I just wanted to take some time to apologize for what happened last night on our stream. We should have taken better care in selecting a partner in South East Asia to run our qualifiers with. We received assurances that ended up not panning out and we ended up going along with it due to the venue's short timetable for testing availability. We should have screened the quality of the event more intensely. Our intent was to help StarCraft 2 gain popularity across the globe, and we should have done our jobs better. What we thought was going to be something that progresses the scene in SEA has actually done the opposite.
I want to address a couple points that have come up.
This is a terrible situation that we had no information about until when we read his post. We feel like our part in this has been misrepresented and wanted to clarify that our agreement with the PPSL included a schedule for payments which we were up to date on - PPSL was never waiting for money from us.
2) Regarding our involvement in the event
Our involvement in the event was limited to providing money to support the event as well as providing a streaming channel. We also wanted to support the event by taking its winner to IPL 4. We spent time reviewing what they were planning, as well providing them with production assets and we felt fairly secure that they could run a decent event with what they had promised us. However, we should have been more involved with anything that had to do with the IPL name. We feel this name has come to mean quality entertainment to the community and we apologize for letting everyone down. This is a lesson we will be taking with us for future events with other regional partners. While we realize that our regional partners cannot hold something of the scale of a main IPL event, we feel like at the very least they should have significantly less issues in streaming gameplay and more of a responsiveness to the community.
3) Casters
The only casters we were aware of going into this event was Tastosis. We were under the impression they would be casting the entire event. Regardless of the quality of the other casters, this was something that should have been communicated, as I know many people tuned in specifically for Tastosis.
4) HoNslaught
We had no idea they were going to be trying to run a HoN event alongside SC2. We apologize to the HoN players who were mislead and wasted their time coming to the venue.
What is going to happen now:
We do not feel confident that the PPSL can present a watchable product. As such, we have taken away their streaming privileges from our channel. They may end up streaming on another channel but it will not be through the IPL channel. We have been promised replays from the event and we will be sorting through them and will be broadcasting the top notch games from our own studios, with our own casters. For tonight we will be streaming games from our Multiplay Qualifier #2 that happened this past weekend. Note we are not pulling our support from the PPSL event itself, so players can rest assured that the event (and prize pool) still has funding.
In short, we apologize, we never imagined it would be so terrible and we will work hard in the future to prevent a failure of this magnitude from happening again. You all expect a certain level of product and we completely wasted your time last night. This is completely unacceptable to us and we are sincerely sorry. We hope everyone still recognizes the level of quality that we at the IPL work hard everyday to present to the community and has trust that we will do our best to make sure this doesn't happen again.
Thank you.
Edit: My apologies in advance if any of this is factually incorrect, this post was made based of the information we received from the community, messages with people at the venue and from what we observed from the event last night.
It's really great that you guys are able to come out and say "look we fucked up, and here's what happens now" Very respectable. Damn shame about the PPSL
This is a very good thing to inform the community about, even if you guys didn't have any part in producing this. I hope others don't bunch you in with those who were involved at the event itself.
i think that everyone that has read #2 which you have stated before in the live report thread i think understands that IGN is just supporting these guys and is doing a good thing
I'm glad you are careful of your brand, but I'm not sure it's the right thing to pull the streaming. I think the people who watched today will want to continue to watch to find out who the winner will be, after all there are some international and fan favourite players attending.
Fair enough, thanks for clarifying.. Too bad the games aren't being shown.. Be it a terrible tournament, at the end of the day I really just want to watch my favorite players duke it out.. I can respect your situation though
Edit - I posted in a thread that Torte De Lini hasn't posted in yet.. Did hell just freeze over?
This is why IPL is a premier-class organization: It recognizes what goes wrong and it fixes it. Every mistake that is makes it learns from and improves. Cannot wait for IPL 4.
Note: PPSL can still stream their games, just not on ignproleague. If they create a new stream somewhere (and they should be able to as TheGunRun is actually on-site), then it will be up to them to promote it.
It looks like IPL is throwing the PPSL under the bus. I would have liked to see a response that helps the scene there instead of just removing the IPL name from it.
no worries mate...you are doing great....everbody ends up with stupid partners sooner or later. but that makes you stronger, and if you know now on what you have to look at, the next partner will be the right one. keep up your good work ipl ! <3
It was so bad it was funny, honestly. But holding that in a mall with people completely unaware of esports and seeing only stalling and commercials...It was held with good intentions, but you know what they say about the path to hell
awesome to see ign taking responsibility for a mistake, especially after recent news regarding other events screwing people on prize money. legit integrity, looking forward to future IPL events
Was really looking forward to Tastosis. However, good damage control by IPL, it really blows that something outside your control can become disproportionally big.
as much as it is huge for something like that to fail, IPL is awesome, you guys will live through this pretty easily imo. lots of respect for being straight up about it and apologizing, admitting the mistakes made and what you plan to do to prevent them in the future. gl hf, and gg's. keep doin what you do best
Honestly speaking, The organizer of PPSL wasn't prepared for this. I mean, his plans were not solid, and IPL having no contact with PPSL, I mean, man. I feel guilty myself because I live in this country, actually I was there on the event itself, it was horrible, first game on booth was supposed to be Naniwa vs Sen, and waited for 5-6 hours. It was epic though tbh. I think we are not ready yet for big events such as Pacific Qualifiers. Need some preparations. I think in the future it will be alright though (If there will be a next time). We got great sponsors though that's for sure. It's just the event itself. Also about YoonYJ's flight. It was cancelled man, just terrible.
Wow IGN really stepping it up and showing they care. Really, really solid PR. After IPL3 kicked total ass and now this, I might have to buy another membership/pass/whatever they call it.
I don't think an apology was even completely necessary I mean totally not directly your fault anyway. Still, awesome form with taking responsibility and keeping the community close.
So are you going to investigate what happened with YoonYJ further? I mean as it stands if they never lacked for funding to send players it would seem the event organizer clearly lied and used that money to send his own player instead.
Sickness is currently leading his group, can he qualify for IPL 4 even though he was wrongly given a qualified players spot by the admin? I mean it's hardly his fault but it's all really messed up now
If PPSL or whatever decides to keep the tournament running, will Tastosis still cast? The level of players is there, the best casters are there so production isn't really that big of a concern for me personally.
All the positive feedback from this thread just proves that people would rather see organizers admit their faults and speak up, rather than doing shit like: + Show Spoiler +
On November 07 2011 13:19 Arrietty wrote: This is ridiculous. It's more than 2 hours late now. I went in line for a VIP pass but was told they don't sell them for today anymore and they were only by reservation. I asked if I could still get a reservation for a VIP pass for tomorrow, and the person at the ticket counter said she didn't know. Huh?? +_+ Then I asked if I could get a regular pass anyway (a non-VIP one), and she said they're still not giving them away at the time. WTF, that was already at 11:40am... 1 hour and 40 minutes after the event was supposed to start, and they're still not letting people in? I don't know what the hell is happening here anymore. I was excited to see all the players at first, but now I'm just pissed.
Now I'm just chilling out in a net cafe nearby cause I came here alone and I don't know what to do anymore while waiting. =/
i think your complaints would have more impact elsewhere (not sure where). i'd be upset if i were you too.
Well, I did post my concerns on the organizer's facebook page. They deleted it.
I feel like by this time they don't even care anymore.
Where did you post your feedback that got deleted? I am sorry this happened, this should never happen and I will talk to whoever runs the page.
I posted in the PhilippinePROstarcraftleague's facebook page. It's okay, I didn't post in the IPL page, since I figured you guys weren't organizing this directly. It's just pretty frustrating to not know what's going on or how I can even get tickets (even after I asked at the ticket counter!) and seeing that even some of the organizers on location don't know what's happening.
Thanks very much for your feedback, I understand your frustrations. I will make sure that their highest levels of management receives your feedback.
Sorry for your troubles!
And it's ridiculous how IGN was the one updating the community when they weren't even on the ground: + Show Spoiler +
On November 07 2011 12:28 IGNProLeague wrote: Most recent word from the venue: They are working with their ISP, Globe Intercom, to restore full service to the location and will be back when it is restored.
^ That was actually the only update we saw for over 9 hours of disaster.
It's a really sad thing to happen to IPL and the player(s?) who got screwed. IPL is such a great organization but they were dragged by AZKwitchdoc into this horribly run tournament. Going from the best production value (IGN) to the worst production as of yet (PPSL lol) is a really horrible thing to see.
Come on now. Please don't tarnish IPL's image. They've worked so hard to be one of the best SC2 esports organization around. Thanks IGN for the response!
On Nov 7 2011 22:10 Spaceneil8 wrote: It looks like IPL is throwing the PPSL under the bus. I would have liked to see a response that helps the scene there instead of just removing the IPL name from it.
What would you like them to do? Maybe give some suggestions? They seem very receptive to community feedback if you're still upset.
On November 08 2011 07:16 ProLagger wrote: Honestly speaking, The organizer of PPSL wasn't prepared for this. I mean, his plans were not solid, and IPL having no contact with PPSL, I mean, man. I feel guilty myself because I live in this country, actually I was there on the event itself, it was horrible, first game on booth was supposed to be Naniwa vs Sen, and waited for 5-6 hours. It was epic though tbh. I think we are not ready yet for big events such as Pacific Qualifiers. Need some preparations. I think in the future it will be alright though (If there will be a next time). We got great sponsors though that's for sure. It's just the event itself. Also about YoonYJ's flight. It was cancelled man, just terrible.
It wasn't cancelled. There was no flight to begin with. Dox ran a tournament in AUS on behalf of PPSL, where the top two would join. Targa couldn't make it, so they should have brought in YoonYJ as promised. Except they didn't even buy his ticket or plan to bring him in the first place. They underhandedly gave his spot to a new member of their team, AZKSickness, who they just picked up very recently.
I'm truly impressed how quick and professional this response was made. No time for anything to be blown way out of proportion. Wish something more can be done for the 3rd place guy, but he didn't place 2nd so I don't think he is 100% deserving to go. I just feel bad for him being mislead.
well said. hopefully thegunrun can get shit together so people can watch the rest of the event. i had the event in the background for like six hours yesterday waiting to see if anything would happen, but nothing did except some low level matches. luckily i was able to do other things, so no problems by me.
Alex, any info regarding what will happen to the YoonYJ situation? I understand that the qualifier is already being held but the man also deserved the spot to compete.
Respect for IGN/IPL, taking responsibility and apologizing. IPL has only gotten better and better, and been learning from their mistakes and constantly improving. By far one of the best organizations esports could ever have.
Seriously, mad respect for you guys. We still <3 you for everything you are doing for the scene, don't ever stop being so awesome.
On November 08 2011 07:10 Spaceneil8 wrote: It looks like IPL is throwing the PPSL under the bus. I would have liked to see a response that helps the scene there instead of just removing the IPL name from it.
What do you want them to do ? They can't take a plane to the Philipines and take control of the event...
Honestly though, I think it will be better next time, considering that THAT was the FIRST big Starcraft2 event The Philippines. They probably need to make a reputation first, THEN give it another shot, yeah?
Or probably from a different organizer who knows better* Or is not a 1-man organizer*
On Nov 7 2011 22:10 Spaceneil8 wrote: It looks like IPL is throwing the PPSL under the bus. I would have liked to see a response that helps the scene there instead of just removing the IPL name from it.
They're not removing their name from it. All they said is they're going to stop streaming it from their channel. PPSL is in the wrong here. Constant lack of communication, not flying promised players over, not runnig a stream test prior to the event, despite being suggested too by IPL.
They're in no way throwing them under the bus. PPSL's plans were adequate to IPL's beliefs, so they trusted them. It was PPSL who threw IPL under the bus if anything.
What actions are you going to take to investigate the fraudulent use of IPL's sponsor money by the admin when he used the money to send his own guy instead of the proper player?
Are you going to take any action if said player wins a spot at IPL 4, considering it would be IPL that will pick up the tab to fly him there compounding the misdeed even more.
On November 08 2011 07:33 ProLagger wrote: Honestly though, I think it will be better next time, considering that THAT was the FIRST big Starcraft2 event The Philippines. They probably need to make a reputation first, THEN give it another shot, yeah?
Or probably from a different organizer who knows better* Or is not a 1-man organizer*
After the shadiness of the tournament organizer, I don't think anyone would be so easy to trust them now. I mean, IPL actually trusted them. Was given a chance by one of the most respected organization in SC2 and he blew it.
Thanks IPL, I watched through most of it, it wasn't even that terrible. The event still has some amazing players worth watching, I can't wait for the replays. 모든 것들은 용서(all is forgiven)
wow mad respect handling it in this way, and for letting us know, hopefully more events will take place outside of NA/EU/Korea and they'll streamline it out in the process
On November 08 2011 07:34 ReaperX wrote: Well done IPL, it was really a horrible job and overhyped by Team AZK. Sigh, was hoping the SEA community would have some flashes of brilliance ;s
TeSL? Dox? Or maybe someone in HK will volunteer? Asia-Expo trumps any venue so far.
You live and you learn, it's good to see you have been so quick to sort out the situation and it's a shame the PPSL have let you guys at IPL down, as we all know you are working hard to provide us with quality events!
On November 08 2011 06:59 solidONE wrote: respect for manning up and taking responsibility for your product, even if it's not your fault. people don't forget that.
Who the BEEEP is Gus Ledesma? Reading what happened with YoonYJ broke my heart. I can't believe someone like Gus Ledesma would get in a position to make any decisions about anything, I hope he gets crushed and humiliated by the community.
On November 08 2011 07:43 Pipeline wrote: Who the BEEEP is Gus Ledesma? Reading what happened with YoonYJ broke my heart. I can't believe someone like Gus Ledesma would get in a position to make any decisions about anything, I hope he gets crushed and humiliated by the community.
It's ok, IPL. Every great tournament has had a rocky start in one way or another. What matters is that you learn from your mistakes and rarely, if ever, make them again. Of course, a well-deserved reputation as one of the most friendly tournaments out there and a well-written apology helps too.
Well done - they took responsibility and I respect that.... but what actually happened. I didn't get to catch it last night, can anyone explain for me?
what is IPL doing that is so great really...? not trying to knock on them in anyway, just wondering why the community is soooo impressed by this statement. I mean in reality all they are doing is making us aware that they pretty much just slapped the IPL name on the event. Obviously when an event sucks that much, they're gonna wanna distance themselves from it. Basically just IPL doing the standard thing, nothing "professional" or anything.
Pretty disappointed it happened in the first place, but overall really happy that IGN (IPL) had the balls to admit their wrongdoing and let us know what had happened from their point of view and assure us that it won't happen again.
im sure after this disaster IGN will insist on flying out a few key production members to oversee any other "sponsored" qualifiers.
On November 08 2011 07:35 lovekr wrote: What actions are you going to take to investigate the fraudulent use of IPL's sponsor money by the admin when he used the money to send his own guy instead of the proper player?
