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i.of.the.storm
United States795 Posts
On November 08 2011 13:41 aeroblaster wrote: What's the new decal? I'm really super curious!  Also curious about the blizzcon decal, is it available? I personally think decals are much cooler than portraits anyway, and since I'm too lazy to actually get 500 wins (I think my play time exponentially decayed each season...) this is the easiest way for me to get a decal (since I was in fact at Blizzcon). | ||
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rEalGuapo
Germany832 Posts
On November 08 2011 19:15 VPFaith wrote: I think Feedbacks should not be killing the unit completely, rather, drains Health to 1 HP. What do you guys think, I mean infestors can be saved =) I suggest that because someone told me a unit in Broodwar cannot kill the unit but can only get the unit to like 1HP or something? Correct me if im wrong. That would be a change that only affects gameplay at high level, exactly where Protoss struggles.... I wouldn't mind though, since I rather use feedback in order to prevent spell casting than killing units (except medivacs) I would be ok with that, if Fungal Growth would not make massive units immobile, hate to see my mothership get held in place by a bit of green goo... + Storm detects invis units, Fungal Growth and EMP do, why not Storm!? | ||
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Deimos0
Poland277 Posts
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ThatGuy89
United Kingdom1968 Posts
'Chronoboosted on cheaper upgrades makes the deathball even stronger' Yea but you'll have fuck all economy cos you wont be able to chrono probes as much. Fewer collosus, or the attack comes later and upgrades like blink charge and thermal lance will all be taking longer, making the attack later i think you'll struggle to see a game where you can say that the toss won due to upgrades being slightly cheaper | ||
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yeint
Estonia2329 Posts
On November 08 2011 19:40 AmericanUmlaut wrote: So not only does Blizzard need to make the game well balanced and entertaining to watch at the highest levels, and it needs to be balanced for bronzies, but it also has to be balanced when played on computers that can't render the game's graphics? Should SC2 also be balanced for players who can't afford a keyboard? Is it really necessary to argue everything with ridiculous hyperbole? 1. I am not saying EMP does not need to be dealt with, but perhaps there are better ways of doing it, and assuming that those will make pro-level games less entertaining to watch is completely baseless. 2. It doesn't need to be balanced for bronzies, it needs to be balanced bronze through diamond, i.e. for 98% of players. I was just addressing the idea that overpowered things are perfectly fine as long as GSL-level micro can defeat them. 3. It doesn't need to be balanced for shitty computers. My point was that this illustrates a volatility in the TvP matchup that works both ways. Terran gets perfect EMPs off, toss is dead, the entire 20 minutes of macro and harass and strategy are gone in 1 second. Or the Protoss gets perfect forcefields off, terran is equally dead. EMP and forcefield are part of an arms race to deny retreating and force all engagements to end the game then and there. This doesn't exist in TvZ, or PvZ to such an extent. | ||
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yeint
Estonia2329 Posts
On November 08 2011 19:41 SeaSwift wrote: -> If you are complaining about Shield upgrade speed I don't want to discuss anything with you anyway, as you have clearly fallen into the land of Cheshire cats and the Queen of Hearts. I'm not complaining about the upgrades at all. I am perfectly fine with the change. I'm simply saying that yes, making an upgrade cheaper will let you get it marginally faster without cutting into unit production. | ||
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ULuMuGuLu
190 Posts
i'm a Diamond-Protoss and i'm pretty happy about this changes. I kinda hate the PvT nowadays, but maybe this will change my opinion about that Matchup. I'll try some 2/2 Timing Pushes i guess :-) let's see how they work out on Ladder. But another thing: What about that Portrait from Blizzcon 2011, didn't they say it will be released in the new Patch too? Anyone seen a screenshot of it now? Cause i didnt and i'm wondering why nobody talks about it on SEA Blizzard Forums. Maybe everybody forgot about Blizzards promise already? | ||
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rauk
United States2228 Posts
