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VPCursed
1044 Posts
On November 16 2011 02:11 Grettin wrote: But they should have. Assembly rules CLEARLY stated that it is prohibited, yet nothing happened. hey. its the double standard.. dont fuck it up bro | ||
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MeriaDoKk
Chile1726 Posts
On November 16 2011 01:20 DiMano wrote: Look at number of forfeits in Korean Weeklies teammates just don't appear. GuMiho vs Sirius in Finals №3 as an example At least they could do it in a more smart way. | ||
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Shadow_Dog
Canada427 Posts
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figq
12519 Posts
But since at the moment there wasn't even a secure Code A slot at stake (still negotiating how and if to fit with the new GSL format, check Mr. Chae's statement), the GSL and the teams should not have involved themselves in the matter with such extreme measures. Especially not throwing away Coca's Code S spot. I actually plead to ESV if by now they feel redeemed for the damage done to them, to kindly ask SlayerS to rethink their reaction towards Coca. I'm fairly certain both players did not intend to disrespect the tournament, and after today they've already learned their lesson to not stir such kind of unnecessary drama again. (next time when you are too busy with scheduling, just announce forfeit, like many have done) | ||
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S_SienZ
1878 Posts
On November 16 2011 02:11 Grettin wrote: But they should have. Assembly rules CLEARLY stated that it is prohibited, yet nothing happened. Stephano v Brat_OK (I think?) was completely different. The most tournaments can do to try to avoid situations like these is via the seeding process, where the winner of Group A will meet the runner-up of Group B, hence giving "winning" the group some meaning and incentivise players to play their best. But humans underperform, and that's when you get weird situations where the winner would have to play a tougher opponent. It's more of an exception to the rule really, rarely happens statistically. There's simply no elegant way of ensuring that teams play their best. There's no standard way to go about testing such things. | ||
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blamekilly
466 Posts
On November 16 2011 02:08 Emma Watson wrote: Extremely disappointed in Boxer. As the wise mentor of team Slayers you would expect him to be strict, but also to be lenient and forgiving. Handing out such harsh punishment to a kid like Coca....I don't know, I imagined Boxer to be a White-Ra/Gandalf-like person who takes the context of Coca's actions into account and judges accordingly. Boxer's reaction to this whole thing was equivalent to a overly eager dad who catches his son stealing a candybar and proceeds to beat the shit out of him, so the other parents don't think he is a bad father. I am a social worker myself and let me tell you this: Kids make mistakes, your job as an adult is make sure that they learn from it by giving them second chances. And lets be clear: Coca's actions were well-intentioned, but he chose the wrong way to go about it. You're comparing suspension from online/offline game competition to physically beating a child? What Coca did was wrong, he knows it and accepts his punishment. | ||
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windsupernova
Mexico5280 Posts
On November 16 2011 01:53 Zocat wrote: Following your style: Should they be punished for the total lack of respect to the competition? yes. Is the punishment over the line? yes. Ummm, I didn't say I agreed with the punishment. Did you even read my post? I even said it may have been too harsh, but the teams decided otherwise | ||
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ETisME
12493 Posts
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Condor Hero
United States2931 Posts
On November 16 2011 02:08 Emma Watson wrote: Extremely disappointed in Boxer. As the wise mentor of team Slayers you would expect him to be strict, but also to be lenient and forgiving. Handing out such harsh punishment to a kid like Coca....I don't know, I imagined Boxer to be a White-Ra/Gandalf-like person who takes the context of Coca's actions into account and judges accordingly. Boxer's reaction to this whole thing was equivalent to a overly eager dad who catches his son stealing a candybar and proceeds to beat the shit out of him, so the other parents don't think he is a bad father. I am a social worker myself and let me tell you this: Kids make mistakes, your job as an adult is make sure that they learn from it by giving them second chances. And lets be clear: Coca's actions were well-intentioned, but he chose the wrong way to go about it. What the fuck are you talking about? Do you have any idea what Boxer and other people gave up for progaming to be a legitimate career? Esports was sold on the passion of the players and fans. Nobody gives a shit that Coca is a "kid." He's a progamer on Slayers so he should be counted on to be professional. | ||
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MrTortoise
1388 Posts
