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On October 25 2011 12:45 slam wrote:
"well i think the swarm host might do some of that..... riiiiiiiiight"
Anyone else pickup dusty's tendency to say "riiiiiiight" to the extent where you no longer payed attention to the interview and just waited in anticipation for the next riiiiiight?
I tried to ignore this in the beginning, but it just got worse and worse. I was wondering about the outcome if you'd have a drinking game based on how many times he said right during this interview.
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Excellent, excellent interview.
Kennigit was extremely well-spoken and articulate with his questions. Really phrased them in a non-accusatory manner and instead came from the perspective of "So how do we fix this issue?". As a result, it brought up some really interesting discussion and insight on how the situation looks from the dev perspective.
I didn't agree with a several things Browder said, and it seems like there are some issues he has straight up blinders on over, but overall he gave the idea that he's an intelligent guy who is aware and cognizant of the major concerns.
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I think Blizzard isn't sure of an efficient way to properly discern what community maps are sufficiently popular and properly balanced, BEFORE having them up on the ladder.
While there are dozens of decent looking community maps out there, with some of them appearing to have undergone numerous revisions and some level of testings by GM players, those levels of testings are still very limited and not well-documented. How is Blizzard to discern accurately which map is sufficiently tested for all levels of play? It is a risk for them to appear to be favoring particular mapmakers or teams, picking maps that might not be in favor of the community.
Perhaps the recent TL map-making contest is a step to such an eventual goal. TL being an intermediary with MOTM-like contests to determine a map(or maps) that can be presented to Blizzard, for further examination for consideration to be placed on the ladder.
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Great interview. I'm a bit bothered that Browder seemed to have no idea on what the custom map issue was about or what to do about it but I'm glad they're going to implement lan for tournaments.
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I think this interview feels scripted, right? You know full of sound-bytes, right? He did a good job of providing very safe answers, right? You know how there are various Tastosis quote drinking games, right, maybe new barcraft game of drinking every time you here "right", right? People complain about Terran having too much stuff right and it's all super versatile right? And he wants all other races to feel like they have a lot of stuff right? So they added even more functionality to Terran right? And removed units from the other races right? Dodged all potentially interesting questions, right.
TLDR: right, right, right, right, right, right, right, riiiiiiiiiiiiiiight?
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I think blizzard needs to stop worrying about lower leveled players and just make a good game, it really bothers me that he kept mentioning diamond level players like they are good or matter for balance, the system enforces a 50% win rate until you are too good for that to apply, they should just balance for the players who actually take the game seriously.
Am I on that level? no, would I mind if they balanced that way? no, that would be awesome to me if I could watch the game and not wonder who the better player was at the end or if they just won because of their race.
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I gotta say, Browder and Kennigit both did a nice job with this interview. Not too hard on Dustin, but firm enough. Not too many specifics (per norm) from Dustin, but enough to be reassuring.
I just got the feel from this that they really do have E-Sports best interests(and in combination, blizzard's best interests) at heart. Browder makes a great point in that, if they heavily considered every scenario, and every strategic nuance, when creating a new unit or ability for HotS, nothing would get done. I can see that, and I respect the fact that despite knowing there will be huge backlash to changes, they're doing things to change the game forever anyhow. That's what we all want. We want new units, new toys. We want new abilities, and more fun stuff to play with. This is a really difficult game they're playing by changing the status quo so drastically, but it needs to be done.
It falls on us, really. It's our game, and what I get from the panels, the interviews, the flexibility based on feedback . . . they want to make the game for US! It's good for them, fun for us, and good for the pro scene. Let's keep an open mind to new choices, and realize that we have a good amount of say in what comes down the pipe(and what stays for the long haul.) Especially with another beta on the horizon. Coming from a design background, knowing that Blizz operates on a constant iteration philosophy is really comforting.
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On October 25 2011 11:37 FeUerFlieGe wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2011 09:34 Bartimaeus wrote:
First of all: mad props to the interviewer - that guy's questions were spot on and addressed many prominent issues without provoking Browder or bringing up balance too often. He did a great job and I'd love to see more interviews from him.
To start on Browder:
Negative:
His shirt is a Terran shirt. Awesome lol.
He talks about ways the Replicator would be removed (one of them already being in the alpha play [no massive]) . . . before its even in the game.
He says the drawback of Terran is that you are . . . too complete? too good? This is, imo, a little ridiculous as even the person who designed Terran can't find a drawback to the race - as he is the one who should know the race better than any other. His inability to find a strong flaw is astounding and revealing.
He's saying that he doesn't want to fix the pathfinder because he believes it will still be ball-on-ball action, just slightly smaller - his option is to take food out of the balls, which is essentially doing the same thing - making the balls smaller?
