On November 02 2011 17:49 Jayson X wrote: Somehow I feel excited. Since I completely stepped back from both games and was always more into the Korean BW pro scene I do think this can be a good thing. If the whole scene considers to gradually take in SC2 and then eventually switch completely, SC2 would probably gain one of the most stable and professional environments. And if SC2 can attract audience, we have some heavyweight sponsors that I'm sure would like to invest themselves in something new.
Don't get me wrong I think BW is the superior game, but it is the players I watched over all these years I'm most interested in. Seeing our beasts we have in BW giving SC2 a shot is exciting. Then I believe, and yes this is also a very biased hope, many current SC2 top players will fall and meet their new masters.
Looking at the talent pool sc2 has right now I hope you are wrong man after all foreign scene finally have their own heroes and than to suddenly get killed by an over flow of broodwar pro's in to your game and dominated solely by korean like bw . Do you really want that to happen ?
If you are truly passionate for the game. U will want to see the best play possible. I don't get y u want to look down on foreigner scene as well. If they can't compete, is probably cause they never train hard enough. I do not believe Koreans are born better to play RTS game.
On November 02 2011 17:49 Jayson X wrote: Somehow I feel excited. Since I completely stepped back from both games and was always more into the Korean BW pro scene I do think this can be a good thing. If the whole scene considers to gradually take in SC2 and then eventually switch completely, SC2 would probably gain one of the most stable and professional environments. And if SC2 can attract audience, we have some heavyweight sponsors that I'm sure would like to invest themselves in something new.
Don't get me wrong I think BW is the superior game, but it is the players I watched over all these years I'm most interested in. Seeing our beasts we have in BW giving SC2 a shot is exciting. Then I believe, and yes this is also a very biased hope, many current SC2 top players will fall and meet their new masters.
I wouldn't call them new masters. More like the old rulers have come back from vacation and want their thrones back from the jesters of the court.
On November 02 2011 17:49 Jayson X wrote: Somehow I feel excited. Since I completely stepped back from both games and was always more into the Korean BW pro scene I do think this can be a good thing. If the whole scene considers to gradually take in SC2 and then eventually switch completely, SC2 would probably gain one of the most stable and professional environments. And if SC2 can attract audience, we have some heavyweight sponsors that I'm sure would like to invest themselves in something new.
Don't get me wrong I think BW is the superior game, but it is the players I watched over all these years I'm most interested in. Seeing our beasts we have in BW giving SC2 a shot is exciting. Then I believe, and yes this is also a very biased hope, many current SC2 top players will fall and meet their new masters.
Looking at the talent pool sc2 has right now I hope you are wrong man after all foreign scene finally have their own heroes and than to suddenly get killed by an over flow of broodwar pro's in to your game and dominated solely by korean like bw . Do you really want that to happen ?
The talent pool we have right now couldn't take a single game of Flash, JD, Bisu if they were all playing BW at their primes. Not including a July/Boxer/Nada/Yellow/Oov in that statement.
On November 02 2011 12:45 Sawamura wrote: I have yet to see any zergs in sc2 play Savior management style of play
I'm not attempting to be sarcastic or hate on Brood War in any way, but since I don't really understand Brood War past very basic stuff, could you please explain what "SaviOr management" is?
EDIT: typed 'please' twice
If you watch the fpvods he doesn't have high apm like many zerg pro's have currently , so he counters that with having great management , having great eco's , building units at each hatchery waiting for his enemies to make his moves . If you watch carefully in the fpvod (If you did ) . He knows he has the advantage and he has the ability to manage and flank his armies is what made savior the management zerg .
"Management style zerg requires much more finesse in its play. You have to defend very well. Zerg isn't naturally a good race for defense, which is what makes it so difficult. Also, multi-tasking is extremely important. In general, if you don't excel at everything, you can't do well using management style zerg. But if you can play management style zerg perfectly, then you can play with an aura of invincibility, and can make your opponents feel pressure from your mere presense."
I think Jaedong is sometimes regarded as the representant of the other great Zerg style, the aggressive Zerg (but I don't know how much he represents both styles).
Since management style zerg heavily relies on the lurker to block terrain and buy time, I am not sure how far it can be recreated in SC2.
On November 02 2011 17:49 Jayson X wrote: Somehow I feel excited. Since I completely stepped back from both games and was always more into the Korean BW pro scene I do think this can be a good thing. If the whole scene considers to gradually take in SC2 and then eventually switch completely, SC2 would probably gain one of the most stable and professional environments. And if SC2 can attract audience, we have some heavyweight sponsors that I'm sure would like to invest themselves in something new.
