On November 03 2011 21:31 Keone wrote: Hydra, Best, Bisu, Fantasy, and possibly Flash switching to SC2?
This is sad. I'm going to go cry.
</3
But they will be able to earn more money and this is all that matters. SC2 is a gold mine in my opinion.
Right now they probably WOULDN'T earn more money in SC2 compared to broodwar. Their salaries are even bigger than two-or-three of the biggest tournaments in SC2 combined (1st place $$). Not to mention how tough it would be to compete if all the top pros would switch to SC2, it's already tough to compete with Flash in Broodwar.
That would completely depend how much salary they would be getting to play SC2.
There will be no MSL and players aren't focusing on BW like they used to. Their game will deteriorate and some nonames might win OSL over these guys. Also I believe that new TL.net community will be throwing money to them like they always do.
You think without the msl the players will slack off huh ??? , proleague games practice regimes are very hectic , not only players have to practice every matchup on that single map they are going to be sent out , they have to create their own build orders and try out new strategy .
No names you got to be kidding me , my prediction these year osl its everyone's game anyone in the top 10 has the opportunity to win the osl . No name I beg to differ.
Not my point. They are playing two games instead of one...
I don't see why there is any reason to think a switch would come. Except for hyvaa and midas, most of the accounts linked in the OP are like ~45-35 WL on ladder.
80-100 games or so is not a "switch" to sc2. It's casual playing, just to familiarize with the game in case it gets implemented in proleague (which seems likely; exactly how it will be is up in the air).
I guess someone could go through their match history, but considering bw has been off for a month (with proleague being off since mid-august), that's not any indication of a serious switch.
Point is, they're not "playing two games instead of one". It's more of a casually mingling with sc2, while either probably relaxing (sc2 can be a form of relaxation) and are still training bw as well.
edit- to further clarify, I know the new sc2 season started but most of those account weren't any more active in september (some being nonexistent). So we're essentially looking at progamers--who play games all day long and are used to work schedules of 12 hrs/day--playing only a casual amount. It's not a split of their time; they're just having a bit of a lull until proleague begins again.
On November 03 2011 21:29 Grumbels wrote: I think you all are overestimating how quickly you can become competitive. This Aria person, if he is a BW pro, won't become competitive for quite a long time. Perhaps he can get by on his mechanics in standard games, but if HuK were to do series play with him he could just fall back on a number of all-ins that might be solved by now, but that will be very potent against someone not familiar. I hope everyone remembers just how hard zerg can be if you're a new player, where you constantly die to various timings. Something similar happened when Mondragon switched and everyone was impressed by his inventive zerg play that was so similar to how it worked in Brood War, but he still lost to Cruncher because he just hadn't spent enough time with the race to be aware of the precise counter to Cruncher's strategy.
Yellow wasn't a bad BW player. When he started playing SC2 he was by far not the worst Brood War pro to have switched and look at how bad he was even after a month of practice? You definitely need more than a month, especially if you're a Brood War pro mostly good at executing things rather than innovating things. I'm not saying that's the case for all pros, but certainly for some. It just will take them some time to adjust and really work out their game enough so that their mechanical advantage can kick in. I give it around four months before they can even begin taking on players like MVP and Nestea.
Actually, YellOw barely even practised until the qualifiers were bearing down on him. And furthermore, even though I'm a YellOw fan, he certainly was among the worst BW players to switch over (which he didn't really do.. he just played some SC2 for a showmatch and a TV show). Even all the no-name semi-pros, failed pros and B-team players were better than him. He was a great player in his time and a great figurehead and personality, but he certainly wouldn't have been considered progamer-level at the end of his BW career if he wasn't already such a legend.
On November 03 2011 21:29 Grumbels wrote: I think you all are overestimating how quickly you can become competitive. This Aria person, if he is a BW pro, won't become competitive for quite a long time. Perhaps he can get by on his mechanics in standard games, but if HuK were to do series play with him he could just fall back on a number of all-ins that might be solved by now, but that will be very potent against someone not familiar. I hope everyone remembers just how hard zerg can be if you're a new player, where you constantly die to various timings. Something similar happened when Mondragon switched and everyone was impressed by his inventive zerg play that was so similar to how it worked in Brood War, but he still lost to Cruncher because he just hadn't spent enough time with the race to be aware of the precise counter to Cruncher's strategy.
