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On November 22 2011 11:17 terranghost wrote:
It seems kind of odd people saying that is bad that the replicant was added just for the 111. While I do not like the unit in general wasn't the corsair added just because of the mutalisk back in broodwar. When BW came out I don't think mech was popular yet so I don't think they added it for the disruption web on mech I could be totally wrong but the situation seems kind of similar. And I can already think of other uses for it so it could be useful beyond the 111. Nothing is finalized I wouldn't start losing sleep over it yet. Remember BW is still out there for those who don't like the way SC2 goes no one will judge you if you switch in the end it all comes down to which game do I have more fun playing (and for the pros I guess which game can I make more money with)
The issue is more that the Replicant is an unbalanceable unit and a boring design. It's either going to be way too cheap and will make Protoss into the hybrid race or way too expensive and never made, ever. You can say there might be a "balance", but what will end up happening then is that it'll be too expensive early on and too cheap later on. Even more, it doesn't actually add anything to the game. It just makes it more homogeneous by giving Protoss the units of the other races. Why watch a TvP when you can watch a TvPT? Blizzard should figure out what makes the 1-1-1 so ridiculously strong, and then change the matchup to make that no longer be an issue. Two possible solutions off the top of my head: allow Protoss to get Templar up earlier to Feedback Banshees and Storm Marines, or do something serious to Marines and Banshees to bring them back down to earth. Tanks are not the biggest issue from what I see, and probably deserve to be stronger, if anything. Their purpose seems to be to allow the Terran army to damage Protoss buildings from afar and to circumvent Forcefields.
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why cant they just make units take up more space? they dont have to make pathfinding worse by doing that and that would mean ranged dps would be less in large balls which means it would make more sence in spreading out your army.
my complaints about WoL units
marauder is just a boring unit and does not feel terran at all they should cut it
baneling is nowhere near as epic as lurker
colossus is THE most boring noskill unit ever, its an siege unit with no deploy time or slowmoving or anything.
banshees and voidrays feels like you build the unit to annoy or hope he lacks antiair or detection and take a cheap win
corruptor is just a shitty unit
take these out and replace them with something cool
also i think its lame siegetanks do only 35 dmg per shot to zealots, should be changed.. zealots with speed, colossus, phoenix is enough to counter siegetanks, low dmg per shot to fast hugehealth tier 1 unit makes siegetanks a joke TvP make it BW style.
Terran army without tanks doesnt feel terran imo
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also why does marauder have conc shell? is there really any reason for it? I dont think anyone has ever thought it was a cool thing in the game..
just remove marauder and up the tank damage to zealots plox
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On November 22 2011 13:55 Acritter wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2011 11:17 terranghost wrote:
It seems kind of odd people saying that is bad that the replicant was added just for the 111. While I do not like the unit in general wasn't the corsair added just because of the mutalisk back in broodwar. When BW came out I don't think mech was popular yet so I don't think they added it for the disruption web on mech I could be totally wrong but the situation seems kind of similar. And I can already think of other uses for it so it could be useful beyond the 111. Nothing is finalized I wouldn't start losing sleep over it yet. Remember BW is still out there for those who don't like the way SC2 goes no one will judge you if you switch in the end it all comes down to which game do I have more fun playing (and for the pros I guess which game can I make more money with) The issue is more that the Replicant is an unbalanceable unit and a boring design. It's either going to be way too cheap and will make Protoss into the hybrid race or way too expensive and never made, ever. You can say there might be a "balance", but what will end up happening then is that it'll be too expensive early on and too cheap later on. Even more, it doesn't actually add anything to the game. It just makes it more homogeneous by giving Protoss the units of the other races. Why watch a TvP when you can watch a TvPT? Blizzard should figure out what makes the 1-1-1 so ridiculously strong, and then change the matchup to make that no longer be an issue. Two possible solutions off the top of my head: allow Protoss to get Templar up earlier to Feedback Banshees and Storm Marines, or do something serious to Marines and Banshees to bring them back down to earth. Tanks are not the biggest issue from what I see, and probably deserve to be stronger, if anything. Their purpose seems to be to allow the Terran army to damage Protoss buildings from afar and to circumvent Forcefields.
I don't disagree that it is a boring design and I wish they would scrap the unit. But an unit being introduced to deal with just a certain unit or build is not unprecedented. Also it will be a hard unit to balance if they decide to leave the unit in but it is not unbalancable by any means.
As for the issue with 111 I can already tell you that or at the very least my opinion as to why it is so successful. The 111 is alot of marines as meatshields plus a combination of factory units (mainly tanks) and a few starport units (either banshees and/or ravens). In BW the only factory unit you could not build shortly after the factory was done was the goliath (which needed an armory) The tank required a machineshop but that built fairly quickly and was needed anyway for upgrades. The starport could produce both the dropship and the wraith effectively right away as the control tower built fast but the science vessel, valkrie and BC could not.
Fast forward to SC2 111 build. The factory still operates the same hellions and tanks can be built right away the thors need an armory. If you are going for fast tanks it is risky to build the techlab for the factory in advance because you won't have enough marines to defend an early attack. However the starport can have the tech lab already build which speeds things along 25sec. (not much but it helps) but the main problem is upon reaching starport the dropship, viking, banshee, and raven are instantly available. Only the BC is not. The easiest solution IMO would be to make either the raven or banshee require an armory like they did to the valkrie. Of course this would have side effects but it would be something interesting to look at in HOTS as a potential answer.
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New patches prove this even more. Can't seem to understand why Blizzard wants to take out the competitive aspect of Starcraft 2 and just make it so everyone can play at a high level regardless of the amount of time put in.
User was temp banned for this post.
