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i'm not sure i understood right, but If they were just playing around during the game (didn't watch, so wouldn't know), I don't see the problem in Coca surrendering game 2 and going to a game 3 for a more serious game to have an even fight.
feel like slayers was too harsh on coca though. forcing him out of the house? does he even have another place to go to? if they forced him to give up his code S spot, it weirdly somehow sits okay with me since it means that coca would have to fight from the bottom again to get back in code S and "understand the gravity" of him letting Byun through like that. Assuming GOM doesn't ban Coca for dropping out like that.. I hope they don't.
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OMG, this is just utterly stupid...
I mean, didn´t they know that this tournament was gonna get broadcasted?!
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On November 15 2011 15:00 NMx.StyX wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 14:57 setzer wrote:On November 15 2011 14:52 windsupernova wrote:On November 15 2011 14:47 setzer wrote:On November 15 2011 14:42 windsupernova wrote:On November 15 2011 14:38 setzer wrote:On November 15 2011 14:32 JunkkaGom wrote:On November 15 2011 14:28 setzer wrote:On November 15 2011 14:25 jinixxx123 wrote:On November 15 2011 14:21 Redmark wrote:
It's not match-fixing, Christ.
It's dumb, but it's not match-fixing. Not everyone in jail committed murder. Some of them are there for a couple of nights for getting drunk and punching a guy. so what would you call this? throwing a game? you make no sense, This is match fixing. It was intentional of coca to loose the game. Did CoCa benefit in anyway leaving the game? no Did the BW match-fixers benefit from what they did? Absolutely People need to stop comparing apples to oranges. Let me say this to people who say that since this isn't as big deal as Savior incident because Coca dind't gain anything and hasn't caused as huge scandal as then, he should be forgiven : Killing some owner of rich company to steal money is just as bad as killing homeless guy for fun. Small or big, match fixing is killing esports Any consequence should be enforced by ESV, the party that is involved in this. If they determine that what CoCa did was unfair to the integrity of the tournament they should ban him for any duration they choose. What is a clear overreaction however is to deny CoCa the opportunity to compete in ALL tournaments, such as MLG and GSL. I won't speak for CoCa but if I did this and the entire team sat down and explained to me what I did was wrong I would realize my mistake. SlayerS and GOM doesn't need to make life-changing decisions to get a point across any more clear than a sit-down and penalty from ESV would have done. And really? comparing a juvenile mistake to planned murder is quite extreme. Gom didn´t enforce anything. It was the teams. The teams themeselves decided the punishment. Last time I checked GSL isn't a team league and has nothing to do with this particular ESV. If I was causing disruptive behavior in the local supermarket I wouldn't get a ban from all the restaurants in the city. Why should CoCa be removed from a party with no affiliation to this incident? Because it reflects negatively on GSL? No, that is silly. Ummm, Gom didn´t enforce anything? This is like you causing disruptive behavior in the local supermarket and your parents finding out and grounding you for a month. I'm not entirely convinced this wasn't a mutual decision between SlayerS and GOM, not am I convinced CoCa, on his own accord, forfeited his Code-S spot. Or think for a minute, and maybe it was slayersboxer, the owner of slayers, and the iconic figure from bw that probably should keep his players intact with appropriate punishments regardless of age? Or maybe the punishment is an overreaction and we should all hold hands and sing kumbaya.
If true, why is Boxer allowed to choose which of his players can play in Code-S and who can't? Regardless of any behavior, GSL isn't a team league and there is no requirement to be on a team in order to participate in GSL. Last I checked it was CoCa who earned that spot and any decision to leave should be made only by him or the league.
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On November 15 2011 15:01 Dragonmaster26 wrote:
Byun lost to Creator so did it really matter?
It's not the end result. It's about the professionalism shown. If Manchester United played an exhibition game against some South East Asian country and scored 7 own goals when they were 6-0 up just to please the fans, it would be a BIG, HUGE deal. Whoever wins the exhibition games don't mean anything, but it shows their lack of professionalism.
