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BW KA, please.
It would give protoss some much-needed help without bringing back "warp in storms."
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On November 05 2011 01:12 Liquid`Jinro wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2011 23:51 RemrafGrez wrote:Old games with khaydarin amulet lasted 40+ minutes and were very close going to one player or the other. See here: http://www.gomtv.net/2011gslsponsors2/vod/62509New games without KA but same players: http://www.gomtv.net/2011wcg/vod/66478Look at game 9. It worries me. Protoss up 1 base most of game? A gold base ahead for 4 minutes... from 15 minutes till 19 minutes. Harassing with warp prisms. Now SC makes more ghosts, uses snipe or EMP depending on what is better at that point in time. Makes a viking to finally shut down the harass at his main. Every big engagement goes in favor of Terran I think. And I don't think you can say SC is better than San, because San beat him earlier in the series when SC tried to do a 1 base all in. SC did beat Oz with a delayed 1/1/1 one base build in game 5. San's PvP seems lacking, but PvT he seems solid... but can't hold on going HT + DT + gateway + warp prism. Ever since KA was removed Blizzard has been struggling to retune the game it seems with wildly game changing patches. Most recent is going to be P upgrades cheaper and EMP reduced. Did KA make for a more balanced game, especially for PvT? Sc is way better than San and has been way better than San for a long time...
like.. since the KA nerf?
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On November 05 2011 00:01 KonohaFlash wrote:
No, kyhdarian amulet did not make for a balanced game. The one major reason it was removed was the fact that you could wipe out mineral lines with ease. Imagine now, when Protoss have been utilizing warp prisms more effectively, how powerful storm drops would be. Not to mention the fact that if you trade armies with a Terran you can just warp in more ht and cast storm.
The approach blizzard is currently taking with reducing the emp radius is the proper way of fixing pvt. It's emp altogether that is making Protoss suffer so much in engagements and even though your opponent can obviously make more ghosts, you can still spread out your units and not get curbstomped still.
Easier said than done, anybody who expects the radius EMP change to balance PvT is a fool, the radius is not the problem it's the fact that's it's instant, it's not a research and it does too much damage.
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Russian Federation228 Posts
On November 05 2011 00:46 Erasme wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2011 00:41 50bani wrote:On November 05 2011 00:37 RemrafGrez wrote:On November 05 2011 00:26 Snowbear wrote:
The removal had nothing to do with HT drops. It had something to do with the fact that you couldn't kill a protoss. After you killed his army, he could warp in some HT's and storm the hell out of you (which was possible since all the ghosts were dead after the fight).
Making amulet +15 energy instead of +25 would make it much more balanced. I'm OK with +15 instead of +25, but was it really impossible to kill a Protoss because of KA? That seems counter intuitive to argue. Roles reversed and P kills a T army. If you assume both players aren't missing rounds of production, in the flip scenario wouldn't Protoss have just as much trouble killing Terran because bio + ghosts + medivacs would pop, and the ghosts would have 75 energy for EMP? Or do you mean if you killed his army, you coudn't even hit an outlying expansion because he'd wait for you to arrive then warp in? Ghosts come out of Barracks, HTs come out of thin air anywhere on the map, huge difference Warp in storm anywhere on the map was op. Seriously, ghost does not insta travel to a hidden supply depot.
Great point! We should have troops calldown if they bring back KA.. NOW WE'RE TALKING!
And a lot of you are just looking at PvT, what about PvZ and PvP?
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On November 05 2011 01:13 Yaki wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2011 00:01 KonohaFlash wrote:
No, kyhdarian amulet did not make for a balanced game. The one major reason it was removed was the fact that you could wipe out mineral lines with ease. Imagine now, when Protoss have been utilizing warp prisms more effectively, how powerful storm drops would be. Not to mention the fact that if you trade armies with a Terran you can just warp in more ht and cast storm.