Yellow wasn't a bad BW player. When he started playing SC2 he was by far not the worst Brood War pro to have switched and look at how bad he was even after a month of practice? You definitely need more than a month, especially if you're a Brood War pro mostly good at executing things rather than innovating things. I'm not saying that's the case for all pros, but certainly for some. It just will take them some time to adjust and really work out their game enough so that their mechanical advantage can kick in. I give it around four months before they can even begin taking on players like MVP and Nestea.
Actually, YellOw barely even practised until the qualifiers were bearing down on him. And furthermore, even though I'm a YellOw fan, he certainly was among the worst BW players to switch over (which he didn't really do.. he just played some SC2 for a showmatch and a TV show). Even all the no-name semi-pros, failed pros and B-team players were better than him. He was a great player in his time and a great figurehead and personality, but he certainly wouldn't have been considered progamer-level at the end of his BW career if he wasn't already such a legend.
i have a feeling that if lets say jaedong will switch to sc2 after retiring from bw and being like #15 or #30 on kespa rankings everyone will say oh he just wasnt that good in bw when he switched to sc2 thats why hes not that good
On November 03 2011 21:29 Grumbels wrote: I think you all are overestimating how quickly you can become competitive. This Aria person, if he is a BW pro, won't become competitive for quite a long time. Perhaps he can get by on his mechanics in standard games, but if HuK were to do series play with him he could just fall back on a number of all-ins that might be solved by now, but that will be very potent against someone not familiar. I hope everyone remembers just how hard zerg can be if you're a new player, where you constantly die to various timings. Something similar happened when Mondragon switched and everyone was impressed by his inventive zerg play that was so similar to how it worked in Brood War, but he still lost to Cruncher because he just hadn't spent enough time with the race to be aware of the precise counter to Cruncher's strategy.
Yellow wasn't a bad BW player. When he started playing SC2 he was by far not the worst Brood War pro to have switched and look at how bad he was even after a month of practice? You definitely need more than a month, especially if you're a Brood War pro mostly good at executing things rather than innovating things. I'm not saying that's the case for all pros, but certainly for some. It just will take them some time to adjust and really work out their game enough so that their mechanical advantage can kick in. I give it around four months before they can even begin taking on players like MVP and Nestea.
Actually, YellOw barely even practised until the qualifiers were bearing down on him. And furthermore, even though I'm a YellOw fan, he certainly was among the worst BW players to switch over (which he didn't really do.. he just played some SC2 for a showmatch and a TV show). Even all the no-name semi-pros, failed pros and B-team players were better than him. He was a great player in his time and a great figurehead and personality, but he certainly wouldn't have been considered progamer-level at the end of his BW career if he wasn't already such a legend.
i have a feeling that if lets say jaedong will switch to sc2 after retiring from bw and being like #15 or #30 on kespa rankings everyone will say oh he just wasnt that good in bw when he switched to sc2 thats why hes not that good
i dont know where you got that feeling from. yellow and everyone else that switched over werent great players at their time of departure. even forgg wasnt exactly hot shit when he mysteriously stopped appearing
Damn Aria.... My argument would be CJ_EffOrt. Why? It has been exactly one year since he has stopped participating in OSL/MSL, retiring after he beat Flash in an epic ro5. THis account has been active for approximately a year...HMM...
EffOrt he constantly been known for his ultra-aggression play and constant stream of units after units and putting opponents to submission. In BW this method has put the best of Terrans and the best of protoss completely down. This was seen off the bat with pool first play and his movement into a very quick roach timing attack and constantly trying to ram down HuKs defence at the natural. If you noted, there wasnt a single moment in the game were HuK was in the offensive. This my friend is the style of EffOrt.
During the battles, despite the forcefields he was able to manoeuvre his army in such a way such that forcefield had minimal effort however not to the extent where he knows methods so neglect the ffs fully (lack of experience)..
CJ EffOrt has been the ultimate macro zerg player. Once he gets his 4-5 bases hes practically unbeatable (his weakness has been his metagame), we've seen how he's able to max 200/200 without a macro hatch and not missing a beat.
On top of that...EffOrts been contemplating a return to the pro gaming scene....back with CJ....CJ has updated their computers...D:...