Are you going to take any action if said player wins a spot at IPL 4, considering it would be IPL that will pick up the tab to fly him there compounding the misdeed even more.
i think this issue may solve itself as its very unlikely said player will win
On November 08 2011 07:47 Clank wrote: what is IPL doing that is so great really...? not trying to knock on them in anyway, just wondering why the community is soooo impressed by this statement. I mean in reality all they are doing is making us aware that they pretty much just slapped the IPL name on the event. Obviously when an event sucks that much, they're gonna wanna distance themselves from it. Basically just IPL doing the standard thing, nothing "professional" or anything.
Typically you just wouldn't even see an explanation. People are appreciating the fact that someone from IGN actually cared enough to release information in regards to a fiasco of an event.
A lesson learned, but one they can walk away from knowing they did their best and they made sure to inform the fans about what was happening. Very responsible, I'm finally coming around to IGN as a whole, they've began to earn my respect more and more with these great advances. Keep it up and maybe you'll make my front page permanently
This is the first I've heard about it and sounds completely respectable from your end. MLG sent out their head of operations to the CSL event that they sponsored (very low sponsorship but I believe they helped connect them with NOS and to put their name on the product to legitimize it) and I've heard great things from that.
I really liked hearing how seriously you realize now putting your name on an event and how concerned you need to be about All the event that your brand is on. I'm sure that this won't happen again and its a great lesson to learn early then one to learn in a year or more from now.
What I saw of the event didn't seem that bad, but the apology is appreciated. It's very encouraging to see this level of transparency in a larger organization, definitely a good sign of things to come!
On November 08 2011 07:47 Clank wrote: what is IPL doing that is so great really...? not trying to knock on them in anyway, just wondering why the community is soooo impressed by this statement. I mean in reality all they are doing is making us aware that they pretty much just slapped the IPL name on the event. Obviously when an event sucks that much, they're gonna wanna distance themselves from it. Basically just IPL doing the standard thing, nothing "professional" or anything.
Typically you just wouldn't even see an explanation. People are appreciating the fact that someone from IGN actually cared enough to release information in regards to a fiasco of an event.
No, that would be bad business practice. What IGN did for the first part was a standard response. But more than that, props to them for taking the blame. In that I disagree with Clank, as good practice is to look at own faults first. And that is what IGN did in the other part of their statement.
On November 08 2011 07:47 Clank wrote: what is IPL doing that is so great really...? not trying to knock on them in anyway, just wondering why the community is soooo impressed by this statement. I mean in reality all they are doing is making us aware that they pretty much just slapped the IPL name on the event. Obviously when an event sucks that much, they're gonna wanna distance themselves from it. Basically just IPL doing the standard thing, nothing "professional" or anything.
Impressed because they could have simply distanced themselves without apologizing, they could have simply emphasized that none of them were on the ground for the event, and they simply dished out money and let PPSL handle the entire thing (which PPSL promised in the first place). I, for one, feel like this apology wasn't necessary in the first place - it should be PPSL and AZKWitchdoc giving a long apology.
But hey, they gave it anyway.
And there's nothing standard about what IGN is doing. This is totally new. It's a new region (SEA). It's a new country, Philippines, as they've never had a tournament this big, ever. MKP, MC, SaSe, etc, as well as a separate AUS qualifier? MLG/NASL doesn't do this, they would get replays and streamcast them at a later date, no audience, no hosts.
It's just sad that PPSL ran such a disastrous event.
I'm not sure of the specifics of what happened (I didn't watch it), but I heard that there were some pretty big errors.
Apparently these were those errors, and I'm glad they were quickly and professionally addressed with this thread. IGN/ IPL is a great brand and well-respected by us in the community, and I think we recognize that sometimes shit happens.
Now it's just a matter of making sure these things actually don't happen again, and then surely most of us will forgive and forget
Thank you, Alex, for taking the time to write this apology.
It's sad, what happened, but at the same time it gives me a nice feeling to see such a professional and responsible sponsor involved in making SC2 bigger. IPL truly represents a gigantic leap in the right direction, and serves as an example for other organizations trying to het involved.
On November 08 2011 08:03 ProLagger wrote: PPSL was horrible, a lot of delays, even sending the players to a PC Cafe because It was just so bad. They did their matches there.
The not enough RAM thing was hilarious. Were they playing on N64's or something?
I actually don't believe that. Nvm. I don't want to believe that. That's just terrible ><.
On November 08 2011 08:01 IPA wrote: Can someone offer a brief synopsis of the shenanigans that occurred? I haven't been paying enough attention.
In any case, IPL is always respectable and it takes class to apologize. Kudos.
With as many issues as the PPSL had yesterday, I still felt like it had it's moments.
The Good: CoL.Naniwa vs GammaBearsSen <--- o.0 Exposure of the AZK clan and SEA to NA audiences
The Bad: Besides the obvious, I felt like Tastosis was really lacking in enthusiasm, as if they really didn't care about the even. Though this may be related to the issues making it difficult to cast under normal circumstances.
To IGN/IPL: I am impressed most with your involvement with #eSports, and still view your support of the PPSL with this goal in mind. As such, I respect your involvement and thank you for your continued effort to give content to the community rather than just taking money from it. +5 internets
EDIT: Your edit needs an edit ("My apologies in advance is any of this" -> "My apologies in advance if any of this")
On November 08 2011 08:10 rapidtransit247 wrote: With as many issues as the PPSL had yesterday, I still felt like it had it's moments.
The Good: CoL.Naniwa vs GammaBearsSen <--- o.0 Exposure of the AZK clan and SEA to NA audiences
The Bad: Besides the obvious, I felt like Tastosis was really lacking in enthusiasm, as if they really didn't care about the even. Though this may be related to the issues making it difficult to cast under normal circumstances.
To IGN/IPL: I am impressed most with your involvement with #eSports, and still view your support of the PPSL with this goal in mind. As such, I respect your involvement and thank you for your continued effort to give content to the community rather than just taking money from it. +5 internets
EDIT: Your edit needs an edit ("My apologies in advance is any of this" -> "My apologies in advance if any of this")
With regards to your point about tastosis, I think it's reasonable to allow them a bit of leniency here. I assume a part of casting great starcraft games involves really being into the event and the games, but if things are falling apart constantly and there's a lot of confusion, it'd be near impossible to get your head in the game.
Seeing this kind of response from an organization so quickly gives me big time hopes for the future of esports. Even though IGN/IPL has not direct responsibility for the SEA qualifiers except for providing money and they put their name on it, they are still saying "Hey, this is our name, our name is our brand. People see our name on something and expect a certain level of production value. Even though we did not run this, we are sorry and are going to fix it." Thank you so much Alex and off of IPL people.
The Philippines has never really had a single-game E-Sports event in this scale that has required streaming and such; though there have been DotA tournaments held in similar mall-based venues. Also I will have to say that connection and streaming problems with the PPSL is for THEM to explain alone, and not for IGN. It is a good move for IGN to proactively explain what their involvement truly is, and what support they have offered and can still provide.
To the PPSL:
Please do something about connectivity, FFS Level Up! Live was just last Saturday and took them 2 days to check out their Internet and LAN cabling; you need only 20 or so PCs (Live had over 100), and just test it so it doesn't have horribad lag. I honestly think you guys can be doing a better job at this; especially if one considers that many of the people there have probably already organized big DotA events.
On November 08 2011 08:22 magnaflow wrote: I assume if IPL didn't apologize nobody would have. Where's the statement or apology and future corrections from the PPSL?
They sort of did one on air. They apologized for growing pains.
love the response IGN/IPL. your name is worth so much in our community! my only quip with you is that you put too much faith in an unknown organization and didn't properly ensure that they would adhere to your admittedly very high standards. but you have realized this as well.
my REAL quip is with the PPSL. pinoys ohyeaaahh way2disappoint.
On November 08 2011 08:21 Ciryandor wrote: The Philippines has never really had a single-game E-Sports event in this scale that has required streaming and such; though there have been DotA tournaments held in similar mall-based venues. Also I will have to say that connection and streaming problems with the PPSL is for THEM to explain alone, and not for IGN. It is a good move for IGN to proactively explain what their involvement truly is, and what support they have offered and can still provide.
To the PPSL:
Please do something about connectivity, FFS Level Up! Live was just last Saturday and took them 2 days to check out their Internet and LAN cabling; you need only 20 or so PCs (Live had over 100), and just test it so it doesn't have horribad lag. I honestly think you guys can be doing a better job at this; especially if one considers that many of the people there have probably already organized big DotA events.
Yeah, like Mineski. I've seen their DotA events on stream, not too shabby. They would have done a better job with IGN's money and support, and would have been a better choice to prove that SEA has the potential for epic events.
On November 08 2011 08:24 tallyhohugo wrote: love the response IGN/IPL. your name is worth so much in our community! my only quip with you is that you put too much faith in an unknown organization and didn't properly ensure that they would adhere to your admittedly very high standards. but you have realized this as well.
my REAL quip is with the PPSL. pinoys ohyeaaahh way2disappoint.
Way to lump together an entire race based on the decisions and actions of one man.
If it is true that the AZK manager spent IPL sponsor money on sending his own teams player instead of the qualified player YoonYJ to the event. Something is seriously wrong and needs to be looked into.
Phew, i really thought IPL had alot more involvement in this, i went to sleep dreaming that all yesterday was a nightmare and IPL wouldn't back peddle on the already great standard they have been setting. Big love to you guys<3 I hope everyone over at IGN/IPL get working on your next sc2 event with great production!GOGOGOGO!
Also, there REALLY needs to be some sort of comment from Team AZK...
Well it definitely was a disaster lol.. I was looking forward to some Tastetosis casting, but nevertheless, have to give respect to IPL owning it like this. Y'all have already had plenty of amazing tournaments, and I'm sure there will be plenty more to come!
On November 08 2011 08:37 YoonYJ wrote: Yes I realised I was and this will help me to try hold Gus liable to the contract. Also, excellent post by IGN, I sincerely appreciate your apology.
i dont think ipl are the bad guys here in any way, and much respect for them making a statement on everything. keep up the good work ipl, it really is appreciated
As a player from SEA who's heavily invested in the community I can say that team AZK and the PPSL looked dodgy from the start. These guys have a pretty poor reputation due to certain members being trolls etc. They even put all these average players into the tournament whom aren't even of a competitive level for some of the smaller weekly tourneys in SEA. The only time I've seen them make a noteworthy performance was in a clan-match with Xeria Gaming where they won 4-1 with a lineup of players who didn't speak english, on guest accounts on supposedly their own server, and no1 had ever heard of any of them. It turned out they were ''Koreans living in the Phillipines and active members of AZK" but I never saw any of them again so my doubts about this team kept growing...
I also wondered how the hell any organiser in SEA would get enough money to produce the event properly, fly so many players there and schedule it accurately. There isn't that much sponsorship in SEA as its eSPORTS is just starting to pick up down here so I was always shocked to hear such grand plans. Now I find out IPL/IGN were providing monetary support and the event was still so badly organised really makes the organisers look quite silly.
Hats off to IPL/IGN for accepting responsibility for having trusted these guys to put on a good event. As the scene here is quite small I can completely understand AZK mixed reputation being completely unknown.
9 times out of 10 your trust would have been justified and it would have been a great event - there have been plenty in SEA - but unfortunately this time it really backfired. Can't hold it against you of course, but at least next time everyone will be prepared
On November 08 2011 08:37 YoonYJ wrote: Yes I realised I was and this will help me to try hold Gus liable to the contract. Also, excellent post by IGN, I sincerely appreciate your apology.
not totally sure of what happened but it's good to see IPL is plugged into everything its name is attached to and is willing to take the responsibility for any mistakes made by other parties using their good name.
On November 08 2011 09:11 CeriseCherries wrote: Wow i just read YoonYJ's message (link from section 1) and everybody should read that... I want to hear a counter statement or an apology...
Noone from AZK seems to be capable of posting since yesterday morning. No results, apologies or explanations...
All credit to IPL for reacting quickly and professionally.
The attitude shown in this statement why IPL will become B.I.G. They understand their viewers and where they're coming from. I was a fan of IPL before and that feeling has only become stronger.
Anyone can be nice during uptime, its those who are nice during downtime that holds true to their word..
On November 08 2011 09:11 CeriseCherries wrote: Wow i just read YoonYJ's message (link from section 1) and everybody should read that... I want to hear a counter statement or an apology...
Seriously, make sure and check out the message. This Gus character needs to be held accountable. Totally unprofessional and generally unacceptable behavior.
This is how PR should be handled during mistakes. Other organizations take note! Thanks for the apology IPL, your brand continues to hold strong in my eyes.
AZK and especially Gus Ledesma looks so shady to me. Shame shame shame on you for screwing over a qualified player in favour of your recently acquired star player. I hope YoonYJ gets some compensation out of this.
I was busy studying for a calc test so I didn't even know there was an issue, but I feel better knowing that ipl is admitting it and not trying to play the blame game.
Just be careful not to go into some flame war anywhere online though, sort out the facts and talk w the SEA organizers and give one final update, facts then actions and next steps.
pretty sure IGN was denying all counts as to why the streams were so bad and it wasn't their responsibility last night. nice 180 there, but better late than never.
I know this sounds classist, but I personally think major broadcasted tournaments shouldn't be held in developing countries (with a few exceptions like China of course).
It just seems like the infrastructure isn't stable or in place for these kind of things -- perfect example being their computers.
I see no reason why this couldn't have been held in say Australia or Singapore instead.
Glad to see IPL taking responsibility... but what did they expect hosting it in a 2nd possibly 3rd world country when it could have been held in Australia/NZ Without any major issues like these.
On November 08 2011 10:00 teamsolid wrote: Just how bad was the broadcast? Any VODs available? I want to watch just to see how much of a trainwreck it was
just read the LR thread.
i believe they were waiting for a game for 6 hours.
I'm from the Philippines and I tried to go the event live. Organizers are running around like their heads are cut-off. This is the first time they run a major event and it was bad enough they put IPL's name on this.
coming from Manila (Philippines) I was sad to see the crowd during the stream. Tasteless and Artosis were doing the best that they can but the audience seemed boring. When they requested a cheer you hear nothing. When the camera guys pan to the audience you see only a handful. Im sad cause I though e-Sports was big here in Manila. Guess I was wrong.
So basically without any research you guys sponsored this event because you would get a bunch of money. Then it backwashed and you "took responsibility" by saying all the issues were related to them. A really bad mistake but at least you wrote an apology.
On November 08 2011 10:11 sraelgaiznaer wrote: coming from Manila (Philippines) I was sad to see the crowd during the stream. Tasteless and Artosis were doing the best that they can but the audience seemed boring. When they requested a cheer you hear nothing. When the camera guys pan to the audience you see only a handful. Im sad cause I though e-Sports was big here in Manila. Guess I was wrong.