The approach blizzard is currently taking with reducing the emp radius is the proper way of fixing pvt. It's emp altogether that is making Protoss suffer so much in engagements and even though your opponent can obviously make more ghosts, you can still spread out your units and not get curbstomped still.
Easier said than done, anybody who expects the radius EMP change to balance PvT is a fool, the radius is not the problem it's the fact that's it's instant, it's not a research and it does too much damage.
Agreed.
The blanket emps will still wreck the protoss army just the same as before. There will be no change. Prior to 1.4.2, the emps just redundantly hit multiple units multiple times.
The net effect is that instead of draining all protoss sheilds and energy with 700 redundant sheild drain, there will only be 200 redundant sheild drain...
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I actually haven't seen any games where KA was so OP, especially against Terran. Yes it's strong but without it Protoss has really been struggling.
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On November 05 2011 01:15 sunnata wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2011 00:46 Erasme wrote:On November 05 2011 00:41 50bani wrote:On November 05 2011 00:37 RemrafGrez wrote:On November 05 2011 00:26 Snowbear wrote:
The removal had nothing to do with HT drops. It had something to do with the fact that you couldn't kill a protoss. After you killed his army, he could warp in some HT's and storm the hell out of you (which was possible since all the ghosts were dead after the fight).
Making amulet +15 energy instead of +25 would make it much more balanced. I'm OK with +15 instead of +25, but was it really impossible to kill a Protoss because of KA? That seems counter intuitive to argue. Roles reversed and P kills a T army. If you assume both players aren't missing rounds of production, in the flip scenario wouldn't Protoss have just as much trouble killing Terran because bio + ghosts + medivacs would pop, and the ghosts would have 75 energy for EMP? Or do you mean if you killed his army, you coudn't even hit an outlying expansion because he'd wait for you to arrive then warp in? Ghosts come out of Barracks, HTs come out of thin air anywhere on the map, huge difference Warp in storm anywhere on the map was op. Seriously, ghost does not insta travel to a hidden supply depot. Great point! We should have troops calldown.. NOW WE'RE TALKING! And a lot of you are just looking at PvT, what about PvZ and PvP?
PvZ
KA will help defend vs mutas
It may be an alternative to colosus against hydras.
KA not good vs roaches, brood lords, ultras.. onyl good vs clumped lings and vs hydras.
drop play is risky vs zerg because they get easy map cotnrol
PvP this would be interesting. obviuosly mirror matches should be held to a different measure of balance.. but if this results in less colosus battles, id be all for it
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What if KA came back but instead of increasing starting energy it just increased the rate of energy generation by a small amount so that storms from warp ins came quicker but weren't instant?
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I would say the KA was OP and u cant compare storm with EMP just for the one reason u can kill units with a storm but u can get off 1 billion emps on the protoss army and no unit will die ...
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On November 05 2011 00:50 Noocta wrote:
Stop with KA seriously.
Warp a templar, wait for energy to storm = produce a ghost/ infestor with energy upgrade
It's the SAME TIME.
This might be true, but then what is the point of having high templars on warpgate tech? If you have to warp in and wait, then there is no difference to having made them from a gateway or a robo. It seems useless to have high templars on warpgat etech if you have to wait anyway. It makes high templars the exceptions to warpgate tech, which feels awkward.
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On November 05 2011 01:17 Roxy wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2011 01:15 sunnata wrote:On November 05 2011 00:46 Erasme wrote:On November 05 2011 00:41 50bani wrote:On November 05 2011 00:37 RemrafGrez wrote:On November 05 2011 00:26 Snowbear wrote:
The removal had nothing to do with HT drops. It had something to do with the fact that you couldn't kill a protoss. After you killed his army, he could warp in some HT's and storm the hell out of you (which was possible since all the ghosts were dead after the fight).