On November 08 2011 19:30 yeint wrote: We shouldn't have pro-gamer level spellcasting micro to be able to win TvP (or vice versa). I understand that balancing should address concerns at the very highest skill levels first and foremost, but if Blizzard wants people to buy their games, they need to at least attempt to correct things in ways that don't break bronze through diamond, because that comprises literally 98% of people who paid $60 for their game. I personally can't get good EMPs off consistently because my computer is a piece of shit that occasionally drops to 5-10 FPS during big protoss laser beam/storm battles. This change will make it even harder. This doesn't break things in TvZ or TvT, because army positioning and composition matters much more than landing individual spells in a 1 second window. you don't have to have progamer level EMPs because your opponent is equally as bad as you are and thus doesn't have progamer level storms. and even if a certain strategy is easier at a certain level, you can always overcome it by just getting better. in broodwar you don't win TvP below the C- level (which is like 99.999999% of all bw players) because terran is fucking impossible to play, but terran is also the strongest and most successful race in korea. imagine if blizzard attempted to buff terran just because it was too hard to play for newbies? there'd be literally nothing but terran at the pro level. it doesn't matter if bronze to masters is "broken" because you can always win by playing better. the auto-mm should make it so that it's invisible to you anyways, since people who abuse a strategy will just get moved up to a higher mmr and you'll only face people who execute that strategy poorly. | ||
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Quartal
140 Posts
I usually play toss, but was offracing as Terran on ladder in a PvT and got a bit of a shock when I tried to EMP his army. I think this is a good change in general, as it prevents a Protoss army from being spammed with blanket EMPs and then crushed, and makes EMP placement and usage a finer and more difficult art. | ||
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Heavenly
2172 Posts
On November 08 2011 19:30 yeint wrote: We shouldn't have pro-gamer level spellcasting micro to be able to win TvP (or vice versa). I understand that balancing should address concerns at the very highest skill levels first and foremost, but if Blizzard wants people to buy their games, they need to at least attempt to correct things in ways that don't break bronze through diamond, because that comprises literally 98% of people who paid $60 for their game. I personally can't get good EMPs off consistently because my computer is a piece of shit that occasionally drops to 5-10 FPS during big protoss laser beam/storm battles. This change will make it even harder. This doesn't break things in TvZ or TvT, because army positioning and composition matters much more than landing individual spells in a 1 second window. Uh, what? So Blizzard should balance this game around whether or not your computer has enough FPS to make it easy for you to EMP? Buy a better computer or don't play the game. My computer can't run a ton of games from after 2010, I just don't play them even if I really want to, deal with it. What was the point of you even writing this? Also lol at people still whining that this will break anything. Unbelievable. Some people are even arguing that it's going to break diamond level or whatever, except I doubt diamond level build orders are considered down to the last 50/50 at specific seconds or a build doesn't work. If it somehow does influence diamond/masters level, which it won't, then maybe the terrans losing to it just don't have diamond level TvP. | ||
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blackbrrd
Norway477 Posts
On November 08 2011 20:07 iREight wrote: Holy crap EMP is small... I usually play toss, but was offracing as Terran on ladder in a PvT and got a bit of a shock when I tried to EMP his army. I think this is a good change in general, as it prevents a Protoss army from being spammed with blanket EMPs and then crushed, and makes EMP placement and usage a finer and more difficult art. Holy crap EMP and Storm are small you mean? They are the same size now.  | ||
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yeint
Estonia2329 Posts
On November 08 2011 19:59 rauk wrote: you don't have to have progamer level EMPs because your opponent is equally as bad as you are and thus doesn't have progamer level storms. I don't care about storms all that much. I care about forcefields from 5-10 full energy sentries completely preventing all movement. Spamming F in a line is not something that requires pro-level micro. Trying to EMP sentries that are spread out in the P army before he can start FFing me to death was reasonably difficult with 2 range radius, it will be a lot more so with 1.5 range radius. Frankly I don't think I'll have problems EMPing templars, they're so ridiculously slow anyway, and if he's making a crapton of them, there's less sentries and I can dodge storms and retreat to heal. | ||
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Ohforf
Singapore80 Posts
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xrayEU
Sweden571 Posts
On November 08 2011 19:58 ULuMuGuLu wrote: But another thing: What about that Portrait from Blizzcon 2011, didn't they say it will be released in the new Patch too? Anyone seen a screenshot of it now? Cause i didnt and i'm wondering why nobody talks about it on SEA Blizzard Forums. Maybe everybody forgot about Blizzards promise already? You mean this? BLIZZCON AVATAR + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v326/thefrog_/aaa-6.jpg) + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v326/thefrog_/111-7.jpg) | ||
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zuroy
9 Posts
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Heavenly
2172 Posts