Don't get me wrong I think BW is the superior game, but it is the players I watched over all these years I'm most interested in. Seeing our beasts we have in BW giving SC2 a shot is exciting. Then I believe, and yes this is also a very biased hope, many current SC2 top players will fall and meet their new masters.
Looking at the talent pool sc2 has right now I hope you are wrong man after all foreign scene finally have their own heroes and than to suddenly get killed by an over flow of broodwar pro's in to your game and dominated solely by korean like bw . Do you really want that to happen ?
If you are truly passionate for the game. U will want to see the best play possible. I don't get y u want to look down on foreigner scene as well. If they can't compete, is probably cause they never train hard enough. I do not believe Koreans are born better to play RTS game.
Now, Don't you put words in to my statement , I am saying at the talent pool we have right now there's lot of potential for foreigners and for bw teams to suddenly released all their apm ,multi tasking madness on the fly on your game . Realistically do you still want to play in tournaments with that kind of trained professional ? .It's good I understand,but I hoped to see the foreign scene in sc2 to become much stronger than to be suddenly just killed off like these with bw teams.
Here's what Jaedong has to say about his opponent kuroa in wcg
"I sent 6 lings early on, and game just ended," says Jaedong . "The opponent played like the computer."
I'm not attempting to be sarcastic or hate on Brood War in any way, but since I don't really understand Brood War past very basic stuff, could you please explain what "SaviOr management" is?
EDIT: typed 'please' twice
If you watch the fpvods he doesn't have high apm like many zerg pro's have currently , so he counters that with having great management , having great eco's , building units at each hatchery waiting for his enemies to make his moves . If you watch carefully in the fpvod (If you did ) . He knows he has the advantage and he has the ability to manage and flank his armies is what made savior the management zerg .
"Management style zerg requires much more finesse in its play. You have to defend very well. Zerg isn't naturally a good race for defense, which is what makes it so difficult. Also, multi-tasking is extremely important. In general, if you don't excel at everything, you can't do well using management style zerg. But if you can play management style zerg perfectly, then you can play with an aura of invincibility, and can make your opponents feel pressure from your mere presense."
I think Jaedong is sometimes regarded as the representant of the other great Zerg style, the aggressive Zerg (but I don't know how much he represents both styles).
Since management style zerg heavily relies on the lurker to block terrain and buy time, I am not sure how far it can be recreated in SC2.
Jaedong is recognised for his mid game aggression while savior on the other hand is most likely a master of game sense and strategy .
Foreign scene can't rely solely on talent. If they won't train harder it is only natural that they will be decimated by BW progamers. And I don't see anything wrong with such situation. I hope some top players will be able to compete with Brood War beasts, but first of all we should wait and see if those korean pros can transfer their skills to SC2.
On November 02 2011 18:35 Deimos0 wrote: Foreign scene can't rely solely on talent. If they won't train harder it is only natural that they will be decimated by BW progamers. And I don't see anything wrong with such situation. I hope some top players will be able to compete with Brood War beasts, but first of all we should wait and see if those korean pros can transfer their skills to SC2.
lets not forget the game has changed alot from bw, it is much easier to macro and control armies now, so the gap between korean bw pro and a foreigner that doesn't train as much isn't so big anymore.
The talent pool we have right now couldn't take a single game of Flash, JD, Bisu if they were all playing BW at their primes. Not including a July/Boxer/Nada/Yellow/Oov in that statement.
I think MVP would disagree with you. But yeah that's probably the only guy .
On November 02 2011 18:35 Deimos0 wrote: Foreign scene can't rely solely on talent. If they won't train harder it is only natural that they will be decimated by BW progamers. And I don't see anything wrong with such situation. I hope some top players will be able to compete with Brood War beasts, but first of all we should wait and see if those korean pros can transfer their skills to SC2.
lets not forget the game has changed alot from bw, it is much easier to macro and control armies now, so the gap between korean bw pro and a foreigner that doesn't train as much isn't so big anymore.
if they have the extra APM and micro management they can do so much more, not just blink stalkers micro. For zerg: They can micro their units and at the same time do perfect injects. Terran: multiple drops while microing all at the same time. Protoss: hmmm I am not very sure what else can protoss use their extra APM for. Maybe if they go for phoenix build they can fully exploit the strength of it.
