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Coca forfeits Code S due to ESV weekly scandal - Page 31

Forum Index > SC2 General
1944 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 29 30 31 32 33 98 Next
stablol
Profile Joined July 2011
United States82 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-15 06:01:18
November 15 2011 06:01 GMT
#601
if this is all, i don't see how this is match fixing...
"Byun: Leave fuck fuck fuck
Coca: I surrender
Byun: Let's go to a third game
Coca: ok. gg"
hes just agreeing that he lost... :p
i think its being blown out of proportion
보아 사랑해요 짱
Kiyo.
Profile Joined November 2010
United States2284 Posts
November 15 2011 06:01 GMT
#602
This is why we need a player's association for SC2. Do you think the NBPA, NFLPA or the MLBPA would allow this to happen to one of their players? We need an organization that is willing to fight for their players.
KT Rolster & StarTale <3 | twitter.com/RayFoxII - twitch.tv/RayFoxII
Dragonmaster26
Profile Joined April 2011
Australia311 Posts
November 15 2011 06:01 GMT
#603
Byun lost to Creator so did it really matter?
windsupernova
Profile Joined October 2010
Mexico5280 Posts
November 15 2011 06:01 GMT
#604
On November 15 2011 14:59 Horse...falcon wrote:
So what's going to happen to Byun? Anybody know yet?


He is grounded too. But he will keep living on the prime house(well according to the posts in this thread).

no one is getting kicked out of their teams atm.
"Its easy, just trust your CPU".-Boxer on being good at games
Niick
Profile Joined September 2010
Australia426 Posts
November 15 2011 06:02 GMT
#605
On November 15 2011 15:01 stablol wrote:
if this is all, i don't see how this is match fixing...
"Byun: Leave fuck fuck fuck
Coca: I surrender
Byun: Let's go to a third game
Coca: ok. gg"
hes just agreeing that he lost... :p
i think its being blown out of proportion


the :p saves you from a savaging.. lol
You'll have to speak up, I'm wearing a towel.
slicknav
Profile Joined January 2011
1409 Posts
November 15 2011 06:02 GMT
#606
On November 15 2011 14:59 Horse...falcon wrote:
So what's going to happen to Byun? Anybody know yet?


He's banned from competing but can still practice in the Prime house afaik.
blah blah blah...
Fubi
Profile Joined March 2011
2228 Posts
November 15 2011 06:02 GMT
#607
On November 15 2011 14:57 slytown wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 15 2011 14:53 Fubi wrote:
On November 15 2011 14:43 mtn wrote:
On November 15 2011 14:42 SenorChang wrote:
On November 15 2011 14:40 mizU wrote:
On November 15 2011 14:39 SenorChang wrote:
On November 15 2011 14:36 mizU wrote:
On November 15 2011 14:35 SenorChang wrote:
On November 15 2011 14:32 JunkkaGom wrote:
On November 15 2011 14:28 setzer wrote:
[quote]

Did CoCa benefit in anyway leaving the game? no

Did the BW match-fixers benefit from what they did? Absolutely

People need to stop comparing apples to oranges.


Let me say this to people who say that since this isn't as big deal as Savior incident because Coca dind't gain anything and hasn't caused as huge scandal as then, he should be forgiven :

Killing some owner of rich company to steal money is just as bad as killing homeless guy for fun.
Small or big, match fixing is killing esports

That's isn't a good analogy
Murder is murder, this is two completely different circumstances


Throwing a game, is throwing a game.

Throwing a game and match fixing are not the same thing.
Match fixing is when you stand to gain something in return for throwing it. Coca didn't stand to gain anything


Does it matter? He still threw a game. And publicly.

Yes, of course it matters when their careers are on the line, how can you be so dismissive about it? They made a small mistake - something that they would most likely never repeat after seeing the backlash of this incident.

I agree some punishment is needed but this is so excessive.


Small mistake? It was for Code S spot FFS.

He should have been punished, and I'm glad that he was.

It was for NO SPOTS. God can OP clarify that in the first post instead of having so much misinformation spreading around?


But it was clarified in the first post. It's the thread title that's misleading.

"Coca lets a series go to the third game and loses; SlayerS punishes him for not trying to win 2nd game against his friend."