Making amulet +15 energy instead of +25 would make it much more balanced. I'm OK with +15 instead of +25, but was it really impossible to kill a Protoss because of KA? That seems counter intuitive to argue. Roles reversed and P kills a T army. If you assume both players aren't missing rounds of production, in the flip scenario wouldn't Protoss have just as much trouble killing Terran because bio + ghosts + medivacs would pop, and the ghosts would have 75 energy for EMP? Or do you mean if you killed his army, you coudn't even hit an outlying expansion because he'd wait for you to arrive then warp in? Ghosts come out of Barracks, HTs come out of thin air anywhere on the map, huge difference Warp in storm anywhere on the map was op. Seriously, ghost does not insta travel to a hidden supply depot. Great point! We should have troops calldown.. NOW WE'RE TALKING! And a lot of you are just looking at PvT, what about PvZ and PvP? PvZ KA will help defend vs mutas It may be an alternative to colosus against hydras. KA not good vs roaches, brood lords, ultras.. onyl good vs clumped lings and vs hydras. drop play is risky vs zerg because they get easy map cotnrol PvP this would be interesting. obviuosly mirror matches should be held to a different measure of balance.. but if this results in less colosus battles, id be all for it
You are confusing what is good. Storm is good against Mutas and an alternative to Colossi vs Hydras. KA does not make storm better or worse vs these things. What KA does it make it so it removes any strategical positioning with your HT and army. You don't have to use anything to defend until you need to defend which removes a big element of play. The opponent can no longer force your hand into a specific position so he can abuse a hole it creates somewhere else since with KA there are no holes.
That in a nutshell is why KA was removed. It doesn't add options to the game, it removes them.
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On November 05 2011 01:12 Liquid`Jinro wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2011 23:51 RemrafGrez wrote:Old games with khaydarin amulet lasted 40+ minutes and were very close going to one player or the other. See here: http://www.gomtv.net/2011gslsponsors2/vod/62509New games without KA but same players: http://www.gomtv.net/2011wcg/vod/66478Look at game 9. It worries me. Protoss up 1 base most of game? A gold base ahead for 4 minutes... from 15 minutes till 19 minutes. Harassing with warp prisms. Now SC makes more ghosts, uses snipe or EMP depending on what is better at that point in time. Makes a viking to finally shut down the harass at his main. Every big engagement goes in favor of Terran I think. And I don't think you can say SC is better than San, because San beat him earlier in the series when SC tried to do a 1 base all in. SC did beat Oz with a delayed 1/1/1 one base build in game 5. San's PvP seems lacking, but PvT he seems solid... but can't hold on going HT + DT + gateway + warp prism. Ever since KA was removed Blizzard has been struggling to retune the game it seems with wildly game changing patches. Most recent is going to be P upgrades cheaper and EMP reduced. Did KA make for a more balanced game, especially for PvT? Sc is way better than San and has been way better than San for a long time...
This!! I remember that game. First off, I think it was on old Terminus where every player could turtle on 3bases. Sc basically won after 20minutes, but San could just everytime instant warp in storm which saved him as Sc was running around with very few medivacs. Sc finally won after 40min after destroying several expos when San ran out of gas and couldnt produce hts anymore. He was called wack-a-mole toss because of this game. It only showed how broke KA and warp tech in combination was as San stayed waaaaay longer in that game than he should have. I still think blizzard shouldnt remove KA, maybe only add 15energy instead of 25? But the example of the OP was just terrible....
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On November 05 2011 01:15 sunnata wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2011 00:46 Erasme wrote:On November 05 2011 00:41 50bani wrote:On November 05 2011 00:37 RemrafGrez wrote:On November 05 2011 00:26 Snowbear wrote:
The removal had nothing to do with HT drops. It had something to do with the fact that you couldn't kill a protoss. After you killed his army, he could warp in some HT's and storm the hell out of you (which was possible since all the ghosts were dead after the fight).
