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On November 16 2011 03:16 Condor Hero wrote:
My league is irrelevant, I'm not new, and I am an "elitist."
Your opinion is still garbage if you think Coca should be given a slap on the wrist.
Btw it's hard for someone to be both new and elitist.
I'm my experience you need time to be an elitist.
I disagree. I think he has the right opinion if he thinks CoCa should instead receive a light punishment.
Btw it's easy to be both new and elitist. Be an elitist, and show up someplace new. Were you under the impression that time spent in places changes who one is on the inside? Off topic but it seemed like a no-brainer
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There is only one solution for gom as far as I see, let this slide and proclaim that coca forfeiting his code S was something he did volunterily to save his face (which is somewhat true, I think), but make a note that any such behaviour from now on (appearing to the game yet giving it away) will be punished heavily.
If they were to punish coca in any way, they would need to punish Idra and Demuslim as well as several other non-Korean players for doing something like this in the past, else they would apply double standards either to (a) Koreans and non-Koreans or to (b) events sanctioned by them and events not sanctioned by them.
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On November 16 2011 02:44 MrTortoise wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 02:38 Condor Hero wrote:On November 16 2011 02:33 MrTortoise wrote:On November 16 2011 02:30 Condor Hero wrote:On November 16 2011 02:08 Emma Watson wrote:
Extremely disappointed in Boxer. As the wise mentor of team Slayers you would expect him to be strict, but also to be lenient and forgiving. Handing out such harsh punishment to a kid like Coca....I don't know, I imagined Boxer to be a White-Ra/Gandalf-like person who takes the context of Coca's actions into account and judges accordingly.
Boxer's reaction to this whole thing was equivalent to a overly eager dad who catches his son stealing a candybar and proceeds to beat the shit out of him, so the other parents don't think he is a bad father.
I am a social worker myself and let me tell you this: Kids make mistakes, your job as an adult is make sure that they learn from it by giving them second chances. And lets be clear: Coca's actions were well-intentioned, but he chose the wrong way to go about it.
What the fuck are you talking about? Do you have any idea what Boxer and other people gave up for progaming to be a legitimate career? Esports was sold on the passion of the players and fans. Nobody gives a shit that Coca is a "kid." He's a progamer on Slayers so he should be counted on to be professional. aww did your parents and teachers give you a hard time? the point is that kids are not able to undesrtand the consequences of their actions - in fact a lot of adults cant either (which is fueling some interesting legal debates). As such punishment that could seriously damage their improvement and progression does nobody any favors. What if one of these kids coul dof been the next boxer ... but did something stupid and met the anger of all othe other people out there that are pissed off at life and want to see someone crucified to make them feel better? He's not asked to make a life decision. In that specific instance he was a professional gamer competing in a professional competition (small and minor maybe, but still organized). Exactly what part of that do you think is confusing? Think about competition. How is anyone supposed to watch SC2 if they have to be suspicious anytime teammates or friends are playing each other? For this reason, I got no problem with people being cheesy as fuck because as a spectator I want to watch two players try everything they possibly can to win. That's the entire purpose of any tournament. Btw Coca probably accepted his punishment voluntarily. If not he can just leave Slayers and still compete in GSL on his own. Well actually EVERY decision is a life decision. I agree with the punishment but i just dont think it shuold kill his career because he is a dumbass briefly. 17/18 is still a kid tbh.
You're a child until the release of hormons... so guess people are extremely late developed where you come from. Beside children very clearly understand the consequences of their actions, just don't care about them, since they're often none existing (unless they're plain stupid). But this has nothing to do in this case, this is a serious tournament and rules and ethics has to be followed, or it shall be punished.
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On November 16 2011 03:07 ftd.rain wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 02:56 Condor Hero wrote:On November 16 2011 02:51 ftd.rain wrote:On November 16 2011 02:49 Condor Hero wrote:On November 16 2011 02:44 MrTortoise wrote:On November 16 2011 02:38 Condor Hero wrote:On November 16 2011 02:33 MrTortoise wrote:On November 16 2011 02:30 Condor Hero wrote:On November 16 2011 02:08 Emma Watson wrote:
Extremely disappointed in Boxer. As the wise mentor of team Slayers you would expect him to be strict, but also to be lenient and forgiving. Handing out such harsh punishment to a kid like Coca....I don't know, I imagined Boxer to be a White-Ra/Gandalf-like person who takes the context of Coca's actions into account and judges accordingly.
