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[D]Are mutalisks overpowered in WOL?? - Page 17

Forum Index > SC2 General
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Moldwood
Profile Joined April 2011
United States280 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-25 19:38:53
October 25 2011 19:37 GMT
#321
In my (protoss) opinion, mass muta can be dealt with using archons / blink stalk / phoenix in the mid game and later, but muta timing pushes in the EARLY midgame are ridiculously strong. borderline muta rushes on large maps make me want to kill myself sometimes. And the fact of the matter is -- a FLEET BEACON-tier Tempest is NOT going to resolve ANY of the problems that i have with mutas. Just my personal thoughts.

My terran opinion? stop bitching ^ ^ thors are sort of inadequate as far as defending your base but...... Mass repair on turrets and stim marines. do it.
"You drone I void ray I win" --oGsMC
Dommk
Profile Joined May 2010
Australia4865 Posts
October 25 2011 19:46 GMT
#322
I think the Viper was the tipping point for Blizzard.

In WOL you can forge a response of an assortment of units, the Protoss still lacked something like the Thor, which was is an obvious choice if you see a Zerg o muta.

I bet they could easily add ways of dealing with the Viper to other units but they probably just felt it was getting a little too convoluted and decided to just take the opportunity to "fix the problem" from a design standpoint .
Honeybadger
Profile Joined August 2010
United States821 Posts
October 25 2011 19:48 GMT
#323
On October 26 2011 04:37 Moldwood wrote:

My terran opinion? stop bitching ^ ^ thors are sort of inadequate as far as defending your base but...... Mass repair on turrets and stim marines. do it.


Yeah, I like having my turrets die instantly if I don't get to them in time, and even when I do, the glaive wurm bounce kills 25 scv's AND the turret.
"I like to tape my thumbs to my hands to see what it would be like to be a dinosaur."
Thug[ro]
Profile Joined October 2005
Romania340 Posts
October 25 2011 19:49 GMT
#324
Mutalisks NO! Turrets YES!
dae
Profile Joined June 2010
Canada1600 Posts
October 25 2011 19:51 GMT
#325
My opinion on the TvZ mutas is that blizzard wants to move terran away from relying 100% on marines. They are looking to make a factory only army viable without bio support. Currently only thors vs muta's does not work with proper magic boxing. Even terrans going mech need marines to deal with mass muta atm.

PvZ - Mass muta is really really easy to play vs the effort to counter it. It is very very easy to exploit any mistakes toss makes in order to just win the game, while massing spines to be safe from counters. This is just my opinion on it.
Honeybadger
Profile Joined August 2010
United States821 Posts
October 25 2011 19:52 GMT
#326
On October 26 2011 04:35 pzea469 wrote:

Well in bw, corsairs had splash so it worked. Not to mention that storm was bigger and stronger, and if an archon even hit a ball of mutas once, the entire ball's health was severely reduced. It's worse in SC2 imo. Terran also had irradiate and valkaries.


Yep, though storm and archons were iffy.

I was talking about SC vanilla. Think about what the protoss and terran got in brood war. Corsairs, valkyries. Corsair was fast and had a small radius splash with its fast anti air attack. Valk was moderate/slow, but had a huge AOE anti air attack and good range.

Both units were designed primarily to stop the unbelievable mutalisk domination. Both races had options, sure, but they were much harder to pull off, and blizzard gave them simpler, easier to use answers, and it fixed the problem nicely.

I personally wish the thor got the viking's missile attack, and the viking got the thor's. That would have been perfect, IMO (would also let thors use their missile attack vs colossus)
"I like to tape my thumbs to my hands to see what it would be like to be a dinosaur."
PopcornColonel
Profile Joined March 2011
United States769 Posts
October 25 2011 19:54 GMT
#327
I'm gonna have to say ZvT is fine, with regard to mutalisks, because of the insane DPS and mobility of marines paired with medivacs, and the great splash damage and usefulness of thors.

For ZvP, however, mutalisks are a bit too strong, because blink stalkers don't have the DPS to deal with a flock of mutalisks before they escape, and phoenixes are so expensive and utterly useless outside of fighting mutalisks. Also, phoenixes are fairly difficult to micro against mutalisks, which can just a-move.
Zerg delenda est.
Disarm22
Profile Joined January 2011
United States151 Posts
October 25 2011 19:57 GMT
#328
i agree. i strongly feel that blizz is lacking originality in their new units. Swarm host seems like a burrowed broodlord to me and Zergs already have infestors. the major diff i see is that the locusts that swarm from the host do not have a spawn time from eggs like the infested terran. the tempest just seems too similar to the phoenix. i feel that protoss early game stargate harass is going to be hell to deal with. two vooids a few phoenix and the oracle to drop a shield over a spore crawler to void out anti air while the phoenix n voids take care of the queens. I dunno, just my thoughts as i expected more original units.
Cliiiiiiide!
xTivo
Profile Joined June 2011
29 Posts
October 25 2011 19:57 GMT
#329
I'm actually really excited about the tempest vs. medivacs. Splash in the air (tempest) and splash on the ground (colossi) means a very dead terran army.
rycho
Profile Joined July 2010
United States360 Posts
October 25 2011 19:57 GMT
#330
On October 26 2011 04:48 Honeybadger wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 26 2011 04:37 Moldwood wrote:

My terran opinion? stop bitching ^ ^ thors are sort of inadequate as far as defending your base but...... Mass repair on turrets and stim marines. do it.