It's a bit of a stretch to compare considering tickets are sold for Man U vs SEA national teams games and I believe FIFA sanctions these matches, but if you want esports to grow, you need to kick these behavior out of esports. It's a tournament, and it's being streamed. Why would you do something so stupid?
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I guess that slayers thinks he just isn't taking it seriously enough when they say that they are looking at his mental state. It looks like he is just messing around, which is probably what SlayerS doesn't want...
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Russian Federation228 Posts
These harsh penalties are all about sending message that such behaviour is not acceptable (in Korea, at least).
Nobody knows how many matches were tanked/thrown before this incident, though. Especially in Western scene.
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On November 15 2011 15:05 CloudCat wrote:
i'm not sure i understood right, but If they were just playing around during the game (didn't watch, so wouldn't know), I don't see the problem in Coca surrendering game 2 and going to a game 3 for a more serious game to have an even fight.
feel like slayers was too harsh on coca though. forcing him out of the house? does he even have another place to go to? if they forced him to give up his code S spot, it weirdly somehow sits okay with me since it means that coca would have to fight from the bottom again to get back in code S and "understand the gravity" of him letting Byun through like that. Assuming GOM doesn't ban Coca for dropping out like that.. I hope they don't.
You don't see a problem in two players disregarding the spirit of competition just so they can have some added lulz? Well then I don't know what I can do to convince you.
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-_- I don't know who the bigger idiot is, Byun for initially trolling or Coca for taking him seriously and actually leaving... or if they're equally blameworthy for complicit idiocy. I doubt either one was thinking about the repercussions of their actions, so it's sad to see the extent of the punishments being handed out. Poor [naive] kids are going to serve as precedent now, so hopefully this raises awareness among players to not screw around in tournaments.
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On November 15 2011 15:06 setzer wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 15:00 NMx.StyX wrote:On November 15 2011 14:57 setzer wrote:On November 15 2011 14:52 windsupernova wrote:On November 15 2011 14:47 setzer wrote:On November 15 2011 14:42 windsupernova wrote:On November 15 2011 14:38 setzer wrote:On November 15 2011 14:32 JunkkaGom wrote:On November 15 2011 14:28 setzer wrote:On November 15 2011 14:25 jinixxx123 wrote:
[quote]
so what would you call this? throwing a game? you make no sense, This is match fixing. It was intentional of coca to loose the game.
Did CoCa benefit in anyway leaving the game? no Did the BW match-fixers benefit from what they did? Absolutely People need to stop comparing apples to oranges. Let me say this to people who say that since this isn't as big deal as Savior incident because Coca dind't gain anything and hasn't caused as huge scandal as then, he should be forgiven : Killing some owner of rich company to steal money is just as bad as killing homeless guy for fun. Small or big, match fixing is killing esports Any consequence should be enforced by ESV, the party that is involved in this. If they determine that what CoCa did was unfair to the integrity of the tournament they should ban him for any duration they choose. What is a clear overreaction however is to deny CoCa the opportunity to compete in ALL tournaments, such as MLG and GSL. I won't speak for CoCa but if I did this and the entire team sat down and explained to me what I did was wrong I would realize my mistake. SlayerS and GOM doesn't need to make life-changing decisions to get a point across any more clear than a sit-down and penalty from ESV would have done. And really? comparing a juvenile mistake to planned murder is quite extreme. Gom didn´t enforce anything. It was the teams. The teams themeselves decided the punishment. Last time I checked GSL isn't a team league and has nothing to do with this particular ESV. If I was causing disruptive behavior in the local supermarket I wouldn't get a ban from all the restaurants in the city. Why should CoCa be removed from a party with no affiliation to this incident? Because it reflects negatively on GSL? No, that is silly. Ummm, Gom didn´t enforce anything? This is like you causing disruptive behavior in the local supermarket and your parents finding out and grounding you for a month. I'm not entirely convinced this wasn't a mutual decision between SlayerS and GOM, not am I convinced CoCa, on his own accord, forfeited his Code-S spot. Or think for a minute, and maybe it was slayersboxer, the owner of slayers, and the iconic figure from bw that probably should keep his players intact with appropriate punishments regardless of age? Or maybe the punishment is an overreaction and we should all hold hands and sing kumbaya. If true, why is Boxer allowed to choose which of his players can play in Code-S and who can't? Regardless of any behavior, GSL isn't a team league and there is no requirement to be on a team in order to participate in GSL. Last I checked it was CoCa who earned that spot and any decision to leave should be made only by him or the league.
