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This can be said about the same thing as Oz vs YugiOh at the up and down. many people said Oz threw the game so YugiOh gets the code S spot rather then keen. but where do we draw the line????
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On November 15 2011 14:43 mtn wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 14:42 SenorChang wrote:On November 15 2011 14:40 mizU wrote:On November 15 2011 14:39 SenorChang wrote:On November 15 2011 14:36 mizU wrote:On November 15 2011 14:35 SenorChang wrote:On November 15 2011 14:32 JunkkaGom wrote:On November 15 2011 14:28 setzer wrote:On November 15 2011 14:25 jinixxx123 wrote:On November 15 2011 14:21 Redmark wrote:
It's not match-fixing, Christ.
It's dumb, but it's not match-fixing. Not everyone in jail committed murder. Some of them are there for a couple of nights for getting drunk and punching a guy. so what would you call this? throwing a game? you make no sense, This is match fixing. It was intentional of coca to loose the game. Did CoCa benefit in anyway leaving the game? no Did the BW match-fixers benefit from what they did? Absolutely People need to stop comparing apples to oranges. Let me say this to people who say that since this isn't as big deal as Savior incident because Coca dind't gain anything and hasn't caused as huge scandal as then, he should be forgiven : Killing some owner of rich company to steal money is just as bad as killing homeless guy for fun. Small or big, match fixing is killing esports That's isn't a good analogy Murder is murder, this is two completely different circumstances Throwing a game, is throwing a game. Throwing a game and match fixing are not the same thing. Match fixing is when you stand to gain something in return for throwing it. Coca didn't stand to gain anything Does it matter? He still threw a game. And publicly. Yes, of course it matters when their careers are on the line, how can you be so dismissive about it? They made a small mistake - something that they would most likely never repeat after seeing the backlash of this incident. I agree some punishment is needed but this is so excessive. Small mistake? It was for Code S spot FFS. He should have been punished, and I'm glad that he was.
It was for NO SPOTS. God can OP clarify that in the first post instead of having so much misinformation spreading around?
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What's the big deal? We saw Idra throw winning games away all the time.
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On November 15 2011 14:47 setzer wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 14:42 windsupernova wrote:On November 15 2011 14:38 setzer wrote:On November 15 2011 14:32 JunkkaGom wrote:On November 15 2011 14:28 setzer wrote:On November 15 2011 14:25 jinixxx123 wrote:On November 15 2011 14:21 Redmark wrote:
It's not match-fixing, Christ.
It's dumb, but it's not match-fixing. Not everyone in jail committed murder. Some of them are there for a couple of nights for getting drunk and punching a guy. so what would you call this? throwing a game? you make no sense, This is match fixing. It was intentional of coca to loose the game. Did CoCa benefit in anyway leaving the game? no Did the BW match-fixers benefit from what they did? Absolutely People need to stop comparing apples to oranges. Let me say this to people who say that since this isn't as big deal as Savior incident because Coca dind't gain anything and hasn't caused as huge scandal as then, he should be forgiven : Killing some owner of rich company to steal money is just as bad as killing homeless guy for fun. Small or big, match fixing is killing esports Any consequence should be enforced by ESV, the party that is involved in this. If they determine that what CoCa did was unfair to the integrity of the tournament they should ban him for any duration they choose. What is a clear overreaction however is to deny CoCa the opportunity to compete in ALL tournaments, such as MLG and GSL. I won't speak for CoCa but if I did this and the entire team sat down and explained to me what I did was wrong I would realize my mistake. SlayerS and GOM doesn't need to make life-changing decisions to get a point across any more clear than a sit-down and penalty from ESV would have done. And really? comparing a juvenile mistake to planned murder is quite extreme. Gom didn´t enforce anything. It was the teams. The teams themeselves decided the punishment. Last time I checked GSL isn't a team league and has nothing to do with this particular ESV. If I was causing disruptive behavior in the local supermarket I wouldn't get a ban from all the restaurants in the city. Why should CoCa be removed from a party with no affiliation to this incident? Because it reflects negatively on GSL? No, that is silly.
