EPTSC2 is heading in the wrong direction - Page 50
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Janders
Mexico222 Posts
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Nizzy
United States839 Posts
On November 21 2011 11:54 FuRRyChoBo wrote: Agreed 99% besides the pathing idea. I think the units move too well, if that's possible...because of how well they move and how much they clump together, splash damage does way too much. One of the biggest problems I personally have with SC2 (and why I find myself constantly going to back to BW) is that there's just WAY too much splash/AoE damage in the game as a whole. Again, with clumping the units, one baneling can easily take out a handful of zerglings or marines without the need for any sort of actual control. Every Terran factory unit does an obscene amount of splash damage, and fungals negating micro is simply laughable in my opinion (especially given the combination of fungal+banelings or brood lords). I realize it's a young game and there will be more units added/changed/removed in the expansions, but as of right now the game is extremely tilting to play because of the lack of control needed on the whole. Yeah the point I was trying to make though is that when you have units clumped up perfectly together in a mass control group and give 1 command to another location the pathing should technically be perfect because they're all getting the command at the same time (assuming all the unit speeds are the same like mass mm ball). I always think fungal is a joke too. At least with storm you can micro out of it. They should just make fungal like a 50-60% slow, even keep the damage amount but the fact that you can't move is dumb. | ||
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nt-rAven
Canada405 Posts
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muffican
1 Post
If you watched the MLG this weekend, I think you would have noticed one select player, Naniwa, tear apart top zergs and terrans alike with his standard FFE, early zealot pressure into deathball play... Every game, pretty much the same thing. Just refine your mechanics and learn to play like a robot and you won't even need to improvise to win anymore... that is, until you meet someone who won't overanalyze your god-awful play. I agree though, SC2 is definitely IN the wrong direction. To naniwa, I made these for you... http://www.quickmeme.com/meme/35btab/ http://www.quickmeme.com/meme/35bt8o/ All terrans should 1-1-1 every game of every tournament vs toss to force Blizz to revamp this game entirely. User was banned for this post. | ||
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IPA
United States3206 Posts
On November 21 2011 12:31 muffican wrote: Funny...protoss QQ on a game that isn't even out yet... If you watched the MLG this weekend, I think you would have noticed one select player, Naniwa, tear apart top zergs and terrans alike with his standard FFE, early zealot pressure into deathball play... Every game, pretty much the same thing. Just refine your mechanics and learn to play like a robot and you won't even need to improvise to win anymore... that is, until you meet someone who won't overanalyze your god-awful play. I agree though, SC2 is definitely IN the wrong direction. To naniwa, I made these for you... http://www.quickmeme.com/meme/35btab/ http://www.quickmeme.com/meme/35bt8o/ All terrans should 1-1-1 every game of every tournament vs toss to force Blizz to revamp this game entirely. If you're going to troll, please try harder or make it funny or something. This was just bad. | ||
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1Eris1
United States5797 Posts
On November 21 2011 12:31 muffican wrote: Funny...protoss QQ on a game that isn't even out yet... If you watched the MLG this weekend, I think you would have noticed one select player, Naniwa, tear apart top zergs and terrans alike with his standard FFE, early zealot pressure into deathball play... Every game, pretty much the same thing. Just refine your mechanics and learn to play like a robot and you won't even need to improvise to win anymore... that is, until you meet someone who won't overanalyze your god-awful play. I agree though, SC2 is definitely IN the wrong direction. To naniwa, I made these for you... http://www.quickmeme.com/meme/35btab/ http://www.quickmeme.com/meme/35bt8o/ All terrans should 1-1-1 every game of every tournament vs toss to force Blizz to revamp this game entirely. The hell? This has nothing to do with Protoss balance right now, it's about the general flow of the fucking game and the direction it's headed in. | ||
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timed
Canada40 Posts
On November 21 2011 12:31 muffican wrote: Funny...protoss QQ on a game that isn't even out yet... He's not complaining about the balance, but the change in mechanics. | ||
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Ruscour
5233 Posts
On November 21 2011 12:31 muffican wrote: Funny...protoss QQ on a game that isn't even out yet... If you watched the MLG this weekend, I think you would have noticed one select player, Naniwa, tear apart top zergs and terrans alike with his standard FFE, early zealot pressure into deathball play... Every game, pretty much the same thing. Just refine your mechanics and learn to play like a robot and you won't even need to improvise to win anymore... that is, until you meet someone who won't overanalyze your god-awful play. I agree though, SC2 is definitely IN the wrong direction. To naniwa, I made these for you... http://www.quickmeme.com/meme/35btab/ http://www.quickmeme.com/meme/35bt8o/ All terrans should 1-1-1 every game of every tournament vs toss to force Blizz to revamp this game entirely. Look at your address bar. This is TeamLiquid.net, not reddit.com/r/starcraft - hope you find your way home safely. | ||
