EPTPrize money in Starcraft 2 - Page 23
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ExquisiteRed
396 Posts
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Jagd
United States71 Posts
On November 01 2011 03:10 csn_JohnClark wrote: You sir.. are way off base and have little understanding of how things work. Listen.. building esports will mean we take chances and we take our lumps as they come.. but it baffles me how demanding some are that have little experience in how eSports works. These issues have been happening for years.. and things are much better now then they were and we should continue to push for them to get better. Trust me.. its annoying to be working with a sponsor that you trust and that has paid out very timely in the past.. but for some reason they are having issues with a current payout and its effecting your ability to pay the players.. but such is life and I think the real issue (as someone pointed out) is how it is handled by the organization and the communication that happens between the player and organization. Why do you keep writing excuses for the current status quo? There's a general consensus that tournaments right now aren't as accountable as we would like them to be; what a good manager should say is that we understand there are problems, and we will communicate with our players about the problems, and in the future we will try to correct them. I.e. we will talk to sponsors to address this concern, and as our tournament starts to get a good reputation we will enforce stricter rules on our sponsors, etc. | ||
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luuk
Austria386 Posts
On November 01 2011 03:17 aTnClouD wrote: I think it's ok to pay players within 3 months, we don't expect to get the money right away (but if we do we're happy and will most likely attend the next tournament). Problem is here we're speaking about not getting the money within much longer time frames or not getting prizes at all. Some people can be really unprofessional, especially in the local scenes, and I have witnessed terrible things during the past years I've been involved in esports. I'll tell you guys something disgusting that happened recently in WCG Italy. The company responsible for WCG in Italy told everybody there would be two Starcraft 2 slots available from the italian live qualifier for the Grand Final in South Korea. Since the competition is not that high in Italy and I'm the only known international player in the country everybody was aiming for the second place slot and many people came for this. During the tournament, when the semifinals were about to be played, they informed everyone they changed the number of people going to Korea to 1 for Starcraft 2. They took away the prize from many people wanting it. In the end I qualified and the second place (StarEagle, very good italian player, worthy of representing the country in WCG Grand Final) got absolutely nothing. They took away the prize from him during the tournament he was playing. Problem is players feel powerless and we don't know what to do except informing people in this manner. that's disgusting .. | ||
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ES_JohnClark
United States1121 Posts
On November 01 2011 03:17 polarfluKe wrote: I did PM you regarding this, but I feel you have not played your part in the discussion and I have the right to say what I must say now. How exactly do you expect us to pay you? Did you bother to send me your payment details before I had to PM you earlier for them? Did you even read the tournament rules that are in place? Here is an excerpt from our Rules, updated on 13/10/2011: Payments (Added 13-10-2011) South African players must submit their banking details from their registered e-mail address Non South African players must submit their PayPal details from their registered e-mail address All prizes are paid in ZAR and thus the estimated USD value may be different to that stated on the tournament page due to currency fluctuations Players must submit their payment details within 2(two) weeks of the end of a tournament to receive their payment else the prize will be forfeit Once the 2(two) week period is over, all payments will be processed I did tell you after reading your OP that I would still make your payment even though you had failed to adhere to the rules of the tournament. This is absolutely ridiculous that you are including tournaments from 2 weeks ago; while I do support talking up about tournaments and hosts that have an extremely long wait time, you are causing damage to guys like me who do actually pay up. I work my ass off to host monthly tournaments with good prize pools. I spend hours upon hours in meetings, trying to get more money into my tournaments and with one or two posts you are able to wrongfully ruin a reputation my organization has earned. PolarfluKe has been running since May 2010 and we have run 18 tournaments for Starcraft II. Every tournament is paid up in full except for the tournament we hosted 2 weeks ago(15-16 October). If you had bothered to read the rules regarding payments (which I was forced to add because it takes players too long to send their payment details), I explicitly state how the payment structure works now. Do not lay blame on myself or my organization for payment not received when you can not adhere to simple rules. Did you bother to send your payment details to anyone in that list? Good stuff.. well defended! | ||
