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On November 15 2011 14:40 mizU wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 14:39 SenorChang wrote:On November 15 2011 14:36 mizU wrote:On November 15 2011 14:35 SenorChang wrote:On November 15 2011 14:32 JunkkaGom wrote:On November 15 2011 14:28 setzer wrote:On November 15 2011 14:25 jinixxx123 wrote:On November 15 2011 14:21 Redmark wrote:
It's not match-fixing, Christ.
It's dumb, but it's not match-fixing. Not everyone in jail committed murder. Some of them are there for a couple of nights for getting drunk and punching a guy. so what would you call this? throwing a game? you make no sense, This is match fixing. It was intentional of coca to loose the game. Did CoCa benefit in anyway leaving the game? no Did the BW match-fixers benefit from what they did? Absolutely People need to stop comparing apples to oranges. Let me say this to people who say that since this isn't as big deal as Savior incident because Coca dind't gain anything and hasn't caused as huge scandal as then, he should be forgiven : Killing some owner of rich company to steal money is just as bad as killing homeless guy for fun. Small or big, match fixing is killing esports That's isn't a good analogy Murder is murder, this is two completely different circumstances Throwing a game, is throwing a game. Throwing a game and match fixing are not the same thing. Match fixing is when you stand to gain something in return for throwing it. Coca didn't stand to gain anything Does it matter? He still threw a game. And publicly.
yes it does, because the two are different and the severity is different.
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I don't buy the argument that this is to defend the integrity of esports.
Any punishment for collusion MUST be based on intent. Do you know why? It's because it is impossible to enforce based on observation. It's not like map-hacking, if someone wants to lose a match there is no way to prevent it. You can't take fingerprints, you can't do lie detector tests. Savior was found out because of the betting ring, not because someone noticed he was screwing up his macro.
I'm sure all the potential match-fixers who were going to discuss their conspiracies on in-game chat are quaking in their boots right now.
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Woah, not the best news to wake up to!  SlayerS coming down with the harsh penalty, but fair. He deserves a second chance and will get one.
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On November 15 2011 14:41 Tachion wrote:
So was it Coca's decision to withdraw from Code S? Did SlayerS give him an ultimatum, withdraw or be kicked? Did GOM have a hand in it? Apologies if it's been clarified already.
Slayers just said "please leave for a while". He wasn't released.
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On November 15 2011 14:36 jinixxx123 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 14:28 setzer wrote:On November 15 2011 14:25 jinixxx123 wrote:On November 15 2011 14:21 Redmark wrote:
It's not match-fixing, Christ.
It's dumb, but it's not match-fixing. Not everyone in jail committed murder. Some of them are there for a couple of nights for getting drunk and punching a guy. so what would you call this? throwing a game? you make no sense, This is match fixing. It was intentional of coca to loose the game. Did CoCa benefit in anyway leaving the game? no Did the BW match-fixers benefit from what they did? Absolutely People need to stop comparing apples to oranges. he benefited by helping his friend out aka byun from not getting knocked out of the tournament , Byun needs the CODE A spot, Coca does not need it.. I know its hard for you to understand this, but if you was a random korean in korea trying your very best to get a CODE A spot and you see something like this, it will make your blood boil with rage because lets say coca played seriously against guys who need that CODE A spot also, what then? why dont they deserve free wins too? Its fucking MATCH-FIXING. People in the middle of a game all of a sudden dont get sudden realizations that X player should move on cause hes sorry for him.
The tournament didn't actually reward a Code A spot, I think. Nothing was gained by Byun.
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Maybe instead of making him go to B team, just kick him out and let him do whatever with his code s spot.
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On November 15 2011 14:32 JunkkaGom wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 14:28 setzer wrote:On November 15 2011 14:25 jinixxx123 wrote:On November 15 2011 14:21 Redmark wrote:
It's not match-fixing, Christ.
