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anrimayu
United States875 Posts
On November 15 2011 14:35 SenorChang wrote: That's isn't a good analogy Murder is murder, this is two completely different circumstances Match fixing is match fixing. What's your point? | ||
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jinixxx123
543 Posts
On November 15 2011 14:28 setzer wrote: Did CoCa benefit in anyway leaving the game? no Did the BW match-fixers benefit from what they did? Absolutely People need to stop comparing apples to oranges. he benefited by helping his friend out aka byun from not getting knocked out of the tournament , Byun needs the CODE A spot, Coca does not need it.. I know its hard for you to understand this, but if you was a random korean in korea trying your very best to get a CODE A spot and you see something like this, it will make your blood boil with rage because lets say coca played seriously against guys who need that CODE A spot also, what then? why dont they deserve free wins too? Its fucking MATCH-FIXING. People in the middle of a game all of a sudden dont get sudden realizations that X player should move on cause hes sorry for him. | ||
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Nemireck
Canada1875 Posts
On November 15 2011 14:35 SenorChang wrote: That's isn't a good analogy Murder is murder, this is two completely different circumstances And collusion is collusion. Whether your fixing matches for personal gain, or letting a friend take a free win when he asks you to leave a won game. | ||
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On November 15 2011 14:33 duk3 wrote: I think that the punishment was a bit of an overreaction, but this will probably be beneficial in the future to set a hard stance on any kind of screwing around with match results (Blizzcon...). Additionally, this could all actually be a setup by Mr. Chae to get IdrA back into Code S as fast as possible. If you think there was match fixing at blizzcon please put some proof rather then just assuming lol. For the MVP vs nestea finals think what do either of them gain from match fixing? What does MVP gain? What does nestea gain? NOTHING except 25 thousand dollars. If they were "splitting" the first place prize why would it matter who won then? Both of them were finals guaranteed one of them was going to win. So you should think of a motive as to why they would match fix at the finals of blizzcon. Neither would gain anything from it so with no motive I am positive they did not make it so MVP would win. If anything if they would match fix they would have it so nestea would win because he never beats MVP when it really matters (while he beat him at blizzcon one time he couldn't beat him where it really counted). | ||
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mizU
United States12125 Posts
On November 15 2011 14:35 SenorChang wrote: That's isn't a good analogy Murder is murder, this is two completely different circumstances Throwing a game, is throwing a game. | ||
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Oreo7
United States1647 Posts
On November 15 2011 14:32 JunkkaGom wrote: Let me say this to people who say that since this isn't as big deal as Savior incident because Coca dind't gain anything and hasn't caused as huge scandal as then, he should be forgiven : Killing some owner of rich company to steal money is just as bad as killing homeless guy for fun. Small or big, match fixing is killing esports John I love you and I probably agree with you but just be aware that you are speaking from an eastern perspective on a western board. These snap decisions tend to bring out the extremities of both cultures. | ||
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Cobbbler
United States60 Posts
Coca wasn't getting paid on the side, he wasn't trying to make anyone think he legitimately lost, and he wasn't planning to benefit in any way from losing. As a matter-a-fact, he was just throwing his friend a bone. And people are getting upset over that. | ||
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Vahriel
Australia73 Posts
On November 15 2011 14:32 JunkkaGom wrote: Let me say this to people who say that since this isn't as big deal as Savior incident because Coca dind't gain anything and hasn't caused as huge scandal as then, he should be forgiven : Killing some owner of rich company to steal money is just as bad as killing homeless guy for fun. Small or big, match fixing is killing esports This is exactly correct, it doesn't matter if they just did this on a whim, or, wether it was preordained, It is match-fixing, in it's most basic form, he lost the game intentionally, and also, very blatantly. To be honest, both CoCa and Byun deserve all of this; if it were any less, people might start getting more and more ideas about match-fixing, and thinking they can get away with an easy punishment. It's unfortunate, but an example has to be made. This issue cannot be taken lightly. | ||
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babylon
8765 Posts
But throwing a game isn't match-fixing. | ||
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R1CH
Netherlands10342 Posts
On November 15 2011 14:32 JunkkaGom wrote: Let me say this to people who say that since this isn't as big deal as Savior incident because Coca dind't gain anything and hasn't caused as huge scandal as then, he should be forgiven : Killing some owner of rich company to steal money is just as bad as killing homeless guy for fun. Small or big, match fixing is killing esports Ruining pro-gamers careers with ridiculous over-reactions is killing esports. Not some 17 year old kid throwing a game. | ||