Boxer's reaction to this whole thing was equivalent to a overly eager dad who catches his son stealing a candybar and proceeds to beat the shit out of him, so the other parents don't think he is a bad father.
I am a social worker myself and let me tell you this: Kids make mistakes, your job as an adult is make sure that they learn from it by giving them second chances. And lets be clear: Coca's actions were well-intentioned, but he chose the wrong way to go about it.
What the fuck are you talking about? Do you have any idea what Boxer and other people gave up for progaming to be a legitimate career? Esports was sold on the passion of the players and fans. Nobody gives a shit that Coca is a "kid." He's a progamer on Slayers so he should be counted on to be professional. aww did your parents and teachers give you a hard time? the point is that kids are not able to undesrtand the consequences of their actions - in fact a lot of adults cant either (which is fueling some interesting legal debates). As such punishment that could seriously damage their improvement and progression does nobody any favors. What if one of these kids coul dof been the next boxer ... but did something stupid and met the anger of all othe other people out there that are pissed off at life and want to see someone crucified to make them feel better? He's not asked to make a life decision. In that specific instance he was a professional gamer competing in a professional competition (small and minor maybe, but still organized). Exactly what part of that do you think is confusing? Think about competition. How is anyone supposed to watch SC2 if they have to be suspicious anytime teammates or friends are playing each other? For this reason, I got no problem with people being cheesy as fuck because as a spectator I want to watch two players try everything they possibly can to win. That's the entire purpose of any tournament. Btw Coca probably accepted his punishment voluntarily. If not he can just leave Slayers and still compete in GSL on his own. Well actually EVERY decision is a life decision. I agree with the punishment but i just dont think it shuold kill his career because he is a dumbass briefly. 17/18 is still a kid tbh. His punishment will not kill his career. The only thing he gave up was his Code S spot (which is less valuable than before, but still hard to get into Code A). Boxer is basically making sure the fans know that Coca is being punished but he's got a free pass to come back when the team thinks he's ready (likely a few months after the angry people calm down). I see more people angry at the harsh punishment than the other way around. No offense but most of these people are new SC2 people who got no idea what they're talking about, including you. Your argument that "he was JUST trying to help a friend" is pure garbage. The point of a competition is to show your skill and try your best to win. Coca treated it like a joke and despite how he had nothing to gain it is still match-fixing. Any hint of match-fixing in Korea esports will bring down the hammer so don't be surprised. "Including you" my ass, be more careful when throwing your elitist garbage around, I know enough about the sAvioR issue and I'm also high masters, you on the other hand are probably new.
You're both ridiculous and your argument has nothing to do with the thread, take it outside.
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I think they should be given slack. Too much bad publicity would hurt the eSports scene.
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Maybe this will help some of you who are having difficulties looking down upon match fixing simply because it is helping a friend and would mean no detriment to yourself.
I agree that it is nice to help a friend, when you can, but these tournaments are a competition and are not for you, the player. They are a competition to determine who is best and are supported by the fans and sponsors who are paying to see you compete and who take the time out of their day to watch you compete!
This game will still be here for players whether or not these tournaments or esports exists. The players are NOT the reason for the tournaments, it is the fans and the sponsors (repetition gets the point across  ). These people do not pay money and take time out of their day to watch players fix matches and simply not play at their best. As a fan or sponsor, I do not care what that match means for your opponent, who happens to be your friend, because I paid money (or took time out of my day) to watch the two of you COMPETE and play at your best to determine who is the better player. This is what I want, this is what I expect.
While we all could fairly safely assume this was happening in the background, now it is out in the open. It is extremely sad and unfortunate that match fixing is still occurring in esports, while it is not to the extent of the Savior situation, the principle is the same! Match fixing bad.
As a fan of esports I am ashamed of what some players are doing; it is match fixing and it is wrong! I am also equally ashamed at hearing players like Sheth, stating that they would likely do the same if in the same situation where they can help out a teammate (or player/friend they like) with no detriment to themselves, this is match fixing and it is wrong no matter what! Fans do not want to see players throw matches, no matter how entertaining they can try to make it. We want to see them truly compete to the best of their abilities.
