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On November 16 2011 00:55 eYeball wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 00:08 fleeze wrote:On November 15 2011 23:52 Xalorian wrote:On November 15 2011 23:29 Asha` wrote:On November 15 2011 23:25 Xalorian wrote:On November 15 2011 23:18 Msr wrote:
why does anybody care if a player does this... If a player wants to throw a match that is their own decision. So he can bet all is money against himself and throw the game...? Seems right. This is not a little fun game or event match, it's a qualifier. There was money on the line. What about all those peoples that got eliminated by CoCa that could probably have won this thing otherwise? WHY IN THE HELL would you subscribe to a tournament if you would just throw it up if you were playing against a mate? What if all team start doing that? It's just not fair for the others. It's not a qualifier. No one else got eliminated by Coca. It was the first round of the tournament. There's no money for anyone outside the top 4. I didn't know that it was the first round. My points are still valid. There was money on the line in the end, and it was a qualifier : if i'm not mistaken, there is a code A spot. (Turn out that there was no coda A spot on the line either, my bad. I can't read Korean ><') And no matter what, it is still not fair. Coca would not have done that for a random guy. I do think that the punishement is too harsh, but a punishement is needed. They are professional, they just can't do that at all, no matter what. It's just silly. Edit : It was indeed blatant match fixing. It's worse than I thought. Look like it was planned. "1:00 C: i'll let you win B: fuck off. 3:48 B: fuck, you said you'll let me win C: I have to practice, there's 3 Ts in my group ... C: I'm here just because I don't have other Ts to practice B: Next opponent is P, so just forfeit B: Where's your teams T? C: G-star event 26:20, Coca at 150pop 4 mining bases to Byun's 45pop 0 mining base B: fuck, get out, fuck fuck C: I forfeit B: let's do game 3 too C: gg *leaves the game" WTF are you talking about? where is this match fixing? and where is it planned? It seems like Slayers left Coca alone while he had to prepare for his next GSL Code S matches in a group with 3 terrans. Obviously he had no terran training partner in house and maybe he is not allowed to practise with other teams members or byun is not allowed to practise with him (i dunno about this, just speculating). So he wanted a 3rd game to at least get some more practise against high level terrans, this is also why he didn't care to advance and play a protoss. IMHO this totally understandable AND professional (to prepare for GSL). who the fuck cares about a first round of some random tourney with low prizes. it also puts SlayerS in a bad spot if they don't support Coca with a good training partner before his Code S matches. they should have plenty of good terrans to train with him... Haha random tourmanent with low prizes? You think it's easy to get to a code a spot? People like you can really make the blood boil...
Don't let your lack of knowledge about a given subject keep you from raging about shit you don't know about. At least it's entertaining to the rest of us.
There is no Code A spot from ESV weeklies.
It was a random tournament. For around 100$. I'd even say your claim about the code a spots being hard to come by is untrue as well but that's personal opinion I guess.
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Who the hell is slayers to interdict a skill player like coca to not play and stuff, he can just ditch their asses and make money, there 10000 teams there anyways, he can do what he wants as long as he has skill, fuck off slayers, stop bashing coca.
User was warned for this post
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On November 16 2011 01:23 Nightmer09 wrote:
Who the hell is slayers to interdict a skill player like coca to not play and stuff, he can just ditch their asses and make money, there 10000 teams there anyways, he can do what he wants as long as he has skill, fuck off slayers, stop bashing coca.
Contracts? When joining and signing up for a team you should have a fairly good idea about what their philosophy about stuff is and if he didnt feel that he did something slightly wrong Im sure he will just do what you think he should do, leave.
Dont hate on Slayers for wanting to keep up face.
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I don't understand the reaction that some people don't think this is match fixing.
Were the players friends?
Sure.
Was there a bit of joking around?
No doubt.
Was this a highly premeditated act to deceive the public?
Obviously not.
Did 2 players collaborate so one intentionally loses for the other to advance in a tournament setting?
YES. This is the only relevant case in the matter. This is match fixing.
They did something incredibly stupid, got caught, and will now be paying the price. It's a heavy price to pay, but live and learn.