Sure, CoCa could have defied the Emperor and his team, destroyed his reputation in the korean scene and became teamless and continued to play in the GSL. He choose to save what honor he had left and take the high road with his punishment. You don't understand korean culture so you have no reason to comment on it.
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On November 15 2011 15:06 setzer wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 15:00 NMx.StyX wrote:On November 15 2011 14:57 setzer wrote:On November 15 2011 14:52 windsupernova wrote:On November 15 2011 14:47 setzer wrote:On November 15 2011 14:42 windsupernova wrote:On November 15 2011 14:38 setzer wrote:On November 15 2011 14:32 JunkkaGom wrote:On November 15 2011 14:28 setzer wrote:On November 15 2011 14:25 jinixxx123 wrote:
[quote]
so what would you call this? throwing a game? you make no sense, This is match fixing. It was intentional of coca to loose the game.
Did CoCa benefit in anyway leaving the game? no Did the BW match-fixers benefit from what they did? Absolutely People need to stop comparing apples to oranges. Let me say this to people who say that since this isn't as big deal as Savior incident because Coca dind't gain anything and hasn't caused as huge scandal as then, he should be forgiven : Killing some owner of rich company to steal money is just as bad as killing homeless guy for fun. Small or big, match fixing is killing esports Any consequence should be enforced by ESV, the party that is involved in this. If they determine that what CoCa did was unfair to the integrity of the tournament they should ban him for any duration they choose. What is a clear overreaction however is to deny CoCa the opportunity to compete in ALL tournaments, such as MLG and GSL. I won't speak for CoCa but if I did this and the entire team sat down and explained to me what I did was wrong I would realize my mistake. SlayerS and GOM doesn't need to make life-changing decisions to get a point across any more clear than a sit-down and penalty from ESV would have done. And really? comparing a juvenile mistake to planned murder is quite extreme. Gom didn´t enforce anything. It was the teams. The teams themeselves decided the punishment. Last time I checked GSL isn't a team league and has nothing to do with this particular ESV. If I was causing disruptive behavior in the local supermarket I wouldn't get a ban from all the restaurants in the city. Why should CoCa be removed from a party with no affiliation to this incident? Because it reflects negatively on GSL? No, that is silly. Ummm, Gom didn´t enforce anything? This is like you causing disruptive behavior in the local supermarket and your parents finding out and grounding you for a month. I'm not entirely convinced this wasn't a mutual decision between SlayerS and GOM, not am I convinced CoCa, on his own accord, forfeited his Code-S spot. Or think for a minute, and maybe it was slayersboxer, the owner of slayers, and the iconic figure from bw that probably should keep his players intact with appropriate punishments regardless of age? Or maybe the punishment is an overreaction and we should all hold hands and sing kumbaya. If true, why is Boxer allowed to choose which of his players can play in Code-S and who can't? Regardless of any behavior, GSL isn't a team league and there is no requirement to be on a team in order to participate in GSL. Last I checked it was CoCa who earned that spot and any decision to leave should be made only by him or the league.
I think I'm pretty sure if CoCa wanted to leave SlayerS and stay in the GSL it would be fine. But the reputational damage has been done already and the reason he's going with this decision is because he still wants to be in SlayerS.
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big mistake by coca to sabotage his career if slayers is too emb arrased to havehim rep them in code s theres other teams that would take him for sure
if it were a less skilled or promising player it owuld make sense...
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NO! Fewer Zergs in the GSL 
Punishment is fair, at least depending on how long his suspension is. Something like 6 months would be too much imo
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Boxer sat in front of his gold-trimmed mirror, applied his make-up, straightened his hair out perfectly and added the little spikes, and then decided he would really show 17 year old Coca who's boss and emperor once and for all.
