|
I'm with the people in this thread that thinks this is a complete overreation. One stupid thing should not be able to end your career forever. It was a small tournament (not saying this makes it right, but certainly less severe) and it was done with best of intentions, he wasn't fixing matches to get rich. Still wrong but the punishment needs to be proportional.
Punish him monetarily for the incident? Yes
Suspend him from a season of GSL? Reasonable
Cast him out of the SC2 scene forever and destroy his career? Seriously, wtf.
|
On November 16 2011 02:38 Condor Hero wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 02:33 MrTortoise wrote:On November 16 2011 02:30 Condor Hero wrote:On November 16 2011 02:08 Emma Watson wrote:
Extremely disappointed in Boxer. As the wise mentor of team Slayers you would expect him to be strict, but also to be lenient and forgiving. Handing out such harsh punishment to a kid like Coca....I don't know, I imagined Boxer to be a White-Ra/Gandalf-like person who takes the context of Coca's actions into account and judges accordingly.
Boxer's reaction to this whole thing was equivalent to a overly eager dad who catches his son stealing a candybar and proceeds to beat the shit out of him, so the other parents don't think he is a bad father.
I am a social worker myself and let me tell you this: Kids make mistakes, your job as an adult is make sure that they learn from it by giving them second chances. And lets be clear: Coca's actions were well-intentioned, but he chose the wrong way to go about it.
What the fuck are you talking about? Do you have any idea what Boxer and other people gave up for progaming to be a legitimate career? Esports was sold on the passion of the players and fans. Nobody gives a shit that Coca is a "kid." He's a progamer on Slayers so he should be counted on to be professional. aww did your parents and teachers give you a hard time? the point is that kids are not able to undesrtand the consequences of their actions - in fact a lot of adults cant either (which is fueling some interesting legal debates). As such punishment that could seriously damage their improvement and progression does nobody any favors. What if one of these kids coul dof been the next boxer ... but did something stupid and met the anger of all othe other people out there that are pissed off at life and want to see someone crucified to make them feel better? He's not asked to make a life decision. In that specific instance he was a professional gamer competing in a professional competition (small and minor maybe, but still organized). Exactly what part of that do you think is confusing? Think about competition. How is anyone supposed to watch SC2 if they have to be suspicious anytime teammates or friends are playing each other? For this reason, I got no problem with people being cheesy as fuck because as a spectator I want to watch two players try everything they possibly can to win. That's the entire purpose of any tournament. Btw Coca probably accepted his punishment voluntarily. If not he can just leave Slayers and still compete in GSL on his own.
Well actually EVERY decision is a life decision.
I agree with the punishment but i just dont think it shuold kill his career because he is a dumbass briefly.
17/18 is still a kid tbh.
|
people are overreacting to this. their career did not end. they can easily come back next season. move along now kids
|
On November 16 2011 02:44 TheToast wrote:
I'm with the people in this thread that thinks this is a complete overreation. One stupid thing should not be able to end your career forever. It was a small tournament (not saying this makes it right, but certainly less severe) and it was done with best of intentions, he wasn't fixing matches to get rich. Still wrong but the punishment needs to be proportional.
Punish him monetarily for the incident? Yes
Suspend him from a season of GSL? Reasonable
Cast him out of the SC2 scene forever and destroy his career? Seriously, wtf.
^ My thoughts exactly. His intentions needs to be taken into account here.
|
On November 16 2011 02:43 rotegirte wrote:
I really, really don't know what all the buzz is about. It's not like they are perma-banned from SC2. So what is the fucking deal? MMA got out of Code S and back again, to the very top. That is the material a player should be. A 2-month ban at the end of the year isn't really breaking someone's back. And if it does, it leaves to wonder if that person was ready for it anyway. Growing comes with pains.
Agreed. Although I choked when I misread the last word of your last sentence (if you get what I mean lol)
|
These guys are only young, you cant expect them act like adults at their age man.. Also I think the severity of their punishments are very harsh but I guess the korean teams REALLY care about this match fixing idea, even if it wasnt pre-meditated.
|
On November 16 2011 02:44 TheToast wrote:
I'm with the people in this thread that thinks this is a complete overreation. One stupid thing should not be able to end your career forever. It was a small tournament (not saying this makes it right, but certainly less severe) and it was done with best of intentions, he wasn't fixing matches to get rich. Still wrong but the punishment needs to be proportional.
