unit wrote:
out of these i feel that ravens and high templar are the best options...ravens slightly better due to the fact that they dont need a shuttle (warp prism) to get there to kill the larvae...i like the idea and i might try to work it into my lategame PvZ Ravens? Ravens are just a waste in TvZ, and I very much doubt we will ever see them even in HoTS used in the matchup. Ravens are not a waste at all in TvZ. They may not be used much at the moment, but they have their uses especially for detection as well as point defense drones along with mech usually. The hellions will be a lot more likely to be seen on larva sniping duty than a raven, but a seeker missile is absolutely devastating if you get the hit in.
You forget the energy cost+research of the PDD, both of which would go towards better things. Also, most of the staples of zerg TvZ wouldn't be affected by PDD anyway...
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banelings also kill larva in one fell swoop
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in ZvZ vs fast expanding Zerg's I use this all the time when I go 14gas 14pool, baneling bust, I use the banelings to kill lings and snipe all the larva with a single baneling at they're expo, which makes the 14gas 14pool ALOT stronger if you can do it correctly, takes a lot of micro but it is possible.
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On November 27 2011 14:01 poorcloud wrote:
Why the hell would a zerg with mutalisks allow the slow raven to walk up to its hatcheries so it can shoot a missile at its larvae?
Raven can be used in t v z for spotting banes + pdd, but certainly not for larva sniping lol.
Again, this is missing the point. A raven can kill an entire stack of larva but is unlikely to do it. It can happen, but that is besides the point of the thread. I listed a few units than can be used for this, please do not focus on one single unit and argue against the thread because of how unlikely you find it to happen.
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the only practical application are hellions killing larva in the early game only because they can't get into position to kill drones. Other than that I think it's often better to just kill drones or tech so they can't actually make the units they need.
but some cool stats, next time I see a base with zero drones, zero tech and lots of larva I'll be sure to kill them instead of the hatchery...
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in zvz it can be really good some situataions in ling baneling war. but problem is usually zerg spend larvea imminently to survive anyway so you must be quick xd
for hellions its pretty hard, i try to do it sometimes but usually zerg just spawn egg with it as soon as they realize whats going on
its good to pressure like this if they do the double spine crawler at their natural but you can still fire on the larvas
lategame i dont know, think its not worth it. usually zerg has sick amount of larva. more than needed. i think its better idea to try your best to snipe tech buildings before a fight
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On November 27 2011 14:12 MorroW wrote:
in zvz it can be really good some situataions in ling baneling war. but problem is usually zerg spend larvea imminently to survive anyway so you must be quick xd
for hellions its pretty hard, i try to do it sometimes but usually zerg just spawn egg with it as soon as they realize whats going on
its good to pressure like this if they do the double spine crawler at their natural but you can still fire on the larvas
lategame i dont know, think its not worth it. usually zerg has sick amount of larva. more than needed. i think its better idea to try your best to snipe tech buildings before a fight
Thanks for the response MorroW. Glad to see a pro giving this credence, Hopefully we'll see more players embrace the concept and see it developed.
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Don't forget fungal growth, which could be absolutely viable with burrowed/dropped infestors. Again, the problem is that there are better targets (drones).
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doesn't seem worth it, you could kill drones instead
I mean, i guess if you stumble across a barren hatchery with 20 larva, no mining or queens or tech or units or overlords with it, yeah, snipe the larva
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On November 27 2011 14:20 Big G wrote:
Don't forget fungal growth, which could be absolutely viable with burrowed/dropped infestors. Again, the problem is that there are better targets (drones).
Thanks for mentioning infestors. I don't really consider it being a problem ( that there are better targets to be had ), the best targets are not always in sight, so you take what you can get  .
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It's something you can do if you know that your DT harass is over and you have nothing more that you can kill. Go for the larva.
This would only be good if you can't kill any drones / units and you know that your DT will be dead in ~5-10 sec. Just hit that larva. The zerg wants to make Drones after he have held the DT harass cause he knows that you are low on units so every larva you kill is essentially a drone
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What about nukes? They're already going to be used against mineral lines. Maybe using it on a maxed hatch + macro hatch would be viable with or without denying mining time?
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On November 27 2011 14:28 CuriousMoose wrote:
What about nukes? They're already going to be used against mineral lines. Maybe using it on a maxed hatch + macro hatch would be viable with or without denying mining time?
Absolutely. Even if the zerg pulls his drones and queen away, you are getting all the larva off him. Indirect damage along with direct damage on the hatch itself all in one.
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Eeh had this happen to me in a ZvT where they went blue flame, I was too busy getting my drones out of the way, hold positioning my queens and throwing my roaches at the hellions to use the larvae, but it didn't really mean too much cause' all they kill is like 2-3 larvae until I can get my roaches to deal with them if I missed their movement.
I can see this doing wonders in maxed vs maxed ZvT though, dropping blue flames to clear stockpiled larvae.
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Blizzard purposely gave them 10 armor so they couldnt be killed. If this picks up they will just up the armor.
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I remember watching TLO a long time ago do stuff like this against zerg as zerg. He would Neural the eggs which kills them automatically as well. It was cool.
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I haven't thought about fungal, but I have been aware nuking and SMing (as a Terran :D) is REALLY fucking effective, and fun xD
On November 27 2011 14:49 Mr. Nefarious wrote:
Blizzard purposely gave them 10 armor so they couldnt be killed. If this picks up they will just up the armor.
Don't agree, it would have been even higher then. I guess the BFH nerf really hurt them, but in the usual big numbers it's still about the same.
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There are still many other aspects of the game that have yet to be refined so we definitely won't see this tactic being used commonly anytime soon.
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EPT