HAHA. Massive overreaction based on the sensitive egos of the team managers.
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Pro players should act professionally and not just decide things thinking only of themselves. They are in a Pro team that pays them. It is their job. IMO, they deserve to receive disciplinary actions. However, banning them or one of them from tournaments is a bit harsh. But I also think that SlayerS is just trying to show the community that they take things very seriously when it comes to professionalism.
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On November 15 2011 14:41 mango_destroyer wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 14:39 Sabu113 wrote:
Can't have this be so blatant.
Ban them for life.
No tolerance. No Forgiveness. Sure we knew this was happenign but to be so blatant about this is unforgivable. You can`t be serious. That is way too harsh. This is their career and life, you want to end that because of one thrown game in some ESV tournament? They aren`t even adults.
I've seen posts that this was a joke match. ESV doesn't matter. We shouldn't take it seriously.
I mean it's pretty apparent now that ESV is a joke.
This is about setting the right incentives. We're so paranoid about match fixing that to even sniff that behavior is to risk annihilation.
Though I suppose being kicked off slayers for a good while is adequate.
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Players throw games all the times. I see tons of people in the thread going "ban them for life for throwing a game". Where were you when idra threw his games in NASL? When Stephano and brat_ok tried to throw their games at Assembly? The list goes on...
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On November 15 2011 15:06 setzer wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 15:00 NMx.StyX wrote:On November 15 2011 14:57 setzer wrote:On November 15 2011 14:52 windsupernova wrote:On November 15 2011 14:47 setzer wrote:On November 15 2011 14:42 windsupernova wrote:On November 15 2011 14:38 setzer wrote:On November 15 2011 14:32 JunkkaGom wrote:On November 15 2011 14:28 setzer wrote:On November 15 2011 14:25 jinixxx123 wrote:
[quote]
so what would you call this? throwing a game? you make no sense, This is match fixing. It was intentional of coca to loose the game.
Did CoCa benefit in anyway leaving the game? no Did the BW match-fixers benefit from what they did? Absolutely People need to stop comparing apples to oranges. Let me say this to people who say that since this isn't as big deal as Savior incident because Coca dind't gain anything and hasn't caused as huge scandal as then, he should be forgiven : Killing some owner of rich company to steal money is just as bad as killing homeless guy for fun. Small or big, match fixing is killing esports Any consequence should be enforced by ESV, the party that is involved in this. If they determine that what CoCa did was unfair to the integrity of the tournament they should ban him for any duration they choose. What is a clear overreaction however is to deny CoCa the opportunity to compete in ALL tournaments, such as MLG and GSL. I won't speak for CoCa but if I did this and the entire team sat down and explained to me what I did was wrong I would realize my mistake. SlayerS and GOM doesn't need to make life-changing decisions to get a point across any more clear than a sit-down and penalty from ESV would have done. And really? comparing a juvenile mistake to planned murder is quite extreme. Gom didn´t enforce anything. It was the teams. The teams themeselves decided the punishment. Last time I checked GSL isn't a team league and has nothing to do with this particular ESV. If I was causing disruptive behavior in the local supermarket I wouldn't get a ban from all the restaurants in the city. Why should CoCa be removed from a party with no affiliation to this incident? Because it reflects negatively on GSL? No, that is silly. Ummm, Gom didn´t enforce anything? This is like you causing disruptive behavior in the local supermarket and your parents finding out and grounding you for a month. I'm not entirely convinced this wasn't a mutual decision between SlayerS and GOM, not am I convinced CoCa, on his own accord, forfeited his Code-S spot. Or think for a minute, and maybe it was slayersboxer, the owner of slayers, and the iconic figure from bw that probably should keep his players intact with appropriate punishments regardless of age? Or maybe the punishment is an overreaction and we should all hold hands and sing kumbaya. If true, why is Boxer allowed to choose which of his players can play in Code-S and who can't? Regardless of any behavior, GSL isn't a team league and there is no requirement to be on a team in order to participate in GSL. Last I checked it was CoCa who earned that spot and any decision to leave should be made only by him or the league.
