On October 26 2011 00:42 FallDownMarigold wrote: You are P. Opponent is Z. Opponent makes infestors. You make replicants. You replicate an infestor. Opponent NP's a different replicant. While replicant is NP'd by Z infestor, P infestor NP's Z infestor. Just before P infestor NP's Z infestor NP'ing replicant, opponent manages to replicate an immortal. But right as opponent replicates an immortal, P infestor's NP hits Z infestor.
So whose immortal is it anyway? I see the need for a "red flag" review system like in the NFL.
This isn't that complicated. It's your immortal. NP is temporary. While the opponent has it under NP and you NP the opponent, the immortal is under your control (since you now control his infestor while it is channeling its ability). So the only thing that happened is the opponent got to change one of your replicants for you (by making it permanently into an immortal). Case closed.
On October 26 2011 02:56 sVnteen wrote: replicate a banshee so that you have like 3 of them and send them to terran and the terran will be soooooooooooo screwed since he WILL lose SCVs to cloaked banshees and also will be forced to build turrets or scan all the time also this will totally kill 1 1 1 all in with banshees since it will die to replicated banshees + tanks
They're not cheap - terrans would be HAPPY to burn a scan (which costs 240-270 minerals from the loss of a mule) to kill a unit that costs you 200/200. You're just throwing money away doing that. You'd have to get like four worker kills to justify it with just one banshee, and depending on how far away his marines or vikings are that's gonna be close. And since you can only do it when he actually makes a banshee for you to copy, this is going to be a very uncommon situational tactic. Maybe if you use it to hit an expo that just got a bunch of mules dropped on it, but that's just making it even more situational.
EDIT: This may actually be one of the few cases where someone can say these words, but DTs are actually probably more cost-effective than that and could accomplish more or less the same thing.
On October 26 2011 04:37 anjdza wrote: Replicate never ending Mule!
In all likelihood, you can't replicate summoned units.
Because anyone would be extremely pissed to accidentally replicate an Auto-turret or a PDD or worse, a broodling! I can imagine the number of complaints blizzard will receive.. Lol
On October 26 2011 02:56 sVnteen wrote: replicate a banshee so that you have like 3 of them and send them to terran and the terran will be soooooooooooo screwed since he WILL lose SCVs to cloaked banshees and also will be forced to build turrets or scan all the time also this will totally kill 1 1 1 all in with banshees since it will die to replicated banshees + tanks
They're not cheap - terrans would be HAPPY to burn a scan (which costs 240-270 minerals from the loss of a mule) to kill a unit that costs you 200/200. You're just throwing money away doing that. You'd have to get like four worker kills to justify it with just one banshee, and depending on how far away his marines or vikings are that's gonna be close. And since you can only do it when he actually makes a banshee for you to copy, this is going to be a very uncommon situational tactic. Maybe if you use it to hit an expo that just got a bunch of mules dropped on it, but that's just making it even more situational.
EDIT: This may actually be one of the few cases where someone can say these words, but DTs are actually probably more cost-effective than that and could accomplish more or less the same thing.
By that logic, why do Terran make banshees in TvT?
scans are also very limited early on, Terran really needs those mules early game
On October 24 2011 23:58 VTPerfect wrote: To be perfectly honest I think the best use of this unit is in conjunction with some sort of 2 base warp prism harass. the harass hopefully does some damage but the important part is gaining vision of your terran opponents SCV, using the Replicator to morph into an SCV and then gain access to quasi fixes to the real problems with Protoss IE producing ghosts to emp their ghosts, medivacs cuz your units can't heal, vikings cause you don't have an Air to Air armor bonus unit etc etc etc.
I still think this is awful cause at this point your not playing Protoss your plating Proran and Prozerg and i didnt pick Protoss to use Ran and Zerg units but its pretty much ur best bet.