Punish him monetarily for the incident? Yes
Suspend him from a season of GSL? Reasonable
Cast him out of the SC2 scene forever and destroy his career? Seriously, wtf.
What? He's free to requalfiy through Code B. Where's the destroyed career?
|
jeez it's nice he wanted to help his friend but still it's wrong
|
CoCa probably didn't even think too much about it, I mean, they discussed this in the open chat ffs, it's not like they are retards(as some are trying to imply with their "brain fart" talk) thinking that no one is gonna understand what they are saying or something along the lines, more like they didn't think it was that big of a deal to do that stuff, if I was CoCa I'd leave Slayers with my head held high and keep my Code S spot since I was just trying to help a friend gaining absolutely no benefits from it.
|
So when Idra leaves a game he's gonna win it's ok but here it's totally wrong?
I'm confused LOL
|
End result for code S group:
MVP shrugs
Jjakji and Gumiho cheer as now they only need face each other for the 2nd pass to Ro8.
Funny how the easiest way to stay in code S ends up being in MVP's group
|
On November 16 2011 02:44 TheToast wrote:
I'm with the people in this thread that thinks this is a complete overreation. One stupid thing should not be able to end your career forever. It was a small tournament (not saying this makes it right, but certainly less severe) and it was done with best of intentions, he wasn't fixing matches to get rich. Still wrong but the punishment needs to be proportional.
Punish him monetarily for the incident? Yes
Suspend him from a season of GSL? Reasonable
Cast him out of the SC2 scene forever and destroy his career? Seriously, wtf.
Speaking of overreacting...
He was not cast out of the SC2 scene forever. He is on the SlayerS B-team and will need to prove to his own team he is ready to perform with the professionalism expected of him. Nothing more, and certainly nothing less.
|
On November 16 2011 02:44 MrTortoise wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 02:38 Condor Hero wrote:On November 16 2011 02:33 MrTortoise wrote:On November 16 2011 02:30 Condor Hero wrote:On November 16 2011 02:08 Emma Watson wrote:
Extremely disappointed in Boxer. As the wise mentor of team Slayers you would expect him to be strict, but also to be lenient and forgiving. Handing out such harsh punishment to a kid like Coca....I don't know, I imagined Boxer to be a White-Ra/Gandalf-like person who takes the context of Coca's actions into account and judges accordingly.
Boxer's reaction to this whole thing was equivalent to a overly eager dad who catches his son stealing a candybar and proceeds to beat the shit out of him, so the other parents don't think he is a bad father.
I am a social worker myself and let me tell you this: Kids make mistakes, your job as an adult is make sure that they learn from it by giving them second chances. And lets be clear: Coca's actions were well-intentioned, but he chose the wrong way to go about it.
What the fuck are you talking about? Do you have any idea what Boxer and other people gave up for progaming to be a legitimate career? Esports was sold on the passion of the players and fans. Nobody gives a shit that Coca is a "kid." He's a progamer on Slayers so he should be counted on to be professional. aww did your parents and teachers give you a hard time? the point is that kids are not able to undesrtand the consequences of their actions - in fact a lot of adults cant either (which is fueling some interesting legal debates). As such punishment that could seriously damage their improvement and progression does nobody any favors. What if one of these kids coul dof been the next boxer ... but did something stupid and met the anger of all othe other people out there that are pissed off at life and want to see someone crucified to make them feel better? He's not asked to make a life decision. In that specific instance he was a professional gamer competing in a professional competition (small and minor maybe, but still organized). Exactly what part of that do you think is confusing? Think about competition. How is anyone supposed to watch SC2 if they have to be suspicious anytime teammates or friends are playing each other? For this reason, I got no problem with people being cheesy as fuck because as a spectator I want to watch two players try everything they possibly can to win. That's the entire purpose of any tournament. Btw Coca probably accepted his punishment voluntarily. If not he can just leave Slayers and still compete in GSL on his own. Well actually EVERY decision is a life decision. I agree with the punishment but i just dont think it shuold kill his career because he is a dumbass briefly. 17/18 is still a kid tbh.