It is big in Manila, my relatives down there love E-sports. However, if you were there and had to wait 6 hours for the first game, you'd be annoyed too. We were streaming it -- more free time to do whatever at home.
This tournament had an AWESOME set of players -- I only wish the Philippines got a better organized tournament as there are lots of dedicated fans there and even seeing as many as I did after waiting 6 hours was something.
On November 08 2011 10:14 JediGamer wrote: So basically without any research you guys sponsored this event because you would get a bunch of money. Then it backwashed and you "took responsibility" by saying all the issues were related to them. A really bad mistake but at least you wrote an apology.
In my opinion IPL did the right thing. It probably was not "for money" but to get more exposure to the eSports community in that area. The issues were the PPSL's fault because IPL did not have any staff at the event.
On November 08 2011 10:14 JediGamer wrote: So basically without any research you guys sponsored this event because you would get a bunch of money. Then it backwashed and you "took responsibility" by saying all the issues were related to them. A really bad mistake but at least you wrote an apology.
I would like to know if PPSL approached IPL or IPL approached PPSL. Afaik, this PPSL event was supposedly just a local tournament that later became IPL4.
On November 08 2011 10:14 JediGamer wrote: So basically without any research you guys sponsored this event because you would get a bunch of money. Then it backwashed and you "took responsibility" by saying all the issues were related to them. A really bad mistake but at least you wrote an apology.
I would like to know if PPSL approached IPL or IPL approached PPSL. Afaik, this PPSL event was supposedly just a local tournament that later became IPL4.
Props to IGN/IPL for taking eSports in a mature direction (prolly should have done their due diligence first however) - I hope we don't see this kind travesty happen again.
IPL showing every other tournament how it's done. Assuming responsibility in a way that leaves no lingering doubts nor questions.
The overwhelmingly positive community response is appropriate.
That said, it's still a tournament with Tastosis casting the likes of Sen, Sase, Nani, Moon, MC, Inca, MKP, Fruitdealer and Check. I want to watch this somehow.
Massive props to IPL for their reaction. They have a strong reputation and it continues to be well deserved.
I feel really bad for Tastosis, their name is a total draw card and they shouldn't be put through that rubbish.
I feel most for YoonYJ, his response is really clear and unemotional. He is a credit to eSports.
Whilst PPSLs disorganisation was unfortunate, it's the deceptive actions of Gus (AZK.WitchDoc) Ledesma which anger me the most. It's people like that who hold eSports back.
Received and well taken! For you to publicly apologize the way you did not only says a lot about IPL, it says a lot about you. Well played! IPL is officially my new favorite tournament. Everything you've done (this included) has been top notch!
It's so nice to see someone take responsibility for a mistake and then commit to doing better next time. I was impressed by how quickly you responded to pros pointing out that they hadn't been paid their IPL prize money in the "Progamers Don't Get Paid" thread by ClouD. Props, and I will definitely buy a ticket for the next IPL
not that i'm defending gus, but i'm sure he's been really busy with the event, which could be one reason why he hasn't issued a statement about anything. I'm still praying the the thing with yonnyj, HON, and everything is just a big misunderstanding, but it's getting harder and harder to believe in it :/
oh and i just want to say that the crowd was pretty noisy. i was there and the crowd did scream during games and when tastosis were asking for cheers. it probably just wasn't picked up by the mic since i don't think there was one in the crowd.
yeah they will broadcast the games another time. Probily up against a competitors tourney so we have to choose to watch them over another major tourney. id personally rather watch shitty stream on a day when nothing else of importance is going on then replays played in the middle of a MLG or something to draw viewers away from it.
IPL copping it on the chin for AZK's complete incompetence. Kind of a shame that this was the organisation to represent SEA, but I don't blame IGN in this situation.
When I came to the event I was wondering why there was a line to go in. I saw that people were paying Php500.00 (est USD11.11) if you registered for the VIP. The VIP gets a lanyard and a goodie bag from Razr and you can enter immediately. People who didn't have the VIP email and payed will have to wait until 11am to enter. Luckily the Sen and Naniwa match started at 7pm so we didn't really miss anything.
Received and well taken! For you to publicly apologize the way you did not only says a lot about IPL, it says a lot about you. Well played! IPL is officially my new favorite tournament. Everything you've done (this included) has been top notch!
Keep up the good work!
Seconded.
You guys continue to impress me to no ends. The fact that you care so deeply about what you do is really inspiring, and it comes through not only in the quality of your product but in the quality of your interactions with the community. Thanks for the post.
I do hope that AZK wouldn't be associated with SEA Community at all in the future.
First thing's first, Team AZK had none and always has had no community involvement nor support in the SEA Region.
Secondly, they didn't do a thing to help build up the SEA Community to what it is today, and from what has happened to YYJ, it seemed like they did the exact reverse.
Though a lot of people were shocked at IPL's decision at the beginning, to pick an organisation like AZK an event this grand, I don't think anyone has ever had the slightest thought that at any point of time, was IPL at fault here. Pretty sure a lot of us still respect IPL and always will enjoy its entertainment and production that it provides.
On November 08 2011 11:03 Pobbes wrote: not that i'm defending gus, but i'm sure he's been really busy with the event, which could be one reason why he hasn't issued a statement about anything. I'm still praying the the thing with yonnyj, HON, and everything is just a big misunderstanding, but it's getting harder and harder to believe in it :/
oh and i just want to say that the crowd was pretty noisy. i was there and the crowd did scream during games and when tastosis were asking for cheers. it probably just wasn't picked up by the mic since i don't think there was one in the crowd.
If you looked at YYJ's post on sc2sea, you'd notice he even had time to get himself drunk, so that "benefit of the doubt" factor is long gone.
Any chance IPL could send Yonnyj directly to IPL4 to compete in the open brackets? There is no reason for IPL to be liable for this cluster fuck of an organization known as Team AZK but I guess it could be a good gesture.
On November 08 2011 11:03 Pobbes wrote: not that i'm defending gus, but i'm sure he's been really busy with the event, which could be one reason why he hasn't issued a statement about anything. I'm still praying the the thing with yonnyj, HON, and everything is just a big misunderstanding, but it's getting harder and harder to believe in it :/
oh and i just want to say that the crowd was pretty noisy. i was there and the crowd did scream during games and when tastosis were asking for cheers. it probably just wasn't picked up by the mic since i don't think there was one in the crowd.
If you looked at YYJ's post on sc2sea, you'd notice he even had time to get himself drunk, so that "benefit of the doubt" factor is long gone. [/QUOTE]
That and IGN's statement has rendered any excuse Gus was giving YoonYJ as to the delay as a lie. Saying he was still waiting for the money, when it had clearly already been paid.
He tried to trick Yoon for his own gain. Yoon caught him out. End of story.
On November 08 2011 11:22 RR2K1 wrote: Any chance IPL could send Yonnyj directly to IPL4 to compete in the open brackets? There is no reason for IPL to be liable for this cluster fuck of an organization known as Team AZK but I guess it could be a good gesture.
This would go a long way, not only for YoonYJ who worked his ass off to qualify for the event, but also to help restore faith in the community.
AZK is a joke team and has never had a real part in the SEA community. All they have ever done is use their crapload of money from stupid sponsors to waste on getting Korean progamers to be a part of their pathetic lineup, which consists of ZERO homegrown talent.
Now it's even more retarded how SEA's credibility is damaged because they're incompetent of running a decent event.
Yes, please get casters for some of the surely epic games to come. Just because the event is terrible doesn't mean we can't get some good value out of it yet. :D
On November 08 2011 06:59 solidONE wrote: respect for manning up and taking responsibility for your product, even if it's not your fault. people don't forget that.
So, does anyone know if they are going to stream the second half of the tournament? I already wasted 7 hours waiting for sen/nani I would like to think i get to watch the finals.
On November 08 2011 11:42 MildSeven wrote: shouldn't partner with inadequate leagues like PPSL...oh well at least Sase vs Moon and Naniwa vs Sen were sick as hell series...
We may yet see more of that since Moon and Sase are on the same side of the bracket as are Naniwa and Sen ( edit: fixed now). I appreciate the fast apology to the community but at this rate IPL is also going to need to apologize to the players who are getting dicked around.
This is all really bad, and it's great to hear that IPL is acting upon all of the stuff happening, but what happened to YYJ is just disgusting.
I'm glad that Gus is being put in the spotlight. What he did was downright wrong, and it's kind of angering that he would do such a thing. Best of luck to YYJ, hopefully IPL will give him another chance in the open bracket as someone had posted previously, I feel as if it's the least they could do for all of the shit he went through.
Also props to YYJ for keeping his cool throughout the whole thing. I know if that were me I would have used caps lock a few times in that conversation. Probably even commented on his status.
As one of those who were in the venue and one of the first people that started voicing out some concerns, thank you for this. It's pretty impressive that I've received a response from you guys at IPL within minutes of me posting my concerns, whereas until now none of us have still heard back from TeamAZK. Mad props to you guys.
As for witchdoc, people have been trying to contact him on facebook and even trying to get a hold of him during the event yesterday, but no answer. I'm still going there today, but I'm not buying a ticket like I did yesterday bcause we were totally ripped off (but that's another issue). It's going to be interesting to say the least...
Yes, and it must be made clear that Aussies are desperate for an event. Nothing happens here esports wise cause we are so far away from everyone else. IPL, please, there is massive opportunity here.
respect to IPL/IGN, man this sucks, i was there yesturday, and i seemed a bit strange... dont worry ill form a team or sc2sea can form a team to make a SEA leg of the IPL better, hopefully nirvana and the gang reads this,,, we need a better IPL SEA handler .....
Damage has been done, but IPL is trying their best to minimize its effects. They're telling us what's going on, and in a timely fashion I might add. I definitely won't hold this against them.
On November 08 2011 11:46 w1zard wrote: So, does anyone know if they are going to stream the second half of the tournament? I already wasted 7 hours waiting for sen/nani I would like to think i get to watch the finals.
Yes, and it must be made clear that Aussies are desperate for an event. Nothing happens here esports wise cause we are so far away from everyone else. IPL, please, there is massive opportunity here.
OMG yes, would be amazing to have a big event here.
The worst event I have ever witnessed. It was delayed, showed more commercials to last me a lifetime and the big name players never got the opportunity to be streamed. After reading comments from other people about this event and Dox's account of the fiasco, I have absolutely no respect for the team AZK (not hating on some of the players) and its leader. In my eyes they are dirt and deserve to be dissolved as a team.
Now Sc2 in SEA has a long way to get back some respect from the community no thanks to Gus.
On November 08 2011 12:14 DtorR wrote: The worst event I have ever witnessed. It was delayed, showed more commercials to last me a lifetime and the big name players never got the opportunity to be streamed. After reading comments from other people about this event and Dox's account of the fiasco, I have absolutely no respect for the team AZK (not hating on some of the players) and its leader. In my eyes they are dirt and deserve to be dissolved as a team.
Now Sc2 in SEA has a long way to get back some respect from the community no thanks to Gus.
completely agree with the first chunk of your statement.
The second part....Im sure SEA has plenty of people better than Gus, ready to create awesome events. I feel like its just AZK and Gus that jumped themselves into a dumpster.
As a Filipino I feel really embarrassed for the Philippine SC2 scene as well as the SEA scene in general. Team AZK is a really shady organization and I had doubts from the beginning about this. I feel that Mineski would have put up a better show like they have with their DotA tournaments.
On November 08 2011 12:39 Battousai13 wrote: Looks like we have our first sAviOr-magnitude incident in Starcraft 2. Thank you IPL, for handling the situation so well.
On November 08 2011 12:39 Battousai13 wrote: Looks like we have our first sAviOr-magnitude incident in Starcraft 2. Thank you IPL, for handling the situation so well.
Arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrh.. savior-magnitude? What did you eat?
One thing you can do is to suggest a more logical playoff bracket. Te current bracket as posted in the other thread is just ridiculous. You don't put first and second seed from one group in the same side of bracket unless there is some unspoken reason for doing that...
A1 vs. H2 (Sen vs. Rossi) B1 vs. G2 (MKP vs. InCa) B2 vs. G1 (MC vs. whale) A2 vs. H1 (Naniwa vs. SocceR)
C1 vs. F2 (Sickness vs. SaSe) D1 vs. E2 (js vs. ziek) D2 vs. E1 (FruitDealer vs. neat) C2 vs. F1 (Check vs. Moon)
Funny that IPL feels like it needs to apologize (TY for the manner though). I'll never feel entitled to the free entertainment these tourneys provide, and IPL 3 was so epic that I still have 100% confidence IPL 4 will be just as high quality.
It doesn't surprise me that something like this happened. I remember a few months back when AZK said Sleep ( or some other fairly good Korean) had joined their team, only to later find out that he didn't even know who the team was. I was surprised the tournament was held at all let alone them getting support from the SC2 community.
So, I'm glad that IPL has removed their support. I wonder if any of the prize money promised will be payed out.
On November 08 2011 07:36 Slardar wrote: Thanks IPL, I watched through most of it, it wasn't even that terrible. The event still has some amazing players worth watching, I can't wait for the replays. 모든 것들은 용서(all is forgiven)
I watched the event live and I agree with you. Despite the huge technical issues, I found the event awesome. Its the FIRST major league international event for Starcraft 2 here in the country, so we have no point of comparison for live events.
For me its awesome, I still appreciate AZK for doing this and I thank IPL for bringing this to our country.
With all the flaming and bad mouthing done by some people, it really made the (live) event look bad. From a live audience point of view, the epic match of Sen and Naniwa made the wait worthwhile for us.
I can't say anything for those watching on stream though. I'm just sharing with you that for those in the live event, and all that for us locals, we still thankful and appreciative that the event happened.
I want to thank the pro players that have put on the effort for the entertaining matches. For me thats whats important, whoever organizes the event and makes it happen for us, as huge SC2 fan, I am thankful.
Thank you IPL.
for AZK, thanks for the effort, finish the tourney, and i hope you learn from this experience.
Thank you.
EDIT:
Just to end on a high note, its 12 Noon Philippine time as I write this. I will just eat lunch and I will be rushing to Glorietta mall and watch the event LIVE!!! SEN FIGHTING!!!!!!!!!!!:-D
AZK really needs to be blacklisted by the community. I feel really bad for the Koreans - are they aware of the level of scamminess they've gotten embroiled in?
Normally I don't post in these kinds of threads but I'd like to make a comment on an issue that hasn't been raised.
AZKziek should not have been included in the tournament. He was not apart of the Australian IPL 4 qualifiers and he did not participate in the tournament bracket that would have earned him the right to compete in the Phillipines. More so, 'Ziek' (or as we in the SEA scene know him 'Zanooku') is SEA's version of Combat-EX. He is bad mannered and makes derogatory and racist statements. If you'd like a source, then I'd ask you to take the time to look up the incident at WCG Brisbane.
