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On November 09 2011 21:25 ryckon wrote:
people like u are a cancer for everything called esport. stop killing esport and start working at mcdonalds
Even working at mcdonalds would be a bliss for him. Gus is such a freaking joke.He's making the SEA e-sports scene look bad as hell. This guy doesn't deserve to be leading the e-sports scene as a manager. This guys is just a douchebag. Just fixed the problems you caused and GTFO of the e-sports.
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On November 09 2011 21:13 ct2299 wrote:
TL bans randoms for stupid stuff, but doesn't ban this piece of trash Gus, even though he's been proven from multiple sources to be a scammer. The moment I heard about PPSL I knew it would be a joke, and I was right. Can't trust those people.
I'm sure he'll be banned after everything is sorted out. Banning him now won't solve anything and would actually hinder the flow of information to us on what's actually going on right now. It's actually a good thing he can still post here.
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On November 09 2011 21:54 FakeDeath wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2011 21:25 ryckon wrote:
people like u are a cancer for everything called esport. stop killing esport and start working at mcdonalds Even working at mcdonalds would be a bliss for him. Gus is such a freaking joke.He's making the SEA e-sports scene look bad as hell. This guy doesn't deserve to be leading the e-sports scene as a manager. This guys is just a douchebag. Just fixed the problems you caused and GTFO of the e-sports.
He is also making white collar criminals look bad too, it's like amateur hour watching this shit.
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This entire thing is just a debacle. AZK is just shameful. The damage you have done to independent tournaments will take years to repair. You, quite literally, F'd everyone in the community. Large sponsors will not be hesitant to be involved with small tournaments (small=new organizers), teams will hesitate to send players and everyone will have a guilty-until-paid-out cloud over their heads.
I have no idea what happened, what is happening, all I know is that you all should be ashamed.
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Dox should have run this tournament, or at least someone who had proven himself the the community. This is pathetic. Trust in independent tournaments will be fractured now.
Prove yourself first, then get thousands of dollars to run a tournament: that's the way it should work.
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Oh man, this sounds really bad. Poor Amanda. Hope shell be ok. =/
Btw fuck you Gus. This could have been such a big event. This could have been so beneficial as a stepping stone for the growth of eSports in SEA, but of all the events that have been so successfully organized by literally everyone here, you just had to FUCK it up. I can't remember the last time I was this pissed over something on the Internet before. Really if I could meet you in real life I would have shoved my shoes in your frickin mouth. Inbred swine.
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pay the money you mist pay and then get out never come back, i do not wants to ever hear about you after you paid the last cent of the money you stole....
you're killing esports
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lol.
Actions>words. Please take care of the mess you've made before looking to the community for any kind of forgiveness. Although at this point what you should be aiming for is to just not be reviled.
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On November 09 2011 22:06 moge wrote:
This entire thing is just a debacle. AZK is just shameful. The damage you have done to independent tournaments will take years to repair. You, quite literally, F'd everyone in the community. Large sponsors will not be hesitant to be involved with small tournaments (small=new organizers), teams will hesitate to send players and everyone will have a guilty-until-paid-out cloud over their heads.
I have no idea what happened, what is happening, all I know is that you all should be ashamed.
Chill out... holy shit. Yes this Gus character is a complete douche and deserves to be legally punished as well as banned from the SC2 community but its not like he represents a large portion of the scene or anything. Hell, I'm sure 95% of TL didnt know who he was or who AZK was until this shit hit the fan, I sure didn't. The first I'd ever heard of AZK was the short article of them acquiring NEXsickness. He didn't fuck everyone in the community, just himself and anyone who was affiliated with him. People should be smart enough to realize this is an independent event and that this total DBAG in no way represents the SC2 community. At least I hope this doesn't have long standing repercussions ;\ And honestly, this guy is just a total moron, does he know how much richer IGN is than him? He is gonna get slammed if they pursue litigation.
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United States892 Posts
On November 09 2011 22:55 SupLilSon wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2011 22:06 moge wrote:
This entire thing is just a debacle. AZK is just shameful. The damage you have done to independent tournaments will take years to repair. You, quite literally, F'd everyone in the community. Large sponsors will not be hesitant to be involved with small tournaments (small=new organizers), teams will hesitate to send players and everyone will have a guilty-until-paid-out cloud over their heads.
