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[D]Are mutalisks overpowered in WOL?? - Page 15

Forum Index > SC2 General
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ishboh
Profile Joined October 2010
United States954 Posts
October 25 2011 18:23 GMT
#281
no mutas are not OP against terran or toss imo. thors+marines did just fine against mutas and stalkers are more than enough to deal with mutas (especially with blink)
SoKHo
Profile Joined April 2011
Korea (South)1081 Posts
October 25 2011 18:25 GMT
#282
You probably never played protoss and had to deal with mass muta... There is almost nothing that protoss can do to deal with it. Archons are too slow, blink stalkers are actually quite bad against muta, no way your gonna get a storm off on a good player, and phoenix are good in low # to low # combat, but not massed. Protoss AA is pretty shitty.
"If you don't understand my silence, you won't understand my words"|| Big Nal_rA fan boy!! Nal_rA, Bisu, Huk, MC, Hero fighting! SKT1---->
Stress
Profile Joined February 2011
United States980 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-25 18:31:57
October 25 2011 18:28 GMT
#283
I think mutas are "working as intended" at my level of play(plat/diamond). As a Protoss player I never really have an issue with them unless I am completely caught off guard, which shouldn't happen if you are scouting properly. Cannons at the mineral line + Blink Stalkers with Guardian Shield completely own them.
On the other hand, my skill with Zerg is about at the same level and I have a horrible time dealing with mutas in zvz. To me it is basically instant win if you catch your opponent off guard with them. But overall I wouldn't consider them OP the slightest bit.

Edit: as I typed this out I just saw EGiNcontroL get destroyed by them.
"Touch my gosu hands." - Tastosis | | fOrGG // MC // Jaedong
JonnyLaw
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States3482 Posts
October 25 2011 18:29 GMT
#284
Check out JYP vs Yugioh from up/down matches group B.

This is a very recent example of the difficulties which mutas create in the PvZ matchup.

Attack and pray while they're expanding and killing your base. Or turtle and cry as they pick away at your main while banking a lot of money for a strong tech switch off 5 base.
adacan
Profile Joined September 2011
United States117 Posts
October 25 2011 18:32 GMT
#285
Aren't phoenix like the hard counter to mass mutalisks. Seems that only a few can completely crush any number of mutas. Besides archons, templars, blink stalkers all do a pretty good job against them.
Rumpus
Profile Joined August 2011
United States136 Posts
October 25 2011 18:34 GMT
#286
Mutalisks OP? They're good against things that can't hit them and vikings. Only units that are absurdly outnumbered will lose to Mutalisks... and to be effective you need 20-30, not the 5 like in Brood War.
Grammin'
hipsterHobbit
Profile Joined September 2011
United States218 Posts
October 25 2011 18:39 GMT
#287
any number of phoenix vs a muta count higher than 30 with some upgrades is just a joke. you have to have 300 apm to micro them, and you still just get destroyed
Makura
Profile Joined December 2010
United States317 Posts
October 25 2011 18:41 GMT
#288
im kinda against the argument that like 40 mutas is OP cause... its 4000/4000 resource in army killing like.... say 6 archons (which can still win if not attended) which is like 600/1800?
SHOW THEM WHAT THE CATFISH COMBO IS ALL ABOUT!
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
October 25 2011 18:41 GMT
#289
On October 26 2011 03:32 adacan wrote:
Aren't phoenix like the hard counter to mass mutalisks. Seems that only a few can completely crush any number of mutas. Besides archons, templars, blink stalkers all do a pretty good job against them.


No they are a counter to a small number of mutas, but get worst the more mutas there are. And all of these units need to catch the mutas and fight them in a sustained battle. This is why protos has sucha problem with them, because the mutas simply leave when your army shows up.

They are brutal and get force protoss into a base-trade that really feels like it favors the zerg. I would love a unit that could shoot 1 time and really do some damage to a flock of mutas, which is what I am hoping the tempest will do.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Morning
Profile Joined February 2011
18 Posts
October 25 2011 18:42 GMT
#290
I think it's not so much that mutalisks are OP in WoL, but that they might be OP in HotS with the other changes to the game. I think that mutalisks used alongside the reverse-darkswarm will be very powerful against terran, for one thing.