He's crossing his fingers and saying "Maybe!" when he's talking about a unit (Swarm Host) he's going to throw into this game that will affect the income of many pros in varying ways.
He dismisses the option of Lan by saying that it is a lot of work for them - not by saying that it would affect them negatively financially. I'd wish that he chose the other option because saying that it will be hard for them to do is almost taunting us, saying that he just doesn't want to work on it.
Positive:
I'm glad that he could at least admit that the map issue was a problem instead of just dismissing it like the question about the drawback of playing Terran.
I liked that he admits that he realizes the gravity of his decisions (later in the cast, after the Swarm host finger crossing).
I'm happy that he admits that some problems exist, such as PvT in Korea.
Overall the person interviewing Browder was flawless, and I'm disappointed with Browder's responses on a majority of the issues he spoke on. Haha he is wearing a terran shirt! That's so ironic. But about the pathfinding: The pathfinding in BW kind of sucked, that's why there were no big balls of units going against other big balls of units because it was much more effective to spread your units so they didn't get hung up on one another. The SC2 pathfinding is pretty smart in most cases, so it's able to effectively move units in a big ball. Dustin doesn't want to have to dumb down the pathfinding to fix the issue, so they have looked for alternative ways to deal with it.
But why is everyone sure it is impossible to have the units spread out more and good pathfinding? Isn't bad pathfinding generally units taking the long way to get where you clicked or getting stuck and not going there at all? Can't you have the units good at taking the shortest path to get somewhere, but stay more spread out on the way and once they get there instead of always going into a perfect ball with no room between them?
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i think kennegit shaked dustin browder's hand with the hand he coughed into
hidden intentions
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Great interview with very direct question/answer, I liked the " if u want brood war, play bw " im sure he have read the " What SC2 is missing " big thread on TL ^^
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Great interview! Great questions, great answers... couldn't have asked for more!
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On October 25 2011 09:33 Daralii wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2011 09:27 hordeau wrote:
Why not just chop out kennigit entirely in the video and zoom in on that sexy bald head? My eyes automatically go to the terran patch he always wears. >_>
Yessss - The confederacy pulling strings and getting Browder as the designer of SC2 was quite a coup. The Terran race has done well with our man at the helm, and Kim as well on balance - Balance, Wha Ha Ha Ha Ha. Its balanced alright, TERRAN WINS EVERYTHING! Ha Ha Ha Ha
Now, if these two would just stop wearing our T-Shirts, and stop drawing attention to themselves - we can continue our dominance. As it should be.
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On October 25 2011 09:42 Talin wrote:
"If we were to sit here and carefully analyze the metagame, we would add nothing" <- Dustin Browder making perfect sense.
Too bad it doesn't matter much when Blizzard wants to sell an expansion regardless of it resetting the game completely. -_-
QFT
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Honestly there's too much whining about Terran specifically. Like honestly aside from Code S no other tournament is very Terran heavy AT ALL. Also nobody points to the fact that Code S has a lot of issues with routing bad players out of Code S and getting good players in. The whole tournament system pre-Ro16 is entirely flawed.
Just look at how Code S became filled with Terran in the first place. Because Code A got stacked with Good players that belonged in Code S like MMA, Ganzi, Mvp and Bomber to name a few. They all climbed their way into Code S however due to the flaw of up and downs not all the bad players were routed out.
But now look at Code A full of Zerg and Protoss who are all going to make their shot for Code S and is now also getting refilled by more Protoss and Zerg specifically 4 foreigner Protoss and Zerg players and what do you think is going to happen? Code S may start to balance out or even become dry of Terrans.
People Jump on the hate train way too fast and never have patience. Look at MLG Orlando, IEM, IPL and now the Korean Weekly. All going to have Protoss and Zerg Champions and not even have Terran make it to the finals. No good Terrans some have said? WHAT? PuMA, Bomber, TheSTC, forGG (who's playing fantastically) Taeja? all not good Terrans? Get outta here.
Another thing to touch on is look at BW. 99% of players would argue that BW is almost completely balanced and is the most balanced game in the world involving 3+race/faction differential. Yet still....guess what Terran is pretty damn dominant. Protoss and Zergs catch their time every now and then but for the most part you would see Fantasy or Flash or going way back BoxeR, NaDa, OOV even lesser Terrans like Midas dominate a ton.
There was a point in BW where Terran literally seemed unbeatable until eventually someone who figure one little thing out. Yet in SC2 everyone points to Terran being imba when the only real Tournament Terran is seeing a lot of success in is Code S which again is only Terran heavy due to Code A being filled with Z and P right now and a flawed up and down system.
I guarantee you that is a player in SC2 loses a game in the current state it's because he deserved to and he could have won had he played better.
