EPTTvZ is not very explored though as Mech and Hydras have roles I'm sure will be found in the coming months.
Most Developed Match-Up - Page 4
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lorestarcraft
United States1049 Posts
TvZ is not very explored though as Mech and Hydras have roles I'm sure will be found in the coming months. | ||
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Jermstuddog
United States2231 Posts
On November 22 2011 05:30 Lore-Fighting wrote: Due to the flux, PvZ is actually the most figured out, or at least the most explored. TvZ is not very explored though as Mech and Hydras have roles I'm sure will be found in the coming months. Lol, hydra having a role in ZvT... lol... | ||
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Geovu
Estonia1344 Posts
On November 22 2011 05:09 SeaSwift wrote: If PvZ ever uses any of those units I will be quite shocked  Those are all the new Toss units in LoTV, true story. Personally I think all the Toss matchups looked really well developed UNTIL a) Kheydarin Amulet removal (Yup I'm going there) and b) Warpgate nerf. The warp gate nerf almost single-handedly killed 3 gate expo in PvZ (Which IMO looked pretty stable at that point, 2 base collosus --> moar expo for Protoss and Roach hydra --> lose game for Zerg LOL (Obviously a bit of an exaggeration)). Now if you are doing that build it is very difficult to hold off roach ling timings and in general all the timings associated with 3 gate expo were completely thrown off and are currently very weak. It didn't effect PvT nearly as much but aggressive 3 gates and 4 gates became much weaker, meaning 1/1/1s could be much greedier. In PvP right before the nerf I think the matchup was quite stable. Most often if both players 4 gated they could very easily transition into anything they could currently, and if one of the players were greedy he lost, simple as that. IMO 4 gate just kept everything honest. Since the nerf the matchup has had the grace of 2 monkeys flinging poo at each other. For the amulet, it provided a means of a completely alternate playstyle from robo in PvZ. I don't think many Zergs would have considered it imbalanced or at the very least, more imbalanced than the Collosus  IMHO it made for a very fun and dynamic game. Even still I consider San vs Nestea on Shakuras Plateau to be the best game in SC2 since its release.In PvT I think Terrans just overreacted b/c they didn't know that barracks' could build a unit called the Ghost at that point in time. | ||
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nt-rAven
Canada405 Posts
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sleepingdog
Austria6145 Posts
On November 22 2011 06:40 Geovu wrote: In PvT I think Terrans just overreacted b/c they didn't know that barracks' could build a unit called the Ghost at that point in time. Funny thing is maybe...just MAYBE a slightly nerfed amulet (say, 70 or 65 energy?) would've worked so well that we wouldn't have even needed the ghost nerfs either. Amulet removal indeed occured way too quickly and was a way too drastic nerf. I think there are few who wouldn't agree on that (I mean, there's always a way to just nerf it, no?) Basicly PvT had to be completely re-developed from scratch. | ||
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Geovu
Estonia1344 Posts
On November 22 2011 06:57 sleepingdog wrote: Funny thing is maybe...just MAYBE a slightly nerfed amulet (say, 70 or 65 energy?) would've worked so well that we wouldn't have even needed the ghost nerfs either. Amulet removal indeed occured way too quickly and was a way too drastic nerf. I think there are few who wouldn't agree on that (I mean, there's always a way to just nerf it, no?) Basicly PvT had to be completely re-developed from scratch. I definitely don't disagree with you, though my inner toss feels that it didn't need any nerf at all PvT had to be re-developed from scratch b/c of Amulet. PvP had to be re-developed from scratch b/c of Warpgate. PvZ had to be re-developed a bit b/c of both. The only time I think this has ever happened in any other MU is TvZ 5 rax reaper which was obviously lol and needed to be changed, while neither of these toss changes were at all 'necessary' in nearly the same way. | ||
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TheBomb
237 Posts
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Twistacles
Canada1327 Posts
Otherwise, TvT is pretty fun and figured out but the variability keeps it fresh. I don't like watching TvT but I love playing it. Just the fact there's so many 1 base openings keep it fun, and the fact that so many compositions WORK. Bio, Bio+Tank, Pure Mech, Hellion Banshee, Skyterran. Beyond that? ZvP and TvP seem about even on the "Figured out" scale, though slightly more volatile. | ||
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Yoshi Kirishima
United States10383 Posts
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Noxie
United States2227 Posts
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cvt
United States192 Posts
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On November 22 2011 05:30 Lore-Fighting wrote: Due to the flux, PvZ is actually the most figured out, or at least the most explored. TvZ is not very explored though as Mech and Hydras have roles I'm sure will be found in the coming months. What I completely disagree. A lot of zergs are struggling in zvp now so I wouldn't say its figured out at all as there is a lot of things that could happen in the mu that isn't figured out and what not compared to zvt lol. TvZ is definitely the most developed balanced match up in the game for most of the game except possibly late late (ghosts). But no hydra's won't have a role they are to slow and bad just like in zvp how most people try to avoid hydra's due to the same weaknesses that are just to unforgiving. If you attack with hydra's you have to commit you can not retreat 9 times out of 10 and that's just bad when you are guaranteed to either lose them if you engage an army with them ever. | ||
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-_-
United States7081 Posts
I think PvP is the most developed matchup. Because of the warpin mechanic, there is no room for any mistakes, otherwise you'll instantly lose. Specifically, this means early and mid game is almost perfectly mapped out. Admittedly, late game PvP isn't completely actualized, but despite naysayers I'd say it's about as developed as any other matchup. | ||
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AndAgain
United States2621 Posts
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413X
Sweden203 Posts
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sTsCompleted
United States380 Posts
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Don.681
Philippines189 Posts
Z and T in all match-ups may use the entire tech tree. That's why ZvT feels the most developed matchup. Whenever P is in the mix, you get 1 race that has 2 less units to use vs the others. The Mothership and Carrier tech path is never a serious strategic choice. Even if you are already ahead. I think the key is to change the stats around the carrier and interceptor so that it becomes a heavy defensive unit as opposed to the offensive nature of the colossi. | ||
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ThePlayer33
Australia2378 Posts
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SafeAsCheese
United States4924 Posts
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KeKeSynergy
United States13 Posts
But all jokes aside I think TvT is the most developed match-up :D | ||
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