PS. Sheth was playing devils advocate, so those may not be his actual beliefs, but is the mentality of what many pros think, korea or not.
These are my 2 cents, Thank you for reading this if you got this far.
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On November 16 2011 03:41 JustPassingBy wrote:
There is only one solution for gom as far as I see, let this slide and proclaim that coca forfeiting his code S was something he did volunterily to save his face (which is somewhat true, I think), but make a note that any such behaviour from now on (appearing to the game yet giving it away) will be punished heavily.
If they were to punish coca in any way, they would need to punish Idra and Demuslim as well as several other non-Korean players for doing something like this in the past, else they would apply double standards either to (a) Koreans and non-Koreans or to (b) events sanctioned by them and events not sanctioned by them.
Yet again it must be said: GOM DID NOT PUNISH COCA. SLAYERS DID.
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I think Byun getting that puppy was a great curse. Since getting the puppy:
ZeNEX misses the playoffs
Byun drops out of code S
Byun drops out of code A
Byun is disgraced
Maybe the LegalMind award should go to him and not Top. It's been a real shame. =(
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United States10774 Posts
On November 16 2011 03:31 ftd.rain wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 03:27 Condor Hero wrote:On November 16 2011 03:21 ftd.rain wrote:On November 16 2011 03:16 Condor Hero wrote:On November 16 2011 03:07 ftd.rain wrote:On November 16 2011 02:56 Condor Hero wrote:On November 16 2011 02:51 ftd.rain wrote:On November 16 2011 02:49 Condor Hero wrote:On November 16 2011 02:44 MrTortoise wrote:On November 16 2011 02:38 Condor Hero wrote:
[quote]
He's not asked to make a life decision.
In that specific instance he was a professional gamer competing in a professional competition (small and minor maybe, but still organized).
Exactly what part of that do you think is confusing?
Think about competition.
How is anyone supposed to watch SC2 if they have to be suspicious anytime teammates or friends are playing each other?
For this reason, I got no problem with people being cheesy as fuck because as a spectator I want to watch two players try everything they possibly can to win. That's the entire purpose of any tournament.
Btw Coca probably accepted his punishment voluntarily.
If not he can just leave Slayers and still compete in GSL on his own. Well actually EVERY decision is a life decision. I agree with the punishment but i just dont think it shuold kill his career because he is a dumbass briefly. 17/18 is still a kid tbh. His punishment will not kill his career. The only thing he gave up was his Code S spot (which is less valuable than before, but still hard to get into Code A). Boxer is basically making sure the fans know that Coca is being punished but he's got a free pass to come back when the team thinks he's ready (likely a few months after the angry people calm down). I see more people angry at the harsh punishment than the other way around. No offense but most of these people are new SC2 people who got no idea what they're talking about, including you. Your argument that "he was JUST trying to help a friend" is pure garbage. The point of a competition is to show your skill and try your best to win. Coca treated it like a joke and despite how he had nothing to gain it is still match-fixing. Any hint of match-fixing in Korea esports will bring down the hammer so don't be surprised. "Including you" my ass, be more careful when throwing your elitist garbage around, I know enough about the sAvioR issue and I'm also high masters, you on the other hand are probably new. My league is irrelevant, I'm not new, and I am an "elitist." Your opinion is still garbage if you think Coca should be given a slap on the wrist. Btw it's hard for someone to be both new and elitist. I'm my experience you need time to be an elitist. No, it actually isn't hard bronzie (only bronzies hide their league), they are called hypocrites, the world is full of them. My league is still irrelevant and you are apparently 12 years old who got a pass out of the B.net forums so I'm going to stop responding to you. How is that different from looking down on sc2 players(or being an elitist in general)?I'm just talking on your level, oh the hypocrisy.
What are you even babbling about
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On November 16 2011 03:48 _Depression wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 03:41 JustPassingBy wrote:
There is only one solution for gom as far as I see, let this slide and proclaim that coca forfeiting his code S was something he did volunterily to save his face (which is somewhat true, I think), but make a note that any such behaviour from now on (appearing to the game yet giving it away) will be punished heavily.