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
On October 25 2011 13:27 ZidaneTribal wrote:
i think kennegit shaked dustin browder's hand with the hand he coughed into
hidden intentions
dude i totally did - so gross rofl. SORRY DUSTIN!
Thanks for the positive feedback all.
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Great interview, really enlightening. It's a shame about the LAN thing, but I'm pretty happy about the rest. Don't touch mah terran! :D
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On October 25 2011 13:45 Raiznhell wrote:
Honestly there's too much whining about Terran specifically. Like honestly aside from Code S no other tournament is very Terran heavy AT ALL. Also nobody points to the fact that Code S has a lot of issues with routing bad players out of Code S and getting good players in. The whole tournament system pre-Ro16 is entirely flawed.
Just look at how Code S became filled with Terran in the first place. Because Code A got stacked with Good players that belonged in Code S like MMA, Ganzi, Mvp and Bomber to name a few. They all climbed their way into Code S however due to the flaw of up and downs not all the bad players were routed out.
But now look at Code A full of Zerg and Protoss who are all going to make their shot for Code S and is now also getting refilled by more Protoss and Zerg specifically 4 foreigner Protoss and Zerg players and what do you think is going to happen? Code S may start to balance out or even become dry of Terrans.
People Jump on the hate train way too fast and never have patience. Look at MLG Orlando, IEM, IPL and now the Korean Weekly. All going to have Protoss and Zerg Champions and not even have Terran make it to the finals. No good Terrans some have said? WHAT? PuMA, Bomber, TheSTC, forGG (who's playing fantastically) Taeja? all not good Terrans? Get outta here.
Another thing to touch on is look at BW. 99% of players would argue that BW is almost completely balanced and is the most balanced game in the world involving 3+race/faction differential. Yet still....guess what Terran is pretty damn dominant. Protoss and Zergs catch their time every now and then but for the most part you would see Fantasy or Flash or going way back BoxeR, NaDa, OOV even lesser Terrans like Midas dominate a ton.
There was a point in BW where Terran literally seemed unbeatable until eventually someone who figure one little thing out. Yet in SC2 everyone points to Terran being imba when the only real Tournament Terran is seeing a lot of success in is Code S which again is only Terran heavy due to Code A being filled with Z and P right now and a flawed up and down system.
I guarantee you that is a player in SC2 loses a game in the current state it's because he deserved to and he could have won had he played better.
Agreed. Too much balance whining. Terran had their time in the sun, but its coming to an end.
I don't know why people don't give any thought to the fact there might be more talent playing Terran at that ultra small top 20-30 players. MVP, MMA, Bomber, Puma, ect.... Theres a lot of excellent players playing Terran and that is contributing to the Terran edge in Code 'S' Korea.
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The main thing I liked and hoped, is how Dustin commented that they could look into having mobile private tournament servers for larger tournaments, that would go a long way to stabilizing and legitimizing SC2 as an 'E-Sport', without needing to implementing LAN.
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he sounded like he wanted to balance the game based off all level of plays...even noob friendly=.= it really should be based off at the highest level...
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Wow, nice interview Kennigit I loved it.
I was expecting something like this, I really hope to see more dustin browder talking to the community.
It keeps amusing me how fast he talks, I met him on Blizzard campus for the Latinamerican Invitational (by massive luck, he was walking around when nobody was there) and for those who think that it was scripted, that is just him talking. That guy have a factory of ideas going around his head all day long, I think that's why he have to say "right" all the time, to make sure, to himself, that he really caught the idea that he was receiving.
I love blizzard, starcraft 2 & the smart communities :D.
On October 25 2011 13:23 BinxyBrown wrote:
I think blizzard needs to stop worrying about lower leveled players and just make a good game, it really bothers me that he kept mentioning diamond level players like they are good or matter for balance, the system enforces a 50% win rate until you are too good for that to apply, they should just balance for the players who actually take the game seriously.
Am I on that level? no, would I mind if they balanced that way? no, that would be awesome to me if I could watch the game and not wonder who the better player was at the end or if they just won because of their race.
I'm sorry to say but there isn't a company in the world that would make a game better only for the 2% + 200 top players of their clients.
And I don't know what you understood from the interview but for me its very clear, lings, marines, ultras, dt's, templars and all those units are easy to use even if you are a noob. The difference between a pro and a noob is not using or not using a unit is about pushing the potential of that unit to it's limit, by having good micro, micro while macro, mixing it with other units in your army, etc.
And your opinion obviously doesn't gather the 98% of the players playing SC2 that aren't on Master / GM.
So yeah I agree with dustin when he says that they should also balance the game taking into consideration diamond and below players.
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EPT