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DeltruS
Canada2214 Posts
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setzer
United States3284 Posts
On November 15 2011 14:32 JunkkaGom wrote: Let me say this to people who say that since this isn't as big deal as Savior incident because Coca dind't gain anything and hasn't caused as huge scandal as then, he should be forgiven : Killing some owner of rich company to steal money is just as bad as killing homeless guy for fun. Small or big, match fixing is killing esports Any consequence should be enforced by ESV, the party that is involved in this. If they determine that what CoCa did was unfair to the integrity of the tournament they should ban him for any duration they choose. What is a clear overreaction however is to deny CoCa the opportunity to compete in ALL tournaments, such as MLG and GSL. I won't speak for CoCa but if I did this and the entire team sat down and explained to me what I did was wrong I would realize my mistake. SlayerS and GOM doesn't need to make life-changing decisions to get a point across any more clear than a sit-down and penalty from ESV would have done. And really? comparing a juvenile mistake to planned murder is quite extreme. | ||
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Fubi
2228 Posts
On November 15 2011 14:32 JunkkaGom wrote: Let me say this to people who say that since this isn't as big deal as Savior incident because Coca dind't gain anything and hasn't caused as huge scandal as then, he should be forgiven : Killing some owner of rich company to steal money is just as bad as killing homeless guy for fun. Small or big, match fixing is killing esports I don't agree with this analogy. Murder is definitely murder, SOMEONE ELSE besides the person/party involved got hurt big time (lost his life). A better analogy would be: 1) Robbing the bank vs 2) Stealing your classmate's cell phone to prank him for 2), at worst if you're still young, you'll get a warning letter from the school. But this is like instantly failing him and kicking him out of the school for a prank like that, what? | ||
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mistax
United States415 Posts
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CosmicSpiral
United States15275 Posts
On November 15 2011 14:34 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: How do you know he wouldn't have benefitted if Byun had actually won something by progressing (and possibly winning money)? Even if it wasn't pre-meditated, a thank you reward might have been considered. They are, after all, friends. And it's not apples and oranges. Coca threw games, and therefore jeopardized the sanctity of SC2 tournament play. Whether you want to call it "match-fixing" or "throwing games" is irrelevant. He still broke rules and allowed the progression of an opponent who shouldn't have moved up, thus making it completely unfair to everyone else who works hard in that tournament. It's bullshit. I don't see any wrist-slaps for Demuslim or Stephano. | ||
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Deshkar
Singapore1244 Posts
The asians/koreans see it as a damage/insult to the professionalism and legitimacy of Starcraft 2, whereas the west sees it as a mere trivial matter within a PC game tournament. I really want Starcraft 2 to grow. Anyhow, match fixing is match fixing, and it hurts SC2's attempt to legitimize itself and E-Sports. For CoCa and Byun to do so blatantly is borderline insulting to the viewers and people who have worked hard for Starcraft 2 thus far. | ||
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_Depression
United States251 Posts
On November 15 2011 14:32 JunkkaGom wrote: Let me say this to people who say that since this isn't as big deal as Savior incident because Coca dind't gain anything and hasn't caused as huge scandal as then, he should be forgiven : Killing some owner of rich company to steal money is just as bad as killing homeless guy for fun. Small or big, match fixing is killing esports I think a better analogy would be the Pete Rose betting scandal. When Pete Rose was a player-manager for the Cincinnati Reds, he bet on professional baseball games, including ones that his own team played in. Now, there's no evidence that he purposely tried to lose a game to win a bet, or even that he ever bet against his team. But because betting on an MLB game is against the rules for anyone in the MLB, he was banned from the league for life. Both Coca and Byun made a similar blunder here. Some things are just not allowed in professional play, and throwing a game is certainly one of them. They deserve whatever punishment their teams hand down to them. | ||
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Stanlot
United States5742 Posts
On November 15 2011 14:35 SenorChang wrote: That's isn't a good analogy Murder is murder, this is two completely different circumstances But either way, it's still damaging to the validity of the pro SC2 scene, especially if it's happening in Korea and between two well known players. | ||
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Deshkar
Singapore1244 Posts
On November 15 2011 14:38 CosmicSpiral wrote: I don't see any wrist-slaps for Demuslim or Stephano. That's cos the west and their tournaments are rarely leagues, and they also dont seem to possess the same long term serious viewpoints with regards to SC2/esports. | ||
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mizU
United States12125 Posts
It's STILL throwing a game. | ||
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