On November 16 2011 02:25 blamekilly wrote: You're comparing suspension from online/offline game competition to physically beating a child? What Coca did was wrong, he knows it and accepts his punishment. no hes talking about the psychology ,... your being hyperbolic. Also you are implying the father does not know it was wrong yet have no way to make that infrence from what was said. That is one of those moment where when something makes no sense to you ... step back ... breath ... let the nerd rage die down and figure out how to make sense of it. the context of his actions btw are ... he talks about throwing a game publicly in the game and then it happens. I cannot see anything worse happening politically except boxer turning around and saying 'its no big deal, cant we all get along?' | ||
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SaberNodoka
151 Posts
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MrTortoise
1388 Posts
On November 16 2011 02:30 Condor Hero wrote: What the fuck are you talking about? Do you have any idea what Boxer and other people gave up for progaming to be a legitimate career? Esports was sold on the passion of the players and fans. Nobody gives a shit that Coca is a "kid." He's a progamer on Slayers so he should be counted on to be professional. aww did your parents and teachers give you a hard time? the point is that kids are not able to undesrtand the consequences of their actions - in fact a lot of adults cant either (which is fueling some interesting legal debates). As such punishment that could seriously damage their improvement and progression does nobody any favors. What if one of these kids coul dof been the next boxer ... but did something stupid and met the anger of all othe other people out there that are pissed off at life and want to see someone crucified to make them feel better? | ||
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Frankon
3054 Posts
On November 16 2011 02:15 figq wrote: IMO, the proper measure was just the Korean Weekly to ban Coca and Byun until January (which is exactly what they did - and big props to Diamond for not overreacting -- he's The Man), and that's enough. The two young players in poor judgement showed some disrespect to this growing tournament. They should get their punishment from the tournament itself. But since at the moment there wasn't even a secure Code A slot at stake (still negotiating how and if to fit with the new GSL format, check Mr. Chae's statement), the GSL and the teams should not have involved themselves in the matter with such extreme measures. Especially not throwing away Coca's Code S spot. I actually plead to ESV if by now they feel redeemed for the damage done to them, to kindly ask SlayerS to rethink their reaction towards Coca. I'm fairly certain both players did not intend to disrespect the tournament, and after today they've already learned their lesson to not stir such kind of unnecessary drama again. (next time when you are too busy with scheduling, just announce forfeit, like many have done) Slayers reaction was correct. They did it for team integrity. They shown a clear message bot to the community and the sponsors - We always play fair and to the best of our abilities no mater what tournament we play. We also dont cheat.. Coca have been demoted to the team B (only team A stays in the team house) so leaving team house was a given. I think in the beginning of next year Coca would be allowed to redeem himself and will be allowed to play in some tournament - maybe even ESV to get back into team A and back into code A/S (dunno if he would be dropped into code B after this season) | ||
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Grettin
42381 Posts
On November 16 2011 02:17 S_SienZ wrote: Stephano v Brat_OK (I think?) was completely different. The most tournaments can do to try to avoid situations like these is via the seeding process, where the winner of Group A will meet the runner-up of Group B, hence giving "winning" the group some meaning and incentivise players to play their best. But humans underperform, and that's when you get weird situations where the winner would have to play a tougher opponent. It's more of an exception to the rule really, rarely happens statistically. There's simply no elegant way of ensuring that teams play their best. There's no standard way to go about testing such things. First of all, i'm not trying to compare Stephano vs Brat_ok match to this incident or anything. I'm just saying that the rules clearly said that it is prohibited what they did and thus Assembly referees did piss poor job not following their own rule. And i'm not actually sure, but i hope you aren't implying that these two players "underperformed" and thus played "awfully". They played awfully because they would get better/easier opponent if they lose. Simple as that. e. I'm talking about this particular match, nothing else. | ||
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windsupernova
Mexico5280 Posts
