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On November 15 2011 15:10 alexhard wrote:
Players throw games all the times. I see tons of people in the thread going "ban them for life for throwing a game". Where were you when idra threw his games in NASL? When Stephano and brat_ok tried to throw their games at Assembly? The list goes on...
Korean scene != Foreigner scene.
Koreans take unprofessional behavior more seriously apparently.Personally I think an apology was the only thing necessary but I can see their reasoning. They want e sports to be seen as a competition that players take seriously, not as some play pretend competition where match fixing is common.
Cultural differences I suppose. But its understandable where they are coming from
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GhostKingPrime got sniped, it's a shame.
Hopefully all the heat cools down soon and they can return and all that good stuff.
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Not to beat a dead horse here, but I think that their openness about it in the in-game chat demonstrates that they didn't really understand the seriousness of the situation.
I'm not saying that what they did was appropriate, or that ignorance is a valid excuse, but if they were actually attempting to fix the match they probably wouldn't have openly talked about it in-game.
I think it was just a couple friends fucking around and not realizing the consequences.
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Ok it was a silly thing to do, and from what I'm reading Coca willingly gave up his code s spot to stay on SlayerS. But still, announcing this to the world =/ I think he must have just got caught up in the battle with Byun, a friend of his. Obviously this brings unfortunate questions into the Korean weekly with Code S players there =/
I do feel bad for Coca. Like a drunk mistake costing him months of hard work (Code S). Since he's flat dropping out, he won't go into Code A Ro24 I imagine? Meaning Code B for Coca? =/
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I can understand the team being harsh with the penalties being handed down. They sign their players up to win games, tournaments and money. This isn't for fun, there is serious money involved in Starcraft II as a whole.
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On November 15 2011 15:12 Diamond wrote:
Ok I have read everything over and it is without a doubt what CoCa and Byun did was 100% wrong. They took away the very spirit the Korean Weekly was built on. While it was created to have a quick, fun tournament for Koreans and inject more money into the scene, it is just that, a tournament, a competition. What CoCa and Byun did was incredibly stupid, and ruins the very foundation the tournament itself is based on (the best player wins).
However I am a man that has made more mistakes in my life then I care to admit. CoCa and Byun are both very young and I in no way feel this was a highly premeditated incident like the Savior incident. They deserve a second chance, but not one without punishment.
Until January 1st, 2012 CoCa and Byun are both suspended from the Korean Weekly. We hope they will use this time to look upon themselves and to make sure this never happens again. Additionally the suspension cannot be lifted without the direct approval of their respective coaches (both the time and approval requirements must be met). I feel this will give them the time they need to work past whatever made them do this. They will also be ineligible for any qualified spots in the next Korean Weekly Finals.
In the meantime I will be looking at alternate formats for the Korean Weekly that will somehow separate Code A and S players from Code B. I do not know what the system is yet, but I will be working on it during our two week break.
I am sorry to everyone.
Respect.
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On November 15 2011 15:14 Diamond wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 15:13 qwazar wrote:
What baffles me is how ESV allowed this to air before sorting it out properly (casted from replays) and where was the referee in all this? Allowing this to happen shows how unprofessional the organization is. No weekly tournament in the planet has refs in every match.
Thanks for handling this properly btw. I think the ban until January 1st and you saying you'd look into different formats for ESV was a good response to this.
It's the team punishments that are ridiculous and a huge overreaction. Your punishment was fair and should have been the only punishment imo.
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Shouldn't ESV review the replay to make sure something like this isn't shown?
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I dont really care, it seems like they didnt know it was wrong (come on they're barely more than children), now they do and they're making up for their mistake.
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On November 15 2011 15:17 windsupernova wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 15:10 alexhard wrote:
Players throw games all the times. I see tons of people in the thread going "ban them for life for throwing a game". Where were you when idra threw his games in NASL? When Stephano and brat_ok tried to throw their games at Assembly? The list goes on... Korean scene != Foreigner scene. Koreans take unprofessional behavior more seriously apparently.Personally I think an apology was the only thing necessary but I can see their reasoning. They want e sports to be seen as a competition that players take seriously, not as some play pretend competition where match fixing is common. Cultural differences I suppose. But its understandable where they are coming from
I think his point is the number of people overreacting over this(in this thread) compared to other instances in the foreign scene. Obviously the korean scene will react differently but the reactions here act like this is the first time to ever happen in sc2.
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On November 15 2011 15:12 mcmartini wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 15:09 Sabu113 wrote:On November 15 2011 14:41 mango_destroyer wrote:On November 15 2011 14:39 Sabu113 wrote:
Can't have this be so blatant.
Ban them for life.
No tolerance. No Forgiveness. Sure we knew this was happenign but to be so blatant about this is unforgivable. You can`t be serious. That is way too harsh. This is their career and life, you want to end that because of one thrown game in some ESV tournament? They aren`t even adults. I've seen posts that this was a joke match. ESV doesn't matter. We shouldn't take it seriously. I mean it's pretty apparent now that ESV is a joke. This is about setting the right incentives. We're so paranoid about match fixing that to even sniff that behavior is to risk annihilation. Though I suppose being kicked off slayers for a good while is adequate. How is ESV a joke because of this?