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Dingobloo
Australia1903 Posts
To put this in perspective though, it's still better than WCG USA for this year, not that it's any consolation. | ||
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KiF1rE
United States964 Posts
but one question i have... why is there no accountability of prize money forced by blizzard since they require them to get a license? | ||
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xSixGeneralHan
United States528 Posts
On November 01 2011 03:15 Diamond wrote: Just throwing this out there, most Non-Korean team managers actually do very little managing. I think I have dealt with one foreign team manager ever (Naz with Liquid, who is awesome) in all my time doing foreign events. I know Scoots is active with EG but most other team managers never would get involved in something like this. Why? The hell if I know, but it seems to be an issue all in itself. In the case of tournament winnings etc I think team managers should support their players and assist to give advice KR apply pressure but I don't think they should be in charge of collecting players prize money. Seems a wee bit intrusive and if I was a player I'd rather want to handle it myself. The less layers of communication you have to go through from player to person in charge is better | ||
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JohnMatrix
France1358 Posts
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DarKFoRcE
Germany1215 Posts
On November 01 2011 03:12 Thrill wrote: Wow, surprised GeForce didn't pay out. It's a brand tournament, so reflects poorly on their brand. Would be like the Asus ROG tournament taking a year to pay out - terrible reflection on the brand. well it ended a month ago, so its not a big deal that they havent paid yet imo. i have already been contacted by them and sent in the necessary forms. | ||
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driftme
United States360 Posts
On November 01 2011 03:13 Teiwaz wrote: I'm not saying that you should accept a ridiculously long waiting period. But up to 3 months is legit IMO. And even you stated that a waiting time of 30-60 days for the SPONSORS to pay their debts is nothing out of the ordinary. Yea, 30-60 is normal AP timeframe. BUT - for every event I've ever worked on (again, non-esports, but fundraisers and tournaments alike), the whole thing is planned way in advance, and when a company buys a sponsorship, the clock starts from when we start doing the printing etc for their ads/posters/whatever. NOT the day of the event. There's PLENTY of time for that money to be received and put into escrow. | ||
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TheSilverfox
Sweden1928 Posts
Every tournament should actually be able to pay the players within 60-90 days. During these 60-90 days they have plenty of time to get all the money from their sponsors. I can hardly find any excuse why money should not been transferred within these days. | ||
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Diamond
United States10796 Posts
On November 01 2011 03:24 VPGeneralHans wrote: In the case of tournament winnings etc I think team managers should support their players and assist to give advice KR apply pressure but I don't think they should be in charge of collecting players prize money. Seems a wee bit intrusive and if I was a player I'd rather want to handle it myself. The less layers of communication you have to go through from player to person in charge is better Why on earth should professional players be worrying about things like collecting money? There job is to play, it's the managers job to manage. Crazy shit I know... | ||
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Drake
Germany6146 Posts
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D u o
Canada381 Posts
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LovE-
United States1963 Posts
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Feldandfart
England14 Posts
I'd also like to point out that some Organisers deserve some props here for postimg comments/updates etc in this thread, they are clearly trying to communicate and should be given a chance to explain/remedy any problems. I'd also like to point out the distinct LACK of response from other Organisers, I for one would like to hear what they have to say about the situation and at least hear an apology to the players and the community for this appalling behaviour. Having read all the posts, I think it is safe to state the following :- 1. Prizes should be paid in full within 90 days, 30 days would be better, but we have to allow for all the legal eeee's and iiiii's to be dotted. 2. Major Events, $5000+ prize pools should have to lodge cash into some kind of Escrow account. (Ideally Blizzard shouldn't issue licences to those that don't, but that ain't gonna happen.) 3. A thread should be started (closed to players only if necessary) where they can post up tourney's that haven't paid after 90 days, so that they can see bad payers and prehaps even band together to get their money. 4. Players/Organisers and Team Owners/managers need to get more professional, sort out a standard tournament contact and start holding each other accountable for breaches. (Ofc there are numerous examples of professionals already out there but, everyone needs to be at that level.) This thread is important for the future of pro SC2 and esports in general, lets keep it that way, address the issues raised and make things better for everyone. I want to see the players, play and play their best, I want to see Organisers run brilliant tourneys and I want to be able to support Esports as a PROFESSIONAL entity. Not paying your bills is certainly not professional and we the community should be very vocal about not accepting this. Finally I would add that Organisers are reponsible for paying their bills, but if Sponsors are slow paying them then thay should be outted too and it would be interesting if any organiser would like to out a former sponsor for slow or non payment. | ||
