EPTThe problem i have with it is it wont tie in with any strategies. For some protoss plays, you could be going for zealots, immortals, colossus, voids, etc. But with replicants, its just up to chance in what your opponent makes. It is a hard unit to fit into strategies
Possible targets for the replicator - Page 31
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firehand101
Australia3152 Posts
The problem i have with it is it wont tie in with any strategies. For some protoss plays, you could be going for zealots, immortals, colossus, voids, etc. But with replicants, its just up to chance in what your opponent makes. It is a hard unit to fit into strategies | ||
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Hattori_Hanzo
Singapore1229 Posts
On October 26 2011 16:44 Darksoldierr wrote: Im not so sure about the unit at all, why would any terran make a siege / banshee at all if theres a possibility of being copied. I do have a feeling this unit not gonna make it, it just makes terrans play standard bio with maybe ghosts and viking / medivac support. Other than the ghost theres is nothing worth being copied, and even if you make a single banshee / siege / raven, the toss can get even 5 of those in a moment. That won't happen because I know if I see either SCVs or any of my units, already I am ahead of my opponent in unit count, the bigger the replicant count, the more ahead I will be. Thusly, scouting a replicant building a CC would mean if I snipe the SCV or cause the CC to be lost, I would be so far ahead, it wouldn't be funny. However, the other function is clutch defence. Replicating my own ghosts then EMPing them followed by chain sniping everything, or replicate banshees and scoot-shoot like boss. Replicated Siege tanks, are a joke of course, a decent ball of stimmed marauder w/ medivac can take care of that. Same applies playing against Zerg. In the either case, I highly doubt that we would be seeing that kind of clutch defence except above diamond level. For the most part, replicant will end up like the DT, cool concept but relegated to "cute" play because of the significant cost and risks involved. Eventually someone would come up with a cheese for it. Such as marauder/zealot/sentry, siege tank/blink stalker and so on. The only exception being worker replicant play. That has potential, tough to pull off, but worth its rewards. It is extremely greedy play, one basing three gate, robo into observer then replicator, if the expansion is lost (replicated SCV sniped/hatch cancelled) or the observer sniped that would be very huge. But the rewards are just as huge, MULEs and scan, being able to chrono marines/siege tanks/battle cruisers, access to queen, banelings, mobile defences (spine/spore), etc Imagine Huk doing speedling/blink stalker push against Idra. That would be so cool. | ||
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antsache
United States12 Posts
On October 26 2011 16:50 firehand101 wrote: This unit feels so wierd to fit into the game, yet so fitting. You cant really add another tanky robo unit with the immortal and colossus, they are good enough. The replicant is just a crazy unit that could have amazing strategies The problem i have with it is it wont tie in with any strategies. For some protoss plays, you could be going for zealots, immortals, colossus, voids, etc. But with replicants, its just up to chance in what your opponent makes. It is a hard unit to fit into strategies This isn't entirely true. There's a lot of potential for using them as part of a quick transition away from robo to stargate by replicating your own units. Consider - once you decide you want to get void rays or phoenix, you have to throw down the stargate and wait. While that's building, you can pump out a couple replicants, so that the instant your the gate finishes and you build your first air unit you can instantly have as many of it as you have replicants, plus the one you just made. Not as cost effective as building them all normally, but much faster. You could also clone an HT so that you have fast access to storm and full energy, but that's probably more of a reactive scenario than a strategy. | ||
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Twinmold
Sweden238 Posts
On October 26 2011 17:43 antsache wrote: This isn't entirely true. There's a lot of potential for using them as part of a quick transition away from robo to stargate by replicating your own units. Consider - once you decide you want to get void rays or phoenix, you have to throw down the stargate and wait. While that's building, you can pump out a couple replicants, so that the instant your the gate finishes and you build your first air unit you can instantly have as many of it as you have replicants, plus the one you just made. Not as cost effective as building them all normally, but much faster. You could also clone an HT so that you have fast access to storm and full energy, but that's probably more of a reactive scenario than a strategy. It in any case adds alot of flexibility to the protoss tech tree. | ||