His punishment will not kill his career.
The only thing he gave up was his Code S spot (which is less valuable than before, but still hard to get into Code A).
Boxer is basically making sure the fans know that Coca is being punished but he's got a free pass to come back when the team thinks he's ready (likely a few months after the angry people calm down).
|
On November 16 2011 02:35 Grettin wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 02:17 S_SienZ wrote:On November 16 2011 02:11 Grettin wrote:On November 16 2011 02:08 UnholyRai wrote:
what is with everyone over reacting to EVERYTHING on this site?
Remember stephano and that russian terran (can't remember his name) from a recent tournament, where the winner was to play Sen in the next round and they both attempted to throw the game by playing absolutely awfully?
No one gave a shit about that But they should have. Assembly rules CLEARLY stated that it is prohibited, yet nothing happened. Stephano v Brat_OK (I think?) was completely different. The most tournaments can do to try to avoid situations like these is via the seeding process, where the winner of Group A will meet the runner-up of Group B, hence giving "winning" the group some meaning and incentivise players to play their best. But humans underperform, and that's when you get weird situations where the winner would have to play a tougher opponent. It's more of an exception to the rule really, rarely happens statistically. There's simply no elegant way of ensuring that teams play their best. There's no standard way to go about testing such things. First of all, i'm not trying to compare Stephano vs Brat_ok match to this incident or anything. I'm just saying that the rules clearly said that it is prohibited what they did and thus Assembly referees did piss poor job not following their own rule. And i'm not actually sure, but i hope you aren't implying that these two players "underperformed" and thus played "awfully". They played awfully because they would get better/easier opponent if they lose. Simple as that. e. I'm talking about this particular match, nothing else.
No. I was saying that in the case of Assembly, Sen underperformed and got 2nd place in his group, which caused an odd situation where no one (Stephano and Brat_OK) wanted to win the adjacent group to avoid him.
|
On November 16 2011 02:49 Condor Hero wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 02:44 MrTortoise wrote:On November 16 2011 02:38 Condor Hero wrote:On November 16 2011 02:33 MrTortoise wrote:On November 16 2011 02:30 Condor Hero wrote:On November 16 2011 02:08 Emma Watson wrote:
Extremely disappointed in Boxer. As the wise mentor of team Slayers you would expect him to be strict, but also to be lenient and forgiving. Handing out such harsh punishment to a kid like Coca....I don't know, I imagined Boxer to be a White-Ra/Gandalf-like person who takes the context of Coca's actions into account and judges accordingly.
Boxer's reaction to this whole thing was equivalent to a overly eager dad who catches his son stealing a candybar and proceeds to beat the shit out of him, so the other parents don't think he is a bad father.
I am a social worker myself and let me tell you this: Kids make mistakes, your job as an adult is make sure that they learn from it by giving them second chances. And lets be clear: Coca's actions were well-intentioned, but he chose the wrong way to go about it.
What the fuck are you talking about? Do you have any idea what Boxer and other people gave up for progaming to be a legitimate career? Esports was sold on the passion of the players and fans. Nobody gives a shit that Coca is a "kid." He's a progamer on Slayers so he should be counted on to be professional. aww did your parents and teachers give you a hard time? the point is that kids are not able to undesrtand the consequences of their actions - in fact a lot of adults cant either (which is fueling some interesting legal debates). As such punishment that could seriously damage their improvement and progression does nobody any favors. What if one of these kids coul dof been the next boxer ... but did something stupid and met the anger of all othe other people out there that are pissed off at life and want to see someone crucified to make them feel better? He's not asked to make a life decision. In that specific instance he was a professional gamer competing in a professional competition (small and minor maybe, but still organized). Exactly what part of that do you think is confusing? Think about competition. How is anyone supposed to watch SC2 if they have to be suspicious anytime teammates or friends are playing each other? For this reason, I got no problem with people being cheesy as fuck because as a spectator I want to watch two players try everything they possibly can to win. That's the entire purpose of any tournament. Btw Coca probably accepted his punishment voluntarily. If not he can just leave Slayers and still compete in GSL on his own. Well actually EVERY decision is a life decision. I agree with the punishment but i just dont think it shuold kill his career because he is a dumbass briefly. 17/18 is still a kid tbh. His punishment will not kill his career. The only thing he gave up was his Code S spot (which is less valuable than before, but still hard to get into Code A). Boxer is basically making sure the fans know that Coca is being punished but he's got a free pass to come back when the team thinks he's ready (likely a few months after the angry people calm down). I see more people angry at the harsh punishment than the other way around.