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TT1
Canada9987 Posts
On November 21 2011 07:12 Bill Murray wrote: TT1, what are your thoughts on micro in SC2 vs SC1? - I'd like to note I've seen you win off of a 4 probe rush opening vs an opponent who would probably beat me Do you feel that the way units clump in SC2 in and of itself lend to them having to make "cute" units for protoss to balance away from protoss players who simply 1a? Do you feel the imperfection of the SC1 A.I.ended up being a good thing for micro? well yea its no secret, everyone knows that the unit pathing is one of the main issues in sc2(makes the game much easier to master, unlike sc1 where the simple act of moving ur units correctly required skill and practice) but blizzard has already stated that they wernt going to do anything about it honestly at this point i think were in too deep to do anything about the unit pathing but boy would it be fun if blizzard ever decided to remove mbs or autocast : D | ||
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jinixxx123
543 Posts
On November 21 2011 12:46 TT1 wrote: well yea its no secret, everyone knows that unit pathing is one of the main issues in sc2(makes the game much easier to master, unlike sc1 where the simple act of moving ur units correctly required skill and practice) but blizzard has already stated that they wernt going to do anything about it honestly at this point i think were in too deep to do anything about the unit pathing but boy would it be fun if blizzard ever decided to remove mbs or autocast : D so you can loose faster to koreans ? ever thought for once that a game is only as hard as it can be threw the opponents you face off against instead of how hard the game is to play, Like honestly until somebody comes here and says they are playing sc2 100% perfectly,none of what you say has any merit because starcraft 2 is still a very very hard game. Saying this game is basically EZ mode because it does not include those broodwar features is stupid. If its EZ for you, its EZ for your opponent also, much like mvp owning you will be EZ for him. With those redundant features removed, you put that extra potential amount of skill into other areas that have not been removed, Such as overall strategys/decision making/multitasking harass ETC ETC ETC | ||
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Nizzy
United States839 Posts
On November 21 2011 12:46 TT1 wrote: well yea its no secret, everyone knows that unit pathing is one of the main issues in sc2(makes the game much easier to master, unlike sc1 where the simple act of moving ur units correctly required skill and practice) but blizzard has already stated that they wernt going to do anything about it honestly at this point i think were in too deep to do anything about the unit pathing but boy would it be fun if blizzard ever decided to remove mbs or autocast : D I think a large part of it, is the mass-multi selection of units. BW was 12, now in SC2 you can hotkey 200/200 armies at 1. What do you think about that? | ||
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Spicy_Curry
United States10573 Posts
On November 21 2011 12:46 TT1 wrote: well yea its no secret, everyone knows that unit pathing is one of the main issues in sc2(makes the game much easier to master, unlike sc1 where the simple act of moving ur units correctly required skill and practice) but blizzard has already stated that they wernt going to do anything about it honestly at this point i think were in too deep to do anything about the unit pathing but boy would it be fun if blizzard ever decided to remove mbs or autocast : D Its almost like you are close to the skill ceiling. Non of us mortal men have even seen this ceiling. Seriously though, this game being easier actually makes your life easier since you aren't a top tier player. It is much easier for you to take games off people who are at a higher level than you. I would not be complaining about that. I would shut up and keep quiet. Also whine about a beta is sad coming from a professional player since they should know more than anyone else that shit changes. | ||
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TT1
Canada9987 Posts
On November 21 2011 12:53 jinixxx123 wrote: so you can loose faster to koreans ? ever thought for once that a game is only as hard as it can be threw the opponents you face off against instead of how hard the game is to play, Like honestly until somebody comes here and says they are playing sc2 100% perfectly, saying this game is basically EZ mode because it does not include those broodwar features is stupid. If its EZ for you, its EZ for your opponent also, much like mvp owning you will be EZ for him. its far from being easy and i didnt say that, what i ment was that it would widen the gap between players which would make for much less variance within the game(obv because of the added mechanic, im not saying that they should specifically implement those changes but adding game mechanics along those lines would be a positive step forward) | ||
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Purupururin
United States14 Posts
The gap between a great player and the worlds bests shrunk quite a bit in WoL. (Just think back to the old scene) I'm worried down the road the good player isn't going to be too far behind a great one. | ||
