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TORTOISE
United States515 Posts
On November 01 2011 01:43 Quasimoto3000 wrote: I am 100% for blacklisting events that are known not to pay up to players. How is it possible that the ESL is still being frequented by players? If they are notorious for not giving out prize money, IMO they should have been blacklisted since the first incident. | ||
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kawaiiryuko
United States368 Posts
Most business contracts are net 30 - paid within 30 days. 90 days would be considered delinquent in almost every context that I can think of, not to mention being complete havoc on taxes. I know of a few pro poker players who have to file quarterly (i.e. every 90 days) estimated tax returns - imagine if you win something but don't have the winnings and then having to pay taxes on it (?!?!?). In the modern age of finances, why isn't the money in escrow and then paid out to a paypal account upon completion? | ||
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Surth
Germany456 Posts
Talking about an World In Conflict tournament by ESL btw. So yeah, I guess this is pretty much standard practice for ESL... | ||
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Tyrania
Germany24 Posts
On November 01 2011 03:04 aTnClouD wrote: Thanks for your answer man, I was told by an admin I would have been contacted very soon but nothing happened so I started to worry a bit. Please excuse me for being paranoid and throwing in your name but after all these bad experiences I just don't expect anyone in esport to be trustworthy before I see a proof of it. Thank you cloud! Dont worry, i got you right! See you in the invitational finals soon  | ||
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gullberg
Sweden1301 Posts
On November 01 2011 03:09 TORTOISE wrote: How is it possible that the ESL is still being frequented by players? If they are notorious for not giving out prize money, IMO they should have been blacklisted since the first incident. Because it's the largest european league. | ||
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ES_JohnClark
United States1121 Posts
On November 01 2011 03:04 aike wrote: Who cares if it's nothing new? How about... tournaments should have prize money ON HAND before hosting a tournament. It's bullshit for them to say "$100k first place prize!" but then when they don't pay it their excuse is "sponsors haven't payed us yet sorry" DONT FUCKING HOST A TOURNAMENT IF YOUR SPONSORS HAVEN'T GIVEN YOU THE MONEY YET. Stop acting like just because this has always been like this that it is ok to keep happening. There is no reason money shouldn't be payed out within a month. IPL talking about paperwork and all that stuff, but they should have had this done and cleared up before the event even happens, they should only need to fill in the blank of the actual players name and have it be done with. You sir.. are way off base and have little understanding of how things work. Listen.. building esports will mean we take chances and we take our lumps as they come.. but it baffles me how demanding some are that have little experience in how eSports works. These issues have been happening for years.. and things are much better now then they were and we should continue to push for them to get better. Trust me.. its annoying to be working with a sponsor that you trust and that has paid out very timely in the past.. but for some reason they are having issues with a current payout and its effecting your ability to pay the players.. but such is life and I think the real issue (as someone pointed out) is how it is handled by the organization and the communication that happens between the player and organization. | ||
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NeWeNiyaLord
Norway2474 Posts
On November 01 2011 03:07 zZygote wrote: It wouldn't be possible to get most progamers to deny an event that includes money, some really need it. Tournaments will scoff at the decision you made because there are semi-pros who'll gladly take a hit to gain a fanbase or have their time in the limelight. An international body is needed. Whenever people deal with money it tends to be a very serious topic. Gaming for these guys is work, how can they feed themselves if they never even get to see the money they work for. But what I'm saying is to boycott the tournaments not paying up. or wait 1 year to do so. And if boycotting them is to harsh on the players. What about boycotting them for.. hmm i dont know, 1 month? so the companies involved understands how much money they would loose in the long term fashion, if this continues. | ||
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luuk
Austria386 Posts
On November 01 2011 03:07 Tivo17 wrote: Question to the pros and people that are in this situation: Did you sign a TOS, Contract, or any other form of waiver before competing in the tournament/cup? If you did post it here or at the very least look at it and see if there is a time period. If you did not sign one of these "contracts" the cup or tour is likely not liable to pay you anything let alone with in a reasonable time frame. Do not play in a tournament that does not have the rules, TOS, and/or contract laid out in front of you before you sign up. the real problem is, even if there is a legal document. what is a legal document in esports right now? would you consider taking legal steps against a tournament provider because, lets say, they didnt pay you your ~x00 € in time? its a hard topic :/ | ||