If they were to punish coca in any way, they would need to punish Idra and Demuslim as well as several other non-Korean players for doing something like this in the past, else they would apply double standards either to (a) Koreans and non-Koreans or to (b) events sanctioned by them and events not sanctioned by them. Yet again it must be said: GOM DID NOT PUNISH COCA. SLAYERS DID.
First of all, I stand corrected. The thing between Demuslim and Idra was previously arranged with the admins.
And second of all, please don't reply in all caps if you haven't read the original post thouroughly. I never said that gom did anything, I am aware gom is currently investigating the case and will do something (at least a statement). I'm just saying that there is only one thing they can do as of now, if they don't want to apply double standards.
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Well i bet Byun feels like shit, just lost his friend his code S spot who had a really good chance at a good run in Code S.
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Wow SlayerS really is hard in punishment. I understand why they would have him forfeit his code s spot and not allow him to play in any tournaments this year and even removing him from the a team seems somewhat reasonable, but making him train outside the slayers house? Seems a little too harsh to me.
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On November 16 2011 03:53 dekoN wrote:
Well i bet Byun feels like shit, just lost his friend his code S spot who had a really good chance at a good run in Code S.
I knew it'd be only a matter of time before someone said something like this. 
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Don't really get how this can be interpreted as match fixing. I can't seem to find where it says that he threw the third game to intentionally allow Byun to advance.. he probably just figured he would 3-0 him.
This kind of thing is pretty common between players that are friends - you meet up in some daily or weekly tournament and play a series where you mess around.
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*facepalm*. Seriously, if they were going to do something this stupid, couldn't they at least TRY to hide it?
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Yay even fewer good zergs in code S . . . this whole incident is stupid, him losing a code S spot and everyone making a big deal out of it... its not like he was match fixing, they were talking in game chat.
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On November 16 2011 02:42 windsupernova wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 02:33 MrTortoise wrote:On November 16 2011 02:30 Condor Hero wrote:On November 16 2011 02:08 Emma Watson wrote:
Extremely disappointed in Boxer. As the wise mentor of team Slayers you would expect him to be strict, but also to be lenient and forgiving. Handing out such harsh punishment to a kid like Coca....I don't know, I imagined Boxer to be a White-Ra/Gandalf-like person who takes the context of Coca's actions into account and judges accordingly.
Boxer's reaction to this whole thing was equivalent to a overly eager dad who catches his son stealing a candybar and proceeds to beat the shit out of him, so the other parents don't think he is a bad father.
I am a social worker myself and let me tell you this: Kids make mistakes, your job as an adult is make sure that they learn from it by giving them second chances. And lets be clear: Coca's actions were well-intentioned, but he chose the wrong way to go about it.
What the fuck are you talking about? Do you have any idea what Boxer and other people gave up for progaming to be a legitimate career? Esports was sold on the passion of the players and fans. Nobody gives a shit that Coca is a "kid." He's a progamer on Slayers so he should be counted on to be professional. aww did your parents and teachers give you a hard time? the point is that kids are not able to undesrtand the consequences of their actions - in fact a lot of adults cant either (which is fueling some interesting legal debates). As such punishment that could seriously damage their improvement and progression does nobody any favors. What if one of these kids coul dof been the next boxer ... but did something stupid and met the anger of all othe other people out there that are pissed off at life and want to see someone crucified to make them feel better? Whats with the smugness in your post? Those kids are 17 and 18. And how do you teach people that there are consequences to their actions? By making them live through the consequences. And how this is hampering their improvement? They didn't get kicked out of their teams, only a few unreasonable humans are the ones wanting to see them crucified(see the posts that say the punishment was not enough) If anything it seems you are the one angry at life here lol. Jessica, boxer and gerard are not their parents, they are the team managers, they have to respond to their sponsors and to their fans, if one of the members of their team act in a way to embarass their organizations they have all the right in the world to punish them. Punishment may be harsh, but crucifying? Not really
18 isn't a 'kid' anymore, to add to that.
18 is old enough to be drafted in Korea.
Age is not an excuse here.