It reflect negatively on Slayers and Prime. Which is why they've banned the players from competing, and why Coca was probably forced to forfeit his spot in Code S. Not because of GOM and the GSL, but because of the team he was on told him to do so.
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On November 15 2011 14:53 snafoo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 14:51 Corrosive wrote:
Would you ban a team from the NHL/NBA/NFL if they messed around during an exhibition game? No, 100% for sure not.
Obviously this game was part of a tournament, and wasn't an exhibition game, but it's similar as it has no effect on any important, serious games. Read the OP before you post. GOM didn't ban him, SlayerS did.
Can you show me where i said gom banned him? thanks.
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On November 15 2011 14:52 windsupernova wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 14:47 setzer wrote:On November 15 2011 14:42 windsupernova wrote:On November 15 2011 14:38 setzer wrote:On November 15 2011 14:32 JunkkaGom wrote:On November 15 2011 14:28 setzer wrote:On November 15 2011 14:25 jinixxx123 wrote:On November 15 2011 14:21 Redmark wrote:
It's not match-fixing, Christ.
It's dumb, but it's not match-fixing. Not everyone in jail committed murder. Some of them are there for a couple of nights for getting drunk and punching a guy. so what would you call this? throwing a game? you make no sense, This is match fixing. It was intentional of coca to loose the game. Did CoCa benefit in anyway leaving the game? no Did the BW match-fixers benefit from what they did? Absolutely People need to stop comparing apples to oranges. Let me say this to people who say that since this isn't as big deal as Savior incident because Coca dind't gain anything and hasn't caused as huge scandal as then, he should be forgiven : Killing some owner of rich company to steal money is just as bad as killing homeless guy for fun. Small or big, match fixing is killing esports Any consequence should be enforced by ESV, the party that is involved in this. If they determine that what CoCa did was unfair to the integrity of the tournament they should ban him for any duration they choose. What is a clear overreaction however is to deny CoCa the opportunity to compete in ALL tournaments, such as MLG and GSL. I won't speak for CoCa but if I did this and the entire team sat down and explained to me what I did was wrong I would realize my mistake. SlayerS and GOM doesn't need to make life-changing decisions to get a point across any more clear than a sit-down and penalty from ESV would have done. And really? comparing a juvenile mistake to planned murder is quite extreme. Gom didn´t enforce anything. It was the teams. The teams themeselves decided the punishment. Last time I checked GSL isn't a team league and has nothing to do with this particular ESV. If I was causing disruptive behavior in the local supermarket I wouldn't get a ban from all the restaurants in the city. Why should CoCa be removed from a party with no affiliation to this incident? Because it reflects negatively on GSL? No, that is silly. Ummm, Gom didn´t enforce anything? This is like you causing disruptive behavior in the local supermarket and your parents finding out and grounding you for a month.
It's more like stealing something from the supermarket, while causing disruptive behavior, getting escorted out, and then returning the stolen object even though you didn't get caught. CoCa himself made the decision to withdraw from Code S.
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It would be such a shame if Korean weekly lost the Code A spot because of this, I dont know if that was being discused when they said taht they were talking to ESV TV about the Coda A spot or not
GomTV announced that they're still discussing the code A spot with ESV TV and nothing has been confirmed yet.
It is also a shame that a pretty good player like Coca is now not playing in GSL any more, he was fun the watch
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I hate how so many of you are going to give Slayers a free pass on this because it's Slayers. If EG had done this to DeMuslim when he threw games to Idra, people would be bitching at EG nonstop. Huge overreaction by Slayers and their reputation of being assholes to their own players only grows.
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On November 15 2011 14:44 Corrosive wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 14:43 mtn wrote:On November 15 2011 14:42 SenorChang wrote:On November 15 2011 14:40 mizU wrote:On November 15 2011 14:39 SenorChang wrote:On November 15 2011 14:36 mizU wrote:On November 15 2011 14:35 SenorChang wrote:On November 15 2011 14:32 JunkkaGom wrote:On November 15 2011 14:28 setzer wrote:On November 15 2011 14:25 jinixxx123 wrote:
[quote]
so what would you call this? throwing a game? you make no sense, This is match fixing. It was intentional of coca to loose the game.