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Klondikebar
United States2227 Posts
Going from Sponsor to tournament to player can realistically take a disgusting amount of time. Players should obviously be paid in a timely manner, but just arbitrarily saying "players should be paid in 1 month" just doesn't sound very informed. | ||
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Imascotsman
255 Posts
On November 01 2011 01:45 TotalBiscuit wrote: Well I'm glad a progamer actually said this publicly. This was actually one of the biggest reasons we started SHOUTcraft Invitational, because I'd talked to a number of great gamers who were trying to go fulltime pro, particularly in the UK scene, but couldn't because prizemoney was so unreliable. They had to take jobs which cut into their practice time to simply be able to eat and keep a roof over their heads. Our goal with SCI was to never host a tournament that we didn't have the money on hand, ready to pay and then payout within 24 hours to any player that had a Paypal account (wire transfer takes a little longer). This kind of stuff hurts the scene for the reason given above. You can't rely on your income then you have to supplement it in way that cut into your practice time. Going pro in any game is a big risk, this only compounds that. This is why i tune in whenever i can to your stream or watch your youtube videos, you do fantastic work to support multiple gaming scenes and i appreciate all of the effort you put in. I really wasn't aware how bad this is, why do so many teams still send players or ESP / IEM events which can incur alot of travel costs of the payment at the end is not guaranteed?. | ||
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Xoronius
Germany6362 Posts
On November 01 2011 03:09 TORTOISE wrote: How is it possible that the ESL is still being frequented by players? If they are notorious for not giving out prize money, IMO they should have been blacklisted since the first incident. Because, like the players said, they give out the money, they just do it horribly late. I don´t know, why so many people keep saying, that they would´nt pay at all. | ||
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Augury
United States758 Posts
Players should also be wary when competing in smaller or lesser known tournaments, then again a lot of large events have had similar issues(CPL). http://www.g7teams.com/page/frontpage/ | ||
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h-a-r-v
Poland30 Posts
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RabidSeagull
United States220 Posts
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Seronei
Sweden991 Posts
On November 01 2011 03:11 Xoronius wrote: Because, like the players said, they give out the money, they just do it horribly late. I don´t know, why so many people keep saying, that they would´nt pay at all. Have they paid out the money to Na'vi for the the 2008(?) season yet? | ||
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driftme
United States360 Posts
On November 01 2011 03:09 kawaiiryuko wrote: In the modern age of finances, why isn't the money in escrow and then paid out to a paypal account upon completion? True, this is how it works in every other tournament setting where money is on the line (poker, races, etc). | ||
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Thrill
2599 Posts
Would be like the Asus ROG tournament taking a year to pay out - terrible reflection on the brand. | ||
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Dr_Jones
Norway252 Posts
On November 01 2011 03:05 ReachTheSky wrote: Yes you are completely bonkers . I think what would be a bit more professional is organizations paying money out within reasonable timeframes. I obviously agree with that, but as Carmac had been saying they were providing a 3 month delay for most of their tournaments. I guess this is to allow enough time to deal with all the paperwork involved with moving money around internationally (as Joshy.IGN pointed out, some countries are quite restrictive about such thing *cough The US cough*) But, why doesn't the player talk to the team manager, who then talks to the tournament manager, and resolve the issue this way? Obviously doesn't work with every small daily online cups, but for the the big name organised ones this would seem a minimum requirement? Again, I might be bonkers for expecting it, but it just seem like this would be way more professional (than posting on TL.net). I hope we reach that stage at one point in eSports, because that's when it becomes truly credible in my view | ||
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ThisGS
Germany255 Posts
They are in the process of paying out iem cologne and its 3 months ago. why all this shitting on it? it thats true i dont see any reason for a "boycott" or so... EPS and ESL Cups is a different story obv. | ||
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blizzind
United States642 Posts
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