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I feel Blizzard are designing the game around spectatorship rather than gameplay. This isn't necessarily a bad thing.
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On February 13 2012 04:02 Marddox wrote:
I feel Blizzard are designing the game around spectatorship rather than gameplay. This isn't necessarily a bad thing.
In fact it guarantees them of having a long running healthy and global E-Sports model, something at which Brood War failed.
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On February 13 2012 04:09 Wroshe wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2012 04:02 Marddox wrote:
I feel Blizzard are designing the game around spectatorship rather than gameplay. This isn't necessarily a bad thing. In fact it guarantees them of having a long running healthy and global E-Sports model, something at which Brood War failed.
Oh dear. Also SC2 is more boring to was than BW in my opinion. 
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On February 13 2012 04:09 Wroshe wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2012 04:02 Marddox wrote:
I feel Blizzard are designing the game around spectatorship rather than gameplay. This isn't necessarily a bad thing. In fact it guarantees them of having a long running healthy and global E-Sports model, something at which Brood War failed.
The Brood War jab isn't necessary especially when it isn't correct.
Brood War is a popular spectator game and it isn't because of shiny units, it's because of the high level of skill involved with practically any game and any professional player.
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SC2 certainly is very successful right now in the foreign scene, but to say that BW wasn't just because it wasn't easy to spectate is obviously incorrect. Without BWs success SC2 would not have been so easy to pick up for esports organizations. And it is that success right now that some people should be looking at and saying "hm, I may not agree with the way the game is different from BW; but it certainly seems to bring in the money, which is a good thing".
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global is the key word in his statement
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On February 13 2012 04:17 robih wrote:
global is the key word in his statement
Indeed. Even though BW became insanely big in Korea (and to this day still is, many years after it's release) it didn't become as big outside of Korea.
The money that SC2 attracts made it possible for a lot of foreigners to go pro. Now who gets the scene that money? The viewers do, if viewer counts would be at the same level as they were for Brood War the sponsors wouldn't throw these amounts of money at it.
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On February 13 2012 04:21 Wroshe wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2012 04:17 robih wrote:
global is the key word in his statement Indeed. Even though BW became insanely big in Korea (and to this day still is, many years after it's release) it didn't become as big outside of Korea. The money that SC2 attracts made it possible for a lot of foreigners to go pro. Now who gets the scene that money? The viewers do, if viewer counts would be at the same level as they were for Brood War the sponsors wouldn't throw these amounts of money at it.
yeah. millions viewing on stream for the OSL Finals.
i wouldn't want to sponsor that if i had a product to advertise.
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On February 13 2012 04:09 Wroshe wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2012 04:02 Marddox wrote:
I feel Blizzard are designing the game around spectatorship rather than gameplay. This isn't necessarily a bad thing. In fact it guarantees them of having a long running healthy and global E-Sports model, something at which Brood War failed.
what a bunch of bull..
BW was and STILL is popular on a global scale
there were thousands of LAN's, tournaments and all this stuff in BW, and it was GLOBAL  its just the TIME what makes the difference. BW was popular when Esports was still growing, in fact BW helped in that growth. Insanely alot. SC2 is popular now, when esports (computer games in general) is a pretty much established entertainment branch in many countries, thus alot more money put in and more GLOBAL the competition.
SC2 has the potential of course. Its a good game. Its just that Blizzard may destroy alot of this potential by - in example - releasing 2 add ons, and new units, gameplay and everything. In fact, the real SC2 esport scene is going to grow after the release of The Legacy of The Void.
I will spectate the growth of this game, and Im going to try and support it
for esports ! 
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To tell you the truth, BW never tried to become global eSports, in fact I doubt Blizzard really intended BW to become an eSports game.
It just happened to be because BW became the perfect game, and the exponential growth was natural.
SC2 is trying hard to be what BW is, and it is failing at many points.
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I like both games and I like the direction in which SC2 is heading because its an own direction and does not try to copy BW. So both games will be quite unique in thier own fashion.
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On February 13 2012 04:31 fabiano wrote:
To tell you the truth, BW never tried to become global eSports, in fact I doubt Blizzard really intended BW to become an eSports game.
It just happened to be because BW became the perfect game, and the exponential growth was natural.
SC2 is trying hard to be what BW is, and it is failing at many points.
It is also succeeding in many points as well.
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From a gameplay point of view it is indeed doing a lot of things different. Those have resulted in making the game easier to play and whether you feel that makes the game bad or not is entirely your decision to make.
What can safely be said though is that they have brought in a very big new crowd which has allowed SC2 to become a lot bigger then BW was outside of Korea. Next weekend for example we have two tournaments that combined give out 46 thousand dollars in prizes (MLG and Assembly), this weekend we had IEM which gave away 21k.
As to SC2 being so big because of Brood War I'm not entirely sure whether I should agree or not. While in Korea you can definatly make such a claim I don't feel that that applies to the foreign scene.
The biggest tournaments (MLG, Dreamhack, Assembly, IEM) didn't run Brood War tournaments the last few years if I remember correctly and are now running great SC2 events. Player wise a lot of good players came from Brood War but the European scene I believe has more players that have a high level WC3 background then a BW one.
Of course BW has made it a lot easier for SC2 to become so big but I don't think you can reasonably make a claim that it wouldn't have become big without it.
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On February 13 2012 04:41 blade55555 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2012 04:31 fabiano wrote:
To tell you the truth, BW never tried to become global eSports, in fact I doubt Blizzard really intended BW to become an eSports game.
It just happened to be because BW became the perfect game, and the exponential growth was natural.
SC2 is trying hard to be what BW is, and it is failing at many points. It is also succeeding in many points as well.
Shh, don't ruin a good whining party with facts.
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EPT