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On November 16 2011 01:09 Zeetee wrote:wait.. what the hell? didn't some guy do the same thing for white-ra at an MLG one time? (white-ra showed up late so he lost the first 2 sets or something, so the guy just worker rushed/gg'd until the score was even). i understand that there's some differences (coca was in a winning position before giving away the free win, while white-ras opponent just gave it away at the beginning), but its still amazing to me that people will flip out over this while white-ras opponent was praised for throwing games.... liquipedia source + Show Spoiler +On July 22 2011, Slasher of MLG announced that White-Ra would appear at MLG Anaheim in the open bracket along with players Jinro and LastShadow.[4] White-Ra was disqualified in his match against Gimix because he did not make it to the game in time, but he managed to fight his way through the loser's bracket to secure him a slot in the Championship Bracket where he was stopped by SeleCT. During his path to the Championship Bracket, he once again faced Gimix, and due to his previous disqualification and MLG's extended series rule, Gimix had a 2 - 0 lead on White-Ra. Knowing that the disqualification was not "right", Gimix worker rushed the first two games so that the series would be 2 - 2, and thus be a normal best of three.
Completely different situation.
The MLG incident was an excellent display of fair play and sportsmanship, while this incident undermines the legitimacy and integrity of the tournament it was played in and went against the competitive spirit of the game.
A much better comparison would've been the EG ESCW situation (which was terrible as well, imo).
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I'm sad for everyone involved here 
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On November 16 2011 01:23 Nightmer09 wrote:
Who the hell is slayers to interdict a skill player like coca to not play and stuff, he can just ditch their asses and make money, there 10000 teams there anyways, he can do what he wants as long as he has skill, fuck off slayers, stop bashing coca.
Who the hell is SlayerS? They're his employer, that's who they are. As long as he is under contract with SlayerS and they're paying him salary (whether in money or by covering his living costs) they damn well have the right to punish him for this.
Of course he can break the contract, move out of the house and try his luck elsewhere, but I don't know if a kid like him has the money to settle the lawsuit that would undoubtedly follow.
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On November 16 2011 00:26 Sandermatt wrote:
He just didn't take the nationally televisedtournament serious, but participated only to get practice games that he should have already had with his Terran team mates. Dropping game 2 allowed him to have 1 additional practice game during a nationally televised international tournament. I think it is too harsh. By the way he was also accused of cursing, but as I see it only Byun cursed.
I fixed that for you. I hope that their disciplinary actions make them and aspiring pros realise they're not in "LAN shop" Kansas any more (Wizard of Oz).
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On November 16 2011 01:23 Nightmer09 wrote:
Who the hell is slayers to interdict a skill player like coca to not play and stuff, he can just ditch their asses and make money, there 10000 teams there anyways, he can do what he wants as long as he has skill, fuck off slayers, stop bashing coca.
So much Western entitlement.
You know what progamer stands for?
Professional gamer.
What part of Coca and Byun's conduct was professional?
I don't care if this happens behind the scenes as there's really no way to stop it, but if you're dumb enough to get caught (in game chat, really???) then it's time for a break.
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On November 16 2011 01:23 Nightmer09 wrote:
Who the hell is slayers to interdict a skill player like coca to not play and stuff, he can just ditch their asses and make money, there 10000 teams there anyways, he can do what he wants as long as he has skill, fuck off slayers, stop bashing coca.
I would really love to know how you've managed to decide that in all of this slayers are the bad guys for demoting him to the B team and not allowing him to play in tournaments etc. The blame lies squarely with CoCa.
I kinda want to know what was going through his head though because wow... What a stupid decision to make!
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On November 16 2011 01:28 Bobster wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 01:23 Nightmer09 wrote:
Who the hell is slayers to interdict a skill player like coca to not play and stuff, he can just ditch their asses and make money, there 10000 teams there anyways, he can do what he wants as long as he has skill, fuck off slayers, stop bashing coca. Who the hell is SlayerS? They're his employer, that's who they are. As long as he is under contract with SlayerS and they're paying him salary (whether in money or by covering his living costs) they damn well have the right to punish him for this. Of course he can break the contract, move out of the house and try his luck elsewhere, but I don't know if a kid like him has the money to settle the lawsuit that would undoubtedly follow.
He's still 17 years old. I'm not to familiar with the law in Korea but if it's anything like the states I'm sure he could get off without to much of a problem.
Only thing is would any teams recruit him then?