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TT1
Canada9987 Posts
On November 21 2011 13:05 Purupururin wrote: Yeah I agree. The gap between a great player and the worlds bests shrunk quite a bit in WoL. (Just think back to the old scene) I'm worried down the road the good player isn't going to be too far behind a great one. weve already reached that point :-), dont get me wrong i love watching foreigners own koreans but who says we wernt capable of doing that in sc1? if we were given the same practice environment as them who knows wat we could have accomplished | ||
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MagmaRam
United States395 Posts
On November 21 2011 12:40 Ruscour wrote: Look at your address bar. This is TeamLiquid.net, not reddit.com/r/starcraft - hope you find your way home safely. He'd get downvoted over at r/starcraft. I believe what he wants is us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum | ||
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Bippzy
United States1466 Posts
On November 21 2011 06:59 sluggaslamoo wrote: BW-elitist: A person who has played a decent amount both BW and SC2 and can apply a well grounded perspective as to how SC2 can be improved in X area, citing an example of BW feature Y.  I saw TT1's response to this, but I have to say. Whether or not his post makes a difference to the game design, its not going to make Protoss better or worse and can only be good for the game. We need more units that fit within the game. This applies to all races, there are plenty of units that I believe do not belong to a particular race, and thus make that race boring in particular aspects, or the lines between the races are completely blurred. It actually negatively affects competitions, nowadays you don't look at Zerg players as really uber-aggressive, micro-oriented players (Jaedong, Hydra, and Effort are all scary looking people when they play Nestea seems like a freaking teddy bear in comparison). You don't look at Terran (Flash) and instantly think "omg what a turtle noob" either. Which takes a lot of character out of the players.For example, the Roach is just a boring version of the Hydra. Atleast Hydras had a dynamic of being the perfect all rounder unit, while still retaining the typical zerg weakness of low HP and massed in high numbers. Roach is kinda the same, only that it can't shoot air, doesn't have the same defensive weakness, and they are 2 supply thus you can't make many of them. This transcends to the type of players you get playing zerg as well. Zerg is no longer scary anymore, and neither are the players. You've been watching the wrong people play. Mvp said in his recent ask me anything that he thinks the best players are huk, idra, and thorzain, because they are creative. He also was asked about mech and said that he thinks in the future mech will be unviable. And, he criticized his own play for being too conservation. Not all terrans, zergs or protoss just turtle a move. Terrans have their cool early aggression, followed by drops followed by sieges with contains etc. terrans who turtle really don't win unless in tvt, but im positive that that isn't a guranteed win, look at mvp vs clide in pool play. Zergs have Plenty of mass ling play that is hyper aggressive. Also, i know you cite nestea's play but look at mlg providence i really dont think nestea's way is the right way. Zvz's at mlg providence were micro fests and so was the finals. It was all sexy highoctane swarm. as to the actual op: Sc2 isn't headed in the wrong direction. Espiecially because you are arguing from a unit design perspective, and i think every new unit is cool. Maybe if you tried to say that aren't giving toss more options, as you kinda did, i cud agree with you. They appear to be giving terrans more unit comps, making zerg armies scary.......and giving toss.....eco harass nonviolently, mass muta control i guess, and a replicant which cud be cool and cud be what keeps protoss balanced with the scary as fuck other races. | ||
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Alzadar
Canada5009 Posts
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jinixxx123
543 Posts
On November 21 2011 13:09 TT1 wrote: weve already reached that point :-), dont get me wrong i love watching foreigners own koreans but who says we wernt capable of doing that in sc1? if we were given the same practice environment as them who knows wat we could have accomplished this comment pretty much contradicts itself . First you say we have reached that point where you like watching the top level koreans get owned by some foreigners. Then on the same token you think foreigners will have a chance in starcraft 1 based on what facts???? you just said you "we have reached that point" , as if a foreigner beating a korean is just wrong. So you are willing to believe we will stand a chance in sc1 because of the sc2 success of the foreign players thus proving that sc2 is indeed a very skillful game which leaves you without an argument. | ||
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empty.bottle
685 Posts
On November 21 2011 13:23 Alzadar wrote: Is there any evidence at all that it is harder to differentiate yourself in StarCraft 2? Compare the winrates of Flash or Jaedong over a year period with those of top SC2 players, and you'll see that they're pretty much the same, and even have similar sample sizes. i could play sc2 at a decent level, and find myself winning against low tier pro players. d+ iccup user. < low d+. my 2 cents. | ||
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