EPTMost Developed Match-Up - Page 2
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NB
Netherlands12045 Posts
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
Always seem to get the best matches out of them, and they are played at high levels the most. I wouldnt consider any protos match up the most developed yet considering they have still to find the way there race is to be played STILL...sometimes protos own a match up for a few weeks, then they get destroyed in it and complain unbalance for another week or 10 or months.... | ||
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teamsolid
Canada3668 Posts
-Warpgate removes all concepts of defender's advantage -Colossus is just a boring unit compared to reaver and often becomes the center-piece of the army in all 3 matchups in the mid-late game -Their armies are too ball-centric (not necessarily a bad thing, as it was the same in BW but the balls need to be more interesting) -Forcefields can be frustrating to watch sometimes because they usually seem like an all-or-nothing spell (they completely limit the other player's ability to micro) -Most PvZ games end up being either 2-base all-in or turtle to 200/200 death ball game I can't really even predict how the matchups will evolve, but I do think something needs to be done about the colossus for HOTS. | ||
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xOff
United States247 Posts
Not to mention all games lately just focus on protoss turtling hardcore to get a deathball or doing weird timing all ins. This is largely at fault to terran advantage early game and protoss advantage late. | ||
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xCenasfu
Finland143 Posts
On November 22 2011 00:41 teamsolid wrote:-Forcefields can be frustrating to watch sometimes because they usually seem like an all-or-nothing spell (they completely limit the other player's ability to micro) Moving your units as a clump is not micro. Using stimpack or guardian shielf isn't micro. A-moving Roaches isn't micro.. | ||
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sereniity
Sweden1159 Posts
On November 22 2011 01:02 xCenasfu wrote: Moving your units as a clump is not micro. Using stimpack or guardian shielf isn't micro. A-moving Roaches isn't micro.. I think you missed the point lol.... How exactly do you micro units that can't move? | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On November 22 2011 00:50 xOff wrote: TvP Should DEFINITELY not be on the good matchups.. Terran cannot move away from T1 Bio, asides to support ghosts and vikings. That is not developed at all. Not to mention all games lately just focus on protoss turtling hardcore to get a deathball or doing weird timing all ins. This is largely at fault to terran advantage early game and protoss advantage late. It's a personal opinion. In my eyes, a good terran can stand up to any Protoss composition in the lategame with properly played MMMVG (faster expanding then P, good snipes and EMPs, good upgrades, proper mobile play with drops and superior positioning) Also every Protoss can turtle through any early-midgame aggression and still get a good piece of the map. But I think it is rather map dependend. Terran can't be to far away from protoss, yet the map has to be open enough to allow for good kiting. That's where I think terrans can still improve (or have to improve) Also there is no denying that we see a lot of lategame/stability focused play in the matchup (upgrades, lots of bases) though terran compositions could need a dash more of hightech units (but already using all nonmech T1-T2 units). But compared to PvZ, PvP and ZvZ it is pretty stable imo, with these 3MUs getting completly dominated by wild allins. | ||
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Greggle
United States1131 Posts
TvZ is close by though, and by far the most entertaining IMO. Pretty much every unit but the Hydralisk has a purpose but I don't think its developed the complex web of counters TvT has with mech, bio, and air all having such different interactions, but that may just be the result of a mirror vs non-mirror. PvP is in the fucking stone age. | ||
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PoisedYeTi
Australia167 Posts
On November 21 2011 23:54 Velr wrote: The best matchup is probably TvT -.-. ZvT lategame-Ghosts seem just stupid... Else i would vote this. This thread is not asking about the 'best matchup' just he most 'developed matchup'. Which i would have to say ZvT is the most developed at this point. PvZ being the most underdeveloped. | ||
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Neurosis
United States893 Posts