The "man" here is SlayerS, unfortunately, trying to bring down Coca. But oh well. He had to have expected some kind of punishment after the series.

Obviously not clarified enough if there's a few people posting every other page implying that they did it for Byun to get a code A spot. (that or people just don't read and assume things too much lol)
Soft`Soap
Profile Joined March 2011
Canada865 Posts
November 15 2011 06:02 GMT
#608
You people need to realize that this match DID mean something

This was not a showmatch with 0 money on the line

This was a match that could potentially lead to Byun winning a code A spot
(Provided that one was given to the winner of the tournament and that he won)

It doesn't matter if the match itself didn't grant a code A spot, this is definitely not something to just overlook
MiXyass DjLadyDana SoftSoap RightClick DigicidaL l)H[Zodiak] 58^^
Perryy
Profile Joined November 2011
54 Posts
November 15 2011 06:02 GMT
#609
On November 15 2011 15:01 stablol wrote:
if this is all, i don't see how this is match fixing...
"Byun: Leave fuck fuck fuck
Coca: I surrender
Byun: Let's go to a third game
Coca: ok. gg"
hes just agreeing that he lost... :p
i think its being blown out of proportion


He left a won game because his friend asked him to.
lazyfeet
Profile Joined April 2010
United States468 Posts
November 15 2011 06:03 GMT
#610
On November 15 2011 14:56 JunkkaGom wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 15 2011 14:51 setzer wrote:
On November 15 2011 14:44 JunkkaGom wrote:
On November 15 2011 14:37 R1CH wrote:
On November 15 2011 14:32 JunkkaGom wrote:
On November 15 2011 14:28 setzer wrote:
On November 15 2011 14:25 jinixxx123 wrote:
On November 15 2011 14:21 Redmark wrote:
It's not match-fixing, Christ.

It's dumb, but it's not match-fixing. Not everyone in jail committed murder. Some of them are there for a couple of nights for getting drunk and punching a guy.



so what would you call this? throwing a game? you make no sense, This is match fixing. It was intentional of coca to loose the game.


Did CoCa benefit in anyway leaving the game? no

Did the BW match-fixers benefit from what they did? Absolutely

People need to stop comparing apples to oranges.


Let me say this to people who say that since this isn't as big deal as Savior incident because Coca dind't gain anything and hasn't caused as huge scandal as then, he should be forgiven :

Killing some owner of rich company to steal money is just as bad as killing homeless guy for fun.
Small or big, match fixing is killing esports

Ruining pro-gamers careers with ridiculous over-reactions is killing esports. Not some 17 year old kid throwing a game.


I am aware that these are just kids and I do feel pitty but I still think this is unacceptable.

A 'pro-gamer' should not insult fans who watch the game anticipating good game. Sure many players fail to entertain but there is difference doing it unintentionally and doing it on purpose, not to mention showing it to viewers witout shame or guilt.


So you are insinuating that CoCa had malicious intent? That he doesn't regret his decision at all?

Dante Stallworth committed second-degree manslaughter but he is still in the NFL. CoCa apparently deserves the same punishment (temporary removal from league) for throwing a single game in a small tournament that has nothing to do with GOM.


I never said that Coca doesn't regret nor was I speaking on GOM's term.
Boxer decided he should be banned from playing in tourneys temporarily and I agree to his decision as a fan.
And do not compare this to corrupt American sports scene. I gave up hope after OJ Simpson.

Both have nothing to do with the sports itself more like failed American legal system. This incident is more like a NFL team has a losing record with no hope of reaching the playoff, with few games left they tank the game trying to get a first draft pick. Savior is like the baseball black sox scandal which they were banned for life.
LUCK is What Happens When Preparation Meets Opportunity.......
_Depression
Profile Joined October 2011
United States251 Posts
November 15 2011 06:03 GMT
#611
On November 15 2011 15:02 MiXyass wrote:
You people need to realize that this match DID mean something

This was not a showmatch with 0 money on the line

This was a match that could potentially lead to Byun winning a code A spot
(Provided that one was given to the winner of the tournament and that he won)

It doesn't matter if the match itself didn't grant a code A spot, this is definitely not something to just overlook


There was no Code A spot on the line. Been clarified multiple times throughout the thread.
Cobbbler
Profile Joined July 2010
United States60 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-15 06:05:58
November 15 2011 06:03 GMT
#612
On November 15 2011 15:00 NMx.StyX wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 15 2011 14:57 setzer wrote:
On November 15 2011 14:52 windsupernova wrote:
On November 15 2011 14:47 setzer wrote:
On November 15 2011 14:42 windsupernova wrote:
On November 15 2011 14:38 setzer wrote:
On November 15 2011 14:32 JunkkaGom wrote:
On November 15 2011 14:28 setzer wrote:
On November 15 2011 14:25 jinixxx123 wrote:
On November 15 2011 14:21 Redmark wrote:
It's not match-fixing, Christ.