On November 16 2011 02:08 Emma Watson wrote: Extremely disappointed in Boxer. As the wise mentor of team Slayers you would expect him to be strict, but also to be lenient and forgiving. Handing out such harsh punishment to a kid like Coca....I don't know, I imagined Boxer to be a White-Ra/Gandalf-like person who takes the context of Coca's actions into account and judges accordingly. Boxer's reaction to this whole thing was equivalent to a overly eager dad who catches his son stealing a candybar and proceeds to beat the shit out of him, so the other parents don't think he is a bad father. I am a social worker myself and let me tell you this: Kids make mistakes, your job as an adult is make sure that they learn from it by giving them second chances. And lets be clear: Coca's actions were well-intentioned, but he chose the wrong way to go about it. First of all, both of those guys are 17 and 18. So they know the consequence of their actions. Second of all why are you even comparing beating a kid to banning them temporarily from a competition ? If anything your analogy is more akin to the dad grounding his son for a month and lot letting him go to that sweet party next week, which may be an overreaction but not an unreasonable harsh punishment. 3rd, Boxer is not their dad. 4th I find it weird how you mention Gandalf who was extremely harsh on the Hobbitsess when they made stupid crap XD. Oh and they are getting their 2nd chance.. after their punishment is over. They are not permabanned from anything. | ||
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tMomiji
United States1115 Posts
Good luck to both Coca and Byun in the future. | ||
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Condor Hero
United States2931 Posts
On November 16 2011 02:33 MrTortoise wrote: aww did your parents and teachers give you a hard time? the point is that kids are not able to undesrtand the consequences of their actions - in fact a lot of adults cant either (which is fueling some interesting legal debates). As such punishment that could seriously damage their improvement and progression does nobody any favors. What if one of these kids coul dof been the next boxer ... but did something stupid and met the anger of all othe other people out there that are pissed off at life and want to see someone crucified to make them feel better? He's not asked to make a life decision. In that specific instance he was a professional gamer competing in a professional competition (small and minor maybe, but still organized). Exactly what part of that do you think is confusing? Think about competition. How is anyone supposed to watch SC2 if they have to be suspicious anytime teammates or friends are playing each other? For this reason, I got no problem with people being cheesy as fuck because as a spectator I want to watch two players try everything they possibly can to win. That's the entire purpose of any tournament. Btw Coca probably accepted his punishment voluntarily. If not he can just leave Slayers and still compete in GSL on his own. | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States44933 Posts
On November 16 2011 02:08 UnholyRai wrote: what is with everyone over reacting to EVERYTHING on this site? Remember stephano and that russian terran (can't remember his name) from a recent tournament, where the winner was to play Sen in the next round and they both attempted to throw the game by playing absolutely awfully? No one gave a shit about that This is basically no different, Calm the fuck down. Coca had nothing to gain from winning, so he lost. Can't anyone just counter-argue your extremely hyperbolic post by saying (an equally exaggerated) "What is with everyone not giving a damn about the integrity of StarCraft, tournaments, professional careers, sportsmanship, and respect for all the time, effort, and hard work that pro-gamers put in, all the while they pretend they care by posting on TeamLiquid?" Surely, you'd disagree with that, right? If Coca had nothing to gain, he didn't have to play. That's much different than cheating, throwing a match on purpose, and providing an unfair advantage for a friend, which screws over everyone else in the tournament. The fact that you're pointing out that other people haven't been held accountable for cheating in the past doesn't validate this example of cheating. You couldn't be more backwards in your thinking. | ||
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windsupernova
Mexico5280 Posts
On November 16 2011 02:33 MrTortoise wrote: aww did your parents and teachers give you a hard time? the point is that kids are not able to undesrtand the consequences of their actions - in fact a lot of adults cant either (which is fueling some interesting legal debates). As such punishment that could seriously damage their improvement and progression does nobody any favors. What if one of these kids coul dof been the next boxer ... but did something stupid and met the anger of all othe other people out there that are pissed off at life and want to see someone crucified to make them feel better? Whats with the smugness in your post? Those kids are 17 and 18. And how do you teach people that there are consequences to their actions? By making them live through the consequences. And how this is hampering their improvement? They didn't get kicked out of their teams, only a few unreasonable humans are the ones wanting to see them crucified(see the posts that say the punishment was not enough) If anything it seems you are the one angry at life here lol. Jessica, boxer and gerard are not their parents, they are the team managers, they have to respond to their sponsors and to their fans, if one of the members of their team act in a way to embarass their organizations they have all the right in the world to punish them. Punishment may be harsh, but crucifying? Not really | ||
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rotegirte
Germany2859 Posts
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