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On October 26 2011 11:58 KingRajesh wrote:
Beta stage is when these critiques need to happen.
If you don't like it, and are a pro, that's when you need to complain. No need to complain about things that are OBVIOUSLY works in progress and in the conceptualization phase right now.
They could cut the Replicant and Oracle tomorrow, and not tell us till Beta. But wait till then. Nobody wants to hear HOTS theorycraft and metagame bullshit for months and months and months.
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By the time it hits beta they're not going to remove the units but modify them which is an extremely important point.
Some things just don't work whatever way you cut it, and believe me some of these things need to be cut and burned into the fire.
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TT1. I'm on your side about the replicator. I don't like the fact that it blends the races, protoss should get their very own new unique unit. ( Could be a Bw unit, just new to SC2)
However i think its much to early to tell with the other points you've brought up.
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I think HotS looks fun and exciting with all the new units/abilities/possibilites being brought to the series, and there's no way I can really judge balance/feel/effectiveness of such until the game is released, especially when the game is still young in development and each unit is likely to be overhauled several times.
I also realize that SC2 is not SC1, and appreciate the developers taking risks to explore new types of gameplay to flesh out the Starcraft game, with the knowledge that if I don't really like it as much as BW, I can always go back to playing that.
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As much as I want to troll this thread, I'm sure TT1 knows more than me.
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I want to know more about the Replicator. What happens when it replicates a unit that has a timer like the mule or infested terran? Does it have infinite range, only requiring you to have vision of the unit? If thats the case then acquirement another races harvester would be a piece of cake.
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United Kingdom14464 Posts
I agree with the too many spell casters thing, there should be more units that have inherently cool attack mechanics, like the brood lord or baneling, in BW the lurker or Reaver etc rather than spells. However, I do feel like you are putting words in Blizzard's mouth. There are some huge assumptions in there, many of which are not justified.
And yes. The replicant is stupid and should be burnt at the stake.
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Lol so what happens when bliz has to trash all the new additions to the game? Expansion delayed a year? ^^ looking at the new hots stuff got me so angry lolol
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I agree with the point that i would like the game to be about the straight up units, while having like 2 or 3 big spells that are used (EMP, Irradiate for terran, dark swarm and plague for zerg, storm, Stasis, Recall for protoss)
Its starting to look like SC2 is a battle of caster units while using everything else as meat shields. The dance between Ghost<->Templar dictates the battle, for example, where in BW the Science Vessel<->(Arbiter/Defiler) would play important (but not vital) roles in the battles.
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Perhaps wait for at least a beta of the game to talk about it? I'm a little confused why so many major shows and people in the community are even bringing up the units from Blizzcon, when we know that by the time HoTS ships, none of these units or mechanics will be the same as the Blizzcon reveal.
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On October 26 2011 11:52 Jayrod wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2011 11:49 -orb- wrote:
My number one pet peeve with people responding to threads and arguments like this are people that say wait until the game is out to see.
Yes, it's hard to judge before we can play the game, but that's what everyone said about the biggest problems people had with stuff in WoL. Then all the things some people complained about (but others said wait until the game is out) were too ingrained in the balance and design of the game to be removed at that stage. We have to weed out this terrible bullshit before it gets to beta stage or it will usually be too late.
So please, those of you that snap-respond to every argument about the new units with "wait until you can actually play it to see," think about what you're saying. If no one considered the implications of new units and instead just sat around waiting for beta to come out, we'd end up with a terrible game (as we can see based on the decisions blizzard makes when not guided by the community) Bumping this because of the 5 idiots that posted his pet-peeve afterwards
TT1 is the idiot if he thinks the replicator is only to beat one build. The sc2 community has to get their thinking caps on and try to understand the uses of the unit, it wouldn't even be that good against a 1-1-1 would it? I'm only posting what i did because it seems like people don't have the ability to understand what uses all of these units have. Try to understand and actually think about if before you talk about how bad any unit is.
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On October 26 2011 12:02 R0YAL wrote:
I want to know more about the Replicator. What happens when it replicates a unit that has a timer like the mule or infested terran? Does it have infinite range, only requiring you to have vision of the unit? If thats the case then acquirement another races harvester would be a piece of cake.
It has infinate range. No clue about timed units, buy why would you want a 200/200 infested terran?