One of the arguments against harsh punishment is that it's "just a show match" or less than that. So one of the arguments for gentler treatment is that these matches don't matter.
Two. These games are important enough for a player with a significant lead to drop a game just for the hell of it.
These aren't the vaunted great games of code b.
Edit: The foreign scene because it was much smaller and less serious has a long history of repeatedly allowing cheaters back in. Admittedly there were fewer good/competitive players so I suppose they were forced, though I am sure some sort of an old boys network might have come into play.
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On November 15 2011 14:49 anrimayu wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 14:45 smstorm wrote:
talk about bm. I think he should be suspended from all GSL events for six months at least. I know Boxer bumped him to the B team but still. That's not enough.. he should maybe even be fined.
If he was on my team he would be removed. And no team with right mind would take in a player that has been kicked out by Boxer for inappropriate behavior. That would be as same as lifetime ban. Also, Jessica said that was the original plan, but I'm guessing Coca somehow managed to convince her to let him stay in the team.
I'm sure a lot of foreign teams will consider otherwise, given the disparity between western and eastern views on the severity of match-fixing. Like others said, we saw similar instances occur in MLG and other western tournaments with no outcry, and in some instances, rather, applause. So it's really a matter of history and perspective in this case. Though I personally don't think accepting this punishment is the right thing to do, the fact that Byun and CoCa are willing to serve their sentence indicates maturity.
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They should do an emergancy vote on who should fill Coca's code S spot. This really messes up the bracket (Maybe even giving the spot back to IdrA).
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On November 15 2011 15:20 HeroHenry wrote:
Shouldn't ESV review the replay to make sure something like this isn't shown?
We broadcast roughly 50+ games a week. We would not only have to pre scan them but send them to a translator to get screened. I'm working very hard to learn Korean but I am having a lot of difficulty. Pre scanning is really not an option for us at this point.
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On November 15 2011 15:13 qwazar wrote:
What baffles me is how ESV allowed this to air before sorting it out properly (casted from replays) and where was the referee in all this? Allowing this to happen shows how unprofessional the organization is. Edit: Just read Diamond's post, this is the exact response that should be given.
ESV is a small organization, with limited amount of resources, particularly resources that are fluent in Korean. Anyway, wouldn't your prefer they show exactly what happened?
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On November 15 2011 15:16 anrimayu wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 15:13 qwazar wrote:
R1CH is correct.
This is not match fixing. Match fixing is when the outcome of the match is determined BEFORE the match starts. This is not technically what happened. Both players went into the game wanting victory. It was only when Byan asked for Coca to forfeit was then the match decided in Byun's favor. Byun (and Coca as an accomplice) is guilty of winning a match through nontraditional and unsportsmanlike means.
What baffles me is how ESV allowed this to air before sorting it out properly (casted from replays) and where was the referee in all this? Allowing this to happen shows how unprofessional the organization is.
People are wound up too tight about this in the wrong way. This is not the BW match fixing situation. It's an isolated incident, and the first where such a punishment has been enforced, where a kid mad a terrible mistake in which the repercussions were obviously not outlined to him. Obviously punishment is in order, but nothing more than a message which says that things like this are not acceptable. The fact that Coca's GSL career has been damaged is far too harsh.
The irony of the situation is that people are so divided on this issue its doing far more damage than the actual incident itself. I personally, will not give a cent to any eSports organization until Coca receives his Codes S spot back. Nope, you're wrong. At the start of game 2, Coca told Byun that he can have the game. If you don't know, don't assume things.
Even if Coca told Byun he could have the game, he was flat out WINNING before he left. If it was match fixing, then that was the most obvious shit in the world, but it's not, so they were obviously trolling and playing around.
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It seems a fair decision. It was not professional behavior, and they paid an appropriate price(withdrawal from code S and temporary sanctions). While they should have taken the ESV weekly more seriously then a ladder match, its important to remember this was not a major and was done out of fucking around rather then a desire for monetary gain.
Hopefully this will all blow away for both of these players and they can continue their careers once they have paid their due.
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On November 15 2011 15:06 sunnata wrote:
These harsh penalties are all about sending message that such behaviour is not acceptable (in Korea, at least).
Thanks for this. This might look like an overreaction, but it's simply a message -- and i'm totally fine with it. Yes, it's sad that player like CoCa is affected by this, but he did an idiotic thing. If you really wanna "throw" a game, then at least don't do it publicly.
People who think he should be banned for life or this is as bad as what Savior did, good grief..
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On November 15 2011 15:16 ch33psh33p wrote:
This was a terrible, terrible decision by all parties.
Ruining two players careers like this, killing Esports.
If you mean that Coca and Byun shouldn't get dropped from tournaments then I respectfully disagree. I think this is very unprofessional and these players should earn their places in any league. What coca did was despicable. If he was going to give Byun the win, he shouldn't have competed at all. If Byun can't beat Coca, then he doesn't deserve the rewards for beating Coca.
This type of situation makes me wonder how much this has happened before. I know a lot of people say that Mvp vs Nestea was fixed at Blizzcon and this story lends credence to the notion. I think this type of thing is ruining esports more than a couple good players having their careers ended like this. Of course, if they sober up then their teams might let them compete again.
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EPT