It's dumb, but it's not match-fixing. Not everyone in jail committed murder. Some of them are there for a couple of nights for getting drunk and punching a guy. so what would you call this? throwing a game? you make no sense, This is match fixing. It was intentional of coca to loose the game. Did CoCa benefit in anyway leaving the game? no Did the BW match-fixers benefit from what they did? Absolutely People need to stop comparing apples to oranges. Let me say this to people who say that since this isn't as big deal as Savior incident because Coca dind't gain anything and hasn't caused as huge scandal as then, he should be forgiven : Killing some owner of rich company to steal money is just as bad as killing homeless guy for fun. Small or big, match fixing is killing esports
John has spoken. Match fixing is KILLING esports!
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On November 15 2011 14:40 mizU wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 14:39 SenorChang wrote:On November 15 2011 14:36 mizU wrote:On November 15 2011 14:35 SenorChang wrote:On November 15 2011 14:32 JunkkaGom wrote:On November 15 2011 14:28 setzer wrote:On November 15 2011 14:25 jinixxx123 wrote:On November 15 2011 14:21 Redmark wrote:
It's not match-fixing, Christ.
It's dumb, but it's not match-fixing. Not everyone in jail committed murder. Some of them are there for a couple of nights for getting drunk and punching a guy. so what would you call this? throwing a game? you make no sense, This is match fixing. It was intentional of coca to loose the game. Did CoCa benefit in anyway leaving the game? no Did the BW match-fixers benefit from what they did? Absolutely People need to stop comparing apples to oranges. Let me say this to people who say that since this isn't as big deal as Savior incident because Coca dind't gain anything and hasn't caused as huge scandal as then, he should be forgiven : Killing some owner of rich company to steal money is just as bad as killing homeless guy for fun. Small or big, match fixing is killing esports That's isn't a good analogy Murder is murder, this is two completely different circumstances Throwing a game, is throwing a game. Throwing a game and match fixing are not the same thing. Match fixing is when you stand to gain something in return for throwing it. Coca didn't stand to gain anything Does it matter? He still threw a game. And publicly.
Yes, of course it matters when their careers are on the line, how can you be so dismissive about it? They made a small mistake - something that they would most likely never repeat after seeing the backlash of this incident.
I agree some punishment is needed but this is so excessive.
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I guess Coca just wanted to give Byun the chance for the spot, but I fully understand why they are being punished. It's a real shame to see him forfeit his code-s spot T.T
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On November 15 2011 14:38 setzer wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 14:32 JunkkaGom wrote:On November 15 2011 14:28 setzer wrote:On November 15 2011 14:25 jinixxx123 wrote:On November 15 2011 14:21 Redmark wrote:
It's not match-fixing, Christ.
It's dumb, but it's not match-fixing. Not everyone in jail committed murder. Some of them are there for a couple of nights for getting drunk and punching a guy. so what would you call this? throwing a game? you make no sense, This is match fixing. It was intentional of coca to loose the game. Did CoCa benefit in anyway leaving the game? no Did the BW match-fixers benefit from what they did? Absolutely People need to stop comparing apples to oranges. Let me say this to people who say that since this isn't as big deal as Savior incident because Coca dind't gain anything and hasn't caused as huge scandal as then, he should be forgiven : Killing some owner of rich company to steal money is just as bad as killing homeless guy for fun. Small or big, match fixing is killing esports Any consequence should be enforced by ESV, the party that is involved in this. If they determine that what CoCa did was unfair to the integrity of the tournament they should ban him for any duration they choose. What is a clear overreaction however is to deny CoCa the opportunity to compete in ALL tournaments, such as MLG and GSL. I won't speak for CoCa but if I did this and the entire team sat down and explained to me what I did was wrong I would realize my mistake. SlayerS and GOM doesn't need to make life-changing decisions to get a point across any more clear than a sit-down and penalty from ESV would have done. And really? comparing a juvenile mistake to planned murder is quite extreme.