Maybe I'm just associating random facts and making up my own theory but assuming its a bw pro... Whether if its Calm, Modesty, Jaedong, Killer, ZerO etc... no one really reflects the type of gamestyle as reflected in the game as the gameplay of EffOrt..and granted it is him, I have my new #1 player until the REAL Final Boss, jumps onto the sc2 scene
On novemBer 03 2011 22:10 Deimos0 wrote: If the players switch, it all depends on current sponsors - Samsung, KT and so on - if they decide to continue sponsoring at current level, salaries should not differ too much from What BW are earning now.
So imagine ActionHoeJJaCrazy-Hydra and ZergBong on the same team. Zergbong earns the least but after switching from bw to sc2 he becomes bonjwa. Other 3 players start to suck even more than they used to. You can rise Zergbongs wage but what should you do with others?
On November 03 2011 21:29 Grumbels wrote: I think you all are overestimating how quickly you can become competitive. This Aria person, if he is a BW pro, won't become competitive for quite a long time. Perhaps he can get by on his mechanics in standard games, but if HuK were to do series play with him he could just fall back on a number of all-ins that might be solved by now, but that will be very potent against someone not familiar. I hope everyone remembers just how hard zerg can be if you're a new player, where you constantly die to various timings. Something similar happened when Mondragon switched and everyone was impressed by his inventive zerg play that was so similar to how it worked in Brood War, but he still lost to Cruncher because he just hadn't spent enough time with the race to be aware of the precise counter to Cruncher's strategy.
Yellow wasn't a bad BW player. When he started playing SC2 he was by far not the worst Brood War pro to have switched and look at how bad he was even after a month of practice? You definitely need more than a month, especially if you're a Brood War pro mostly good at executing things rather than innovating things. I'm not saying that's the case for all pros, but certainly for some. It just will take them some time to adjust and really work out their game enough so that their mechanical advantage can kick in. I give it around four months before they can even begin taking on players like MVP and Nestea.
Actually, YellOw barely even practised until the qualifiers were bearing down on him. And furthermore, even though I'm a YellOw fan, he certainly was among the worst BW players to switch over (which he didn't really do.. he just played some SC2 for a showmatch and a TV show). Even all the no-name semi-pros, failed pros and B-team players were better than him. He was a great player in his time and a great figurehead and personality, but he certainly wouldn't have been considered progamer-level at the end of his BW career if he wasn't already such a legend.
i have a feeling that if lets say jaedong will switch to sc2 after retiring from bw and being like #15 or #30 on kespa rankings everyone will say oh he just wasnt that good in bw when he switched to sc2 thats why hes not that good
Uhh, when Yellow switched his KeSPA rank was 105. Yeah, that's pretty much comparable to Jaedong.
On November 03 2011 22:29 LighT. wrote: Damn Aria.... My argument would be CJ_EffOrt. Why? It has been exactly one year since he has stopped participating in OSL/MSL, retiring after he beat Flash in an epic ro5. THis account has been active for approximately a year...HMM...
EffOrt he constantly been known for his ultra-aggression play and constant stream of units after units and putting opponents to submission. In BW this method has put the best of Terrans and the best of protoss completely down. This was seen off the bat with pool first play and his movement into a very quick roach timing attack and constantly trying to ram down HuKs defence at the natural. If you noted, there wasnt a single moment in the game were HuK was in the offensive. This my friend is the style of EffOrt.
During the battles, despite the forcefields he was able to manoeuvre his army in such a way such that forcefield had minimal effort however not to the extent where he knows methods so neglect the ffs fully (lack of experience)..
CJ EffOrt has been the ultimate macro zerg player. Once he gets his 4-5 bases hes practically unbeatable (his weakness has been his metagame), we've seen how he's able to max 200/200 without a macro hatch and not missing a beat.
On top of that...EffOrts been contemplating a return to the pro gaming scene....back with CJ....CJ has updated their computers...D:...
Maybe I'm just associating random facts and making up my own theory but assuming its a bw pro... Whether if its Calm, Modesty, Jaedong, Killer, ZerO etc... no one really reflects the type of gamestyle as reflected in the game as the gameplay of EffOrt..and granted it is him, I have my new #1 player until the REAL Final Boss, jumps onto the sc2 scene
I dont think so. Effort is back to broodwar, he got his Progammer licence some weeks ago and in a interview he said he was training BroodWar hard for come back to Proleague.