To me, it is offensive to me as a member of the SEA community that he was chosen to represent TEAM AZK as a host, and Australia as a participant in this league. He did not earn his position in that tournament, and the absence of YoonYJ suggests that AZK perhaps used the money to send over this poor-mannered representative.
To Team AZK's management, make sure you send over the people who earned their spots in the tournament before you send over your own replacement.
IPL/IGN: You were not at fault at all, I'm pretty sure the community could tell by the quality of the event who was to blame. Thank-you for stepping up and taking some responsibility, but the fact is that you can't be everywhere at once and we as a community understand and support you. IPL is my favorite tournament to watch in the west, and I hope you continue to provide quality entertainment for the community.
On November 08 2011 13:16 Oreo7 wrote: AZK really needs to be blacklisted by the community. I feel really bad for the Koreans - are they aware of the level of scamminess they've gotten embroiled in?
Probably not very aware. They couldn't even interview AZKsickness during the event because no English-speaking person there knew Korean. I feel really bad for all those players that were strung along.
This sort of thing is very good for esports. Many of you may not remember the shenanigans and fall outs of the past.. and the very fact that we are now starting over in esports... but having this happen and then the response from IPL/IGN being as solid as it is, is an example of how things must progress for esports to be what we all want it to be. It will take more years of these bumps and bruises to work themselves out, but if we (fans, players, orgs) learn from these things this time we will all be better off.
It's great to see you guys presenting your side of the story in a situation like this. Last week's State of the Game actually addressed this kind of topic and to see the IPL respond well is very promising.
On November 08 2011 13:22 Solis_au wrote: AZKziek should not have been included in the tournament. He was not apart of the Australian IPL 4 qualifiers and he did not participate in the tournament bracket that would have earned him the right to compete in the Phillipines. More so, 'Ziek' (or as we in the SEA scene know him 'Zanooku') is SEA's version of Combat-EX. He is bad mannered and makes derogatory and racist statements. If you'd like a source, then I'd ask you to take the time to look up the incident at WCG Brisbane.
Are you serious?? Zanooku was there?? Wow... There is no way he ever deserved to be involved in any tournament...
I think IPL did the right thing. Instead of doing what a crappy company would do (which is broadcast the PPSL anyways, even though the quality would be inferior) they are going to be kind and do their best to explain their position to the community (which is what an awesome company does).
On November 08 2011 13:22 Solis_au wrote: AZKziek should not have been included in the tournament. He was not apart of the Australian IPL 4 qualifiers and he did not participate in the tournament bracket that would have earned him the right to compete in the Phillipines. More so, 'Ziek' (or as we in the SEA scene know him 'Zanooku') is SEA's version of Combat-EX. He is bad mannered and makes derogatory and racist statements. If you'd like a source, then I'd ask you to take the time to look up the incident at WCG Brisbane.
Are you serious?? Zanooku was there?? Wow... There is no way he ever deserved to be involved in any tournament...
He's live on the stream right now, playing against Moon.
I hope to see less tournaments in developing countries that have barely reached the computer and internet age. We've done Spain, Finland and Philippines now and it didn't work. Lesson learned. Move on.
On November 08 2011 12:35 thepantysoaker wrote: does this mean no more shake your ass plateau RIGHT ABOUT NOW?!
You know what's ruining esports? The kind of people watching Esports. It was an eye-opener to read the stream chat when Cheekyduck/LiviBee were commentating. Firstly - I don't know about the girls you meet, but the girls I meet don't tend to play games. Those who do don't ever play the game at the same level comparable to men. I.e. Tossgirl v Jaedong. I listened to their cast quite carefully and apart from a few analytical blunders (which Wolf from GSL makes all the day long), they did quite well. "Right about now" is very unfortunate and I am sure these two female casters will sit in front of a mirror and iron that phrase out if they want to succeed in the future.
This is such a damned waste. One of the biggest SC2 events in SEA and it turned out like that. Had such high hopes for this - even skipped classes to watch the stream. ):
On November 08 2011 14:05 Coruscant wrote: This is such a damned waste. One of the biggest SC2 events in SEA and it turned out like that. Had such high hopes for this - even skipped classes to watch the stream. ):
If a proper series of SEA qualifiers were actually held, I can guarantee you there would be substantially less AZK members flooding the brackets.
I agree with JesusOurSaviour, everytime a new type of caster comes along they get bashed too much. We need different all different kinds of people in our community give them some time so get used to them and for them to improve. Its not like theres a huge pool of great talented casters and its your job to weed them out. Id rather see every person whos there with good intentions be welcomed even if they may not be absolutely flawless in what they do. I saw only very little of the girl casters but they made the girly spin on it work at least kinda xD Also about this Gus Ledesma incident: does that really need to be fought out publicly? If you got treated bad draw your conclusions but dont involve a whole community necessarily.
That fuckin gus guy makes me so mad. what a fuckin prick.
This is NOT the kinda thing that should be happening in this flourishing esport. I hope team AZK gets their senses right and gets rid of that loser or they have -1 fan... I'm sure there are plenty more to come.
On November 08 2011 13:22 Solis_au wrote: AZKziek should not have been included in the tournament. He was not apart of the Australian IPL 4 qualifiers and he did not participate in the tournament bracket that would have earned him the right to compete in the Phillipines. More so, 'Ziek' (or as we in the SEA scene know him 'Zanooku') is SEA's version of Combat-EX. He is bad mannered and makes derogatory and racist statements. If you'd like a source, then I'd ask you to take the time to look up the incident at WCG Brisbane.
Are you serious?? Zanooku was there?? Wow... There is no way he ever deserved to be involved in any tournament...
He's live on the stream right now, playing against Moon.
I thought he played Protoss?
Only thing i miss about not hanging in the 2bh channel is Zanooku's bm/qq ^_^
On November 08 2011 14:05 Coruscant wrote: This is such a damned waste. One of the biggest SC2 events in SEA and it turned out like that. Had such high hopes for this - even skipped classes to watch the stream. ):
If a proper series of SEA qualifiers were actually held, I can guarantee you there would be substantially less AZK members flooding the brackets.
Dox, out of curiosity, if IPL had wanted you to organise the SEA qualifier instead of AZK, would you have been willing to try your hand at an event of that size? because from what i saw you put on a much better event to decide the two aus reps, even if yoon did get dicked over.
On November 08 2011 13:22 Solis_au wrote: Normally I don't post in these kinds of threads but I'd like to make a comment on an issue that hasn't been raised.
AZKziek should not have been included in the tournament. He was not apart of the Australian IPL 4 qualifiers and he did not participate in the tournament bracket that would have earned him the right to compete in the Phillipines. More so, 'Ziek' (or as we in the SEA scene know him 'Zanooku') is SEA's version of Combat-EX. He is bad mannered and makes derogatory and racist statements. If you'd like a source, then I'd ask you to take the time to look up the incident at WCG Brisbane.
To me, it is offensive to me as a member of the SEA community that he was chosen to represent TEAM AZK as a host, and Australia as a participant in this league. He did not earn his position in that tournament, and the absence of YoonYJ suggests that AZK perhaps used the money to send over this poor-mannered representative.
To Team AZK's management, make sure you send over the people who earned their spots in the tournament before you send over your own replacement.
IPL/IGN: You were not at fault at all, I'm pretty sure the community could tell by the quality of the event who was to blame. Thank-you for stepping up and taking some responsibility, but the fact is that you can't be everywhere at once and we as a community understand and support you. IPL is my favorite tournament to watch in the west, and I hope you continue to provide quality entertainment for the community.
wow this guy is .......... fucking pathetic , i didn't expect that Ziek was Zanooku. He such a bad manner guy who harassment by trash talk to most of the player who play terran i think.
Thanks for not only letting the community know the details of this event, but for aiming for such high levels of production from the very start. This is certainly a setback, but at least you guys have stepped up and addressed it. I've been a fan of IPL and I will continue to be a fan of IPL in the future. I can't wait until IPL 4!
On November 08 2011 13:22 Solis_au wrote: AZKziek should not have been included in the tournament. He was not apart of the Australian IPL 4 qualifiers and he did not participate in the tournament bracket that would have earned him the right to compete in the Phillipines. More so, 'Ziek' (or as we in the SEA scene know him 'Zanooku') is SEA's version of Combat-EX. He is bad mannered and makes derogatory and racist statements. If you'd like a source, then I'd ask you to take the time to look up the incident at WCG Brisbane.
Are you serious?? Zanooku was there?? Wow... There is no way he ever deserved to be involved in any tournament...
He's live on the stream right now, playing against Moon.
I thought he played Protoss?
He certainly used to. I came up against him in random 2v2s once. I played absolutely terrible and we ended up losing, but he really didn't play much better, and even on a good day I was hardly a great player. Based on his ranking (#146 GM SEA) it looks like he's improved somewhat, but even still he doesn't deserve to be there if for no other reason that the racism he continually showed on the SEA Battle.Net forums.
i hope IPL does another SEA sc2 scene probably in another place...I'm a filipino but i'm not proud on what happened...it's sad that PPSL already has an awful reputation when the sc2 is still growing here in SEA...
I'm just glad that there appear to be enough good people in the tournament that the chances of any AZK member making it out and actually getting to go to IPL4 are near zero.
On November 08 2011 14:05 Coruscant wrote: This is such a damned waste. One of the biggest SC2 events in SEA and it turned out like that. Had such high hopes for this - even skipped classes to watch the stream. ):
If a proper series of SEA qualifiers were actually held, I can guarantee you there would be substantially less AZK members flooding the brackets.
Dox, out of curiosity, if IPL had wanted you to organise the SEA qualifier instead of AZK, would you have been willing to try your hand at an event of that size? because from what i saw you put on a much better event to decide the two aus reps, even if yoon did get dicked over.
I would have loved to.
I've just updated my original blog post with some information about the brackets. There may be a better explanation than the one that I've provided, but we'll have to wait for a statement from AZK. At this stage, it looks like they may have been rigged.
Once again, I could be wrong. Just saying how it looks.
I read this post and the replies in here, and i am disappointed. I'm a Filipino player, and I am a silent reader/player. I don't really post/comment unless i need to (in our philippine forums), and to be honest i made this account just now for this specific topic (this is my first account here :p).
Anyway the event was a mess, I was there. It's understandable to have technical difficulties, but having it not solved for more than an hour is not tolerable. As I watched what i thought would be the greatest part of my gaming life, it slowly sinked in to me that the people handling the event were incapable of executing the event itself. Rather than anger, I felt really sad because i know this will reflect on the status of Philippine Esports. I just can't help but think of the future of this industry.
I do hope you guys don't generalize the things that has happened. Team AZK does not represent the whole of Philippine Esports. And I pray that the Philippines won't be shunned by sponsors and fellow gamers.
And last but certainly not the least, I would like to thank IPL for giving Philippine Esports a chance to show itself, but I guess we are not ready yet. Sorry.
On November 08 2011 08:21 Ciryandor wrote: The Philippines has never really had a single-game E-Sports event in this scale that has required streaming and such; though there have been DotA tournaments held in similar mall-based venues. Also I will have to say that connection and streaming problems with the PPSL is for THEM to explain alone, and not for IGN. It is a good move for IGN to proactively explain what their involvement truly is, and what support they have offered and can still provide.
To the PPSL:
Please do something about connectivity, FFS Level Up! Live was just last Saturday and took them 2 days to check out their Internet and LAN cabling; you need only 20 or so PCs (Live had over 100), and just test it so it doesn't have horribad lag. I honestly think you guys can be doing a better job at this; especially if one considers that many of the people there have probably already organized big DotA events.
Yeah, like Mineski. I've seen their DotA events on stream, not too shabby. They would have done a better job with IGN's money and support, and would have been a better choice to prove that SEA has the potential for epic events.
Yeah, I'd be much more confident in SC2 in the Philippines had it been done by Mski. Those guys know how to do things well, and this is one of the reasons they're in the top tier of SEA DotA; and will probably be the same with SC2.
On November 08 2011 09:01 PiGStarcraft wrote: As a player from SEA who's heavily invested in the community I can say that team AZK and the PPSL looked dodgy from the start. These guys have a pretty poor reputation due to certain members being trolls etc. They even put all these average players into the tournament whom aren't even of a competitive level for some of the smaller weekly tourneys in SEA. The only time I've seen them make a noteworthy performance was in a clan-match with Xeria Gaming where they won 4-1 with a lineup of players who didn't speak english, on guest accounts on supposedly their own server, and no1 had ever heard of any of them. It turned out they were ''Koreans living in the Phillipines and active members of AZK" but I never saw any of them again so my doubts about this team kept growing...
I also wondered how the hell any organiser in SEA would get enough money to produce the event properly, fly so many players there and schedule it accurately. There isn't that much sponsorship in SEA as its eSPORTS is just starting to pick up down here so I was always shocked to hear such grand plans. Now I find out IPL/IGN were providing monetary support and the event was still so badly organised really makes the organisers look quite silly.
Hats off to IPL/IGN for accepting responsibility for having trusted these guys to put on a good event. As the scene here is quite small I can completely understand AZK mixed reputation being completely unknown.
You know, I'll have to say that some vetting ought to have been done by IPL as well, unless they were completely hoodwinked by their communication to them. I'm saying that IPL could have also been more pro-active in checking people out, especially in places like this where e-Sports activities are not very well established; as linkages to active grassroots groups are your best way of cultivating players.
On November 08 2011 09:56 hmunkey wrote: I know this sounds classist, but I personally think major broadcasted tournaments shouldn't be held in developing countries (with a few exceptions like China of course).
It just seems like the infrastructure isn't stable or in place for these kind of things -- perfect example being their computers.
I see no reason why this couldn't have been held in say Australia or Singapore instead.
You know, the Philippines has had its fair share of online tournaments (e.g. the Ragnarok World Championships being inspired by the Philippines having its own tournament if my recollection serves me right), and the infrastructure has been present for quite a while in major venues. I'll have to say that it's the organizers' fault on this end in this case.
On November 08 2011 11:03 Pobbes wrote: not that i'm defending gus, but i'm sure he's been really busy with the event, which could be one reason why he hasn't issued a statement about anything. I'm still praying the the thing with yonnyj, HON, and everything is just a big misunderstanding, but it's getting harder and harder to believe in it :/
oh and i just want to say that the crowd was pretty noisy. i was there and the crowd did scream during games and when tastosis were asking for cheers. it probably just wasn't picked up by the mic since i don't think there was one in the crowd.
Yo mang, you should have been playing in this thing, WCG country placing should have been enough reason for the top 3 to be there.