This will never work. You have to go down the protoss and terran tech trees at once. Investment in production/tech is going to put you far behind in army. Maybe in a very late game scenario I can see it working... but at that point you might as well replicate the ghosts.
I can't see how this is a balanced unit as it now stands. Imagine PT unit comps v T unit comps late game. It's a no brainer who will win that match +20 minutes in. (Listening to state of game confirmed this for me(
On October 26 2011 02:56 sVnteen wrote: replicate a banshee so that you have like 3 of them and send them to terran and the terran will be soooooooooooo screwed since he WILL lose SCVs to cloaked banshees and also will be forced to build turrets or scan all the time also this will totally kill 1 1 1 all in with banshees since it will die to replicated banshees + tanks
They're not cheap - terrans would be HAPPY to burn a scan (which costs 240-270 minerals from the loss of a mule) to kill a unit that costs you 200/200. You're just throwing money away doing that. You'd have to get like four worker kills to justify it with just one banshee, and depending on how far away his marines or vikings are that's gonna be close. And since you can only do it when he actually makes a banshee for you to copy, this is going to be a very uncommon situational tactic. Maybe if you use it to hit an expo that just got a bunch of mules dropped on it, but that's just making it even more situational.
EDIT: This may actually be one of the few cases where someone can say these words, but DTs are actually probably more cost-effective than that and could accomplish more or less the same thing.
By that logic, why do Terran make banshees in TvT?
scans are also very limited early on, Terran really needs those mules early game
Well when Terran makes a banshee it doesn't cost 200/200 does it...
Having it cost 200/200 via Replicant means you essentially have to do twice the damage as a Terran would in order to justify it.
I don't like the idea of the replicator at all. Stealing a unit to shore up Protoss's weaknesses? Why not work on their actual flaws with units instead of adding this stupid thing?
On October 26 2011 02:56 sVnteen wrote: replicate a banshee so that you have like 3 of them and send them to terran and the terran will be soooooooooooo screwed since he WILL lose SCVs to cloaked banshees and also will be forced to build turrets or scan all the time also this will totally kill 1 1 1 all in with banshees since it will die to replicated banshees + tanks
They're not cheap - terrans would be HAPPY to burn a scan (which costs 240-270 minerals from the loss of a mule) to kill a unit that costs you 200/200. You're just throwing money away doing that. You'd have to get like four worker kills to justify it with just one banshee, and depending on how far away his marines or vikings are that's gonna be close. And since you can only do it when he actually makes a banshee for you to copy, this is going to be a very uncommon situational tactic. Maybe if you use it to hit an expo that just got a bunch of mules dropped on it, but that's just making it even more situational.
EDIT: This may actually be one of the few cases where someone can say these words, but DTs are actually probably more cost-effective than that and could accomplish more or less the same thing.
By that logic, why do Terran make banshees in TvT?
scans are also very limited early on, Terran really needs those mules early game
Well when Terran makes a banshee it doesn't cost 200/200 does it...
Having it cost 200/200 via Replicant means you essentially have to do twice the damage as a Terran would in order to justify it.
No
Because you get free cloak.
a 200/200 ability on top of a 150/100 unit with FULL energy. And banshees dont die in 1 scan if you have any Apm and/or game sense
On October 26 2011 02:56 sVnteen wrote: replicate a banshee so that you have like 3 of them and send them to terran and the terran will be soooooooooooo screwed since he WILL lose SCVs to cloaked banshees and also will be forced to build turrets or scan all the time also this will totally kill 1 1 1 all in with banshees since it will die to replicated banshees + tanks
They're not cheap - terrans would be HAPPY to burn a scan (which costs 240-270 minerals from the loss of a mule) to kill a unit that costs you 200/200. You're just throwing money away doing that. You'd have to get like four worker kills to justify it with just one banshee, and depending on how far away his marines or vikings are that's gonna be close. And since you can only do it when he actually makes a banshee for you to copy, this is going to be a very uncommon situational tactic. Maybe if you use it to hit an expo that just got a bunch of mules dropped on it, but that's just making it even more situational.