Coca was probably told "Slayers or Code S, Your choice"
And he choose to stay on Slayers.
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On November 15 2011 15:01 stablol wrote:
if this is all, i don't see how this is match fixing...
"Byun: Leave fuck fuck fuck
Coca: I surrender
Byun: Let's go to a third game
Coca: ok. gg"
hes just agreeing that he lost... :p
i think its being blown out of proportion
Coca was very far ahead. He's not agreeing that he lost, he's giving up even though he won.
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I feel bad for ESV in all of this because i think it will cost the Korean Weekly a code A spot. I think Gom will want to stick to tournaments with more on the line to provide spots to try to keep them as legitimate as possible.
These Code A spots are so hard to come by that I think they will only come from Gom controlled tourneys or ones with a considerable prize pool going forward.
That being said i think a 3-6 month ban from GSL tournaments would be fair enough given the circumstances.
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On November 15 2011 15:06 setzer wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 15:00 NMx.StyX wrote:On November 15 2011 14:57 setzer wrote:On November 15 2011 14:52 windsupernova wrote:On November 15 2011 14:47 setzer wrote:On November 15 2011 14:42 windsupernova wrote:On November 15 2011 14:38 setzer wrote:On November 15 2011 14:32 JunkkaGom wrote:On November 15 2011 14:28 setzer wrote:On November 15 2011 14:25 jinixxx123 wrote:
[quote]
so what would you call this? throwing a game? you make no sense, This is match fixing. It was intentional of coca to loose the game.
Did CoCa benefit in anyway leaving the game? no Did the BW match-fixers benefit from what they did? Absolutely People need to stop comparing apples to oranges. Let me say this to people who say that since this isn't as big deal as Savior incident because Coca dind't gain anything and hasn't caused as huge scandal as then, he should be forgiven : Killing some owner of rich company to steal money is just as bad as killing homeless guy for fun. Small or big, match fixing is killing esports Any consequence should be enforced by ESV, the party that is involved in this. If they determine that what CoCa did was unfair to the integrity of the tournament they should ban him for any duration they choose. What is a clear overreaction however is to deny CoCa the opportunity to compete in ALL tournaments, such as MLG and GSL. I won't speak for CoCa but if I did this and the entire team sat down and explained to me what I did was wrong I would realize my mistake. SlayerS and GOM doesn't need to make life-changing decisions to get a point across any more clear than a sit-down and penalty from ESV would have done. And really? comparing a juvenile mistake to planned murder is quite extreme. Gom didn´t enforce anything. It was the teams. The teams themeselves decided the punishment. Last time I checked GSL isn't a team league and has nothing to do with this particular ESV. If I was causing disruptive behavior in the local supermarket I wouldn't get a ban from all the restaurants in the city. Why should CoCa be removed from a party with no affiliation to this incident? Because it reflects negatively on GSL? No, that is silly. Ummm, Gom didn´t enforce anything? This is like you causing disruptive behavior in the local supermarket and your parents finding out and grounding you for a month. I'm not entirely convinced this wasn't a mutual decision between SlayerS and GOM, not am I convinced CoCa, on his own accord, forfeited his Code-S spot. Or think for a minute, and maybe it was slayersboxer, the owner of slayers, and the iconic figure from bw that probably should keep his players intact with appropriate punishments regardless of age? Or maybe the punishment is an overreaction and we should all hold hands and sing kumbaya. If true, why is Boxer allowed to choose which of his players can play in Code-S and who can't? Regardless of any behavior, GSL isn't a team league and there is no requirement to be on a team in order to participate in GSL. Last I checked it was CoCa who earned that spot and any decision to leave should be made only by him or the league.
Actually the article says they were going to expel him from the team, but CoCa himself wanted to give up code S spot, etc etc, and they decided to demote him & kick him out of the team house instead of expelling him from the team. So no, boxer did not decide whether or not coca can play in code S.
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EPT