Also, to the people saying Australia deserves it more; why don't you guys have the initiative to actually make a proper event that would eclipse this? Give IPL a reason to trust you MORE with their qualifiers. It would be easy after seeing how screwed up this was for most people; and I'm sure you have enough people there to make it work.
This needed a lot more clarity. I had no idea. I thought this was a qualifier offical not a seperate branch. THERE needs to be more communication on all three sides. IF IPL is running a qualifier for their tournament it should be run by them, no one else, therefore they can FULLY accept responsibility. IN this case, they had their money in it, but suddenly got hit in the back of the head because the tournament had its pants pulled down and didn't know how to dress properly.
Tournament quality and standard have gone up in the past few months.
it is unacceptable for anyone to accept this tournament as 'good'. It is unacceptable to even call this 'a tournament' because it isn't. We have online play and than we have live tournies. Ipl did good in differentiating but they did bad on understanding their position in 'tournament' expectations. When i first heard about it, i thought it would be bad ass with flair. Turns out hte stream quality was crappy when it was on. I got two random people casting instead of tasetosis (do not comment on how they were girls, that is sexism).
HOnestly, besides k-9, i think Tasetosis is the best casting dou out there. And to expect 'quality' and not get it is BAD! Ranting yes, but making a point, i hope you see it. Tournaments need to be held to a certain expectations or they will die under the glory of other and better tournaments.
On November 08 2011 14:48 Superfool wrote: And last but certainly not the least, I would like to thank IPL for giving Philippine Esports a chance to show itself, but I guess we are not ready yet. Sorry.
Dude, the MMO players have already shown they're very much ready with playing in major tournaments, and I'd like to point to things like eGames' Domination and Level Up! Live to show that it works. It's just the need for upstanding and communicative community-based organizers who can deal with putting together an event of this magnitude without full corporate backing for games like SC2 and DotA/HoN that's missing. The people are there, I've seen enough of them, they just need to take the plunge and commit to making it work; while risking the spotlight.
On November 08 2011 15:01 Ciryandor wrote: It would be easy after seeing how screwed up this was for most people; and I'm sure you have enough people there to make it work.
I seriously doubt that it's going to make it easier. Any suggestion of running an event in SEA with a big sponsor like IGN is going to require a lot more proof that you're capable of running such an event, and without any such prior event ever happening you're just not going to be able to provide that proof. I really wish that wasn't the case as I'd love to see something like MLG (albeit a lot smaller) making tours around Australia (as I'd certainly attend if it was in Melb), but I think it's going to take a long time for sponsors to be confident enough to do it again.
The state of Esports right now depends a lot on the quality of individuals. This will get less over time. It's just sort of the way it goes in a new industry where initiative is rewarded but may just as well go wrong. One guy fucking up does not mean Philippines isn't ready, and I hope everyone understands this.
I do think that a company like IPL (and TeamLiquid as well) should be very wary of who we associate ourselves with. It can often be tempting to listen to golden promises, but oftentimes it's better to decline something potentially good than to get into something with an unknown factor being in charge.
On November 08 2011 15:11 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: The state of Esports right now depends a lot on the quality of individuals. This will get less over time. It's just sort of the way it goes in a new industry where initiative is rewarded but may just as well go wrong. One guy fucking up does not mean Philippines isn't ready, and I hope everyone understands this.
I do think that a company like IPL (and TeamLiquid as well) should be very wary of who we associate ourselves with. It can often be tempting to listen to golden promises, but oftentimes it's better to decline something potentially good than to get into something with an unknown factor being in charge.
Not to take any blame away from AZK but IPL should have taken greater care in selecting partners - especially the first huge event in SEA, which is bound to generate a lot of attention. There is already an established esports organization in Philippines - MINESKI!! - that has experience hosting international organizations. Wonder why Mski wasn't the first choice.
On November 08 2011 15:01 Ciryandor wrote: It would be easy after seeing how screwed up this was for most people; and I'm sure you have enough people there to make it work.
I seriously doubt that it's going to make it easier. Any suggestion of running an event in SEA with a big sponsor like IGN is going to require a lot more proof that you're capable of running such an event, and without any such prior event ever happening you're just not going to be able to provide that proof. I really wish that wasn't the case as I'd love to see something like MLG (albeit a lot smaller) making tours around Australia (as I'd certainly attend if it was in Melb), but I think it's going to take a long time for sponsors to be confident enough to do it again.
Community tournaments and transparency will go a LONG way towards showing you can be trusted. You can just go small, no need to ask for outrageous demands like an IPL4 slot and big prizes. If you're saying you're going to have a 16 man invitational based off community events all over Australia (just as an example) and that this would be a one day event, it would be worth doing.
It's all about the people KNOWING you can be accounted for at the end of the day. They WILL trust you if you show you have a track record you don't want to tarnish if you screw it up; or if you do, that you're willing and able to do damage control on it and prevent it from screwing up everything.
On November 08 2011 15:11 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: The state of Esports right now depends a lot on the quality of individuals. This will get less over time. It's just sort of the way it goes in a new industry where initiative is rewarded but may just as well go wrong. One guy fucking up does not mean Philippines isn't ready, and I hope everyone understands this.
I do think that a company like IPL (and TeamLiquid as well) should be very wary of who we associate ourselves with. It can often be tempting to listen to golden promises, but oftentimes it's better to decline something potentially good than to get into something with an unknown factor being in charge.
Yes, thank you for making this crystal clear. IPL should learn from this. I hope Filipinos who are very much incensed over what has happened will step up and redeem themselves with better work, so they can get a chance to show that this is a one-time screw up.
On November 08 2011 15:01 Ciryandor wrote: It would be easy after seeing how screwed up this was for most people; and I'm sure you have enough people there to make it work.
I seriously doubt that it's going to make it easier. Any suggestion of running an event in SEA with a big sponsor like IGN is going to require a lot more proof that you're capable of running such an event, and without any such prior event ever happening you're just not going to be able to provide that proof. I really wish that wasn't the case as I'd love to see something like MLG (albeit a lot smaller) making tours around Australia (as I'd certainly attend if it was in Melb), but I think it's going to take a long time for sponsors to be confident enough to do it again.
Community tournaments and transparency will go a LONG way towards showing you can be trusted. You can just go small, no need to ask for outrageous demands like an IPL4 slot and big prizes. If you're saying you're going to have a 16 man invitational based off community events all over Australia (just as an example) and that this would be a one day event, it would be worth doing.
It's all about the people KNOWING you can be accounted for at the end of the day. They WILL trust you if you show you have a track record you don't want to tarnish if you screw it up; or if you do, that you're willing and able to do damage control on it and prevent it from screwing up everything.
There are plenty of online tournaments held for SEA, but to have a live event requires a lot of money behind it in order to host the venue, insurance, equipment, etc. etc. Organising an event like that is completely different to just running an online tournament. Even a LAN cafe tournament or something isn't anywhere near the level of organisation required for a live event. It's going to be difficult to show them you're capable of running a live event without ever having the chance to run a live event beforehand.
On November 08 2011 15:01 Ciryandor wrote: It would be easy after seeing how screwed up this was for most people; and I'm sure you have enough people there to make it work.
I really wish that wasn't the case as I'd love to see something like MLG (albeit a lot smaller) making tours around Australia (as I'd certainly attend if it was in Melb)
Much respect to IGN. I appreciate the direct communication and will make sure to continue to support the IPL and related events in spite of this mishap.
On November 08 2011 15:01 Ciryandor wrote: It would be easy after seeing how screwed up this was for most people; and I'm sure you have enough people there to make it work.
I really wish that wasn't the case as I'd love to see something like MLG (albeit a lot smaller) making tours around Australia (as I'd certainly attend if it was in Melb)
On November 08 2011 14:48 Superfool wrote: And last but certainly not the least, I would like to thank IPL for giving Philippine Esports a chance to show itself, but I guess we are not ready yet. Sorry.
Dude, the MMO players have already shown they're very much ready with playing in major tournaments, and I'd like to point to things like eGames' Domination and Level Up! Live to show that it works. It's just the need for upstanding and communicative community-based organizers who can deal with putting together an event of this magnitude without full corporate backing for games like SC2 and DotA/HoN that's missing. The people are there, I've seen enough of them, they just need to take the plunge and commit to making it work; while risking the spotlight.
Oh sorry i wasn't clear at that, what i meant was the organizing of the event, not the players But yeah I can see that the previous MMO and Dota tournaments were a success.
On November 08 2011 14:48 Superfool wrote: I read this post and the replies in here, and i am disappointed. I'm a Filipino player, and I am a silent reader/player. I don't really post/comment unless i need to (in our philippine forums), and to be honest i made this account just now for this specific topic (this is my first account here :p).
Anyway the event was a mess, I was there. It's understandable to have technical difficulties, but having it not solved for more than an hour is not tolerable. As I watched what i thought would be the greatest part of my gaming life, it slowly sinked in to me that the people handling the event were incapable of executing the event itself. Rather than anger, I felt really sad because i know this will reflect on the status of Philippine Esports. I just can't help but think of the future of this industry.
I do hope you guys don't generalize the things that has happened. Team AZK does not represent the whole of Philippine Esports. And I pray that the Philippines won't be shunned by sponsors and fellow gamers.
And last but certainly not the least, I would like to thank IPL for giving Philippine Esports a chance to show itself, but I guess we are not ready yet. Sorry.
Don't worry, as someone from the U.S. this has not reflected how I feel about Philippine Esports as a whole. The tournament was poorly managed and therefore the overall quality suffered. Obviously U.S. tournaments had serious issues as well in the early stages (and even in recent tournaments) and I'd say the NA scene is still doing pretty well. Don't worry, as long as Esports remains popular in SEA I'm sure an organization will take the opportunity to produce a successful tournament. Keep in mind MLG in its early days was pretty disappointing in terms of viewer quality. It's growing pains, and although it's upsetting, it's something to be expected in the quickly growing community. I look forward in seeing what SEA has to offer in terms of content
I'm not saying they shouldn't or that they are making a mistake, but be aware that this isn't so much taking responsibility as it is washing your hands of a (former) partner. It is common in the business world to stick by a failing partner a bit longer than seems reasonable to show potential partners that they have a certain amount of loyalty.
This reminds me of the WCG US mess of this year. You might want to consider maybe asking WCG centrally to disown WCG US's current management (?) Just a thought.
On November 08 2011 14:16 gulshngill wrote: Thanks for the clarification IPL! If you have an SC2 event in SEA again, I suggest doing it in Singapore at least.
On November 08 2011 15:46 RexCogitans wrote: I'm not saying they shouldn't or that they are making a mistake, but be aware that this isn't so much taking responsibility as it is washing your hands of a (former) partner. It is common in the business world to stick by a failing partner a bit longer than seems reasonable to show potential partners that they have a certain amount of loyalty.
This reminds me of the WCG US mess of this year. You might want to consider maybe asking WCG centrally to disown WCG US's current management (?) Just a thought.
That might just happen if their fuck up was of this magnitude. Embezzling and rigging of qualifiers sounds pretty low to me already.
Its so funny that AKZ somehow ended up running this tournament. Maybe my experiences with AKZ players are unusual but I only know them as people that play 4v4s with 3people in a team (so it counts on their RT rank) and cheese 100% of the time. Usually 1 canon rush + 1DT rush then ether 7pool or 6rax.
On November 08 2011 15:57 NoobStyles wrote: Its so funny that AKZ somehow ended up running this tournament. Maybe my experiences with AKZ players are unusual but I only know them as people that play 4v4s with 3people in a team (so it counts on their RT rank) and cheese 100% of the time. Usually 1 canon rush + 1DT rush then ether 7pool or 6rax.
You should play 1v1's with them..
All you get is abused if you win, and get called a scrub if you lose. You also get invited to there channel all the time :\
On November 08 2011 15:01 Ciryandor wrote: It would be easy after seeing how screwed up this was for most people; and I'm sure you have enough people there to make it work.
I really wish that wasn't the case as I'd love to see something like MLG (albeit a lot smaller) making tours around Australia (as I'd certainly attend if it was in Melb)
On November 08 2011 15:57 NoobStyles wrote: Its so funny that AKZ somehow ended up running this tournament. Maybe my experiences with AKZ players are unusual but I only know them as people that play 4v4s with 3people in a team (so it counts on their RT rank) and cheese 100% of the time. Usually 1 canon rush + 1DT rush then ether 7pool or 6rax.
You should play 1v1's with them..
All you get is abused if you win, and get called a scrub if you lose. You also get invited to there channel all the time :\
To be fair, good mannered AZK members do exist, but they seem to be a minority.
I've played AZKziek on ladder before, his comments in game and his BM is just uncalled for. I never knew he was the famous ZANOOKU though :D
On November 08 2011 16:15 HellionDrop wrote: who are the two Australian girl casters???? can you add them to your casting team???
They're LiviBee and CheekyDuck. And they're only casting because they're on Team AZK and the-master-of-the-known-universe Gus decided it was appropriate that they cast some games. Even though only Tastosis were supposed to be casting.
whoever the girl on the right is, shes alright, girl on the left talks too much and doesnt seem to know much lol. i wonder if other female sc players can stand it?
IPL - you need people like Dox for your Future SEA events.. he is the man when it comes to SC2 events...
Next time, don't pick a second rate team that will fill the brackets with their own players.. but actually invite the players that qualify.
BUT not IPL's fault.. every knows how unprofessional and incompetent team AZK and WitchDoc are... so if you want eSports to move forward.. don't do business with these scrubs.
You guys just showed again to the community why you are one of the premier leagues for SC2. Responsible for your actions, no excuses, and you have made some clear goals on how to improve from your mistakes. You guys are awesome. Keep up the awesome work and keep E-sports going strong.
On November 08 2011 10:11 sraelgaiznaer wrote: coming from Manila (Philippines) I was sad to see the crowd during the stream. Tasteless and Artosis were doing the best that they can but the audience seemed boring. When they requested a cheer you hear nothing. When the camera guys pan to the audience you see only a handful. Im sad cause I though e-Sports was big here in Manila. Guess I was wrong.
Actually the crowd was pretty noisy during stage matches and was responsive to Tastosis, its just that there is no mic towards the crowd in the venue. I was there day 1 and here now day2
I feel more sorry for IGN than angry. I thought it was such a shame that they had their name plastered over such a degrading event that was associated with such detrimentive people that are involved with Esports. Although I think you guys should have screened the event more and looked into it more, not that I would blame you considering the shitty organizer who never replies.
I hope everything can be dealt with and I hope you can find a better organization to work with to globalize the SEA area. It's great that you guys took the initiave to apologize and that in itself makes you guys respectable and professional.
On November 08 2011 15:01 Ciryandor wrote: It would be easy after seeing how screwed up this was for most people; and I'm sure you have enough people there to make it work.
I really wish that wasn't the case as I'd love to see something like MLG (albeit a lot smaller) making tours around Australia (as I'd certainly attend if it was in Melb)
On November 08 2011 17:07 MildSeven wrote: not sure if anyone is watching the duo girls casting now, they are horrible though.