It's dumb, but it's not match-fixing. Not everyone in jail committed murder. Some of them are there for a couple of nights for getting drunk and punching a guy.



so what would you call this? throwing a game? you make no sense, This is match fixing. It was intentional of coca to loose the game.


Did CoCa benefit in anyway leaving the game? no

Did the BW match-fixers benefit from what they did? Absolutely

People need to stop comparing apples to oranges.


Let me say this to people who say that since this isn't as big deal as Savior incident because Coca dind't gain anything and hasn't caused as huge scandal as then, he should be forgiven :

Killing some owner of rich company to steal money is just as bad as killing homeless guy for fun.
Small or big, match fixing is killing esports


Any consequence should be enforced by ESV, the party that is involved in this. If they determine that what CoCa did was unfair to the integrity of the tournament they should ban him for any duration they choose. What is a clear overreaction however is to deny CoCa the opportunity to compete in ALL tournaments, such as MLG and GSL.

I won't speak for CoCa but if I did this and the entire team sat down and explained to me what I did was wrong I would realize my mistake. SlayerS and GOM doesn't need to make life-changing decisions to get a point across any more clear than a sit-down and penalty from ESV would have done.

And really? comparing a juvenile mistake to planned murder is quite extreme.


Gom didn´t enforce anything. It was the teams. The teams themeselves decided the punishment.


Last time I checked GSL isn't a team league and has nothing to do with this particular ESV.

If I was causing disruptive behavior in the local supermarket I wouldn't get a ban from all the restaurants in the city. Why should CoCa be removed from a party with no affiliation to this incident? Because it reflects negatively on GSL? No, that is silly.


Ummm, Gom didn´t enforce anything?

This is like you causing disruptive behavior in the local supermarket and your parents finding out and grounding you for a month.


I'm not entirely convinced this wasn't a mutual decision between SlayerS and GOM, not am I convinced CoCa, on his own accord, forfeited his Code-S spot.


Or think for a minute, and maybe it was slayersboxer, the owner of slayers, and the iconic figure from bw that probably should keep his players intact with appropriate punishments regardless of age? Or maybe the punishment is an overreaction and we should all hold hands and sing kumbaya.


I'm down for thinking rationally and kumbaya over ruining a talented 17 year old's career with a crazy overreaction anyday.
Fubi
Profile Joined March 2011
2228 Posts
November 15 2011 06:04 GMT
#613
On November 15 2011 15:02 MiXyass wrote:
You people need to realize that this match DID mean something

This was not a showmatch with 0 money on the line

This was a match that could potentially lead to Byun winning a code A spot
(Provided that one was given to the winner of the tournament and that he won)

It doesn't matter if the match itself didn't grant a code A spot, this is definitely not something to just overlook

See what I mean? Every other page, there's someone assuming wrongly that this was for a Code A spot...
Redmark
Profile Joined March 2010
Canada2129 Posts
November 15 2011 06:04 GMT
#614
On November 15 2011 14:57 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 15 2011 14:49 slytown wrote:
How is this match fixing? A: He didn't gain anything. It's not match fixing.


"dishonest activity to make sure that one team wins a particular sports match"
~http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/british/match-fixing

Maybe because match-fixing isn't necessarily relient on you gaining something tangible? Surely he was doing something nice for his friend, right? That's gaining something for himself. What if I fixed a match as a third party so that an enemy of mine automatically lost, but all I gained was the satisfaction of that man's misery? (Such a thing doesn't even have to be premeditated necessarily, either.) Still match-fixing, but I didn't profit economically from it.

