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On November 15 2011 14:44 JunkkaGom wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 14:37 R1CH wrote:On November 15 2011 14:32 JunkkaGom wrote:On November 15 2011 14:28 setzer wrote:On November 15 2011 14:25 jinixxx123 wrote:On November 15 2011 14:21 Redmark wrote:
It's not match-fixing, Christ.
It's dumb, but it's not match-fixing. Not everyone in jail committed murder. Some of them are there for a couple of nights for getting drunk and punching a guy. so what would you call this? throwing a game? you make no sense, This is match fixing. It was intentional of coca to loose the game. Did CoCa benefit in anyway leaving the game? no Did the BW match-fixers benefit from what they did? Absolutely People need to stop comparing apples to oranges. Let me say this to people who say that since this isn't as big deal as Savior incident because Coca dind't gain anything and hasn't caused as huge scandal as then, he should be forgiven : Killing some owner of rich company to steal money is just as bad as killing homeless guy for fun. Small or big, match fixing is killing esports Ruining pro-gamers careers with ridiculous over-reactions is killing esports. Not some 17 year old kid throwing a game. I am aware that these are just kids and I do feel pitty but I still think this is unacceptable. A 'pro-gamer' should not insult fans who watch the game anticipating good game. Sure many players fail to entertain but there is difference doing it unintentionally and doing it on purpose, not to mention showing it to viewers witout shame or guilt.
According to the ESV TV Korean weekly thread, the people who watched the game really liked it. Let me quote:
On November 15 2011 09:16 Asha` wrote:
lmao at the chat in this game
I love how they are trashtalking each other in English xD
On November 15 2011 09:19 wklbishop wrote:
Interesting chat.
I wonder if GSL allows more chat than what kind of personalities would develop.
On November 15 2011 09:54 wklbishop wrote:
This. is. awesome.
haha. I really can't tell anymore if this is friendly banter or they hate each other or what anymore xD
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On November 15 2011 14:47 setzer wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 14:42 windsupernova wrote:On November 15 2011 14:38 setzer wrote:On November 15 2011 14:32 JunkkaGom wrote:On November 15 2011 14:28 setzer wrote:On November 15 2011 14:25 jinixxx123 wrote:On November 15 2011 14:21 Redmark wrote:
It's not match-fixing, Christ.
It's dumb, but it's not match-fixing. Not everyone in jail committed murder. Some of them are there for a couple of nights for getting drunk and punching a guy. so what would you call this? throwing a game? you make no sense, This is match fixing. It was intentional of coca to loose the game. Did CoCa benefit in anyway leaving the game? no Did the BW match-fixers benefit from what they did? Absolutely People need to stop comparing apples to oranges. Let me say this to people who say that since this isn't as big deal as Savior incident because Coca dind't gain anything and hasn't caused as huge scandal as then, he should be forgiven : Killing some owner of rich company to steal money is just as bad as killing homeless guy for fun. Small or big, match fixing is killing esports Any consequence should be enforced by ESV, the party that is involved in this. If they determine that what CoCa did was unfair to the integrity of the tournament they should ban him for any duration they choose. What is a clear overreaction however is to deny CoCa the opportunity to compete in ALL tournaments, such as MLG and GSL. I won't speak for CoCa but if I did this and the entire team sat down and explained to me what I did was wrong I would realize my mistake. SlayerS and GOM doesn't need to make life-changing decisions to get a point across any more clear than a sit-down and penalty from ESV would have done. And really? comparing a juvenile mistake to planned murder is quite extreme. Gom didn´t enforce anything. It was the teams. The teams themeselves decided the punishment. Last time I checked GSL isn't a team league and has nothing to do with this particular ESV. If I was causing disruptive behavior in the local supermarket I wouldn't get a ban from all the restaurants in the city. Why should CoCa be removed from a party with no affiliation to this incident? Because it reflects negatively on GSL? No, that is silly.
Ya but if the behavior is disruptive enough you coulnd wind up in jail......
People need to understand that if your a profesional at anything your actions have consequences and it dosent matter what tournament its in or even if is in game.
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Would you ban a team from the NHL/NBA/NFL if they messed around during an exhibition game? No, 100% for sure not.
Obviously this game was part of a tournament, and wasn't an exhibition game, but it's similar as it has no effect on any important, serious games.
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Columbine happens.
After a year a student brings a watergun to class and starts shooting at students.
Harmless?
Should the student not be suspended because his future career will be in shambles?
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Match fixing is a pretty shitty term to use because it is an umbrella term that includes a lot of cases. If we are going by definition, then it is the intention of determining the outcome of the games before playing them, and then making it so the pre-determined outcome is the actual outcome.
Here are some (apparent) facts:
1) Coca and Byun had no actual plan to let Byun win
2) They didn't think they were doing anything wrong
3) They weren't trying to hide it
I do think a punishment is due, but if CoCa never gets to play professionally again, that would be unfair.
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bad decision by SlayerS. Coca must be banned permanently.