On November 03 2011 22:29 LighT. wrote: Damn Aria.... My argument would be CJ_EffOrt. Why? It has been exactly one year since he has stopped participating in OSL/MSL, retiring after he beat Flash in an epic ro5. THis account has been active for approximately a year...HMM...
EffOrt he constantly been known for his ultra-aggression play and constant stream of units after units and putting opponents to submission. In BW this method has put the best of Terrans and the best of protoss completely down. This was seen off the bat with pool first play and his movement into a very quick roach timing attack and constantly trying to ram down HuKs defence at the natural. If you noted, there wasnt a single moment in the game were HuK was in the offensive. This my friend is the style of EffOrt.
During the battles, despite the forcefields he was able to manoeuvre his army in such a way such that forcefield had minimal effort however not to the extent where he knows methods so neglect the ffs fully (lack of experience)..
CJ EffOrt has been the ultimate macro zerg player. Once he gets his 4-5 bases hes practically unbeatable (his weakness has been his metagame), we've seen how he's able to max 200/200 without a macro hatch and not missing a beat.
On top of that...EffOrts been contemplating a return to the pro gaming scene....back with CJ....CJ has updated their computers...D:...
Maybe I'm just associating random facts and making up my own theory but assuming its a bw pro... Whether if its Calm, Modesty, Jaedong, Killer, ZerO etc... no one really reflects the type of gamestyle as reflected in the game as the gameplay of EffOrt..and granted it is him, I have my new #1 player until the REAL Final Boss, jumps onto the sc2 scene
I dont think so. Effort is back to broodwar, he got his Progammer licence some weeks ago and in a interview he said he was training BroodWar hard for come back to Proleague.
I agree with you effort said he miss the bw fans and the cheers he gets from the crowd . It's nice to see effort is back in broodwar.
On November 03 2011 21:56 zeehar wrote: what, will KT stop giving flash his salary because he starts playing a different game? eh... some of the logic here is just
Thats not the point. They will be giving him salary, but is it as much as it is now? What if his sponsors and whatnot decide that SC2 is not big enough to pay you that much despite your status (yet)?
I completely understand villageidiot's point here, but most of the BW pros would probably stay in Broodwar for a while longer just because of the salary, unless they would get paid as much when switching to SC2.
unless they sign completely new contracts with their existing teams when the teams switch to sc2, i seriously doubt their pay is going to be affected in any way.
i acknowledge that this is a step towards BW's death which is sad but its probably going to be a slow process, not roflol mass switch uninstall bw, because of industry sizes etc.
Much anticipation for the BW pros possible effects on sc2. I dont think theyre going to kill much anything immediately but their mechanics and training habits must pay off.
final impression is somewhat happy, that this will be a massive injection of genius and skill into a game, it will probably be a great improvement. whereas BW is so "perfected" that such improvements are hardly possible any more, not on the same level.
On November 04 2011 00:29 ULTRAmarine wrote: i acknowledge that this is a step towards BW's death which is sad but its probably going to be a slow process, not roflol mass switch uninstall bw, because of industry sizes etc.
Much anticipation for the BW pros possible effects on sc2. I dont think theyre going to kill much anything immediately but their mechanics and training habits must pay off.
final impression is somewhat happy, that this will be a massive injection of genius and skill into a game, it will probably be a great improvement. whereas BW is so "perfected" that such improvements are hardly possible any more, not on the same level.
On November 03 2011 21:29 Grumbels wrote: I think you all are overestimating how quickly you can become competitive. This Aria person, if he is a BW pro, won't become competitive for quite a long time. Perhaps he can get by on his mechanics in standard games, but if HuK were to do series play with him he could just fall back on a number of all-ins that might be solved by now, but that will be very potent against someone not familiar. I hope everyone remembers just how hard zerg can be if you're a new player, where you constantly die to various timings. Something similar happened when Mondragon switched and everyone was impressed by his inventive zerg play that was so similar to how it worked in Brood War, but he still lost to Cruncher because he just hadn't spent enough time with the race to be aware of the precise counter to Cruncher's strategy.