Making amulet +15 energy instead of +25 would make it much more balanced. I'm OK with +15 instead of +25, but was it really impossible to kill a Protoss because of KA? That seems counter intuitive to argue. Roles reversed and P kills a T army. If you assume both players aren't missing rounds of production, in the flip scenario wouldn't Protoss have just as much trouble killing Terran because bio + ghosts + medivacs would pop, and the ghosts would have 75 energy for EMP? Or do you mean if you killed his army, you coudn't even hit an outlying expansion because he'd wait for you to arrive then warp in? Ghosts come out of Barracks, HTs come out of thin air anywhere on the map, huge difference Warp in storm anywhere on the map was op. Seriously, ghost does not insta travel to a hidden supply depot. Great point! We should have troops calldown if they bring back KA.. NOW WE'RE TALKING! And a lot of you are just looking at PvT, what about PvZ and PvP?
Storms have always been a non-issue in PvP. In PvZ they only seemed to impact super heavy muta plays. There was a series between San (I think) and Nestea in the GSL a while back where he barely held a heavy, heavy muta play using warp in storms. I don't really see this as an issue because heavy muta plays are something P lacks a really solid response to and it wouldn't break the matchup by any means.
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On November 05 2011 01:21 Numy wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2011 01:17 Roxy wrote:On November 05 2011 01:15 sunnata wrote:On November 05 2011 00:46 Erasme wrote:On November 05 2011 00:41 50bani wrote:On November 05 2011 00:37 RemrafGrez wrote:On November 05 2011 00:26 Snowbear wrote:
The removal had nothing to do with HT drops. It had something to do with the fact that you couldn't kill a protoss. After you killed his army, he could warp in some HT's and storm the hell out of you (which was possible since all the ghosts were dead after the fight).
Making amulet +15 energy instead of +25 would make it much more balanced. I'm OK with +15 instead of +25, but was it really impossible to kill a Protoss because of KA? That seems counter intuitive to argue. Roles reversed and P kills a T army. If you assume both players aren't missing rounds of production, in the flip scenario wouldn't Protoss have just as much trouble killing Terran because bio + ghosts + medivacs would pop, and the ghosts would have 75 energy for EMP? Or do you mean if you killed his army, you coudn't even hit an outlying expansion because he'd wait for you to arrive then warp in? Ghosts come out of Barracks, HTs come out of thin air anywhere on the map, huge difference Warp in storm anywhere on the map was op. Seriously, ghost does not insta travel to a hidden supply depot. Great point! We should have troops calldown.. NOW WE'RE TALKING! And a lot of you are just looking at PvT, what about PvZ and PvP? PvZ KA will help defend vs mutas It may be an alternative to colosus against hydras. KA not good vs roaches, brood lords, ultras.. onyl good vs clumped lings and vs hydras. drop play is risky vs zerg because they get easy map cotnrol PvP this would be interesting. obviuosly mirror matches should be held to a different measure of balance.. but if this results in less colosus battles, id be all for it You are confusing what is good. Storm is good against Mutas and an alternative to Colossi vs Hydras. KA does not make storm better or worse vs these things. What KA does it make it so it removes any strategical positioning with your HT and army. You don't have to use anything to defend until you need to defend which removes a big element of play. The opponent can no longer force your hand into a specific position so he can abuse a hole it creates somewhere else since with KA there are no holes. That in a nutshell is why KA was removed. It doesn't add options to the game, it removes them.
KA doesnt make the deathball stronger. Any templars sitting in your deathabll will already have enough energy anyways.
Protoss units are not very mobile, and they are very weak when not all together. Protoss is also the race that is most dependent on gas. It is too weakening to them to have 2 HT and a couple zealots sitting in EVERY base.
Drops are already really devastating. If your gates are on cooldown, you have no choice but to move your whole (or at least half) army do defend the drop.
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On November 05 2011 01:27 Roxy wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2011 01:21 Numy wrote:On November 05 2011 01:17 Roxy wrote:On November 05 2011 01:15 sunnata wrote:On November 05 2011 00:46 Erasme wrote:On November 05 2011 00:41 50bani wrote:On November 05 2011 00:37 RemrafGrez wrote:On November 05 2011 00:26 Snowbear wrote:
The removal had nothing to do with HT drops. It had something to do with the fact that you couldn't kill a protoss. After you killed his army, he could warp in some HT's and storm the hell out of you (which was possible since all the ghosts were dead after the fight).