|
On November 16 2011 02:30 MrTortoise wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 02:25 blamekilly wrote:On November 16 2011 02:08 Emma Watson wrote:
Extremely disappointed in Boxer. As the wise mentor of team Slayers you would expect him to be strict, but also to be lenient and forgiving. Handing out such harsh punishment to a kid like Coca....I don't know, I imagined Boxer to be a White-Ra/Gandalf-like person who takes the context of Coca's actions into account and judges accordingly.
Boxer's reaction to this whole thing was equivalent to a overly eager dad who catches his son stealing a candybar and proceeds to beat the shit out of him, so the other parents don't think he is a bad father.
I am a social worker myself and let me tell you this: Kids make mistakes, your job as an adult is make sure that they learn from it by giving them second chances. And lets be clear: Coca's actions were well-intentioned, but he chose the wrong way to go about it.
You're comparing suspension from online/offline game competition to physically beating a child? What Coca did was wrong, he knows it and accepts his punishment. no hes talking about the psychology ,... your being hyperbolic. Also you are implying the father does not know it was wrong yet have no way to make that infrence from what was said. That is one of those moment where when something makes no sense to you ... step back ... breath ... let the nerd rage die down and figure out how to make sense of it. the context of his actions btw are ... he talks about throwing a game publicly in the game and then it happens. I cannot see anything worse happening politically except boxer turning around and saying 'its no big deal, cant we all get along?'
Yes but what Slayers did to Coca is not the same as punishing a kid for stealing by beating him. It's more like punishing a kid for stealing candy by not letting him eat candy for a couple weeks.
|
On November 16 2011 02:46 Oktyabr wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 02:44 TheToast wrote:
I'm with the people in this thread that thinks this is a complete overreation. One stupid thing should not be able to end your career forever. It was a small tournament (not saying this makes it right, but certainly less severe) and it was done with best of intentions, he wasn't fixing matches to get rich. Still wrong but the punishment needs to be proportional.
Punish him monetarily for the incident? Yes
Suspend him from a season of GSL? Reasonable
Cast him out of the SC2 scene forever and destroy his career? Seriously, wtf.
What? He's free to requalfiy through Code B. Where's the destroyed career?
Furthermore, he no longer is part of Slayers A team and will practice out of the Slayers house.
Coca won't participate in any tournament, offline or online, until Slayers team decides his "mentality" as a pro is ready for
Maybe not destroyed, but by the time he is allowed to come back (likely after everyone forgets about this in 6 months to a year) I forsee him being drastically out of practice.
Not to mention he will have this stigma with him for a long time, my guess is that many smaller Korean tournaments will not be extending invites to him.
His career is maybe not destroyed, but it has been heavily damaged.
|
On November 16 2011 02:50 S_SienZ wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 02:35 Grettin wrote:On November 16 2011 02:17 S_SienZ wrote:On November 16 2011 02:11 Grettin wrote:On November 16 2011 02:08 UnholyRai wrote:
what is with everyone over reacting to EVERYTHING on this site?
Remember stephano and that russian terran (can't remember his name) from a recent tournament, where the winner was to play Sen in the next round and they both attempted to throw the game by playing absolutely awfully?