I have no idea what happened, what is happening, all I know is that you all should be ashamed. Chill out... holy shit. Yes this Gus character is a complete douche and deserves to be legally punished as well as banned from the SC2 community but its not like he represents a large portion of the scene or anything. Hell, I'm sure 95% of TL didnt know who he was or who AZK was until this shit hit the fan, I sure didn't. The first I'd ever heard of AZK was the short article of them acquiring NEXsickness. He didn't fuck everyone in the community, just himself and anyone who was affiliated with him. People should be smart enough to realize this is an independent event and that this total DBAG in no way represents the SC2 community. At least I hope this doesn't have long standing repercussions ;\ And honestly, this guy is just a total moron, does he know how much richer IGN is than him? He is gonna get slammed if they pursue litigation.
The fact that it happened though is no doubt gonna be a red flag for a lot of companies who are looking for maybe a safer avenue of advertising.
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can't anyone get the OP's address and take him hostage? Honestly, this is not some pocket money, I would truely consider attacking this guy physically -.-
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you need to gtfo and never come/look back.
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Also, don't blame AZK, blame Gus since he pretty much screwed his own team over as well. From what I've heard some of the AZK members actually made this tournament watchable on day 2.
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On November 09 2011 21:59 Newbistic wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2011 21:13 ct2299 wrote:
TL bans randoms for stupid stuff, but doesn't ban this piece of trash Gus, even though he's been proven from multiple sources to be a scammer. The moment I heard about PPSL I knew it would be a joke, and I was right. Can't trust those people. I'm sure he'll be banned after everything is sorted out. Banning him now won't solve anything and would actually hinder the flow of information to us on what's actually going on right now. It's actually a good thing he can still post here.
QFT. Banning him just gives him another avenue to slip away.
As for the whole thing I've only skim read, but sounds like this guy has done a lot of wheeling and dealing and screwed a lot of people in the process, what a waste of an opportunity to help create something positive in SEA. As for the HoN tourney, that was downright shameful.
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United Kingdom16710 Posts
He really is a witch doctor if he thinks this will be anything close to what the community & involved parties want.
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On November 09 2011 17:40 YoonYJ wrote:
I do not know the law in manila but from judging what I have heard the law isnt like what it is in australia. A message from Amanda:
He said hell try to get me the payment due to me because we are friends and he doesnt want me to lose faith... This is why i had to take measures and inform gunrun and gunrun let me speak to david ting this morning
Yes he said hes fonna get me the fund to pay the 516
Didn't want to get involved here but I have to clarify: You cannot get jailed for debt here in the Philippines. It's a Constitutional prohibition (Sec 20 Art III - Bill of Rights).
On November 09 2011 18:12 rijndael wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2011 18:06 Capped wrote:
What was the point in this post? "I'd like to help you but i wont cos i cant trust u and dont actually have money, LOL!" ...I dont get it.
This guy is a fucking joke anyway, cant believe the shit he's pulling. Hope it all gets sorted and best of luck to whoever is still in the shit, at the very least i hope you get to squeeze his balls. I posted this because if jailtime really came into play, then yes, i am willing to loan out some of the cash to help, but as i said, 500k is hard to shoulder alone (that's almost a year's salary here). I was just doing this as a gesture, but since Amanda has until the 21st, then i guess there really was no point, was there? I'm just curious if the travel agency she contacted was locally based here in the Philippines.
Jail time won't come into play, but interest will. Considering there was no fraud here (which is an element that must be proved - equivalent to bad faith on the part of the debtor), it's probably going to be 12% (annual legal interest) from the time the debt became due. There are other rules on interest (especially if this reaches litigation) but at least, that's the general amount.
On November 09 2011 18:31 17Sphynx17 wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On November 09 2011 18:26 skeldark wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2011 18:02 17Sphynx17 wrote:
1. The problem with the issue with Amanda is its doubtful she has a legally binding contract that states that Gus is the one that is assigned to pay the obligations and that she is merely a representative.
2. They most likely are not legally registered as a corporation or group with the government, which means the heirarchy of manager, travel agent, staff etc can be something that is denied and claimed as heresay if it were to reach court.