On November 02 2011 18:35 Deimos0 wrote: Foreign scene can't rely solely on talent. If they won't train harder it is only natural that they will be decimated by BW progamers. And I don't see anything wrong with such situation. I hope some top players will be able to compete with Brood War beasts, but first of all we should wait and see if those korean pros can transfer their skills to SC2.
lets not forget the game has changed alot from bw, it is much easier to macro and control armies now, so the gap between korean bw pro and a foreigner that doesn't train as much isn't so big anymore.
even gap between foreigners that train and not train is obvious, look at huk's performance for example.
On November 02 2011 18:35 Deimos0 wrote: Foreign scene can't rely solely on talent. If they won't train harder it is only natural that they will be decimated by BW progamers. And I don't see anything wrong with such situation. I hope some top players will be able to compete with Brood War beasts, but first of all we should wait and see if those korean pros can transfer their skills to SC2.
lets not forget the game has changed alot from bw, it is much easier to macro and control armies now, so the gap between korean bw pro and a foreigner that doesn't train as much isn't so big anymore.
if they have the extra APM and micro management they can do so much more, not just blink stalkers micro. For zerg: They can micro their units and at the same time do perfect injects. Terran: multiple drops while microing all at the same time. Protoss: hmmm I am not very sure what else can protoss use their extra APM for. Maybe if they go for phoenix build they can fully exploit the strength of it.
On November 02 2011 18:35 Deimos0 wrote: Foreign scene can't rely solely on talent. If they won't train harder it is only natural that they will be decimated by BW progamers. And I don't see anything wrong with such situation. I hope some top players will be able to compete with Brood War beasts, but first of all we should wait and see if those korean pros can transfer their skills to SC2.
lets not forget the game has changed alot from bw, it is much easier to macro and control armies now, so the gap between korean bw pro and a foreigner that doesn't train as much isn't so big anymore.
That's not true. To learn SC2 may be easier than BW, but if people practice more, the level of competition will raise no matter how easy the fundamental control of the game. The mechanics of contention will simply be more intricate than in BW, comparatively.
On November 02 2011 17:49 Jayson X wrote: Somehow I feel excited. Since I completely stepped back from both games and was always more into the Korean BW pro scene I do think this can be a good thing. If the whole scene considers to gradually take in SC2 and then eventually switch completely, SC2 would probably gain one of the most stable and professional environments. And if SC2 can attract audience, we have some heavyweight sponsors that I'm sure would like to invest themselves in something new.
Don't get me wrong I think BW is the superior game, but it is the players I watched over all these years I'm most interested in. Seeing our beasts we have in BW giving SC2 a shot is exciting. Then I believe, and yes this is also a very biased hope, many current SC2 top players will fall and meet their new masters.
Looking at the talent pool sc2 has right now I hope you are wrong man after all foreign scene finally have their own heroes and than to suddenly get killed by an over flow of broodwar pro's in to your game and dominated solely by korean like bw . Do you really want that to happen ?
Here's a game of Flash versus Infernal in last year's wcg , infernal was totally dissected and messed around like a toy in his hand . I think the video is really self explanatory to what happens when bw team totally convert to sc2 .
well as far as i remember infernal said he didnt even train that much, so he was out of shape, not saying he would win, but i guess thats not the best example
we ve seen foreigners winning vs koreans in earlier years, and sc2 doesnt give as much mechanical gap as bw, also given the statistical chance even top bw players would lose much more to foreigners in sc2 than they would in bw due to game design
On November 02 2011 18:35 Deimos0 wrote: Foreign scene can't rely solely on talent. If they won't train harder it is only natural that they will be decimated by BW progamers. And I don't see anything wrong with such situation. I hope some top players will be able to compete with Brood War beasts, but first of all we should wait and see if those korean pros can transfer their skills to SC2.
lets not forget the game has changed alot from bw, it is much easier to macro and control armies now, so the gap between korean bw pro and a foreigner that doesn't train as much isn't so big anymore.
I'm aware of that, but as people above stated - it might result in more amazing micro or macro play. I'm just very curious how players like JD or Bisu will do in SC2.
On November 02 2011 17:49 Jayson X wrote: Somehow I feel excited. Since I completely stepped back from both games and was always more into the Korean BW pro scene I do think this can be a good thing. If the whole scene considers to gradually take in SC2 and then eventually switch completely, SC2 would probably gain one of the most stable and professional environments. And if SC2 can attract audience, we have some heavyweight sponsors that I'm sure would like to invest themselves in something new.