Gom didn´t enforce anything. It was the teams. The teams themeselves decided the punishment.
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People shouldnt be surprised from the strong reaction from the korean starcraft community. Choya also got punished for.doing rock, paper, scissors.to decide games.on ladder. I tjink he was banned from the GSL for a couple seasons.
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On November 15 2011 14:40 bigbeau wrote:
Do people actually really not understand the difference between planning before hand to make money and throw games and messing around in a semi-meaningless tournament where nothing is to be gained?
Sports analogy: What happened in BW with savior was like betting on your opponent in an NBA/NFL/MLB game and then purposefully losing. What happened with coca was like playing a pickup game and fucking around and saying start over lets run it back.
Where's your proof that Coca and Byun didn't plan this beforehand? I saw Coca telling Byun that he can have the game in the beginning of game 2. That is enough evidence for match fixing to me. Let's see your evidence that this was just a joke in a meaningless tournament. Why would they even join a tournament that doesn't matter?
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I really wish they would ban in-game chatting in all tournaments
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The kid is not even 18- he probably was just playing around and did not really care. In no way was he match fixing or doing anything serious- He was just having fun- the way the game is meant to be played. They should NOT kick him out of Code S because he is most definitely a top 5 zerg in the world. His talent is undeniable and now they just ruined his career because of his immature illogical behavior.
I really hope SlayerS reconsiders their decision.
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Kind of seems like CoCa and Byun were just having fun, wanted to go to a game 3, not match fixing... shouldn't of been pressured into giving up his Code S spot. Also someone will have a bye into Code S once they win there Ro32 group? And what about Up & Down will be down 1 man. Him leaving messes everything up.
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On November 15 2011 14:42 SenorChang wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 14:40 mizU wrote:On November 15 2011 14:39 SenorChang wrote:On November 15 2011 14:36 mizU wrote:On November 15 2011 14:35 SenorChang wrote:On November 15 2011 14:32 JunkkaGom wrote:On November 15 2011 14:28 setzer wrote:On November 15 2011 14:25 jinixxx123 wrote:On November 15 2011 14:21 Redmark wrote:
It's not match-fixing, Christ.
It's dumb, but it's not match-fixing. Not everyone in jail committed murder. Some of them are there for a couple of nights for getting drunk and punching a guy. so what would you call this? throwing a game? you make no sense, This is match fixing. It was intentional of coca to loose the game. Did CoCa benefit in anyway leaving the game? no Did the BW match-fixers benefit from what they did? Absolutely People need to stop comparing apples to oranges. Let me say this to people who say that since this isn't as big deal as Savior incident because Coca dind't gain anything and hasn't caused as huge scandal as then, he should be forgiven : Killing some owner of rich company to steal money is just as bad as killing homeless guy for fun. Small or big, match fixing is killing esports That's isn't a good analogy Murder is murder, this is two completely different circumstances Throwing a game, is throwing a game. Throwing a game and match fixing are not the same thing. Match fixing is when you stand to gain something in return for throwing it. Coca didn't stand to gain anything Does it matter? He still threw a game. And publicly. Yes, of course it matters when their careers are on the line, how can you be so dismissive about it? They made a small mistake - something that they would most likely never repeat after seeing the backlash of this incident. I agree some punishment is needed but this is so excessive.
Small mistake? It was for Code S spot FFS.
He should have been punished, and I'm glad that he was.
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Lets start a petition for Coca and Byun to be re-instated back onto there teams ^_^
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On November 15 2011 14:41 babylon wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 14:39 mizU wrote:On November 15 2011 14:37 babylon wrote:On November 15 2011 14:36 mizU wrote:On November 15 2011 14:35 SenorChang wrote:On November 15 2011 14:32 JunkkaGom wrote:On November 15 2011 14:28 setzer wrote:On November 15 2011 14:25 jinixxx123 wrote:On November 15 2011 14:21 Redmark wrote:
It's not match-fixing, Christ.