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architecture
United States643 Posts
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bpat
United States157 Posts
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SchfiftyFive
United States131 Posts
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Hattori_Hanzo
Singapore1229 Posts
On October 26 2011 18:28 SchfiftyFive wrote: if u made scvs could they repair stalkers,immortals and such? TBH, I don't know. But just play a co-op as P with a T and find out. Attack his stalker while set on auto-repair. | ||
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Roblin
Sweden948 Posts
On October 26 2011 17:45 architecture wrote: We need to know if the replicator can replicate hallucinations. That would allow P to show tech from any tree. replicating a hallucination would result in you having another hallucination of the same kind. does not seem like a very effective use of the replicant, but I assume you cannot replicate timed-life units. imagine the rage if someone misclicked and replicated a broodling or locust. but we don't know anything, for all I know, it might be possible to replicate timed-life units, it would also be the most useless use of replicants ever. imagine the end-game scenario: a protoss have 50 replicants, the armies killed eachother, all resources are mined out creep is slowly receeding and after a while it dissappears entirely, leaving a spire to die by starvation, when the spire dies the replicants replicate the broodlings in a desperate attempt to kill off the very last extractor. that would be hilarious. On October 26 2011 18:28 SchfiftyFive wrote: if u made scvs could they repair stalkers,immortals and such? yes, if you replicated SCVs they could repair your mechanical units, but paying 200/200 just to get 1 unit that can repair is a little steep no? edit: personally I fear the following: in 2v2: TPvsXY the terran rushes to get a single banshee the protoss rushes to get some replicators when the banshee comes out the replicators replicate the banshee congratulations, you now have Y cloaked banshees to harrass your opponent with at X minutes into the game! ok, lets calculate X 3:00 the first barracks finishes up 4:00 the first factory finishes up 4:50 the first starport finishes up (a techlab have been prduced by the barracks) 5:50 the banshee finishes. lets see how many replicators in the same time is realistic. 3:00 the first gateway finishes 3:50 the cybernetics core finishes 4:55 the robo finishes time left: 1:05 I think I heard someone say the replicator is 30 seconds of buildtime so you can get 2 of them (assuming you have enough gas, but I am quite certain people will find ways to get that gas) so 2v2ers now need to be afraid of 6minute cloaked banshees, 2 of them, plus 1 normal banshee. some analysis: after this rush has been accomplished, each player will be left with: protoss: 1 gateway, 1 cybercore, 1 robo + whatever zealots he perhaps might have afforded terran: 1 barracks, 1 factory, 1 starport, 1 techlab + whatever marines and hellions he might have afforded "lost" resources in replicating: banshee: 150 / 100 replicator: 200 / 200 2banshees - 2replicators = -100 / -200 cloak: 200/200 2banshees + cloakupgrade - 2replicators = +100 / 0 so its actually "gained" resources? this is not difficult to transition out of, as long as both players have kept up in economy reasonibly well, they are not actually behind the opponents in any way except for the fact they have 550/500 resources tied up in banshees, which are supposed to pay for themselves through doing damage, if necessary the cloaked ones can defend resonibly well, assuming the opponents have not saved up for a scan or two. and you can do pretty much whatever you want from this position (stargate play might be difficult) the terran has its 1/1/1 setup, and the protoss can choose how many gateways it wants to add, both players can also choose to expand if they want to. | ||
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FreshDumbledore
Austria57 Posts
On October 25 2011 00:55 Kon-Tiki wrote: I think stopping the 1-1-1 is one of the biggest factors this unit has. Replicating a medivac to heal (properly heal beyond shield regeneration, I mean) will probably also be popular, as well as ghosts/infestors and SCVs, primarily to repair the mechanical much more than trying to follow the Terran tech tree. LOL you realize that medivacs are only able to heal biological units? Secondly, a medivac is 100/100, whereas replicants are 200/200 | ||
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Crisco
1170 Posts