Yeah, I was watching it, and I can cope with their casting (I think Wolf irritates me more than they do), but the jerkiness of the stream was frustrating, and then when it went black I just decided I'd rather watch a player laddering until GSL is on.
Also, to the people saying Australia deserves it more; why don't you guys have the initiative to actually make a proper event that would eclipse this? Give IPL a reason to trust you MORE with their qualifiers. It would be easy after seeing how screwed up this was for most people; and I'm sure you have enough people there to make it work.
We already have, the Australian Qualifiers for this event were run better and more professionally then the pacific event. And that was done with almost no funding. (Granted, it was online) but that's just one example
The Australian WCG finals were recently held on the gold coast at EB Games Expo. They ran on time and had Decent internet connections. I went to this event live, and so i am unable to comment on stream production quality, if it was even streamed?
SC2 tourneys in all countries (except Korea) still have to make / live through small and big mistakes in order to get better. IPL taking responsibility is great, they just have to learn from this, which I am confident they do.
In short I think we fans shouldn't be to harsh about it at this stage, while making clear, that we expect better quality. Something which obviously IPL and all the other big tournaments out there expect of themselves as well.
On November 08 2011 17:28 Junichi wrote: SC2 tourneys in all countries (except Korea) still have to make / live through small and big mistakes in order to get better. IPL taking responsibility is great, they just have to learn from this, which I am confident they do.
In short I think we fans shouldn't be to harsh about it at this stage, while making clear, that we expect better quality. Something which obviously IPL and all the other big tournaments out there expect of themselves as well.
Yeah take a look at MLG, its probably the best thing ever happend to sc2 after what happend in Dallas
I love when a company will just admin they messed something up and are going to fix it. We are all human and people understand that everyone makes mistakes.
You have actually just gained a viewer in me through this whole incident. Good work!
On November 08 2011 17:36 Khaymus wrote: I love when a company will just admin they messed something up and are going to fix it. We are all human and people understand that everyone makes mistakes.
You have actually just gained a viewer in me through this whole incident. Good work!
basically that's true for me too. I don't really know anything about the thournament that has been/shoud have been yesterday, but the clear apology from IPL in such a fast time is nice to see.
IPL 3 has been great and I will definately try to catch future IPL's
Went back to the event on the 2nd day. The event ran much much smoother. There was fewer people because it wasn't a holiday anymore. The games were played faster. It was more organized. Even though the 1st day was peice of sh*t and team AZK were a bunch of a holes day 2 was pretty pretty good!
On November 08 2011 17:49 cowww wrote: Went back to the event on the 2nd day. The event ran much much smoother. There was fewer people because it wasn't a holiday anymore. The games were played faster. It was more organized. Even though the 1st day was peice of sh*t and team AZK were a bunch of a holes day 2 was pretty pretty good!
That's because it wasn't AZK running the show anymore but random volunteers, I think.
just sad.. How could they abuse the system so much in favor of their own members? Hope all of them are banned from future events, even if they decide to leave their team.
On November 08 2011 17:49 cowww wrote: Went back to the event on the 2nd day. The event ran much much smoother. There was fewer people because it wasn't a holiday anymore. The games were played faster. It was more organized. Even though the 1st day was peice of sh*t and team AZK were a bunch of a holes day 2 was pretty pretty good!
That's because it wasn't AZK running the show anymore but random volunteers, I think.
Nope still the same guys from day 1. I remember their faces. Gus was also roaming around the player areas. But the cameras was controlled by some random contractor which always showed the audience or the players faces when there was a clash.
This is what makes SC2 and e-sports in general great: The community and the organizations that produce content for us have a relationship in which we demand forthright behavior from producers and they receive loyalty from us. I have no doubt based on the community feedback that the people who organized this event are through in the SC2 scene, and the IPL has only strengthened their relationship to the community by castigating their bad behavior and aplogizing for being associated with the event.
This is such a great community to be a part of. And mad respect to the IPL, of course, for bringing the honesty that the community demands .
On November 08 2011 16:15 HellionDrop wrote: who are the two Australian girl casters???? can you add them to your casting team???
They're LiviBee and CheekyDuck. And they're only casting because they're on Team AZK and the-master-of-the-known-universe Gus decided it was appropriate that they cast some games. Even though only Tastosis were supposed to be casting.
Cheeky and Livi are most definitely not on Team AZK.
Also, to the people saying Australia deserves it more; why don't you guys have the initiative to actually make a proper event that would eclipse this? Give IPL a reason to trust you MORE with their qualifiers. It would be easy after seeing how screwed up this was for most people; and I'm sure you have enough people there to make it work.
We already have, the Australian Qualifiers for this event were run better and more professionally then the pacific event. And that was done with almost no funding. (Granted, it was online) but that's just one example
The Australian WCG finals were recently held on the gold coast at EB Games Expo. They ran on time and had Decent internet connections. I went to this event live, and so i am unable to comment on stream production quality, if it was even streamed?
I did stream the event in decent quality, but unfortunately we lacked the infrastructure to provide commentary. Time limitations and whatnot.
On November 08 2011 17:49 cowww wrote: Went back to the event on the 2nd day. The event ran much much smoother. There was fewer people because it wasn't a holiday anymore. The games were played faster. It was more organized. Even though the 1st day was peice of sh*t and team AZK were a bunch of a holes day 2 was pretty pretty good!
I don't know about the rest of the event, but I do know that CSN took over the stream on day 2 and it was brilliantly presented.
TEAM AZK IS A HOAX GUS SCREWS EVERYONE OVER HIS SELFISHNESS. JUST LIKE HOW HE WANTS 50% of what violet got during IPL 3. WHAT A SCUMBAG! AZK SHAMED THE WHOLE OF SC2SEA!
Very well spoken. Thank you for raising the bar and making eSports better for everyone. IPL has always had great production value. I appriciate that they're doing whatever they can to support the community. Like Tastosis says, Techonlogy is the vehicle of eSports, and sometimes that vehicle breaks down. It is one of the PPSLs first large scale events (we're they in a shopping mall?), so it's not suprising that there were some logistical mishaps. Hopefully they can push on and have many more great events. I'm still watching both the PPSL and IGN/PL cause I LOVE STARCRAFT! and Tastosis.
On November 08 2011 20:18 MistahRager wrote: TEAM AZK IS A HOAX GUS SCREWS EVERYONE OVER HIS SELFISHNESS. JUST LIKE HOW HE WANTS 50% of what violet got during IPL 3. WHAT A SCUMBAG! AZK SHAMED THE WHOLE OF SC2SEA!
Thanks to everyone at IPL for trying their best to make this event happen despite AZK being a completely corrupt joke of an organisation. You did the right thing by removing your support from the event and denying them the exposure they would have gained through your channels. I hope this lesson teaches everyone to be more careful when setting up tournaments.
Big respect to IPL. The kind of standard they and other great organisers are setting in eSports should be practiced more often. You can tell they care about eSports as a whole and recognise that it has a symbiotic relationship with their business model. That aside, you can tell the people behind it have a real passion.
I also think it's great that shabby organisations get called out, so that they can either get their act together or get off the scene.
I'm looking forward to seeing you cast the replays soon enough, with good production quality. I'm guessing we wont see blunders like this in the future.
Good to know you take care of the issue. It's sad though, so many negative things happened recently. I hope that with such approach as presented here (and partially by Carmac in payments thread), everything will turn out well for esports.
On November 08 2011 20:18 MistahRager wrote: TEAM AZK IS A HOAX GUS SCREWS EVERYONE OVER HIS SELFISHNESS. JUST LIKE HOW HE WANTS 50% of what violet got during IPL 3. WHAT A SCUMBAG! AZK SHAMED THE WHOLE OF SC2SEA!
Apparently AZK made a thread on TL (now moved to a private forum) about acquiring Team MVP's captain viOlet, and early registrations for IPL 4 Pacific Qualifiers had him listed as AZKviOlet. There was also an announcement of this on GosuGamers from AZK.
I play sc2 nearly everyday. I am a fan of esports, and I support my favourite Terran players with passion and pride. I watch and admire the international famous players, but as an Australian, I respect and look up to our home grown talent. Yoon YJ is one of my favourite players. I am discusted at this news however it is clear that the community is as well and it will not be tollerated. Some have said Yoon deserves another chance, which he does, however, I believe great players can't be stopped. Yoon YJ will be back, because despite being a gentlemen and a genuinely nice bloke, he rocks at Starcraft II.
On November 08 2011 20:18 MistahRager wrote: TEAM AZK IS A HOAX GUS SCREWS EVERYONE OVER HIS SELFISHNESS. JUST LIKE HOW HE WANTS 50% of what violet got during IPL 3. WHAT A SCUMBAG! AZK SHAMED THE WHOLE OF SC2SEA!
Apparently AZK made a thread on TL (now moved to a private forum) about acquiring Team MVP's captain viOlet, and early registrations for IPL 4 Pacific Qualifiers had him listed as AZKviOlet. There was also an announcement of this on GosuGamers from AZK.
On November 08 2011 20:18 MistahRager wrote: TEAM AZK IS A HOAX GUS SCREWS EVERYONE OVER HIS SELFISHNESS. JUST LIKE HOW HE WANTS 50% of what violet got during IPL 3. WHAT A SCUMBAG! AZK SHAMED THE WHOLE OF SC2SEA!
Apparently AZK made a thread on TL (now moved to a private forum) about acquiring Team MVP's captain viOlet, and early registrations for IPL 4 Pacific Qualifiers had him listed as AZKviOlet. There was also an announcement of this on GosuGamers from AZK.
Why did TL feel the need to cover up Gus mistakes?
Unnecessary drama that could have been simple miscommunication between two parties. Or something similar. In light of recent events though, I doubt that was the case.
People need to chill out if everything isn't perfect. Yes e-sports is growing etc, things should improve etc, but that doesn't mean we should rage about imperfections overnight. Some decent players were there and stream was watchable? That's me happy.
On November 08 2011 22:20 Tone_ wrote: People need to chill out if everything isn't perfect. Yes e-sports is growing etc, things should improve etc, but that doesn't mean we should rage about imperfections overnight. Some decent players were there and stream was watchable? That's me happy.
Your happy because you probably don't care for the growth of esports, and you probably don't care for the players either. Contracts were broken and also Hon teams flew over there to find out there was no Hon tournament, sponsors put in a lot of money for a failed event.. Things like this hurt e sports because it make sponsors think twice about putting money into events such as these.
It wasn't your guys fault and I think everyone here knows that. It was good for you to come here and tell us that the support for PPSL isn't over, because now we know those players didn't waste their time. Honestly I think you guys should do a PPSL yourselves somehow, but if the tournament itself was run fair then there isn't a reason to do so.
Dunno if i posted in here already, but it's clear you did the right thing. I want ESPORTS representatives i can respect, and you guys give me that. Good luck.
I really hope the Phillipines ESPORTS community can galvanize together after this and not suffer any significant set backs. I would dearly love to see a legit tournament run there which they can be proud of after this mess.
Whole thing is embarrassing really. I want to pretend it never happened, but that would be the worst thing i could do right now next to trying to justify it all.
Really nicely done IGN. This is how you handle a screw-up and every other member of this scene, look at the positive response IGN, rightfully, has gotten because of this response.
Can't wait to see what this pathetic piece of feces has to say.. then to see how everyone DESTROYS HIM F*** F*** thanks for setting SEA back another year F***WIT
Well played, IGN. I know from experience how much it hurts to have someone misrepresent your brand, and I think this is the correct way to approach this unfortunate situation. Much respect.
really impressed with IGN's decision in every way. Not letting these losers ruin their rep on their stream, still providing players and audience the experience they can by continuing to support the event, and discrediting the organisers publicly so that they can't continue with their shenanigans.
On November 08 2011 22:20 Tone_ wrote: People need to chill out if everything isn't perfect. Yes e-sports is growing etc, things should improve etc, but that doesn't mean we should rage about imperfections overnight. Some decent players were there and stream was watchable? That's me happy.
It's not about imperfections. Columbus was imperfection, or disaster rather, but it was fixed for future events so it's all kewl. But this guy wanted to scam some people. That's some freakin problem. Imperfections are ok if the attitude is right, if people are trying to improve their events etc. But if someone wants to scam and only cares about his benefit then it needs to be shut down and expelled from community.
Very impressed to see them take a stand and explain their position. It must be tough to watch that horrible performance knowning that your brand name is associated with it. I don't think anyone blames IGN or IPL for the poor showing and hopefully it will be forgotten and we can all look forward to an amazing IPL4.
I hope YoonYJ gets some sort of compensation out of this, or this Gus character gets his comeuppance. Same with the HoN teams, hope they can get another event.
It's really unfortunate that AZK or Gus hasn't said anything yet. This is only hurting their credibility the longer it drags on. Not that it seems there is anything that they could say that would make this even LOOK right at this point, but both sides of the story are important.
Great post. Fix the problem though, make it right which i think you are doing.
As for peopl enot making statements ... i dont think them being quiet hurts them. If they started defending themselves it would turn intoa shit storm.
Things went wrong. Compensating people and adapting approaches should be enough.
The thing with posts like this is because they are prefectly reasonable they resonate eve if they are total rubbish. Its best to leave everything becaquse if it really is one sided then its a legal matter. Its in noones interest to turn it into a forum war.
IPL isn't taking responsibility. They did nothing wrong other than placing their trust in several individuals that had never shown reason to suspect them of lying. I hope IPL still attempts to hold a tournament in this region for the next IPL with another partner! gl
I didn't watch last night, but I've always loved IGN for being so perfect at delivering content that this makes no difference to me. Still my nr. 2 show! (sorry GSL comes first due to mad korean skills)
On November 09 2011 04:27 Sha1hulud wrote: IPL isn't taking responsibility. They did nothing wrong other than placing their trust in several individuals that had never shown reason to suspect them of lying. I hope IPL still attempts to hold a tournament in this region for the next IPL with another partner! gl
That is exactly what i was thinking when everyone said stuff about the responsibility. They just denied the stream and saved themselves a bad name. IF they are truly taken responsibility they would go after Gus and put that in their statement instead of pulling away the tools.
On November 09 2011 04:27 Sha1hulud wrote: IPL isn't taking responsibility. They did nothing wrong other than placing their trust in several individuals that had never shown reason to suspect them of lying. I hope IPL still attempts to hold a tournament in this region for the next IPL with another partner! gl
That is exactly what i was thinking when everyone said stuff about the responsibility. They just denied the stream and saved themselves a bad name. IF they are truly taken responsibility they would go after Gus and put that in their statement instead of pulling away the tools.
I think that pursuing Gus falls outside the realm of reasonable responsibility. The community will naturally seek to distant themselves from Gus because of the events that unfolded, but I don't feel that IPL has any responsibility to exact revenge of sorts.