Did CoCa benefit in anyway leaving the game? no Did the BW match-fixers benefit from what they did? Absolutely People need to stop comparing apples to oranges. Let me say this to people who say that since this isn't as big deal as Savior incident because Coca dind't gain anything and hasn't caused as huge scandal as then, he should be forgiven : Killing some owner of rich company to steal money is just as bad as killing homeless guy for fun. Small or big, match fixing is killing esports That's isn't a good analogy Murder is murder, this is two completely different circumstances Throwing a game, is throwing a game. Throwing a game and match fixing are not the same thing. Match fixing is when you stand to gain something in return for throwing it. Coca didn't stand to gain anything Does it matter? He still threw a game. And publicly. Yes, of course it matters when their careers are on the line, how can you be so dismissive about it? They made a small mistake - something that they would most likely never repeat after seeing the backlash of this incident. I agree some punishment is needed but this is so excessive. Small mistake? It was for Code S spot FFS. He should have been punished, and I'm glad that he was. What? it wasn't for a code s spot. it wasn't even a code a spot -.-
ESV is partnered with GOM just like MLG.
Correct me if Im wrong,.
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On November 15 2011 14:44 JunkkaGom wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 14:37 R1CH wrote:On November 15 2011 14:32 JunkkaGom wrote:On November 15 2011 14:28 setzer wrote:On November 15 2011 14:25 jinixxx123 wrote:On November 15 2011 14:21 Redmark wrote:
It's not match-fixing, Christ.
It's dumb, but it's not match-fixing. Not everyone in jail committed murder. Some of them are there for a couple of nights for getting drunk and punching a guy. so what would you call this? throwing a game? you make no sense, This is match fixing. It was intentional of coca to loose the game. Did CoCa benefit in anyway leaving the game? no Did the BW match-fixers benefit from what they did? Absolutely People need to stop comparing apples to oranges. Let me say this to people who say that since this isn't as big deal as Savior incident because Coca dind't gain anything and hasn't caused as huge scandal as then, he should be forgiven : Killing some owner of rich company to steal money is just as bad as killing homeless guy for fun. Small or big, match fixing is killing esports Ruining pro-gamers careers with ridiculous over-reactions is killing esports. Not some 17 year old kid throwing a game. I am aware that these are just kids and I do feel pitty but I still think this is unacceptable. A 'pro-gamer' should not insult fans who watch the game anticipating good game. Sure many players fail to entertain but there is difference doing it unintentionally and doing it on purpose, not to mention showing it to viewers witout shame or guilt.
They werent intentionally doing it on purpose to insult any fans. They were having a friendly match on a tournament that meant relatively nothing to there careers, so why not have some fun?
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It doesn't matter if the match itself doesn't award a code A spot.
BECAUSE of Coca's actions Byun had the possibility of getting a code A spot that he did NOT DESERVE.
As much as I like Coca and his ZvP, I think that matters like these shouldn't be taken lightly so that people think twice before doing something like this.
Really big mistake by coca
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I don't know this really seems like an over reaction to me. Seems more like a slap on the wrist type of punishment is needed then anything this over the top.
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Wow, did this just happen ? That is nice of coca... but that is not fair at all. A pro game shoud be treated as a pro game, not something where you can throw a game to benifit a friend (its thoughtful, but not fair for other players). It may have been a joke............ but still........ its a tourney.
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On November 15 2011 14:49 slytown wrote:
How is this match fixing? A: He didn't gain anything. It's not match fixing.
How is this failing to represent a team in a tournament? A: It's not. They went on to ANOTHER GAME.
Please reinstate your players please.