Don't get me wrong I think BW is the superior game, but it is the players I watched over all these years I'm most interested in. Seeing our beasts we have in BW giving SC2 a shot is exciting. Then I believe, and yes this is also a very biased hope, many current SC2 top players will fall and meet their new masters.
Looking at the talent pool sc2 has right now I hope you are wrong man after all foreign scene finally have their own heroes and than to suddenly get killed by an over flow of broodwar pro's in to your game and dominated solely by korean like bw . Do you really want that to happen ?
Here's a game of Flash versus Infernal in last year's wcg , infernal was totally dissected and messed around like a toy in his hand . I think the video is really self explanatory to what happens when bw team totally convert to sc2 .
well as far as i remember infernal said he didnt even train that much, so he was out of shape, not saying he would win, but i guess thats not the best example
we ve seen foreigners winning vs koreans in earlier years, and sc2 doesnt give as much mechanical gap as bw, also given the statistical chance even top bw players would lose much more to foreigners in sc2 than they would in bw due to game design
You do realised in that game flash decide to play that dropship strategy because of infernal build order,Flash just exploited what is in front of him and he did it in a very convincing fashion and not the usual expo to 3 base and macro until 200/200 right ?
On November 02 2011 17:49 Jayson X wrote: Somehow I feel excited. Since I completely stepped back from both games and was always more into the Korean BW pro scene I do think this can be a good thing. If the whole scene considers to gradually take in SC2 and then eventually switch completely, SC2 would probably gain one of the most stable and professional environments. And if SC2 can attract audience, we have some heavyweight sponsors that I'm sure would like to invest themselves in something new.
Don't get me wrong I think BW is the superior game, but it is the players I watched over all these years I'm most interested in. Seeing our beasts we have in BW giving SC2 a shot is exciting. Then I believe, and yes this is also a very biased hope, many current SC2 top players will fall and meet their new masters.
Looking at the talent pool sc2 has right now I hope you are wrong man after all foreign scene finally have their own heroes and than to suddenly get killed by an over flow of broodwar pro's in to your game and dominated solely by korean like bw . Do you really want that to happen ?
Here's a game of Flash versus Infernal in last year's wcg , infernal was totally dissected and messed around like a toy in his hand . I think the video is really self explanatory to what happens when bw team totally convert to sc2 .
well as far as i remember infernal said he didnt even train that much, so he was out of shape, not saying he would win, but i guess thats not the best example
we ve seen foreigners winning vs koreans in earlier years, and sc2 doesnt give as much mechanical gap as bw, also given the statistical chance even top bw players would lose much more to foreigners in sc2 than they would in bw due to game design
You do realised in that game flash decide to play that dropship strategy because of infernal build order,Flash just exploited what is in front of him and he did it in a very convincing fashion and not the usual expo to 3 base and macro until 200/200 right ?
What does that matter at all? That flash is capable of abusing opponent holes in play? Wow yes he can.
My point still stands that its not the best example. As in sc2 that holes arent as obvious as in bw, and macro play is much more "fair" for foreigners.
So by simple statistical chance, foreigners will do much better.
On November 02 2011 17:15 pdd wrote: I don't get the fascination with Aria to be honest. The account's been around (and relatively active) since September last year and has never been higher than Diamond.
Uh... the owner of MeatyOwlLegs isn't Naniwa, but occasionally he uses it to get #1 EU.
On November 02 2011 18:35 Deimos0 wrote: Foreign scene can't rely solely on talent. If they won't train harder it is only natural that they will be decimated by BW progamers. And I don't see anything wrong with such situation. I hope some top players will be able to compete with Brood War beasts, but first of all we should wait and see if those korean pros can transfer their skills to SC2.
lets not forget the game has changed alot from bw, it is much easier to macro and control armies now, so the gap between korean bw pro and a foreigner that doesn't train as much isn't so big anymore.
The game is easier to learn doesn't mean you can be top tier without training. Does that make sense to you? Yeah SC2 is easier to macro and control but it's not like players have already reached the limit of the game. What if someone with far superior multitasking and micro ability takes on this game? He will just play it better, harrassing with mutas, doing multiple baneling drops, spreading overloads everywhere, keeping an eye on every corner of the map and without missing a single larva inject. He will control the marines better and make them look like AI. The game is easier comparing to BW but no human being could ever reach the limit of SC2, therefore more training makes a player better and better. Quite simple isn't it? A game with complexity and variability like SC2 has "infinitive" possibilities like chess. You can always improve on it.
EPT
.