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On November 16 2011 01:23 Nightmer09 wrote:
Who the hell is slayers to interdict a skill player like coca to not play and stuff, he can just ditch their asses and make money, there 10000 teams there anyways, he can do what he wants as long as he has skill, fuck off slayers, stop bashing coca.
He could ditch their asses and subsequently have no future in any Korean team. That's obviously not what he wants.
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On November 16 2011 01:26 CinnaBuns wrote:
I don't understand the reaction that some people don't think this is match fixing.
Were the players friends?
Sure.
Was there a bit of joking around?
No doubt.
Was this a highly premeditated act to deceive the public?
Obviously not.
Did a player intentionally lose so another could advance in a tournament setting?
YES. This is the only relevant case in the matter. This is match fixing.
They did something incredibly stupid, got caught, and will now be paying the price. It's a heavy price to pay, but live and learn.
I don't think it really is matchfixing because Coca didn't benefit from the situation, he could have just played the games with one hand and let the other guy win, haha. There is no "criminal intent" here, so it's really not that big a deal.
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On November 16 2011 01:28 Bobster wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 01:23 Nightmer09 wrote:
Who the hell is slayers to interdict a skill player like coca to not play and stuff, he can just ditch their asses and make money, there 10000 teams there anyways, he can do what he wants as long as he has skill, fuck off slayers, stop bashing coca. As long as he is under contract with SlayerS and they're paying him salary (whether in money or by covering his living costs) they damn well have the right to. Of course he can break the contract, move out of the house and try his luck, but I don't know if a kid like him has the money to settle the lawsuit that would undoubtedly follow.
To be fair, they already threw him out of the house, so I doubt they are paying for his rent/food anymore.
Non of this matters in this case, since CoCa agreed to everything Slayers have decided, but could they actually have kept him from playing if he didn't agree? That seems odd. So when Idra said fuck you to someone on stream, EG could have forbid him from playing in tournemant for x months?
I didn't know teams had that much power over their players, and with everything I've seen so far it seems unlikely...
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United States7483 Posts
On November 16 2011 01:26 Bobster wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2011 01:09 Zeetee wrote:wait.. what the hell? didn't some guy do the same thing for white-ra at an MLG one time? (white-ra showed up late so he lost the first 2 sets or something, so the guy just worker rushed/gg'd until the score was even). i understand that there's some differences (coca was in a winning position before giving away the free win, while white-ras opponent just gave it away at the beginning), but its still amazing to me that people will flip out over this while white-ras opponent was praised for throwing games.... liquipedia source + Show Spoiler +On July 22 2011, Slasher of MLG announced that White-Ra would appear at MLG Anaheim in the open bracket along with players Jinro and LastShadow.[4] White-Ra was disqualified in his match against Gimix because he did not make it to the game in time, but he managed to fight his way through the loser's bracket to secure him a slot in the Championship Bracket where he was stopped by SeleCT. During his path to the Championship Bracket, he once again faced Gimix, and due to his previous disqualification and MLG's extended series rule, Gimix had a 2 - 0 lead on White-Ra. Knowing that the disqualification was not "right", Gimix worker rushed the first two games so that the series would be 2 - 2, and thus be a normal best of three. Completely different situation. The MLG incident was an excellent display of fair play and sportsmanship, while this incident undermines the legitimacy and integrity of the tournament it was played in and went against the competitive spirit of the game. A much better comparison would've been the EG ESCW situation (which was terrible as well, imo).
Yeah, Gimix was awarded a forfeit win earlier when he did not want to accept it, and was given a 2-0 lead the next time they met due to extended series rules, and he didn't want an unfair advantage. He did it TO have a fair match and to try to beat WhiteRa fair and square. This is quite a bit different.
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fucking slayers let the man play if your gonna treat him like that end his contract or let him play
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Are they really that retarded ? And fuck you Byun, get better instead of cheating -_-
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I think that the ESV tournament system is more to blame than the players. If one player has nothing to lose with the loss of a game, the design is wrong. While Coca and Byan made a bad example for doing it in public, they did so because in this case the loser is the eventual winner (with his intentional loss, Coca was able to assign a Code-A spot at his discretion.)
It is similar to group play. Lets say two friends meet during group stage and one of them cannot get into playoffs regardless. Will he really bring on the table what he got or will he try to let his friend win so that at least he can get into the playoffs?
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WHAT. Not cool, guys. NOT COOL.
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EPT