I think t v p will never really reach a super interesting level because too much stuff was nerfed for both races. Really there aren't a lot of options left for either race so its always pretty bland. I've never cared for z v p, it's the most boring of the non mirror matches for me but then again I don't play either race so maybe I'm just biased. I don't think anyone can argue that P v P is by far the least developed MU but I don't think that's necessarily because of the players. I mean when both sides have warp gates....yeah, you get some pretty stupid and unforgiving matches. | ||
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VirgilSC2
United States6151 Posts
On November 22 2011 01:07 sereniity wrote: I think you missed the point lol.... How exactly do you micro units that can't move? Exactly, Fungal Growth is frustrating to watch. | ||
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fatworthlessvirgin
United States34 Posts
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Yaki
France4234 Posts
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Neurosis
United States893 Posts
On November 22 2011 01:57 fatworthlessvirgin wrote: Before Blizzard nerfed mech and made the matchup a retard a move bio fest TvT was by far the most developed. Now it's ZvT by default. lol? Marine/tank/medi in t v t is very micro intensive, certainly way more than just pure mech. I find mech vs mech highly boring in sc2. | ||
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Hierarch
United States2197 Posts
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SeaSwift
Scotland4486 Posts
On November 22 2011 00:41 teamsolid wrote: It's actually a bit sad... all 3 of the PvX matchups seem "undeveloped" compared to the rest of the matchups in the game. I think it's just the design of the race in general that has some issues, but it's hard to pinpoint exactly where. Some examples: -Warpgate removes all concepts of defender's advantage -Colossus is just a boring unit compared to reaver and often becomes the center-piece of the army in all 3 matchups in the mid-late game -Their armies are too ball-centric (not necessarily a bad thing, as it was the same in BW but the balls need to be more interesting) -Forcefields can be frustrating to watch sometimes because they usually seem like an all-or-nothing spell (they completely limit the other player's ability to micro) -Most PvZ games end up being either 2-base all-in or turtle to 200/200 death ball game I can't really even predict how the matchups will evolve, but I do think something needs to be done about the colossus for HOTS. I think it's also because Protoss matchups have had the most influential patches over time, so the PvX matchup never becomes stable. Example: Tons of changes to Protoss early game in an attempt to make PvP better (Immortal range, pylon radius, ramp warp-in, WG research time nerfed, Zealot/Sentry build times changed). Most other changes to the game have been about the mid-lategame. The Infestor buff seemed huge but only really effected ZvX mid-lategame, so the early game stayed the same, and it only really changed one unit's viability with the rest of the Zerg composition remaining roughly the same. | ||
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gillon
Sweden1578 Posts
On November 22 2011 00:13 mrafaeldie12 wrote: I personally think TvT is the most developed MU because usually the best player always wins,it's not like ZvZ where in a flip of a coin a player like IM.NesTea can lose to TLAF'Liquid.HayprO Don't talk shit about banjo. | ||
Poopi
France12904 Posts
TvT is basically solved if you go past the early game volability that is still present, because most of the macro games tvt are won by making less mistakes than the opponent, and you can see pure mirror until very late in the game (Mvp vs TOP game 1 of the finals, watch it you'll understand :D). TvZ is not that much developped, since Mvp can't play a lot of bio games, we don't get to see his bio play and he is nearly the only one with his teammate Happy who play mech TvZ so mech is not fully developped. Plus there are players like MKP who can crush the likes of Leenock & DRG with a ton of different builds & playstyles so the standart play is not fully defined yet. TvP is such a joke, as you can see with the various terrans all-ins (marine/tank and 1-1-1) and the protoss all-ins, and the fact that no one can win consistently with "standart" MMMVG in a macro game, the match-up is a mindfuck. | ||
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sereniity
Sweden1159 Posts
On November 22 2011 01:56 VirgilSC2 wrote: Exactly, Fungal Growth is frustrating to watch. That too yes! | ||
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ThaZenith
Canada3116 Posts
Protoss still have no idea what they're doing in any matchup. Not really their fault, there just isn't much they can do. | ||
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