On October 26 2011 18:48 FreshDumbledore wrote: LOL you realize that medivacs are only able to heal biological units? Secondly, a medivac is 100/100, whereas replicants are 200/200 nothing wrong with paying 200/200 for a medivac (though i admit, not too many things it can heal), considering the flexibility that you're paying for and access to units you would otherwise never use. The most fantastic job of replicators is being able to assess ALL abilities. This can allow some fantastic timings such as opponent has ghosts but hasnt started cloaking -> you replicate, cloak, and snipe all his ghosts. It also can smooth out the transition from colossi to HT. Think about this: You go through robo tech, build colossi, they get destroyed. You're switching to Templars now and you build several replicants out of your robo while the building is coming in. you pop out the FIRST templar, and you instantly have access to storm while storm is researching. A very, very smooth transition (albeit perhaps gas heavy) from colossi -> HT w/ replicated psistorm -> HT w/ psistorm What I think needs to happen to raise the value of replicators is to give more researchable abilities to the later tech protoss units, such as immortals, voidrays, and so forth. This allows a choice of going replicants for instant ability access (with a generally higher cost) or being economical and going the traditional route. | ||
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Roblin
Sweden948 Posts
On October 26 2011 18:53 Crisco wrote: nothing wrong with paying 200/200 for a medivac (though i admit, not too many things it can heal), considering the flexibility that you're paying for and access to units you would otherwise never use. The most fantastic job of replicators is being able to assess ALL abilities. This can allow some fantastic timings such as opponent has ghosts but hasnt started cloaking -> you replicate, cloak, and snipe all his ghosts. It also can smooth out the transition from colossi to HT. Think about this: You go through robo tech, build colossi, they get destroyed. You're switching to Templars now and you build several replicants out of your robo while the building is coming in. you pop out the FIRST templar, and you instantly have access to storm while storm is researching. A very, very smooth transition (albeit perhaps gas heavy) from colossi -> HT w/ replicated psistorm -> HT w/ psistorm What I think needs to happen to raise the value of replicators is to give more researchable abilities to the later tech protoss units, such as immortals, voidrays, and so forth. This allows a choice of going replicants for instant ability access (with a generally higher cost) or being economical and going the traditional route. true, replicator will smooth out a lot of transitions, but this is only true if you open robo, so won't everyone open robo? | ||
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Twinmold
Sweden238 Posts
On October 26 2011 19:27 Roblin wrote: true, replicator will smooth out a lot of transitions, but this is only true if you open robo, so won't everyone open robo? Not necessarily but most people already open robo for the flexibility it provides. Observers are almost too important to skip. | ||
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Ryder.
1117 Posts
On October 26 2011 18:53 Crisco wrote: nothing wrong with paying 200/200 for a medivac (though i admit, not too many things it can heal), considering the flexibility that you're paying for and access to units you would otherwise never use. The most fantastic job of replicators is being able to assess ALL abilities. This can allow some fantastic timings such as opponent has ghosts but hasnt started cloaking -> you replicate, cloak, and snipe all his ghosts. It also can smooth out the transition from colossi to HT. Think about this: You go through robo tech, build colossi, they get destroyed. You're switching to Templars now and you build several replicants out of your robo while the building is coming in. you pop out the FIRST templar, and you instantly have access to storm while storm is researching. A very, very smooth transition (albeit perhaps gas heavy) from colossi -> HT w/ replicated psistorm -> HT w/ psistorm What I think needs to happen to raise the value of replicators is to give more researchable abilities to the later tech protoss units, such as immortals, voidrays, and so forth. This allows a choice of going replicants for instant ability access (with a generally higher cost) or being economical and going the traditional route. Ok firstly in regards to the guy you quoted, you can't replicate massive units! Why this is still not common knowledge is beyond me, but Blizzard already said it can't be done. Consequentially, you every single unit you can replicate is cheaper than the replicator itself. Second, in relation to your point about tech switching, the concept is good but remember replicants cost money as well. The 'several replicants' you build (just say 3 of them) cost 600/600, therefore you are delaying your psi storm tech by 600min 600 gas. In the long run wouldn't you be better off just starting storm research that much earlier? (I'm assuming that you aren't a nub and floating 600 gas, hence by spending 600 gas you are delaying your storm research by 600 gas). I can see where it would be handy having 3 HT with full energy and storm in time for a particular push, but I think in most cases wasting the extra resources and delaying your storm research wouldn't be worth it. | ||