That being said, I still want to see them make him hang.(metaphorically speaking of course)
Posted this on the other thread, is it ok to post this here, too?
Just just just got home from the event (passed on attending the after party...I was invited, but a humble spectator after all, and it didn't feel right. point being that's how friggin' nice everyone was.). I believe I can bring some unique insight into the event. I only watched the stream for day 1 and was there live for day 2. Been lurking here since forever but am absolutely compelled to speak my mind now.
I want to share what I saw, heard and experienced not to throw anyone under the bus, but rather to make sure that the Filipino SC2/e-sports scene is not misrepresented or tarnished by THE MISTAKES OF AN INDIVIDUAL. We, the fans, want more tourneys, more Tastosis, more awesome games, more E-SPORTS. We, the fans, are ready and willing and love e-sports with a passion, too. Rachel/Seltzer even told me that they're used to events screwing up that badly, especially first-time ones. She reassured me that PPSL Day 1 is by no means enough to scare her or her colleagues away from returning to the Philippines for e-sports events. (Looking at you, IPL.)
So of course, the stream was absolutely horrible on the first day. Us Filipino SC2 fans were really embarrassed and could not believe how badly "Gus" dropped the proverbial ball. (Much on this later)
Cut to Day 2. I have to say, the live event was simply AWESOME for the live fans. The SC2 fans in attendance had a blast and so many students and office workers and just so many different people from different walks of life were exposed to SC2. I was there from start to pack-up and aside from one internet problem and one dropped player (MKP I believe), the event went rather smoothly from a live spectator's POV. Thank you Torch, Seltzer, Tastosis, Justin, etc. for really stepping up for the fans and doing more than you were paid to. You really saved the event and Gus' behind to a certain extent. I watched Torch play the role of floor director the WHOLE DAY; speaking to players, the stream crew, the video crew, etc. Tastosis really upped everyone's spirits every time they took to the mics; making light of the flaws of the event and just being so nice to the fans that swarmed them.
Though the stream was horrible (day 1) and passable (day 2), the live event was good for the local SC2 scene and e-sports in the Philippines. The event, for how flawed it was, was but a first step and really really really did a lot for the fans and the community (even revealing, according to a lot of insiders, a few "scam artists" along the way).
I made it a point to speak to A LOT of people at the event regarding all the problems. The general consensus was that THIS WAS NOT THE BEST THAT THE PHILIPPINE SC2 SCENE HAD TO OFFER. As it turns out, numerous SC2 and LoL and HoN events have been successfully held just a week or two prior to the PPSL (solid streams and insane live events....by other more organized and, according to insiders, more "honorable" individuals). Heck, my internet connection here at home is pretty solid as well.
The general consensus was that IPL JUST CHOSE THE WRONG PEOPLE TO PARTNER WITH and that THOSE PEOPLE looked like they BARELY KNEW WHAT THEY WERE DOING.
E-sports in the Philippines is in its infancy but is rapidly growing. We, the SC2 fans, implore you not to give up on us. We most certainly will need help with the next major international e-sports event....please let there be another one...many more, even. Please do not let one bad event by one incompetent individual ruin it for us, the fans. Just ask Tastosis, Seltzer, Torch, etc. ...they didn't expect us to be as numerous or as ravenous as we were. I believe we blew them away. FYI the "crowd mic" was actually off to one side on the front row....pointing at a silent fan's lap.
I'm curious how IPL screened or chose PPSL as the contractor/organizer of the event. Reading all these back-stories and dramas and links hidden here and there, I think that Dox could've done a better job on representing the IPL name. Or even Mineski with the history of live events they did.
Did PPSL have a repertoire of live tournaments? Or did "Gus" butter IPL up with fancy fliers and posters?
The obvious question is, Why Gus in the first place?
On November 09 2011 06:53 jayman wrote: I'm curious how IPL screened or chose PPSL as the contractor/organizer of the event. Reading all these back-stories and dramas and links hidden here and there, I think that Dox could've done a better job on representing the IPL name. Or even Mineski with the history of live events they did.
Did PPSL have a repertoire of live tournaments? Or did "Gus" butter IPL up with fancy fliers and posters?
The obvious question is, Why Gus in the first place?
probably through internet connections, IGN might not have had much/any communication with the philippines until now.
On November 08 2011 15:11 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: The state of Esports right now depends a lot on the quality of individuals. This will get less over time. It's just sort of the way it goes in a new industry where initiative is rewarded but may just as well go wrong. One guy fucking up does not mean Philippines isn't ready, and I hope everyone understands this.
I do think that a company like IPL (and TeamLiquid as well) should be very wary of who we associate ourselves with. It can often be tempting to listen to golden promises, but oftentimes it's better to decline something potentially good than to get into something with an unknown factor being in charge.
Not to take any blame away from AZK but IPL should have taken greater care in selecting partners - especially the first huge event in SEA, which is bound to generate a lot of attention. There is already an established esports organization in Philippines - MINESKI!! - that has experience hosting international organizations. Wonder why Mski wasn't the first choice.
Afaik the reason behind they choose the PPSL as the IPL 4 qualifiers, is because of the presence of Korean high-tier players like MKP,MC and the others partipating in PPSL. I maybe wrong tho.
On November 08 2011 15:11 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: The state of Esports right now depends a lot on the quality of individuals. This will get less over time. It's just sort of the way it goes in a new industry where initiative is rewarded but may just as well go wrong. One guy fucking up does not mean Philippines isn't ready, and I hope everyone understands this.
I do think that a company like IPL (and TeamLiquid as well) should be very wary of who we associate ourselves with. It can often be tempting to listen to golden promises, but oftentimes it's better to decline something potentially good than to get into something with an unknown factor being in charge.
Not to take any blame away from AZK but IPL should have taken greater care in selecting partners - especially the first huge event in SEA, which is bound to generate a lot of attention. There is already an established esports organization in Philippines - MINESKI!! - that has experience hosting international organizations. Wonder why Mski wasn't the first choice.
Afaik the reason behind they choose the PPSL as the IPL 4 qualifiers, is because of the presence of Korean high-tier players like MKP,MC and the others partipating in PPSL. I maybe wrong tho.
Pretty sure those players came after IGN was involved. As I understand it Gus used IGN money to get the high-tier players there.
On November 09 2011 07:34 pdd wrote: Summary of !@#$ Slasher (Torch and Thegunrun's story):
- Torch was only there with an informal role to provide assistance and support to Korean players (if needed). TheGunrun was there to provide streaming assistance and to ensure event went alright since Twitch.tv was a sponsor. - venue was set up relatively late (11pm the night before) - internet was slow - Gus was not around and uncontactabele till about 2-3pm the first day and it was chaos as no one knew what was happening the first day or who to talk to to get things done. - they eventually got internet faster (thanks to the ISP), they realize there were problems with hardware as well. - Gus was around for most of the time after that, but wasn't really doing much to assist with production, just preparing his "apology" speech, which eventually became a "thank you for watching, we made it" speech. - Torch said that Gus said he was intending to hold another HoN tournament to pay off the $2k, but suspects it could be a way of waving off the heat. - Gus has been AWOL since the end of the tournament - AZK crew and production staff were very responsive to helping Torch and Thegunrun - Despite the "fake" VIP passes, in general crowd feedback was good. - TheGunrun: Mineski production/organization/stream (WCG Phillipines qualifiers/Pinoy Gaming Festival) was so much better than this event. This is an isolated event. Please don't hate the Filipinos - LiviB and CheekyDuck had always been scheduled to cast as far as Torch and TheGunrun knew. And frankly they needed more than 1 set of casters for an event that long. - Naniwa vs Sen was delayed because it was lagging and there were sound issues (insufficient noise cancellation). - Torch and TheGunrun are looking to set up a Reddit AMA sometime in the future to clarify some of the accusations and try to shed more light on the fiasco (what is real, what is not)
And that is all I guess. Looks like this Gus guy can't really get out of this mess anymore.
Posted this on the other thread, is it ok to post this here, too?
Just just just got home from the event (passed on attending the after party...I was invited, but a humble spectator after all, and it didn't feel right. point being that's how friggin' nice everyone was.). I believe I can bring some unique insight into the event. I only watched the stream for day 1 and was there live for day 2. Been lurking here since forever but am absolutely compelled to speak my mind now.
I want to share what I saw, heard and experienced not to throw anyone under the bus, but rather to make sure that the Filipino SC2/e-sports scene is not misrepresented or tarnished by THE MISTAKES OF AN INDIVIDUAL. We, the fans, want more tourneys, more Tastosis, more awesome games, more E-SPORTS. We, the fans, are ready and willing and love e-sports with a passion, too. Rachel/Seltzer even told me that they're used to events screwing up that badly, especially first-time ones. She reassured me that PPSL Day 1 is by no means enough to scare her or her colleagues away from returning to the Philippines for e-sports events. (Looking at you, IPL.)
So of course, the stream was absolutely horrible on the first day. Us Filipino SC2 fans were really embarrassed and could not believe how badly "Gus" dropped the proverbial ball. (Much on this later)
Cut to Day 2. I have to say, the live event was simply AWESOME for the live fans. The SC2 fans in attendance had a blast and so many students and office workers and just so many different people from different walks of life were exposed to SC2. I was there from start to pack-up and aside from one internet problem and one dropped player (MKP I believe), the event went rather smoothly from a live spectator's POV. Thank you Torch, Seltzer, Tastosis, Justin, etc. for really stepping up for the fans and doing more than you were paid to. You really saved the event and Gus' behind to a certain extent. I watched Torch play the role of floor director the WHOLE DAY; speaking to players, the stream crew, the video crew, etc. Tastosis really upped everyone's spirits every time they took to the mics; making light of the flaws of the event and just being so nice to the fans that swarmed them.
Though the stream was horrible (day 1) and passable (day 2), the live event was good for the local SC2 scene and e-sports in the Philippines. The event, for how flawed it was, was but a first step and really really really did a lot for the fans and the community (even revealing, according to a lot of insiders, a few "scam artists" along the way).
I made it a point to speak to A LOT of people at the event regarding all the problems. The general consensus was that THIS WAS NOT THE BEST THAT THE PHILIPPINE SC2 SCENE HAD TO OFFER. As it turns out, numerous SC2 and LoL and HoN events have been successfully held just a week or two prior to the PPSL (solid streams and insane live events....by other more organized and, according to insiders, more "honorable" individuals). Heck, my internet connection here at home is pretty solid as well.
The general consensus was that IPL JUST CHOSE THE WRONG PEOPLE TO PARTNER WITH and that THOSE PEOPLE looked like they BARELY KNEW WHAT THEY WERE DOING.
E-sports in the Philippines is in its infancy but is rapidly growing. We, the SC2 fans, implore you not to give up on us. We most certainly will need help with the next major international e-sports event....please let there be another one...many more, even. Please do not let one bad event by one incompetent individual ruin it for us, the fans. Just ask Tastosis, Seltzer, Torch, etc. ...they didn't expect us to be as numerous or as ravenous as we were. I believe we blew them away. FYI the "crowd mic" was actually off to one side on the front row....pointing at a silent fan's lap.
We are with you guys! Props to everyone involved working their ass off (including AZK staff). Don't let this one bring you down
Way to keep it classy IGN/IPL, I suddenly have got a lot more respect for you. It's very nice to see a corporation owing up to unforeseen/foreseen shortcomings and admitting it to the public in a clear, non-ambiguous manner. +1 respect to IGN/IPL for this!
Hey so long as that guy who does that commercial isn't in IPL anymore it's fine. Everything you guys did was great. Loved the casting, didn't mind the two women who were casting. Probably their first time casting, but long time viewing. It was about time to give Toastasis a break from casting because of Tastless' voice sounded more fucked up.
- IPL has the strategy of spreading esports through sponsoring smaller events on the other side of the world. - He decided to sponsor PPSL because he felt these were a group of young people who did not have the same access of to financial resources that IPL has but had big ideas. (he met them at IPL3). - He feels that PPSL bit off more than they could chew. (but he also said he sent them Rachel, Allyn etc because he wanted it to be big - confused about this?) - He forced them to change the date or something to show that they were committed to it (didn't really get this part?) - David made a mistake of overtrusting his partners, against the advice of his team. He says he will be less trusting in the future - No direct mention of Gus.
Pls look at my post, and give me feedback whether I am being unreasonable or not. I will appreciate the feedback. You can find it at http://www.sc2sea.com/showthread.php?t=2699
- IPL has the strategy of spreading esports through sponsoring smaller events on the other side of the world. - He decided to sponsor PPSL because he felt these were a group of young people who did not have the same access of to financial resources that IPL has but had big ideas. (he met them at IPL3). - He feels that PPSL bit off more than they could chew. (but he also said he sent them Rachel, Allyn etc because he wanted it to be big - confused about this?) - He forced them to change the date or something to show that they were committed to it (didn't really get this part?) - David made a mistake of overtrusting his partners, against the advice of his team. He says he will be less trusting in the future - No direct mention of Gus.
Regarding the change of dates if I remember correctly, he mentioned during IPL3 that they made all other events that fell on the same date as IPL3 move their event (PPSL being one of them). I think making them a qualifier for IPL4 was something to compensate, tho I'm not 100% sure that's what it sounded like to me when he made the statement.
Thank you for making this announcement! Most organiziations would act as if though nothing happened and would move on without a moments notice. GL to IPL and hopefully you will be welcomed back into the SEA SC2 community in the near future with a better understanding/knowledge of what you are getting into.
If allegations of misdeeds by this Gus character are true, the only effective measure is to ban all AZK members from future IGN-sponsored events. It sucks for their players who may not be complicit but thems the breaks when you work for a corrupt organization. If the team can't get players into major events it'll be forced to disband.
Furthermore, if IGN is sincere in rectifying this situation they need to get to the bottom of this and hold Gus and AZK accountable, including paying monetary damages for any breach of contract that may have occurred.
On November 08 2011 14:16 gulshngill wrote: Thanks for the clarification IPL! If you have an SC2 event in SEA again, I suggest doing it in Singapore at least.
Very respectable from IGN. First off, I would like to thank you for bringing this event in the Philippines which was a really great deal for us since we're a third world country and we really don't have much events as big as this.
I have been to the event itself and was disappointed as well. But seeing the players in person made me forget about how the event was so disorganized. I have a friend who told me the problems that happened and its a shame for the Filipino organizers to act that way. I was in the players area and there were people arguing about something and they were really furious about it but I didn't care because I was busy looking for the players to ask for a picture and their autographs :D
I just hope that this wouldn't discourage people and organizers from bringing E-Sports to the Philippines because of this incident. Just a lesson learned for everybody that their counterparts should be screened and every little detail should be clear.