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ES_JohnClark
United States1121 Posts
On November 01 2011 03:20 Jagd wrote: Why do you keep writing excuses for the current status quo? There's a general consensus that tournaments right now aren't as accountable as we would like them to be; what a good manager should say is that we understand there are problems, and we will communicate with our players about the problems, and in the future we will try to correct them. I.e. we will talk to sponsors to address this concern, and as our tournament starts to get a good reputation we will enforce stricter rules on our sponsors, etc. I am not writing excuses. I have been involved with these issues for probably longer then most of you have been out of diapers  . This is a real issue and something that has to be addressed.. but this thread has gotten out of hand. If you knew me.. you would know how much I HATE the fact that organizations do not pay out. It disgusted me when I was at GGL and ESL. I do stand by the fact that ESL at least paid out.. at some point.. but it bothered me to know end how long it took to pay out even $50 bucks for a small GO4 cup. I am simply saying that many in this thread need to step back and look at this from a business stand point first... then critically think about how it all works and how much things have improved. If you only knew what it was like just 5 years ago... you would understand my frustration with this current conversation. | ||
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Roggay
Switzerland6320 Posts
On November 01 2011 03:26 D u o wrote: This has been a part of eSports for forever, its a problem but how do you fix it? Do you boycott the tournament/sponsors/organizer? You don't fix it, or you set up a lot of regulations, that might end up killing a lot of tournaments. There is no perfect solution. | ||
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xtfftc
United Kingdom2343 Posts
On November 01 2011 03:15 yawnoC wrote: For me MLG sets the standard for HUGE events. No two ways about it. We have no reason to doubt MLG but it would be a good idea to wait for after the end of the season, considering that the prize pool at Providence is much higher. | ||
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Dizzy_1337
Germany11 Posts
On November 01 2011 03:17 polarfluKe wrote: I did PM you regarding this, but I feel you have not played your part in the discussion and I have the right to say what I must say now. How exactly do you expect us to pay you? Did you bother to send me your payment details before I had to PM you earlier for them? Did you even read the tournament rules that are in place? Here is an excerpt from our Rules, updated on 13/10/2011: Payments (Added 13-10-2011) South African players must submit their banking details from their registered e-mail address Non South African players must submit their PayPal details from their registered e-mail address All prizes are paid in ZAR and thus the estimated USD value may be different to that stated on the tournament page due to currency fluctuations Players must submit their payment details within 2(two) weeks of the end of a tournament to receive their payment else the prize will be forfeit Once the 2(two) week period is over, all payments will be processed I did tell you after reading your OP that I would still make your payment even though you had failed to adhere to the rules of the tournament. This is absolutely ridiculous that you are including tournaments from 2 weeks ago; while I do support talking up about tournaments and hosts that have an extremely long wait time, you are causing damage to guys like me who do actually pay up. I work my ass off to host monthly tournaments with good prize pools. I spend hours upon hours in meetings, trying to get more money into my tournaments and with one or two posts you are able to wrongfully ruin a reputation my organization has earned. PolarfluKe has been running since May 2010 and we have run 18 tournaments for Starcraft II. Every tournament is paid up in full except for the tournament we hosted 2 weeks ago(15-16 October). If you had bothered to read the rules regarding payments (which I was forced to add because it takes players too long to send their payment details), I explicitly state how the payment structure works now. Do not lay blame on myself or my organization for payment not received when you can not adhere to simple rules. Did you bother to send your payment details to anyone in that list? Yeah, I also think pro gamers should be aware of how easy they can threaten a company's reputation just by throwing their name out there. Sure we have seen that there are companies that do not pay correctly, but please leave the ones out who actually do pay. Don't just mention every company that has not paid you yet ... | ||
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