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Twinmold
Sweden238 Posts
On October 26 2011 22:41 Ryder. wrote: Ok firstly in regards to the guy you quoted, you can't replicate massive units! Why this is still not common knowledge is beyond me, but Blizzard already said it can't be done. Consequentially, you every single unit you can replicate is cheaper than the replicator itself. Second, in relation to your point about tech switching, the concept is good but remember replicants cost money as well. The 'several replicants' you build (just say 3 of them) cost 600/600, therefore you are delaying your psi storm tech by 600min 600 gas. In the long run wouldn't you be better off just starting storm research that much earlier? (I'm assuming that you aren't a nub and floating 600 gas, hence by spending 600 gas you are delaying your storm research by 600 gas). I can see where it would be handy having 3 HT with full energy and storm in time for a particular push, but I think in most cases wasting the extra resources and delaying your storm research wouldn't be worth it. You aren't always in a situation where you can wait for storm research or templar energy (if for example a push is on its way). Wouldn't it then be practical to have the alternative of chronoing out a few replicants (their buildtime is really short) and copying an high templar? | ||
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zmansman17
United States2567 Posts
1) Never produce Shredders in TvP (That'd be a nice unit to land inside your mineral line) 2) Reluctantly or Do not Produce Ravens (Imagine mass Collosi with 5 PDDs to nullify the only counter, mass viking) 3) 1-1-1 is no longer viable 4) Early mech is no longer viable (Toss can replicate and seige your base before you have seige tech) 5) Banshee openings versus Toss would result in your death (the normal 4 marines in bunker could EASILY be microed against and killed, ESPECIALLY with cloak). 6) Toss will replicate marines late game and troll you by dancing with them 7) This unit is silly Ultimately this unit is going to limit and simplify the match up even more than it is now. Terran will only produce a few units so as to avoid other units being replicated. Bring back the Dark Archon. Mind control with 400 food armies leaves MUCH to be desired. | ||
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See.Blue
United States2673 Posts
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rEalGuapo
Germany832 Posts
NP you get 2 seconds of control over the unit. Replicate: you get the unit. Replicating Ghosts can be nice, maybe Banshees for Cloak. Rep Infestor for Fungal Growth+Psystorm-awesome-mega-nerd-rage! It will however make Colossi useless in PvP as you can get the Colossi for 100 Minerals less with free range-Upgrade Replicate Raven(s) to use PDDs against Marauders/Vikings I would love to replicate Queens just to help spread Creep and vomit on my Nexi(not helping or anything, it would simply look funny) What I just thought: Replicate an SCV - build a CC - build more SCVs. This is generally a slightly more expensive main(200/200 for replicator) and then... wait for it ... ... kepp waiting! ... .. ... you can: REPAIR!!!!!!!!!!!! Repairing my Colossi and stalker after battles would be quite funny and maybe worth the cost in long games. I mean you have to expand anyways, right? Yeah in all honesty I wish they would just change every unit Protoss gets completely. I want unique awesome Units that are useful in a couple of ways. Not units of my opponent! | ||
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rEalGuapo
Germany832 Posts
On October 27 2011 01:12 zmansman17 wrote: All the Replicant means to Terran: 1) Never produce Shredders in TvP (That'd be a nice unit to land inside your mineral line) 2) Reluctantly or Do not Produce Ravens (Imagine mass Collosi with 5 PDDs to nullify the only counter, mass viking) 3) 1-1-1 is no longer viable 4) Early mech is no longer viable (Toss can replicate and seige your base before you have seige tech) 5) Banshee openings versus Toss would result in your death (the normal 4 marines in bunker could EASILY be microed against and killed, ESPECIALLY with cloak). 6) Toss will replicate marines late game and troll you by dancing with them 7) This unit is silly Ultimately this unit is going to limit and simplify the match up even more than it is now. Terran will only produce a few units so as to avoid other units being replicated. Bring back the Dark Archon. Mind control with 400 food armies leaves MUCH to be desired. Point 6 and 7 made me lol Well Shredders take 8 seconds to transform, they will not be used as harras units. I pretty much agree with the rest. I think it is a stupid unit that shall not pass! Edit: nice double post, sorry.. | ||
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figq
12519 Posts
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