Yeah, I like having my turrets die instantly if I don't get to them in time, and even when I do, the glaive wurm bounce kills 25 scv's AND the turret.


yeah, imagine if your turret cost more (150 vs 100), took longer to build (40s vs 25s), did significantly less dps (14 vs 28) AND couldn't be repaired. i think this is the reason for the tempest.
HwangjaeTerran
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Finland5967 Posts
October 25 2011 19:57 GMT
#331
I've had more and more zergs rush to mutalisks on two bases recently and it's surprisingly hard to come out on top when you open with reactor hellion expands and such.
You don't have the infrastructure to make marines and turrets are quite band unless you overkill with them and even then not every place will be covered.

But no they are not overpowered, I wouldn't say. But as terran the lack of really good anti-air unit like the goliath has started to show a bit IMO as zergs have become better with mutalisks. And there isn't that near end-all ability like Irradiate in BW. ( I guess HSM was meant to be that :/ )
The mutalisk - marine relation is also something most people still can't handle. It gets pretty funky with the numbers :S
https://steamcommunity.com/id/*tlusernamehere*/
Roxy
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada753 Posts
October 25 2011 19:58 GMT
#332
IMO, Yes
Muta OP

I feel they are too mobile.
Sure you run the risk of getting straight up killed because they are rarely effective in battle, but they are so cripplign to an economy

If the enemy does decide to base trade, they can lose 2 entire mineral lines in the time it takes to move your army across the map

This prevents any means of reinforcing your army.

Then the mutas can come by and help defend against your army whilst the zerg still has full production capabilities.
http://sc2ranks.com/us/941824/Roxy - Masters Protoss: "Respect my authoritai"
strength
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States493 Posts
October 25 2011 19:59 GMT
#333
I feel that vikings are gonna get raped too. Only way to stop collo is gonna have to be, uhhh idk now lol @ terran players TvP!
blooblooblahblah
Profile Joined February 2011
Australia4163 Posts
October 25 2011 20:01 GMT
#334
In ZvP, mutas might be a bit too strong but i think it's balanced out enough by the fact tht zerg feels so vulnerable before they can get their flock out. Either way, i don't think the tempest is really going to fix any of the problems protoss have with mutas in the mid game, Unless it becomes standard to build a stargate and a fleet beacon (which is possible cos of the new units)
Ganzi beat me without stim. Ostojiy beat me with a nydus. Siphonn beat me with probes. Revival beat my sentry-immortal all-in.
SolidMoose
Profile Joined June 2011
United States1240 Posts
October 25 2011 20:05 GMT
#335
It's not a matter of the Mutalisk being necessarily "overpowered" but that they became sort of a design flaw. It's much easier for a zerg to do severe damage to workers/tanks etc than it is to actually kill the mutalisks (at least in terms of Terran). The only way mutalisks ever die is if the Zerg does a terrible move command over marines or whatever, or has to use them in a fight to not lose the game. I don't think that was the intended design of them, but since there are not a lot of other options they remained the same in WoL.

I think with the new warhound, it's going to be harder to abuse mutalisks, but it is offset by the other buffs zerg is getting.
Cutlery
Profile Joined December 2010
Norway565 Posts
October 25 2011 20:16 GMT
#336
I think u r quite right. warhound is needed now that thor is "gone", it is, rly. But it is probably quite bad against zerg ground army, so it's a trade off. The all-round super unit thor, vs a more anti air anti mech (zerg has no mech) units. Protoss vs mutas, meh, they dont need a 3rd splash unit against air.
DARKHYDRA
Profile Joined September 2006
United States303 Posts
October 25 2011 20:21 GMT
#337
The only thing I see the tempest doing is helping colossus tech in the late game when opponents have lots of corruptors/vikings. Warhound? well its getting closer to the goliath but that air-splash is a wierd choice. I agree with the OP on all of this.
Honeybadger
Profile Joined August 2010
United States821 Posts
October 25 2011 20:22 GMT
#338
On October 26 2011 04:57 rycho wrote:
yeah, imagine if your turret cost more (150 vs 100), took longer to build (40s vs 25s), did significantly less dps (14 vs 28) AND couldn't be repaired. i think this is the reason for the tempest.


Cannons can also shoot down.

But that's aside the point, I think the tempest is a good idea. Let's hope it works out.
"I like to tape my thumbs to my hands to see what it would be like to be a dinosaur."
Honeybadger
Profile Joined August 2010
United States821 Posts
October 25 2011 20:24 GMT
#339
On October 26 2011 04:59 strength wrote:
I feel that vikings are gonna get raped too. Only way to stop collo is gonna have to be, uhhh idk now lol @ terran players TvP!


Warhounds will probably fill that role. They have an anti-mech attack.

I feel kind of bad for protoss, honestly. The only units you have that aren't mechanical are zealots, archons, and templar. But that comp gets shredded by battle hellions.
"I like to tape my thumbs to my hands to see what it would be like to be a dinosaur."
ReketSomething
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States6012 Posts
October 25 2011 20:25 GMT
#340
I'm a masters player and I believe mutas are OP. If it ever happens (30 muta+) against zerg pvz, I can't deal with it. The way to deal with it is to not let them get 30+ muta, so its op but not broken imo
Jaedong :3
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