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On November 15 2011 23:40 Derez wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 23:36 Plansix wrote:On November 15 2011 23:29 Asha` wrote:On November 15 2011 23:25 Xalorian wrote:On November 15 2011 23:18 Msr wrote:
why does anybody care if a player does this... If a player wants to throw a match that is their own decision. So he can bet all is money against himself and throw the game...? Seems right. This is not a little fun game or event match, it's a qualifier. There was money on the line. What about all those peoples that got eliminated by CoCa that could probably have won this thing otherwise? WHY IN THE HELL would you subscribe to a tournament if you would just throw it up if you were playing against a mate? What if all team start doing that? It's just not fair for the others. It's not a qualifier. No one else got eliminated by Coca. It was the first round of the tournament. There's no money for anyone outside the top 4. It does not matter. Throwing a match at the request of you opponent is bad and likely against the rules of any tournament. It is your decision to do so, but by doing so you risk being thrown out of the league. Anyone objecting to them being thrown out is just plain silly. I have no problem with coca being tossed out of the weekly, which is perfectly reasonable. The problem is that he won't be playing in code S anymore because of doing this. This isn't matchfixing, this is an individual choosing not to compete for a match a.k.a. forfeiting, which is his choice. There have been plently of players doing exactly the same thing (IPL groupstage comes to mind).
That is not why they was removed, though. If a player was sick and decided half way through he was to ill and wanted to forfit, we woudl not be talking about this. We would wish him luck and move on.
The problem is that a player quit at the request of his opponent. Even if they did not mean any harm, it looks HORRIBLE. It calls into question why they did it, if they were fixing matches and the validity of all their other games. Context is everything.
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On November 16 2011 04:01 Dfgj wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 02:42 windsupernova wrote:On November 16 2011 02:33 MrTortoise wrote:On November 16 2011 02:30 Condor Hero wrote:On November 16 2011 02:08 Emma Watson wrote:
Extremely disappointed in Boxer. As the wise mentor of team Slayers you would expect him to be strict, but also to be lenient and forgiving. Handing out such harsh punishment to a kid like Coca....I don't know, I imagined Boxer to be a White-Ra/Gandalf-like person who takes the context of Coca's actions into account and judges accordingly.
Boxer's reaction to this whole thing was equivalent to a overly eager dad who catches his son stealing a candybar and proceeds to beat the shit out of him, so the other parents don't think he is a bad father.
I am a social worker myself and let me tell you this: Kids make mistakes, your job as an adult is make sure that they learn from it by giving them second chances. And lets be clear: Coca's actions were well-intentioned, but he chose the wrong way to go about it.
What the fuck are you talking about? Do you have any idea what Boxer and other people gave up for progaming to be a legitimate career? Esports was sold on the passion of the players and fans. Nobody gives a shit that Coca is a "kid." He's a progamer on Slayers so he should be counted on to be professional. aww did your parents and teachers give you a hard time? the point is that kids are not able to undesrtand the consequences of their actions - in fact a lot of adults cant either (which is fueling some interesting legal debates). As such punishment that could seriously damage their improvement and progression does nobody any favors. What if one of these kids coul dof been the next boxer ... but did something stupid and met the anger of all othe other people out there that are pissed off at life and want to see someone crucified to make them feel better? Whats with the smugness in your post? Those kids are 17 and 18. And how do you teach people that there are consequences to their actions? By making them live through the consequences. And how this is hampering their improvement? They didn't get kicked out of their teams, only a few unreasonable humans are the ones wanting to see them crucified(see the posts that say the punishment was not enough) If anything it seems you are the one angry at life here lol. Jessica, boxer and gerard are not their parents, they are the team managers, they have to respond to their sponsors and to their fans, if one of the members of their team act in a way to embarass their organizations they have all the right in the world to punish them. Punishment may be harsh, but crucifying? Not really 18 isn't a 'kid' anymore, to add to that. 18 is old enough to be drafted in Korea. Age is not an excuse here.
It's not an excuse, per se, but it certainly explains a lot. People are dumb at 17. People are dumb well into their 20s. =X
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Why are you guys asking for more information? What don't you get?...
Coca is in Code S, Byun (Former team mate of Slayers) is in Code B. Coca left the game so his "friend" could get a Code A seed which helps him out tremendously. They didn't seem to plan it out until the games started which basically has been announced to the world exactly what they were doing. No GG  .
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EPT