Yellow wasn't a bad BW player. When he started playing SC2 he was by far not the worst Brood War pro to have switched and look at how bad he was even after a month of practice? You definitely need more than a month, especially if you're a Brood War pro mostly good at executing things rather than innovating things. I'm not saying that's the case for all pros, but certainly for some. It just will take them some time to adjust and really work out their game enough so that their mechanical advantage can kick in. I give it around four months before they can even begin taking on players like MVP and Nestea.
Actually, YellOw barely even practised until the qualifiers were bearing down on him. And furthermore, even though I'm a YellOw fan, he certainly was among the worst BW players to switch over (which he didn't really do.. he just played some SC2 for a showmatch and a TV show). Even all the no-name semi-pros, failed pros and B-team players were better than him. He was a great player in his time and a great figurehead and personality, but he certainly wouldn't have been considered progamer-level at the end of his BW career if he wasn't already such a legend.
the main reason yellow didnt succeed at sc2 is because he obviously didnt want to play it, watching the qualifier thing you knew he wasnt going to get in unless sc2 really is a joke (luckily its not).
yellow was still a better player on ace, but he's pretty old now. i dont get why he even brought up yellow
Watch that huk vs aria replay it's a good watch, if he really is a pro and this is the direction the game is heading it can only be good for the spectators.
What was huk's response to that game? Did it feel like he was vsing someone on a higher level or kind of standard and people are blowing aria's performance out of proportion?
On November 04 2011 00:29 ULTRAmarine wrote: i acknowledge that this is a step towards BW's death which is sad but its probably going to be a slow process, not roflol mass switch uninstall bw, because of industry sizes etc.
Much anticipation for the BW pros possible effects on sc2. I dont think theyre going to kill much anything immediately but their mechanics and training habits must pay off.
final impression is somewhat happy, that this will be a massive injection of genius and skill into a game, it will probably be a great improvement. whereas BW is so "perfected" that such improvements are hardly possible any more, not on the same level.
From your perspective Bw has been figured out,dull and old and if that is the case Jangbi wouldn't have win the 2011 Jin Air Osl, the chills I have when i watch my friends did a proxy gate dt behind the terran base was crazy in last year wcg 2010 . Bw isn't going to die to me , It lives within my mind and soul, even if it does I will still fire up my fpvods I downloaded and drink to it saying hey old buddy it's me again .
Final impression that is nothing has been announced that the proleague will totally convert in to sc2 and I am happy with that .
On November 04 2011 00:29 ULTRAmarine wrote: i acknowledge that this is a step towards BW's death which is sad but its probably going to be a slow process, not roflol mass switch uninstall bw, because of industry sizes etc.
Much anticipation for the BW pros possible effects on sc2. I dont think theyre going to kill much anything immediately but their mechanics and training habits must pay off.
final impression is somewhat happy, that this will be a massive injection of genius and skill into a game, it will probably be a great improvement. whereas BW is so "perfected" that such improvements are hardly possible any more, not on the same level.
I love when real experts says their opinions.
Why the attitude? Do you think that BW has the same improvement potential as SC2? The idea is absurd and actually insults the BW pros.
On November 04 2011 00:29 ULTRAmarine wrote: i acknowledge that this is a step towards BW's death which is sad but its probably going to be a slow process, not roflol mass switch uninstall bw, because of industry sizes etc.
Much anticipation for the BW pros possible effects on sc2. I dont think theyre going to kill much anything immediately but their mechanics and training habits must pay off.
final impression is somewhat happy, that this will be a massive injection of genius and skill into a game, it will probably be a great improvement. whereas BW is so "perfected" that such improvements are hardly possible any more, not on the same level.
From your perspective Bw has been figured out,dull and old and if that is the case Jangbi wouldn't have win the 2011 Jin Air Osl, the chills I have when i watch my friends did a proxy gate dt behind the terran base was crazy in last year wcg 2010 . Bw isn't going to die to me , It lives within my mind and soul, even if it does I will still fire up my fpvods I downloaded and drink to it saying hey old buddy it's me again .
Final impression that is nothing has been announced that the proleague will totally convert in to sc2 and I am happy with that .
"figured out, dull and old" insinuated no such thing.
EPT
in broodwar.