3. If ever she has a document that states such, I doubt it is a notarized contract but simply an agreement that is most likely a photocopy only and not a certified true copy. (She trusted in Gus too much) This documentations are helpful but not needed. The people there, the twitter messages and so on is enough proof that she worked by his order. If it comes hard to hard, i think she would win on court and can show that she is the wrong person to sue. But hope they find a way it clear it out earlier. Show nested quote +
4. I really have trouble understanding and comprehending how in the world Amanda willingly signed for 700k php worth of travel tickets as a guarantor without expressly writing that Gus is also party to it.
dont understand this part too. Btw what is this jail thing about? you dont get into jail because you can not pay your bills when its not even 100% clear its your bills. I think they panic a little bit. Well, I don't think it's jail but since she guaranteed for it, she is obligated to pay for it. Which means, if she can not pay on the due date, it would either be an arrangement of payment terms staggered throughout a certain span of time of 6 months to a few years. But all obligations would fall on her. She could possibly go to jail though is she issued dated checks where the accounts do not have the balance necessary to clear them. Estafa is the case if I'm not mistaken.
It wouldn't be Estafa under the Revised Penal Code since that requires the element of deceit. The applicable criminal law here is BP 22, which refers to the issuance of bouncing checks. Now, in practice, this doesn't lead to jail time (there are instances when it does though). BP 22 cases are used to intimidate debtors to pay up (lest they face a costly, and lengthy indictment). While the possibility exists that a case like this be brought against Amanda, I highly doubt it.
In any event, I suggest a re-negotiation of the terms of the contract with the agency (in relation to payment and maturity of the debt) to afford her breathing room. This is especially important if the community will have to raise funds (i.e. if the money cannot be collected from Gus asap).
On November 09 2011 19:05 rijndael wrote:
The problem with the lawsuit angle is that even if it gets off the ground, the philippine justice system is such a giant clusterfuck that it will take millenia before the suit is even resolved.
It depends on the case. Collection cases run quite fast. A case of this nature shouldn't even reach the courts (should be settled out of court, and just negotiate for penalty interest).
I hope this helps calm everyone's minds. I've been reading up on this event with great interest and wouldn't mind clarifying legal questions.
PS: My opinion is that Gus should not be brought to court. Do you guys really want that aggravation??? And he won't be jailed, just forced to pay. I hope the community just pressures him into paying off the people he needs to pay off (those who covered certain expenses like Amanda and TGR).
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edit: nvm! post above mine cleared stuff up
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On November 09 2011 23:12 BrodiaQ wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2011 22:55 SupLilSon wrote:On November 09 2011 22:06 moge wrote:
This entire thing is just a debacle. AZK is just shameful. The damage you have done to independent tournaments will take years to repair. You, quite literally, F'd everyone in the community. Large sponsors will not be hesitant to be involved with small tournaments (small=new organizers), teams will hesitate to send players and everyone will have a guilty-until-paid-out cloud over their heads.
I have no idea what happened, what is happening, all I know is that you all should be ashamed. Chill out... holy shit. Yes this Gus character is a complete douche and deserves to be legally punished as well as banned from the SC2 community but its not like he represents a large portion of the scene or anything. Hell, I'm sure 95% of TL didnt know who he was or who AZK was until this shit hit the fan, I sure didn't. The first I'd ever heard of AZK was the short article of them acquiring NEXsickness. He didn't fuck everyone in the community, just himself and anyone who was affiliated with him. People should be smart enough to realize this is an independent event and that this total DBAG in no way represents the SC2 community. At least I hope this doesn't have long standing repercussions ;\ And honestly, this guy is just a total moron, does he know how much richer IGN is than him? He is gonna get slammed if they pursue litigation. The fact that it happened though is no doubt gonna be a red flag for a lot of companies who are looking for maybe a safer avenue of advertising.
Exactly. While the specific incident has everything to do with AZK Gus the overall incident has a wider implication on every single tournament moving forward. granted some of these changes will be for the better but the very fact that a sponsor, team or player will, even for a moment, question their involvement in a new tournament or doubt their participation just because the organizer is 'unknown' is bad for the sport.
It is sad, yet inevitable that this happened. How we move forward is also important. If we let this single incident taint future [unknown] organizers it will be a bad turn. If we use this incident to apply lessons learned then I think we can grow from it.
edit: Seiniyta is right. AZK, in an odd way can very much redeem themselves as a team - obviously, it would need to be a team without Gus, though. If the team can band together I think they can come out of this for the better.
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Wow, I have been reading through this debacle for the last hour and all I can say is Gus, you're a sad excuse for a human being.
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EPT