It's dumb, but it's not match-fixing. Not everyone in jail committed murder. Some of them are there for a couple of nights for getting drunk and punching a guy. so what would you call this? throwing a game? you make no sense, This is match fixing. It was intentional of coca to loose the game. Did CoCa benefit in anyway leaving the game? no Did the BW match-fixers benefit from what they did? Absolutely People need to stop comparing apples to oranges. Let me say this to people who say that since this isn't as big deal as Savior incident because Coca dind't gain anything and hasn't caused as huge scandal as then, he should be forgiven : Killing some owner of rich company to steal money is just as bad as killing homeless guy for fun. Small or big, match fixing is killing esports That's isn't a good analogy Murder is murder, this is two completely different circumstances Throwing a game, is throwing a game. But throwing a game isn't match-fixing. It's STILL throwing a game. Matching-fixing requires one party to throw a game, yes. But throwing a game is not the same, nor is it anywhere near as serious as match-fixing.
It's such a big deal because of the BW scandal. It's like a school shooting happens in your school, then you bring an airsoft gun to school the next year. It's not a big deal, slap on the wrist?
They should know better.
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On November 15 2011 14:37 Cobbbler wrote:
Coca's punishment seems really severe. I don't understand how this would be different than if Coca saw that he was playing Byun, and decided to withdraw because Byun is his friend. Some people might even see that as noble.
Coca wasn't getting paid on the side, he wasn't trying to make anyone think he legitimately lost, and he wasn't planning to benefit in any way from losing. As a matter-a-fact, he was just throwing his friend a bone. And people are getting upset over that.
However do remember this isn't a charity event. They are playing in an event made for public viewing, where they expect the best wins. People don't tune in to expect lesser players win based on throwing games.
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On November 15 2011 14:41 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 14:37 babylon wrote:On November 15 2011 14:36 mizU wrote:On November 15 2011 14:35 SenorChang wrote:On November 15 2011 14:32 JunkkaGom wrote:On November 15 2011 14:28 setzer wrote:On November 15 2011 14:25 jinixxx123 wrote:On November 15 2011 14:21 Redmark wrote:
It's not match-fixing, Christ.
It's dumb, but it's not match-fixing. Not everyone in jail committed murder. Some of them are there for a couple of nights for getting drunk and punching a guy. so what would you call this? throwing a game? you make no sense, This is match fixing. It was intentional of coca to loose the game. Did CoCa benefit in anyway leaving the game? no Did the BW match-fixers benefit from what they did? Absolutely People need to stop comparing apples to oranges. Let me say this to people who say that since this isn't as big deal as Savior incident because Coca dind't gain anything and hasn't caused as huge scandal as then, he should be forgiven : Killing some owner of rich company to steal money is just as bad as killing homeless guy for fun. Small or big, match fixing is killing esports That's isn't a good analogy Murder is murder, this is two completely different circumstances Throwing a game, is throwing a game. But throwing a game isn't match-fixing. Since when? Match-fixing doesn't have to be pre-meditated. "dishonest activity to make sure that one team wins a particular sports match" ~http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/british/match-fixing Throwing games on purpose is essentially the same thing as match fixing. It's certainly just as bad. It breaks the same rules, and gives the same unfair advantages to your opponent and the same unfair disadvantages to everyone else in the tournament who has been playing by the rules. It ruins the sanctity of the game. This semantics crap of "match-fixing =/= throwing games, so what Coca did is fine" is really getting annoying.
So by your logic, stephano, demuslim and stork are all match fixers?
not that what coca did is fine, but it's definitely not match fixing, and I personally think his punishment is too much
If code A seed was related to this, I would say his punishment is adequate, but it isnt.
coca basically let his friend win (to try to win money) and did it blatantly because he's an idiot, and didn't hurt anyone else.
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EPT