Making amulet +15 energy instead of +25 would make it much more balanced. I'm OK with +15 instead of +25, but was it really impossible to kill a Protoss because of KA? That seems counter intuitive to argue. Roles reversed and P kills a T army. If you assume both players aren't missing rounds of production, in the flip scenario wouldn't Protoss have just as much trouble killing Terran because bio + ghosts + medivacs would pop, and the ghosts would have 75 energy for EMP? Or do you mean if you killed his army, you coudn't even hit an outlying expansion because he'd wait for you to arrive then warp in? Ghosts come out of Barracks, HTs come out of thin air anywhere on the map, huge difference Warp in storm anywhere on the map was op. Seriously, ghost does not insta travel to a hidden supply depot. Great point! We should have troops calldown.. NOW WE'RE TALKING! And a lot of you are just looking at PvT, what about PvZ and PvP? PvZ KA will help defend vs mutas It may be an alternative to colosus against hydras. KA not good vs roaches, brood lords, ultras.. onyl good vs clumped lings and vs hydras. drop play is risky vs zerg because they get easy map cotnrol PvP this would be interesting. obviuosly mirror matches should be held to a different measure of balance.. but if this results in less colosus battles, id be all for it You are confusing what is good. Storm is good against Mutas and an alternative to Colossi vs Hydras. KA does not make storm better or worse vs these things. What KA does it make it so it removes any strategical positioning with your HT and army. You don't have to use anything to defend until you need to defend which removes a big element of play. The opponent can no longer force your hand into a specific position so he can abuse a hole it creates somewhere else since with KA there are no holes. That in a nutshell is why KA was removed. It doesn't add options to the game, it removes them. KA doesnt make the deathball stronger. Any templars sitting in your deathabll will already have enough energy anyways. Protoss units are not very mobile, and they are very weak when not all together. Protoss is also the race that is most dependent on gas. It is too weakening to them to have 2 HT and a couple zealots sitting in EVERY base. Drops are already really devastating. If your gates are on cooldown, you have no choice but to move your whole (or at least half) army do defend the drop.
You basically saying you want a invincible race. Cool
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Every big engagement should favor terran as it takes them so much longer to reproduce, I thought the 100 pages of thread on the KA patch pretty much mooted discussion of this but apparently not. The upgrade made it so that as long as a Protoss had gas, the amount of units Terran had at the end of engagements were irrelevant, it was ridiculous and needed to be nerfed/removed.
I still played random then too, so I wasn't favored one way or the other, but every Protoss had to admit that it was a bit too easy. Game length really doesn't mean anything, and you need a RIDICULOUSLY LARGER sample to say it does. And sC is >san then and now IMO.
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On November 05 2011 01:29 Numy wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2011 01:27 Roxy wrote:On November 05 2011 01:21 Numy wrote:On November 05 2011 01:17 Roxy wrote:On November 05 2011 01:15 sunnata wrote:On November 05 2011 00:46 Erasme wrote:On November 05 2011 00:41 50bani wrote:On November 05 2011 00:37 RemrafGrez wrote:On November 05 2011 00:26 Snowbear wrote:
The removal had nothing to do with HT drops. It had something to do with the fact that you couldn't kill a protoss. After you killed his army, he could warp in some HT's and storm the hell out of you (which was possible since all the ghosts were dead after the fight).