On November 08 2011 20:12 yeint wrote: I don't care about storms all that much. I care about forcefields from 5-10 full energy sentries completely preventing all movement. Spamming F in a line is not something that requires pro-level micro. Trying to EMP sentries that are spread out in the P army before he can start FFing me to death was reasonably difficult with 2 range radius, it will be a lot more so with 1.5 range radius. Frankly I don't think I'll have problems EMPing templars, they're so ridiculously slow anyway, and if he's making a crapton of them, there's less sentries and I can dodge storms and retreat to heal. 10 full energy sentries is also 500/1000. Try getting some medivacs, picking them up, and moving away, since all those forcefields have just wasted 1000 gas worth of stuff from the protoss side? Or at you somehow at a point where protoss has retained 10 full energy sentries, with enough blink stalkers to pick those off without getting destroyed when they come into range, then protoss probably already won. | ||
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yeint
Estonia2329 Posts
On November 08 2011 20:07 Heavenly wrote: Uh, what? So Blizzard should balance this game around whether or not your computer has enough FPS to make it easy for you to EMP? Buy a better computer or don't play the game. My computer can't run a ton of games from after 2010, I just don't play them even if I really want to, deal with it. What was the point of you even writing this? The point of writing this, as I already stated, is that it shows how fragile the matchup has become. Landing 5 perfect EMPs should not decimate a 120 food army, and landing 10 perfect forcefields should not decimate a 120 food army either. By weakening EMP's radius for all its functions, it makes FF stronger. If the change had reduced overall shield damage, maybe EMP would be used more for combating casters than as a front-loaded aoe nuke that completely destroys protoss. Also lol at people still whining that this will break anything. Unbelievable. Some people are even arguing that it's going to break diamond level or whatever, except I doubt diamond level build orders are considered down to the last 50/50 at specific seconds or a build doesn't work. If it somehow does influence diamond/masters level, which it won't, then maybe the terrans losing to it just don't have diamond level TvP. The upgrade changes won't break anything sub-GM. | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States46484 Posts
On November 08 2011 19:15 VPFaith wrote: I think Feedbacks should not be killing the unit completely, rather, drains Health to 1 HP. What do you guys think, I mean infestors can be saved =) I suggest that because someone told me a unit in Broodwar cannot kill the unit but can only get the unit to like 1HP or something? Correct me if im wrong. Vehemently disagree with this. Feedback would then just be pointless. I'm not going to make high templar for the possibility that you *may eventually* make units with energy, just so I can not even kill the units. As it is, psi storm needs to be researched, and it takes forever. High templar would have no function until storm finished, so they would just be dead weight. Feedback is needed to kill off (or- at least- have the potential to kill off) medivac drops, infestors, ghosts, etc. High templar are already terrible compared to ghosts, and slightly worse than/ on par with infestors. Nerfing them would just make them useless. Plague from BW took the units health down to 1, but that was a completely different spell in a completely different context. | ||
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Heavenly
2172 Posts
On November 08 2011 20:17 yeint wrote: The point of writing this, as I already stated, is that it shows how fragile the matchup has become. Landing 5 perfect EMPs should not decimate a 120 food army, and landing 10 perfect forcefields should not decimate a 120 food army either. By weakening EMP's radius for all its functions, it makes FF stronger. If the change had reduced overall shield damage, maybe EMP would be used more for combating casters than as a front-loaded aoe nuke that completely destroys protoss. The upgrade changes won't break anything sub-GM. The point of what I wrote is, if your computer can't handle the game, don't play it. I've also seen tons of games where no ghost armies have still won against protoss 'deathballs' with proper positioning. My computer is also a piece of crap and I live high up in an apartment where the wifi is horrible, and I get decimated by ling/baneling all the time, that's none of Blizzard's concern. I'm not a big fan of 10 banelings destroying all of my zealots and 100 gas sentries because my forcefields go down a second late but I live with it. It's also not going to 'break' anything on any level. And I'd be more than happy if it was a reduction to overall shield damage, that'd be the same general effect on EMP (reducing the overall damage it inflicts in an AOE even if the AOE is now wider). Though most likely there would be a much bigger uproar if that was the case. | ||
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Lorch
Germany3711 Posts
Still having my fingers crossed for making EMP damage over time, instant of instant damage. | ||
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