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On November 15 2011 14:44 JunkkaGom wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 14:37 R1CH wrote:On November 15 2011 14:32 JunkkaGom wrote:On November 15 2011 14:28 setzer wrote:On November 15 2011 14:25 jinixxx123 wrote:On November 15 2011 14:21 Redmark wrote:
It's not match-fixing, Christ.
It's dumb, but it's not match-fixing. Not everyone in jail committed murder. Some of them are there for a couple of nights for getting drunk and punching a guy. so what would you call this? throwing a game? you make no sense, This is match fixing. It was intentional of coca to loose the game. Did CoCa benefit in anyway leaving the game? no Did the BW match-fixers benefit from what they did? Absolutely People need to stop comparing apples to oranges. Let me say this to people who say that since this isn't as big deal as Savior incident because Coca dind't gain anything and hasn't caused as huge scandal as then, he should be forgiven : Killing some owner of rich company to steal money is just as bad as killing homeless guy for fun. Small or big, match fixing is killing esports Ruining pro-gamers careers with ridiculous over-reactions is killing esports. Not some 17 year old kid throwing a game. I am aware that these are just kids and I do feel pitty but I still think this is unacceptable. A 'pro-gamer' should not insult fans who watch the game anticipating good game. Sure many players fail to entertain but there is difference doing it unintentionally and doing it on purpose, not to mention showing it to viewers witout shame or guilt.
So you are insinuating that CoCa had malicious intent? That he doesn't regret his decision at all?
Dante Stallworth committed second-degree manslaughter but he is still in the NFL. CoCa apparently deserves the same punishment (temporary removal from league) for throwing a single game in a small tournament that has nothing to do with GOM.
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On November 15 2011 14:41 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 14:37 babylon wrote:On November 15 2011 14:36 mizU wrote:On November 15 2011 14:35 SenorChang wrote:On November 15 2011 14:32 JunkkaGom wrote:On November 15 2011 14:28 setzer wrote:On November 15 2011 14:25 jinixxx123 wrote:On November 15 2011 14:21 Redmark wrote:
It's not match-fixing, Christ.
It's dumb, but it's not match-fixing. Not everyone in jail committed murder. Some of them are there for a couple of nights for getting drunk and punching a guy. so what would you call this? throwing a game? you make no sense, This is match fixing. It was intentional of coca to loose the game. Did CoCa benefit in anyway leaving the game? no Did the BW match-fixers benefit from what they did? Absolutely People need to stop comparing apples to oranges. Let me say this to people who say that since this isn't as big deal as Savior incident because Coca dind't gain anything and hasn't caused as huge scandal as then, he should be forgiven : Killing some owner of rich company to steal money is just as bad as killing homeless guy for fun. Small or big, match fixing is killing esports That's isn't a good analogy Murder is murder, this is two completely different circumstances Throwing a game, is throwing a game. But throwing a game isn't match-fixing. Since when? Match-fixing doesn't have to be pre-meditated. "dishonest activity to make sure that one team wins a particular sports match" ~http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/british/match-fixing Throwing games on purpose is essentially the same thing as match fixing. It's certainly just as bad. It breaks the same rules, and gives the same unfair advantages to your opponent and the same unfair disadvantages to everyone else in the tournament who has been playing by the rules. It ruins the sanctity of the game. This semantics crap of "match-fixing =/= throwing games, so what Coca did is fine" is really getting annoying.
I don't think you understand why people are making a semantic difference between the two.
Saying that they're different doesn't make what CoCa did okay. But it does mean that what he did is nowhere near as harmful as actual match-fixing.
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That was so stupid on CoCa's part. He's certainly got the talent to at least hold a Code S spot at the moment, but he decided to throw it away on a really, really stupid whim. I know he and Byun were on the same team and likely are friends, but that's just so silly. I don't know exactly how far the punishment will end up going, but he's potentially just killed his career. Even if he's allowed to compete again it's more than likely that he'll have to fight really hard to get back into Code A and then back into Code S. At least if they were going to do this they should have done it outside of the game (I don't condone it in any form, I'm just saying they did it in about the worst way possible). It's a real shame since I was rooting for CoCa to make good on the ability I think he has. *sad face for eSports*
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On November 15 2011 14:44 JunkkaGom wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 14:37 R1CH wrote:On November 15 2011 14:32 JunkkaGom wrote:On November 15 2011 14:28 setzer wrote:On November 15 2011 14:25 jinixxx123 wrote:On November 15 2011 14:21 Redmark wrote:
It's not match-fixing, Christ.
It's dumb, but it's not match-fixing. Not everyone in jail committed murder. Some of them are there for a couple of nights for getting drunk and punching a guy. so what would you call this? throwing a game? you make no sense, This is match fixing. It was intentional of coca to loose the game. Did CoCa benefit in anyway leaving the game? no Did the BW match-fixers benefit from what they did? Absolutely People need to stop comparing apples to oranges. Let me say this to people who say that since this isn't as big deal as Savior incident because Coca dind't gain anything and hasn't caused as huge scandal as then, he should be forgiven : Killing some owner of rich company to steal money is just as bad as killing homeless guy for fun. Small or big, match fixing is killing esports Ruining pro-gamers careers with ridiculous over-reactions is killing esports. Not some 17 year old kid throwing a game. I am aware that these are just kids and I do feel pitty but I still think this is unacceptable. A 'pro-gamer' should not insult fans who watch the game anticipating good game. Sure many players fail to entertain but there is difference doing it unintentionally and doing it on purpose, not to mention showing it to viewers witout shame or guilt.