Your disregard for understanding the importance of this is not surprising seeing as you have a combatex quote in your sig. The point is:
1. Coca left a game that he was clearly going to win, this winning him the series. He forfeited it and lost the subsequent game, this changing the result of the match to a victory for Byun. So, it did gain Byun something.
2. As mentioned somewhere in the OP, this behavior isn't necessarily warranting of permanent ban from esports or anything, but it does demonstrate that these players do not have the proper attitude towards playing the game if they cannot take the results of these tournaments seriously.
3. The Slayers and Prime teams punishing these players by not allowing them to compete in tournaments is probably helping out Byun and Coca more than anything. The teams are actually stepping up and claiming responsibility for their players actions and punishing them within the team in order to show the GSL that the community at large doesn't need to give out additional punishment to these players. Hopefully if the teams can resolve this "in-house" so to speak, they can teach these players to respect the game and, somewhere down the line, Coca and Byun can eventually begin to compete in tournaments again.
To sum it up, we should be grateful that the teams are mature enough to take this matter into their own hands and to show the community that they are always taking these games seriously (a show of professionalism).
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On November 15 2011 14:54 Corrosive wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 14:53 snafoo wrote:On November 15 2011 14:51 Corrosive wrote:
Would you ban a team from the NHL/NBA/NFL if they messed around during an exhibition game? No, 100% for sure not.
Obviously this game was part of a tournament, and wasn't an exhibition game, but it's similar as it has no effect on any important, serious games. Read the OP before you post. GOM didn't ban him, SlayerS did. Can you show me where i said gom banned him? thanks.
The way you worded your analogy was bad. It's not the league that would do the bannings, it's the team's management.
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On November 15 2011 14:50 R1CH wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 14:44 JunkkaGom wrote:On November 15 2011 14:37 R1CH wrote:On November 15 2011 14:32 JunkkaGom wrote:On November 15 2011 14:28 setzer wrote:On November 15 2011 14:25 jinixxx123 wrote:On November 15 2011 14:21 Redmark wrote:
It's not match-fixing, Christ.
It's dumb, but it's not match-fixing. Not everyone in jail committed murder. Some of them are there for a couple of nights for getting drunk and punching a guy. so what would you call this? throwing a game? you make no sense, This is match fixing. It was intentional of coca to loose the game. Did CoCa benefit in anyway leaving the game? no Did the BW match-fixers benefit from what they did? Absolutely People need to stop comparing apples to oranges. Let me say this to people who say that since this isn't as big deal as Savior incident because Coca dind't gain anything and hasn't caused as huge scandal as then, he should be forgiven : Killing some owner of rich company to steal money is just as bad as killing homeless guy for fun. Small or big, match fixing is killing esports Ruining pro-gamers careers with ridiculous over-reactions is killing esports. Not some 17 year old kid throwing a game. I am aware that these are just kids and I do feel pitty but I still think this is unacceptable. A 'pro-gamer' should not insult fans who watch the game anticipating good game. Sure many players fail to entertain but there is difference doing it unintentionally and doing it on purpose, not to mention showing it to viewers witout shame or guilt. I agree it's unacceptable but I think the punishment in this case (essentially destroying his career) is also unacceptable. An apology and reprimand by SlayerS would have been enough to get the message across.
you would think so wouldn't you but unless you have been working at gom and running esports, bw and sc2 for years, well what am i saying, with your years of experience running the bw and sc2 scene, your probably right.
Side note, career is not ruined, they were not forced to quit by gom and is not banned from competing again. As it said, untill the TEAM decides they are ready. Since it was them that decided to leave on their own, (mostly slayersboxer im guessing since he is a star and has to keep his reputation from bw) the punishment does seem fair, afterall, they are professionals regardless of age.
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On November 15 2011 14:54 Kiyo. wrote:
I hate how so many of you are going to give Slayers a free pass on this because it's Slayers. If EG had done this to DeMuslim when he threw games to Idra, people would be bitching at EG nonstop. Huge overreaction by Slayers and their reputation of being assholes to their own players only grows.
Funny story ...