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On October 26 2011 11:45 TT1 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2011 11:43 Silidons wrote:
i don't care if the replicant is OP as shit. it's a fuckign stupid ass design and does not belong in the starcraft universe. i will NOT use it under ANY circumstances. just like i am slowly doing this with the colossus. fucking retarded units that i don't enjoy using whatsoever. exactly, im not arguing whether or not its OP or UP.. its function as a unit does not belong in SC
Well said. I think a lot of people are missing the point of your OP.
Having a unit like the replicant is ridiculous game design, barely trumping the dark archon's mind control due to its inevitable accessibility in HoTS.
Rebalancing the game's gonna be a nightmare as well with a lot of the new spellcasters and their abilities. GL to whatever tournament is the first to adopt HoTS.
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Agree on most of your points. The replicant just seems so gimmicky and really difficult to balance.
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Explain me guys, what is a unit that "belong in a starcraft universe" ? Seems like the only answer coming from TL is "a unit that was in BW".
While I am concerned about a few design choices for HotS, I am just sad to see the constant stream of negativity and BW nostalgia float around every thread that concern the expansion. You are not game designers, don't pretend like you know better than Blizzard how to design a game. I am not saying it should be critic-proof, but this is something that requires patience, metagaming developpement before concluding it is complete shit.
I remember when Sc:BW was announced (yes I remember that day), I tought it was fucking lame to have flying units that could only attack other flying units, and one was introduced for each race. 2 of them stayed quite underused, but then one of them become iconic among the years. It was not even a conscious decision from blizzard to make it so cool, it just developped that way.
tl;dr: people judge too quick, it's good to give feedback but saying "it's heading in the wrong direction" is just plain premature.
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too soon to speculate, can't wait for battlehellions and the "warhounds" or w/e they're called.
mech coming tvp, fuck ye
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On October 26 2011 12:03 Papulatus wrote:
Perhaps wait for at least a beta of the game to talk about it? I'm a little confused why so many major shows and people in the community are even bringing up the units from Blizzcon, when we know that by the time HoTS ships, none of these units or mechanics will be the same as the Blizzcon reveal.
Damn right. I hate people complaining before testing it.
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Can't blame Blizzard, I am sure there will be more losses from it being too classic and challenging than from it being too simple and spell-oriented. Blizzard did not only have eSports in mind as they made this, as we all hoped for them to, but as a large company they need to worry about the profits as well.
We do not really know how good Arc Shield is now, wasting a Chronoboost can delay a timing attack, research, Probes, etc. Sure it may save you in the early stages of Mutalisk Harass, but that is about it.
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I had exactly the same sort of feeling, but not about the units. The thing that bothered me was the recall ability on the nexus. I really, really like that there are no town portal scrolls in SC2. Army positioning and poking and harass are what I really like about this game. If you can instantly get back and defend, it's just about whose army is better.
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On October 26 2011 11:49 -orb- wrote:
My number one pet peeve with people responding to threads and arguments like this are people that say wait until the game is out to see.
Yes, it's hard to judge before we can play the game, but that's what everyone said about the biggest problems people had with stuff in WoL. Then all the things some people complained about (but others said wait until the game is out) were too ingrained in the balance and design of the game to be removed at that stage. We have to weed out this terrible bullshit before it gets to beta stage or it will usually be too late.
So please, those of you that snap-respond to every argument about the new units with "wait until you can actually play it to see," think about what you're saying. If no one considered the implications of new units and instead just sat around waiting for beta to come out, we'd end up with a terrible game (as we can see based on the decisions blizzard makes when not guided by the community)
I completely agree with this. Everyone wanting LAN support can watch that interview with Dustin Browder and see that his reasoning for no LAN is that it is too far in to do anything about it. I don't want this to happen with HoTS as well where units are too ingrained into the balance that nothing can be done.
I feel that the game development should be guided more by the pro community as a whole, and there should be less of the 'one of this unit' syndrome. The Thor isn't meeting its quota so they create the warhound. So why keep the thor in the game at all? It's specifically mentioned it's for 1-a newbies, (me being one of them), but why when trying to become a better player would I want to use it? :/ Less 'cool' units and more units that actually have a place and purpose in the game.
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opinion Noted. Mines similar X )
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EPT