EDIT: This may actually be one of the few cases where someone can say these words, but DTs are actually probably more cost-effective than that and could accomplish more or less the same thing.
By that logic, why do Terran make banshees in TvT?
scans are also very limited early on, Terran really needs those mules early game
Well when Terran makes a banshee it doesn't cost 200/200 does it...
Having it cost 200/200 via Replicant means you essentially have to do twice the damage as a Terran would in order to justify it.
Well, not so much. If a terran player gets just one or two and the cloak upgrade they're actually paying more than Protoss thanks to the upgrade cost. So Terran actually has to kill more to justify them in that case. But that's not really important. It's not about which race needs to do more to justify them - it's about whether or not YOU can justify them in the matchup you're in right now. Against Terran, it's tough, because they can scan and basically wipe out your heavy gas investment with just a mineral loss, which can really hurt as the midgame proceeds.
iky does actually make a good (albeit unintended) point - a lot of high level TvT players actually don't justify their Banshees. They're a risky play no matter who you are, and there have been plenty of games where someone went banshees, didn't do the damage they needed to, and then "just got killed." TvT, though, is such a damned turtle-fest and defender's advantage is strong enough that they often can be a bit behind and still be okay. TvP, though, is not TvT. Not only will you be throwing away precious gas if you fail to justify your banshees, you'll be taking up robo build time - and consider that you probably already had to make an obs to deal with Terran's original banshee. This will force your army to be gateway-reliant for longer, while Terran has likely continued uninterrupted production on his barracks.
This brings me to another problem with the idea. You can't just make replicants and have them sit doing nothing, hoping that Terran makes something you want. That's a waste of money that you need to actually build an army and do other fun stuff. If you do that, and no banshee or tank or whatever shows up, and Terran just comes knocking with a big standard ball of bio, what are you going to do with them? Nice 200/200 marauders you bought there You need to build them with purpose. But if you wait until the banshee is already in your mineral line to start making one, it's too late - you can't just let it have its way until you get a replicant out to copy it. So the only way this works is if you spot the port with researching tech lab and terran decides not to cancel. Then you should have enough time to get the replicant up fast enough to pull this off. That's no small feat - if that was easy to do, Terran would never be able to successfully use banshee harass in TvP, because it's only good as long as they don't see it coming.
I think there are a lot of potential uses for the replicant, but this particular one seems very situational and difficult to pull off reliably. Maybe it could work as a decent surprise attack if you, for instance, had a bunch of replicants already up that you were just about to do something else with, but then saw the banshee and thought "oh, he won't see this coming." But making replicants takes time away from building colossi (and immortals), which you might want against Terran.
I suppose replicating just one banshee would be quite cost efficient though. However I'm sure it won't be as useful, since the Terran knows that if he opens with banshee, there is a decent probability that a cloaked banshee will be used against him, and therefore will either not make the banshee or prepare accordingly.
I'd still just rather blizzard give us our own unique unit, if I loved Terran units so much I would just play Terran.
Im not so sure about the unit at all, why would any terran make a siege / banshee at all if theres a possibility of being copied. I do have a feeling this unit not gonna make it, it just makes terrans play standard bio with maybe ghosts and viking / medivac support.
Other than the ghost theres is nothing worth being copied, and even if you make a single banshee / siege / raven, the toss can get even 5 of those in a moment.
EPT
You need to build them with purpose. But if you wait until the banshee is already in your mineral line to start making one, it's too late - you can't just let it have its way until you get a replicant out to copy it. So the only way this works is if you spot the port with researching tech lab and terran decides not to cancel. Then you should have enough time to get the replicant up fast enough to pull this off. That's no small feat - if that was easy to do, Terran would never be able to successfully use banshee harass in TvP, because it's only good as long as they don't see it coming. 