Also, blizzard has said that if they were focused only on balance, they wouldn't change multiplayer at all in HotS; it may be that blizzard just doesn't think that mutalisks create fun games for the player on the receiving end. Obviously, I don't actually know what blizzard is thinking, but these are my guesses.
KimJongChill
Profile Joined January 2011
United States6429 Posts
October 25 2011 18:43 GMT
#291
Not at all, because they are so bad in a straight up fight. Their harassment capability is amazing, though.
MMA: U realise MMA: Most of my army EgIdra: fuck off MMA: Killed my orbital MMA: LOL MMA: just saying MMA: u werent loss
Kal_rA
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States2925 Posts
October 25 2011 18:50 GMT
#292
I don't really understand the point of the warhound. Its an ugly looking unit. Looks too tall and box like in my eyes. They should just bring back the goliath... Its practically the same unit -__- Just adjust the stats on it a little to fit the role you want and keep that in the terran arsenal.

It isn't creative to make the same unit again. If your going to copy your own work, do it right (especially when the original worked so well!) haha
Jaedong.
Alzadar
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada5009 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-25 18:53:06
October 25 2011 18:52 GMT
#293
If a Zerg player ever gets out 10-15 Mutalisks against Protoss, and then doesn't die or take crippling damage in the next 2 minutes, he has pretty much won.

It is impossible to propely defend your base against a pack of Mutalisks. Cannons are terrible compared to the cheaper anti-air of the other races, and your army can only be in so many places at once. You can split it it up, but do that too many times and you are just donating units to the Zerg.

Mutalisk builds are weak to 2-base allins, but you can't magically change your build after you scout Mutalisks incoming. A hastily thrown together assault is pretty much always going to fall apart against the pre-emptive spine crawlers and zerglings of your opponent.
I am the Town Medic.
Deathmanbob
Profile Joined December 2010
United States2356 Posts
October 25 2011 18:53 GMT
#294
On October 26 2011 03:23 ishboh wrote:
no mutas are not OP against terran or toss imo. thors+marines did just fine against mutas and stalkers are more than enough to deal with mutas (especially with blink)


30 muta will easily clean up 30 stalkers even with blink. At some point the splash dmg from muta is just so out of control that toss really has no answer to it besides i hope the zerg is bad enough to let me get a storm off, or fly right into arcons. This is how it feels from a toss point of view, in all honesty thought mutas are my crutch, i just cant beat them so i might be biased
No Artosis, you are robin
koppik
Profile Joined April 2010
United States676 Posts
October 25 2011 18:58 GMT
#295
I don't think they're overpowered, but they do scale a little too well with large numbers given the very limited anti-air AOE from Terran (thor's aoe range is microscopic) and Protoss (storm and archons?)

I think it's more of a design choice that they don't want mutalisks to be massed up to 30 or so.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
October 25 2011 18:58 GMT
#296
On October 26 2011 03:23 ishboh wrote:
no mutas are not OP against terran or toss imo. thors+marines did just fine against mutas and stalkers are more than enough to deal with mutas (especially with blink)


But Protoss buildings are really bad against mutas. In the style were people go mass mutas, they don't ever fight the army directly. This sort of base trade style really hard to deal with on large maps. You can't deal with the mutas because you need your WHOLE ARMY to fight them and they will never commit.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
4Servy
Profile Joined August 2008
Netherlands1542 Posts
October 25 2011 18:59 GMT
#297
nothing wrong with 10-20 mutas its just that 20-30+ muta is kinda free win (bar some maps ofc) tbh, can just spam expos across the map and in the worst situation you are forced to base race with the fastest air unit in the game with 1000k dps.
Mitchlew
Profile Joined September 2010
Australia428 Posts
October 25 2011 19:00 GMT
#298
Watching incontrols stream, mass muta is incredibly hard to deal with. If you stay in your base you are just going to lose all map control, if you leave, good by economy. It pretty much forces a base race in which zerg is the best race at.
rotegirte
Profile Joined April 2011
Germany2859 Posts
October 25 2011 19:00 GMT
#299
On October 26 2011 03:25 SoKHo wrote:
You probably never played protoss and had to deal with mass muta... There is almost nothing that protoss can do to deal with it. Archons are too slow, blink stalkers are actually quite bad against muta, no way your gonna get a storm off on a good player, and phoenix are good in low # to low # combat, but not massed. Protoss AA is pretty shitty.


But wouldn't that fall under "well, if you let the protoss acquire 200/200, it is hard"?

It's not like dozens of mutas appear out of thin air
PH
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United States6173 Posts
October 25 2011 19:01 GMT
#300
Mutas are horribly strong. I really don't like that you can two-shot buildings with enough of them...
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