Making amulet +15 energy instead of +25 would make it much more balanced. I'm OK with +15 instead of +25, but was it really impossible to kill a Protoss because of KA? That seems counter intuitive to argue. Roles reversed and P kills a T army. If you assume both players aren't missing rounds of production, in the flip scenario wouldn't Protoss have just as much trouble killing Terran because bio + ghosts + medivacs would pop, and the ghosts would have 75 energy for EMP? Or do you mean if you killed his army, you coudn't even hit an outlying expansion because he'd wait for you to arrive then warp in? Ghosts come out of Barracks, HTs come out of thin air anywhere on the map, huge difference Warp in storm anywhere on the map was op. Seriously, ghost does not insta travel to a hidden supply depot. Great point! We should have troops calldown.. NOW WE'RE TALKING! And a lot of you are just looking at PvT, what about PvZ and PvP? PvZ KA will help defend vs mutas It may be an alternative to colosus against hydras. KA not good vs roaches, brood lords, ultras.. onyl good vs clumped lings and vs hydras. drop play is risky vs zerg because they get easy map cotnrol PvP this would be interesting. obviuosly mirror matches should be held to a different measure of balance.. but if this results in less colosus battles, id be all for it You are confusing what is good. Storm is good against Mutas and an alternative to Colossi vs Hydras. KA does not make storm better or worse vs these things. What KA does it make it so it removes any strategical positioning with your HT and army. You don't have to use anything to defend until you need to defend which removes a big element of play. The opponent can no longer force your hand into a specific position so he can abuse a hole it creates somewhere else since with KA there are no holes. That in a nutshell is why KA was removed. It doesn't add options to the game, it removes them. KA doesnt make the deathball stronger. Any templars sitting in your deathabll will already have enough energy anyways. Protoss units are not very mobile, and they are very weak when not all together. Protoss is also the race that is most dependent on gas. It is too weakening to them to have 2 HT and a couple zealots sitting in EVERY base. Drops are already really devastating. If your gates are on cooldown, you have no choice but to move your whole (or at least half) army do defend the drop. You basically saying you want a invincible race. Cool
How does that make the race invincible?
1 storm wont stop a drop all on its own.
Drops require a hell of a lot more than 1 template to drop.
Protoss never wins a battle cost effectively in small numbers unless someone is attacking into a place they really shouldnt be attackign into.
There is such little risk attacking protoss as a harassment. You get in, do damage, and are out before protoss can respond.
Against terran and zerg, whatever you drop in the enemy base will almost certainly die before doing damage greater than the cost of the units doing the damage.
Are you saying you want to be able to have blind success doing drops?
You dont want there to be any risk involved?
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On November 05 2011 01:29 Numy wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2011 01:27 Roxy wrote:On November 05 2011 01:21 Numy wrote:On November 05 2011 01:17 Roxy wrote:On November 05 2011 01:15 sunnata wrote:On November 05 2011 00:46 Erasme wrote:On November 05 2011 00:41 50bani wrote:On November 05 2011 00:37 RemrafGrez wrote:On November 05 2011 00:26 Snowbear wrote:
The removal had nothing to do with HT drops. It had something to do with the fact that you couldn't kill a protoss. After you killed his army, he could warp in some HT's and storm the hell out of you (which was possible since all the ghosts were dead after the fight).
Making amulet +15 energy instead of +25 would make it much more balanced. I'm OK with +15 instead of +25, but was it really impossible to kill a Protoss because of KA? That seems counter intuitive to argue. Roles reversed and P kills a T army. If you assume both players aren't missing rounds of production, in the flip scenario wouldn't Protoss have just as much trouble killing Terran because bio + ghosts + medivacs would pop, and the ghosts would have 75 energy for EMP? Or do you mean if you killed his army, you coudn't even hit an outlying expansion because he'd wait for you to arrive then warp in? Ghosts come out of Barracks, HTs come out of thin air anywhere on the map, huge difference Warp in storm anywhere on the map was op. Seriously, ghost does not insta travel to a hidden supply depot. Great point! We should have troops calldown.. NOW WE'RE TALKING! And a lot of you are just looking at PvT, what about PvZ and PvP? PvZ KA will help defend vs mutas It may be an alternative to colosus against hydras. KA not good vs roaches, brood lords, ultras.. onyl good vs clumped lings and vs hydras. drop play is risky vs zerg because they get easy map cotnrol PvP this would be interesting. obviuosly mirror matches should be held to a different measure of balance.. but if this results in less colosus battles, id be all for it You are confusing what is good. Storm is good against Mutas and an alternative to Colossi vs Hydras. KA does not make storm better or worse vs these things. What KA does it make it so it removes any strategical positioning with your HT and army. You don't have to use anything to defend until you need to defend which removes a big element of play. The opponent can no longer force your hand into a specific position so he can abuse a hole it creates somewhere else since with KA there are no holes. That in a nutshell is why KA was removed. It doesn't add options to the game, it removes them. KA doesnt make the deathball stronger. Any templars sitting in your deathabll will already have enough energy anyways. Protoss units are not very mobile, and they are very weak when not all together. Protoss is also the race that is most dependent on gas. It is too weakening to them to have 2 HT and a couple zealots sitting in EVERY base. Drops are already really devastating. If your gates are on cooldown, you have no choice but to move your whole (or at least half) army do defend the drop. You basically saying you want a invincible race. Cool
No, he is saying that Protoss defense sucks and that KA adds some needed defense. For example, Protoss is the only race that can actually have their buildings unpowered, as in they can have their buildings not die but still not be able to build anything. KA adds defense to Protoss bases late game.