He didn't do it to the extent that Savior did, but throwing the game was match-fixing, by definition. And everyone else who worked hard in that tournament gets screwed over by playing fairly and not getting free wins. It doesn't matter if it was a spur of the moment decision or not; he still cheated. And it doesn't matter if he makes money off the decision or not; he still broke the tournament rules by making sure that one player progressed when he shouldn't have. That's match-fixing (specifically by throwing his own game).

Ironically in this case it's more like honest activity, given that they blared it out on the chat.

More seriously, how is this different from simply not showing up? What is the additional cost to the tournament or the fans of showing up and then losing? What if you 6-pool, and then feel so bad about it you decide to 15-hatch next game even if you knew you could win by rushing again? What if you realize that the other player is that much better than you and a-click your workers? The only difference is that they were dumb enough to say it out loud.
how2TL
Profile Joined August 2010
1197 Posts
November 15 2011 06:04 GMT
#615
People who think it's a big deal compare this to Savior.

People who don't think it's a big deal compares it to the guy who threw 2 games to White-Ra.

But it looks like none of you are right.
krews
Profile Joined September 2010
United States1308 Posts
November 15 2011 06:04 GMT
#616
wow talk about an overreaction
Caesarion
Profile Joined April 2011
Australia8332 Posts
November 15 2011 06:04 GMT
#617
On November 15 2011 14:50 Cobbbler wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 15 2011 14:44 JunkkaGom wrote:
On November 15 2011 14:37 R1CH wrote:
On November 15 2011 14:32 JunkkaGom wrote:
On November 15 2011 14:28 setzer wrote:
On November 15 2011 14:25 jinixxx123 wrote:
On November 15 2011 14:21 Redmark wrote:
It's not match-fixing, Christ.

It's dumb, but it's not match-fixing. Not everyone in jail committed murder. Some of them are there for a couple of nights for getting drunk and punching a guy.



so what would you call this? throwing a game? you make no sense, This is match fixing. It was intentional of coca to loose the game.


Did CoCa benefit in anyway leaving the game? no

Did the BW match-fixers benefit from what they did? Absolutely

People need to stop comparing apples to oranges.


Let me say this to people who say that since this isn't as big deal as Savior incident because Coca dind't gain anything and hasn't caused as huge scandal as then, he should be forgiven :

Killing some owner of rich company to steal money is just as bad as killing homeless guy for fun.
Small or big, match fixing is killing esports

Ruining pro-gamers careers with ridiculous over-reactions is killing esports. Not some 17 year old kid throwing a game.


I am aware that these are just kids and I do feel pitty but I still think this is unacceptable.

A 'pro-gamer' should not insult fans who watch the game anticipating good game. Sure many players fail to entertain but there is difference doing it unintentionally and doing it on purpose, not to mention showing it to viewers witout shame or guilt.


According to the ESV TV Korean weekly thread, the people who watched the game really liked it. Let me quote:

Show nested quote +
On November 15 2011 09:16 Asha` wrote:
lmao at the chat in this game

I love how they are trashtalking each other in English xD



Show nested quote +
On November 15 2011 09:19 wklbishop wrote:
Interesting chat.

I wonder if GSL allows more chat than what kind of personalities would develop.



Show nested quote +
On November 15 2011 09:54 wklbishop wrote:
This. is. awesome.

haha. I really can't tell anymore if this is friendly banter or they hate each other or what anymore xD






Wrong. The first two comments were in regard to Game 1, where they were just bantering in English.

After what happened in the 2nd game, we were more confused than anything else.
Slardar
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada7595 Posts
November 15 2011 06:05 GMT
#618
What I don't understand is, what is a Code S player Coca doing any business in the Korean Weekly?
Soft`Soap
Profile Joined March 2011
Canada865 Posts
November 15 2011 06:05 GMT
#619
The winner of the tournament could potentially earn a code A spot is that not correct?
It doesn't matter if the match ITSELF didn't grant a code A spot, it still granted a chance to obtain one
MiXyass DjLadyDana SoftSoap RightClick DigicidaL l)H[Zodiak] 58^^
drgonzhere
Profile Joined November 2010
United States447 Posts
November 15 2011 06:05 GMT
#620
No, Coca you goofed! I loved you, what happened!
Dictator for Life of the PuMa Fanclub/ DRG, PuMA, Sage, Puzzle, MMA Fighting!
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