Demuslim did throw games for IdrA. There wasn't much drama, if I can recall correctly, and everyone got away scott-free.
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On November 15 2011 14:54 mtn wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 14:44 Corrosive wrote:On November 15 2011 14:43 mtn wrote:On November 15 2011 14:42 SenorChang wrote:On November 15 2011 14:40 mizU wrote:On November 15 2011 14:39 SenorChang wrote:On November 15 2011 14:36 mizU wrote:On November 15 2011 14:35 SenorChang wrote:On November 15 2011 14:32 JunkkaGom wrote:On November 15 2011 14:28 setzer wrote:
[quote]
Did CoCa benefit in anyway leaving the game? no
Did the BW match-fixers benefit from what they did? Absolutely
People need to stop comparing apples to oranges. Let me say this to people who say that since this isn't as big deal as Savior incident because Coca dind't gain anything and hasn't caused as huge scandal as then, he should be forgiven : Killing some owner of rich company to steal money is just as bad as killing homeless guy for fun. Small or big, match fixing is killing esports That's isn't a good analogy Murder is murder, this is two completely different circumstances Throwing a game, is throwing a game. Throwing a game and match fixing are not the same thing. Match fixing is when you stand to gain something in return for throwing it. Coca didn't stand to gain anything Does it matter? He still threw a game. And publicly. Yes, of course it matters when their careers are on the line, how can you be so dismissive about it? They made a small mistake - something that they would most likely never repeat after seeing the backlash of this incident. I agree some punishment is needed but this is so excessive. Small mistake? It was for Code S spot FFS. He should have been punished, and I'm glad that he was. What? it wasn't for a code s spot. it wasn't even a code a spot -.- ESV is partnered with GOM just like MLG. Correct me if Im wrong,.
You're wrong.
Dr. Chae explained that this tournament had no code A spot secured, they have yet to discuss 2012 GSL stuff with ESV yet.
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It was kind of stupid for CoCa to do that. I mean if you're not playing to win, just forfeit at the beginning, why play in it at all and gg on 6 bases vs a 1 base Terran?
As for the punishment, I think it's a bit harsh. A couple of days/weeks isolation from the SlayerS house would have sufficed too show that they mean business, but they had to drop him out of Code S? I don't think he expected the punishment, and you can't help feeling sorry for him.
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On November 15 2011 14:54 mtn wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 14:44 Corrosive wrote:On November 15 2011 14:43 mtn wrote:On November 15 2011 14:42 SenorChang wrote:On November 15 2011 14:40 mizU wrote:On November 15 2011 14:39 SenorChang wrote:On November 15 2011 14:36 mizU wrote:On November 15 2011 14:35 SenorChang wrote:On November 15 2011 14:32 JunkkaGom wrote:On November 15 2011 14:28 setzer wrote:
[quote]
Did CoCa benefit in anyway leaving the game? no
Did the BW match-fixers benefit from what they did? Absolutely
People need to stop comparing apples to oranges. Let me say this to people who say that since this isn't as big deal as Savior incident because Coca dind't gain anything and hasn't caused as huge scandal as then, he should be forgiven : Killing some owner of rich company to steal money is just as bad as killing homeless guy for fun. Small or big, match fixing is killing esports That's isn't a good analogy Murder is murder, this is two completely different circumstances Throwing a game, is throwing a game. Throwing a game and match fixing are not the same thing. Match fixing is when you stand to gain something in return for throwing it. Coca didn't stand to gain anything Does it matter? He still threw a game. And publicly. Yes, of course it matters when their careers are on the line, how can you be so dismissive about it? They made a small mistake - something that they would most likely never repeat after seeing the backlash of this incident. I agree some punishment is needed but this is so excessive. Small mistake? It was for Code S spot FFS. He should have been punished, and I'm glad that he was. What? it wasn't for a code s spot. it wasn't even a code a spot -.- ESV is partnered with GOM just like MLG. Correct me if Im wrong,.
You're right but this tournament wasn't for any spots in code A, and it has never been for a code S spot ever.
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EPT