No one gave a shit about that But they should have. Assembly rules CLEARLY stated that it is prohibited, yet nothing happened. Stephano v Brat_OK (I think?) was completely different. The most tournaments can do to try to avoid situations like these is via the seeding process, where the winner of Group A will meet the runner-up of Group B, hence giving "winning" the group some meaning and incentivise players to play their best. But humans underperform, and that's when you get weird situations where the winner would have to play a tougher opponent. It's more of an exception to the rule really, rarely happens statistically. There's simply no elegant way of ensuring that teams play their best. There's no standard way to go about testing such things. First of all, i'm not trying to compare Stephano vs Brat_ok match to this incident or anything. I'm just saying that the rules clearly said that it is prohibited what they did and thus Assembly referees did piss poor job not following their own rule. And i'm not actually sure, but i hope you aren't implying that these two players "underperformed" and thus played "awfully". They played awfully because they would get better/easier opponent if they lose. Simple as that. e. I'm talking about this particular match, nothing else. No. I was saying that in the case of Assembly, Sen underperformed and got 2nd place in his group, which caused an odd situation where no one (Stephano and Brat_OK) wanted to win the adjacent group to avoid him.
Alright, thanks for clarifying.
|
The punishment seems a bit harsh, but a punishment should definitely be dealt. That's just not something you do when you're playing for the entertainment of the viewers. The reason Starcraft players get paid and have tourneys with huge prize pools is because people want to see them play. Forfeiting a game or not playing seriously means you're not doing your job and you don't deserve to get paid. Now whether or not ruining this tournament justifies giving up a Code S spot is arguable. I don't think a punishment that hinders a players growth and potential is a good idea.
|
On November 16 2011 02:51 ftd.rain wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 02:49 Condor Hero wrote:On November 16 2011 02:44 MrTortoise wrote:On November 16 2011 02:38 Condor Hero wrote:On November 16 2011 02:33 MrTortoise wrote:On November 16 2011 02:30 Condor Hero wrote:On November 16 2011 02:08 Emma Watson wrote:
Extremely disappointed in Boxer. As the wise mentor of team Slayers you would expect him to be strict, but also to be lenient and forgiving. Handing out such harsh punishment to a kid like Coca....I don't know, I imagined Boxer to be a White-Ra/Gandalf-like person who takes the context of Coca's actions into account and judges accordingly.
Boxer's reaction to this whole thing was equivalent to a overly eager dad who catches his son stealing a candybar and proceeds to beat the shit out of him, so the other parents don't think he is a bad father.
I am a social worker myself and let me tell you this: Kids make mistakes, your job as an adult is make sure that they learn from it by giving them second chances. And lets be clear: Coca's actions were well-intentioned, but he chose the wrong way to go about it.
What the fuck are you talking about? Do you have any idea what Boxer and other people gave up for progaming to be a legitimate career? Esports was sold on the passion of the players and fans. Nobody gives a shit that Coca is a "kid." He's a progamer on Slayers so he should be counted on to be professional. aww did your parents and teachers give you a hard time? the point is that kids are not able to undesrtand the consequences of their actions - in fact a lot of adults cant either (which is fueling some interesting legal debates). As such punishment that could seriously damage their improvement and progression does nobody any favors. What if one of these kids coul dof been the next boxer ... but did something stupid and met the anger of all othe other people out there that are pissed off at life and want to see someone crucified to make them feel better? He's not asked to make a life decision. In that specific instance he was a professional gamer competing in a professional competition (small and minor maybe, but still organized). Exactly what part of that do you think is confusing? Think about competition. How is anyone supposed to watch SC2 if they have to be suspicious anytime teammates or friends are playing each other? For this reason, I got no problem with people being cheesy as fuck because as a spectator I want to watch two players try everything they possibly can to win. That's the entire purpose of any tournament. Btw Coca probably accepted his punishment voluntarily. If not he can just leave Slayers and still compete in GSL on his own. Well actually EVERY decision is a life decision. I agree with the punishment but i just dont think it shuold kill his career because he is a dumbass briefly. 17/18 is still a kid tbh. His punishment will not kill his career. The only thing he gave up was his Code S spot (which is less valuable than before, but still hard to get into Code A). Boxer is basically making sure the fans know that Coca is being punished but he's got a free pass to come back when the team thinks he's ready (likely a few months after the angry people calm down). I see more people angry at the harsh punishment than the other way around.
No offense but most of these people are new SC2 people who got no idea what they're talking about, including you.
Your argument that "he was JUST trying to help a friend" is pure garbage.
The point of a competition is to show your skill and try your best to win.
Coca treated it like a joke and despite how he had nothing to gain it is still match-fixing.
Any hint of match-fixing in Korea esports will bring down the hammer so don't be surprised.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