If you are going to take this line then it is clear that I cannot support korean sc2 again.
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So what was the Saviour incident about?
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This is very unfortunate for both players. Hopefully the scene can sort out and prevent the notion of match-fixing in the future.
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On November 15 2011 14:47 setzer wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 14:42 windsupernova wrote:On November 15 2011 14:38 setzer wrote:On November 15 2011 14:32 JunkkaGom wrote:On November 15 2011 14:28 setzer wrote:On November 15 2011 14:25 jinixxx123 wrote:On November 15 2011 14:21 Redmark wrote:
It's not match-fixing, Christ.
It's dumb, but it's not match-fixing. Not everyone in jail committed murder. Some of them are there for a couple of nights for getting drunk and punching a guy. so what would you call this? throwing a game? you make no sense, This is match fixing. It was intentional of coca to loose the game. Did CoCa benefit in anyway leaving the game? no Did the BW match-fixers benefit from what they did? Absolutely People need to stop comparing apples to oranges. Let me say this to people who say that since this isn't as big deal as Savior incident because Coca dind't gain anything and hasn't caused as huge scandal as then, he should be forgiven : Killing some owner of rich company to steal money is just as bad as killing homeless guy for fun. Small or big, match fixing is killing esports Any consequence should be enforced by ESV, the party that is involved in this. If they determine that what CoCa did was unfair to the integrity of the tournament they should ban him for any duration they choose. What is a clear overreaction however is to deny CoCa the opportunity to compete in ALL tournaments, such as MLG and GSL. I won't speak for CoCa but if I did this and the entire team sat down and explained to me what I did was wrong I would realize my mistake. SlayerS and GOM doesn't need to make life-changing decisions to get a point across any more clear than a sit-down and penalty from ESV would have done. And really? comparing a juvenile mistake to planned murder is quite extreme. Gom didn´t enforce anything. It was the teams. The teams themeselves decided the punishment. Last time I checked GSL isn't a team league and has nothing to do with this particular ESV. If I was causing disruptive behavior in the local supermarket I wouldn't get a ban from all the restaurants in the city. Why should CoCa be removed from a party with no affiliation to this incident? Because it reflects negatively on GSL? No, that is silly.
Ummm, Gom didn´t enforce anything?
This is like you causing disruptive behavior in the local supermarket and your parents finding out and grounding you for a month.
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The emperor has mercy. Coca better hope this doesn't completely end his pro-gaming career. He's so skilled and a much needed zerg force on SlayerS.
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I hope Byun's puppy is fine.
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T_T Coca, why? You were on the fast track to success! 100% ZvP, learning ZvT from SlayerSTerrans and then you had to throw it all away on accident.
Hopefully SlayerS will lift his ban in the near future, I think Byun is the one who should really be punished.
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On November 15 2011 14:51 Corrosive wrote:
Would you ban a team from the NHL/NBA/NFL if they messed around during an exhibition game? No, 100% for sure not.
Obviously this game was part of a tournament, and wasn't an exhibition game, but it's similar as it has no effect on any important, serious games.
Read the OP before you post. GOM didn't ban him, SlayerS did.
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On November 15 2011 14:32 JunkkaGom wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 14:28 setzer wrote:On November 15 2011 14:25 jinixxx123 wrote:On November 15 2011 14:21 Redmark wrote:
It's not match-fixing, Christ.
It's dumb, but it's not match-fixing. Not everyone in jail committed murder. Some of them are there for a couple of nights for getting drunk and punching a guy. so what would you call this? throwing a game? you make no sense, This is match fixing. It was intentional of coca to loose the game. Did CoCa benefit in anyway leaving the game? no Did the BW match-fixers benefit from what they did? Absolutely People need to stop comparing apples to oranges. Let me say this to people who say that since this isn't as big deal as Savior incident because Coca dind't gain anything and hasn't caused as huge scandal as then, he should be forgiven : Killing some owner of rich company to steal money is just as bad as killing homeless guy for fun. Small or big, match fixing is killing esports That's a superstitious / superficial argument, because in this case there's actually no crime or wrongdoing, at all.
The analogy is more like "A serial killer was wearing red clothes" -> "people avoid wearing red clothes since then" -> "Now some guy is wearing red clothes, he must be a killer".
Coca treats many of the games he plays as training environment, winning isn't everything for him. He is young, he builds his style for the future. That's honorable, not dishonorable. So much misinterpretation, I can't believe this is happening.
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Is skill in SC2 inversely proportional to common sense? ~.~
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EPT