Is adding in KA balanced? I cannot say, but it would not make Protoss invincible. It might make them OP, or it might make them more stable. It also might limit options if it forces Protoss to go Templar every game, but who knows? The game was different when it was taken away. There have been a lot of changes and it is difficult to tel what would happen if they re-introduced it. It's a moot point though since they definitely will not bring it back.
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On November 05 2011 00:05 bebe01 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2011 00:01 KonohaFlash wrote:
No, kyhdarian amulet did not make for a balanced game. The one major reason it was removed was the fact that you could wipe out mineral lines with ease. Imagine now, when Protoss have been utilizing warp prisms more effectively, how powerful storm drops would be. Not to mention the fact that if you trade armies with a Terran you can just warp in more ht and cast storm.
The approach blizzard is currently taking with reducing the emp radius is the proper way of fixing pvt. It's emp altogether that is making Protoss suffer so much in engagements and even though your opponent can obviously make more ghosts, you can still spread out your units and not get curbstomped still.
This is NOT a reason they removed it. Storm drops don't get affected at all by KA. I don't see your point here. What made KA so good was protoss could turtle expansions forever with KA + cannons.
I'm pretty sure it has been explicitly said that this IS one of the reasons it was removed. Blizzard said they didn't like the idea of basically warping in storms because it makes the HT like a one-time spell rather than a unit. They said this applied mostly to harass and also to big battles if i remember correctly...
I also like how a lot of people in favor of bringing KA back are arguing for it by saying that it's not that good. kind of ironic! haha
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On November 05 2011 00:59 RemrafGrez wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2011 00:30 SupLilSon wrote:
Wait, am I missing something from the OP? I really don't understand how those 2 games show anything about KA at all. First game is San vs Sc and second game is Oz vs MKP. So you are trying to analyze balance based off of 2 games with completely different players? You may have a point but the extreme lack of effort to provide any basis seriously hinders this argument. IIRC, even a large portion of Protoss players back then were convinced that KA was pretty damn broken. All of the games from the old series involved KA just about. Game 9 of the new series is of the same players with heavy HT play but no KA. That's 6 games, plus a non KA game to show San and SC's skill is still about equal. San is known for liking HT play, but the fact that he gets curbstomped when he's a whole gold base ahead (3 bases to 2) for 4 game minutes is mindblowing. I think that one game is a perfect example of why KA makes more sense than the route Blizz is trying to take.
One game shows that they are equal skill level? You must not watch GSL too much... Sc is a far superior player to San and IMO KA was the only reason San even took games from Sc. KA in conjunction with warpgate was a terrible function to have in the game. 6 supply of templar could wipe out 50+ supply of bio on a whim. And you would have games like the Sc vs San game where a Terran player would be astronomically ahead yet not be able to do anything because of the pure strength of KA.
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EPT