An update from Dox. I am in touch with Amanda and she is keeping me updated:
Okay just an update, this is really quite serious. I know it was announced several hours ago that Gus was on his way to the hotel to sort things out, but the travel expenses are still outstanding.
This is a message from Amanda who is possibly facing jail if this is not resolved imminently: I issued a total of php 715,000 worth of tickets. 200,000 has been paid, so the outstanding debt is close to php 516,000. Told gunrun already and like im really hoping people in the community can help as being jailed is a possibility for me. I am connected to a travel agency that is why.
This needs to be RESOLVED before someone goes to jail.
Well fuck. This event isn't just bad for the Philippines, it's bad for David Ting too. IGN gave him the go-ahead to make a major investment in e-sports, and some douche bag came to fuck it all up. I hope he doesn't wind up in any trouble because of all this.
I sat through the entire show last night, I gotta say the crowd either seemed really dead or they purposely made it so the mics didn't pick up cheering from the crowd.. It was kind of awkward hearing tastosis going "LETS HEAR SOME NOISE FOR ___________" and then complete silence following for the next 5 seconds. Whether that's the case or not, StarcraftII scene seems extremely underdeveloped in Phillipines.
On November 09 2011 17:35 FidoDido wrote: I sat through the entire show last night, I gotta say the crowd either seemed really dead or they purposely made it so the mics didn't pick up cheering from the crowd.. It was kind of awkward hearing tastosis going "LETS HEAR SOME NOISE FOR ___________" and then complete silence following for the next 5 seconds. Whether that's the case or not, StarcraftII scene seems extremely underdeveloped in Phillipines.
Errrrr no... the live audience were very ecstatic.
Please stop with all the "PH has underdeveloped esports" BS as it insults the hard work other eSports organizations have put in. We have an eSports scene here and it's great.
On November 09 2011 17:35 FidoDido wrote: I sat through the entire show last night, I gotta say the crowd either seemed really dead or they purposely made it so the mics didn't pick up cheering from the crowd.. It was kind of awkward hearing tastosis going "LETS HEAR SOME NOISE FOR ___________" and then complete silence following for the next 5 seconds. Whether that's the case or not, StarcraftII scene seems extremely underdeveloped in Phillipines.
Errrrr no... the live audience were very ecstatic.
Please stop with all the "PH has underdeveloped esports" BS as it insults the hard work other eSports organizations have put in. We have an eSports scene here and it's great.
Then what happened over there? Holding the event at a small corner in the mall, having massive delays, low stream and audio quality. maybe its not under developed but its definitely not up to par with the rest of the world.
On November 09 2011 17:35 FidoDido wrote: I sat through the entire show last night, I gotta say the crowd either seemed really dead or they purposely made it so the mics didn't pick up cheering from the crowd.. It was kind of awkward hearing tastosis going "LETS HEAR SOME NOISE FOR ___________" and then complete silence following for the next 5 seconds. Whether that's the case or not, StarcraftII scene seems extremely underdeveloped in Phillipines.
Errrrr no... the live audience were very ecstatic.
Please stop with all the "PH has underdeveloped esports" BS as it insults the hard work other eSports organizations have put in. We have an eSports scene here and it's great.
Then what happened over there? Holding the event at a small corner in the mall, having massive delays, low stream and audio quality. maybe its not under developed but its definitely not up to par with the rest of the world.
Please understand, AZK does not represent the whole of the Philippine eSports Community. There are other organizations that try, and do their best to give wonderful events. And these things have been done. It's just that one man managed to fuck up everything.
BTW, I was there in the crowd, it was pretty lively, you can ask the casters and emcees.
On November 09 2011 17:35 FidoDido wrote: I sat through the entire show last night, I gotta say the crowd either seemed really dead or they purposely made it so the mics didn't pick up cheering from the crowd.. It was kind of awkward hearing tastosis going "LETS HEAR SOME NOISE FOR ___________" and then complete silence following for the next 5 seconds. Whether that's the case or not, StarcraftII scene seems extremely underdeveloped in Phillipines.
Errrrr no... the live audience were very ecstatic.
Please stop with all the "PH has underdeveloped esports" BS as it insults the hard work other eSports organizations have put in. We have an eSports scene here and it's great.
Then what happened over there? Holding the event at a small corner in the mall, having massive delays, low stream and audio quality. maybe its not under developed but its definitely not up to par with the rest of the world.
It's at the center of the Mall. It looks like that because the area behind it is being renovated because a big part of it was caught in a huge explosion 2 years ago.
I hope people would understand that the Philippine Starcraft Community is pretty fragmented. Most of us play because we played Broodwar. There's no national league and the internet cafes that have Starcraft are few and far in between. This event could've been really good for the community(and if i didn't have to go to work, i would have been there too), but because someone decided to be incredibly greedy and/or incompetent (from what I gather), it all just got messed up.
I know that the international community does not think much of the Philippines in terms of e-sport potential if at all, and rarely does it show up in TL aside from the occasional Manny Pacquiao or national disaster thread, but we are here and appreciate this game just as much as the next guy.
I am just really disappointed about how PPSL was managed. It could have been really good. But no. Now every time a Philippine event would be held, we would be reminded of this fiasco, and comparisons will be made.
IPL are such a great events and I always tune in whenever I can. From what I understand, David Ting made a lot of things happen and I suppose took a calculated risk when IPL took on this PPSL held in Manila. I do not know David Ting personally and perhaps, never will; but I respect him a lot for what he has done for the game that I so enjoy.
From where I am right now, I can only hope that the people who were immediately directly affected.
I have stopped playing for a while, relegated myself to the reddit habit of just watching games, but after all this has happened; I feel motivated to play and organize local events again.
On November 09 2011 17:35 FidoDido wrote: I sat through the entire show last night, I gotta say the crowd either seemed really dead or they purposely made it so the mics didn't pick up cheering from the crowd.. It was kind of awkward hearing tastosis going "LETS HEAR SOME NOISE FOR ___________" and then complete silence following for the next 5 seconds. Whether that's the case or not, StarcraftII scene seems extremely underdeveloped in Phillipines.
The hell,we were so noisy. What you're saying is not true. Starcraft 2 scene is quite huge here in the Philippines. There was no Mic for the crowd so the stream can't hear us scream. Not our fault. We were even chanting "mkp, mkp" and so on.
On November 09 2011 17:35 FidoDido wrote: I sat through the entire show last night, I gotta say the crowd either seemed really dead or they purposely made it so the mics didn't pick up cheering from the crowd.. It was kind of awkward hearing tastosis going "LETS HEAR SOME NOISE FOR ___________" and then complete silence following for the next 5 seconds. Whether that's the case or not, StarcraftII scene seems extremely underdeveloped in Phillipines.
The hell,we were so noisy. What you're saying is not true. Starcraft 2 scene is quite huge here in the Philippines. There was no Mic for the crowd so the stream can't hear us scream. Not our fault. We were even chanting "mkp, mkp" and so on.
They didnt have a microphone in the crowd and people take that microphone for granted.
Although I missed watching the event and am somewhat in the dark as to what happened, I am very pleased to see IPL taking responsibility, even though they had no direct control over the event. This just goes to show the true quality of the IPL brand. Much respect to IPL. Can't wait for IPL4! ♥
Hon players flew there for nothing. Other people were fed false information and couldn't attend due to no fault of their own, in addition to having to basically beg for said info, which in turn opened space for the host party to add more of their own fold into the bracket, a hard decision to make (I'm sure). The stream quality was awful, especially day 1, and we had airheads casting when we were promised tastosis.
I feel bad for sea, and while I want back those precious moments of my life wasted on sub-par quality, personality, and professionalism I know that crying about it won't bring them back.
So I'll give IPL the benefit of a doubt this time. I like the wording in the actual statement itself, it wasn't some half-ass apology. They recognize the event was awful for many of the players/teams involved along with the stream audience. There is competition out there from various other parties, it's actually kind of crazy to think about.
tldr, event = bad for esports. IPL = good for esports.
Seriously, i wouldn't consider hosting anything in Phillipines for a long time, at the least make no forms of joint events with phillipines based organizations, far too inadequate, inconsistent, poor liability and inefficient. Even the team based from there is so sketchy. Events needs to be hosted at reliable countries with more legitimacy.
This thread must be the first time I've ever heard anyone of ^ that opinion.
In all seriousness, there were a good many people negatively effected by any and all of this, and while one person is more to blame than others, I don't see azk players coming to the forums shedding tears of blood for being part of this BS. Of course they were cooperative- they got seated amongst the best of the best in a tournament rigged for them in which they hoped to secure more known players for themselves through it all.
This is serious, people could be going to jail. The fans obviously aren't to blame but get real. Shouldn't SEA be the most upset over this in terms of region?
Yeah, I tried watching for a while. I am sad you had to pull the plug, but under the circumstances, glad you did.
Really appreciate you: Trying this tournament at all. Actually pulling the plug because of the problems. Not pulling funding (not screwing the players). Telling us the truth. A promise to try to make it up by recasting.
On November 09 2011 22:59 MildSeven wrote: Seriously, i wouldn't consider hosting anything in Phillipines for a long time, at the least make no forms of joint events with phillipines based organizations, far too inadequate, inconsistent, poor liability and inefficient. Even the team based from there is so sketchy. Events needs to be hosted at reliable countries with more legitimacy.
Mineski held an eSports event just a week prior that went quite well (WCG PH 2011). They should have been the ones who organized this.
On November 09 2011 22:36 chipman wrote: Hon players flew there for nothing. Other people were fed false information and couldn't attend due to no fault of their own, in addition to having to basically beg for said info, which in turn opened space for the host party to add more of their own fold into the bracket, a hard decision to make (I'm sure). The stream quality was awful, especially day 1, and we had airheads casting when we were promised tastosis.
to clarify, no hon player flew in. it was strictly advertised locally. duskbin, however, has a hon team based in PH and they're pretty pissed.
On November 09 2011 23:41 chipman wrote: This thread must be the first time I've ever heard anyone of ^ that opinion.
In all seriousness, there were a good many people negatively effected by any and all of this, and while one person is more to blame than others, I don't see azk players coming to the forums shedding tears of blood for being part of this BS. Of course they were cooperative- they got seated amongst the best of the best in a tournament rigged for them in which they hoped to secure more known players for themselves through it all.
This is serious, people could be going to jail. The fans obviously aren't to blame but get real. Shouldn't SEA be the most upset over this in terms of region?
The complete silence on the part of AZK is deafening and speaks for itself. IGN should seriously consider banning all players on the team who were at the event and all future members of the team as well from IPL events.
On November 09 2011 22:10 Piguarak wrote: Although I missed watching the event and am somewhat in the dark as to what happened, I am very pleased to see IPL taking responsibility, even though they had no direct control over the event. This just goes to show the true quality of the IPL brand. Much respect to IPL. Can't wait for IPL4! ♥
On the other hand if there was true quality in the IPL brand they wouldn't have handed it off to some random idiot to put on a tournament that was far too much for him to handle.
Given a lot of the information that has come to surface since the event, this Gus guy did not have a track record of running great events to begin with, but somehow managed to convince IPL to allow him to turn his Filipino tourney into an Asian qualifier, flying in tons of casters and players that would otherwise not have bothered attending. it likely would have stuck within the range of this guys capabilities and even if it didn't wouldn't have been an international debacle if it was run just as poorly by virtue of being so much smaller of scale.
If they had a bit more quality control none of this would have happened in the first place because this complete incompetent wouldn't have so easily duped them into thinking he could pull all of this off. Unless this guy is a master of social engineering to gain the trust of IPL the way he did, and it seems unlikely he is a master at anything but fucking up, I think IPL share a bit more culpability than people are attributing to them. I'd like to think you can't hand car keys to an idiot without a license and walk away scott free when he runs people over, which is pretty much what has happened.
I'm from Singapore and while i believe we have a better suited infrastructure (faster internet, access to tech, suitable convention halls etc), i still think that the Philippines is a good place to host a SEA event. They have a huge community, passion and people who will go down from different parts of the country to watch the events live. Singapore might pull off the event better but the turnout will be nowhere as large and lively as that in PH.
Stop blaming the entire country because of this incident. Mineski has shown time and time again that they are capable of organizing great dota events. Just because many people feel that it's a 'third world country' or that the scene 'isn't ready' doesn't mean that we shouldn't try at all. You think Korea didn't start somewhere?
On November 10 2011 01:19 Coruscant wrote: I'm from Singapore and while i believe we have a better suited infrastructure (faster internet, access to tech, suitable convention halls etc), i still think that the Philippines is a good place to host a SEA event. They have a huge community, passion and people who will go down from different parts of the country to watch the events live. Singapore might pull off the event better but the turnout will be nowhere as large and lively as that in PH.
Stop blaming the entire country because of this incident. Mineski has shown time and time again that they are capable of organizing great dota events. Just because many people feel that it's a 'third world country' or that the scene 'isn't ready' doesn't mean that we shouldn't try at all. You think Korea didn't start somewhere?
I agree. I'm from Indonesia. I don't care if our country was called as third world country, or whatever. But we do have infrastructure, fast internet, technology, convention center hall (we got a big one actually) etc. I don't think if holding a game event in SEA country is a bad idea/worthless/etc. I do admit, if SC2 Players in our country are not that many because most of the gamers are interested with other games that offered "free to play" method.
But if we're talking about infrastructure, we do have it. The only thing that I still doubt is, fund (money, what else? :D), and Human Resource (for example: Event Organizer who is seriously willing to make it happen). Why? because, in most of Game Festival events in our country, the EO never streaming the event over the Internet. Why? May be because money, may be because the're not aiming for that, or may be because the number of viewer are not notable. But I do know one thing, we do have infrastructure for live streaming event (the only thing is... still untouched).
While I'm glad that IPL is taking responsibility for all of this, I'm severely disappointed that they gave control and support to an incompetent douchebag.
On November 10 2011 01:19 Coruscant wrote: I'm from Singapore and while i believe we have a better suited infrastructure (faster internet, access to tech, suitable convention halls etc), i still think that the Philippines is a good place to host a SEA event. They have a huge community, passion and people who will go down from different parts of the country to watch the events live. Singapore might pull off the event better but the turnout will be nowhere as large and lively as that in PH.
Stop blaming the entire country because of this incident. Mineski has shown time and time again that they are capable of organizing great dota events. Just because many people feel that it's a 'third world country' or that the scene 'isn't ready' doesn't mean that we shouldn't try at all. You think Korea didn't start somewhere?
Thank you for this post, some ppl can be pretty ignorant.
Thanks for the apology IGN. I'm Filipino and this just pisses me off to see such idiots working on this, so unprepared. *Facepalm*
One more thing: Don't blame the country for such incident that happened. Not because I'm trying to defend it but because there are a lot of passionate people, kind and fun people there. It just turned out that we've met one of the idiots.
EPT
) accept your apology. Much respect to IPL!
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