EPTfinally, can they be corralled by creating a ring of units on stop position - so theoretically, can they be "saved" and released all at the same time?
[D] Swarm Host Redundant? - Page 17
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gabelavon
Japan2 Posts
finally, can they be corralled by creating a ring of units on stop position - so theoretically, can they be "saved" and released all at the same time? | ||
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Rafael
Venezuela182 Posts
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Shiladie
Canada1631 Posts
On October 25 2011 13:45 gabelavon wrote: this may have been addressed already, but how long do the locusts last? or do they not time out like broodlings? finally, can they be corralled by creating a ring of units on stop position - so theoretically, can they be "saved" and released all at the same time? they time out in 15 seconds I believe, and you can rally them wherever you want and you control them, so no need to corral. However they time out before new ones are spawned, so you'll never have more then 2 locusts per host. | ||
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Shiladie
Canada1631 Posts
On October 25 2011 14:01 Rafael wrote: I don't know about you guys but this unit frigging gross the hell out of me. Give me goosebumps of disgust lol. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=278820 it apparently is triggering a fairly common phobia in some people. All the better for me when I use them against people! | ||
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Bswhunter
Australia954 Posts
I think the demo video was acturally pretty bad at explaining the swarm host. I would've rather liked to see them burrowed around the XNW in the middle of the map, surrounded by a standard zerg army. I do think the swarm host might need some sort of ability or somthing to make it useful in battle. Especially if the enermy attacks right after the last spawn cycle finished. | ||
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neoghaleon55
United States7435 Posts
Consider that Terrans and protoss have way better sieging equipments. Where do all those locusts run into? Siege Tank fire Collosi Fire ...completely wasteful of a new unit. Did anyone notice how slow these locusts move? About the same freaking speed as a hydra off creep.... What is blizzard thinking?! My suggestion is to make them like infested Terrans in BW blow up and do medium amount of damage...wouldn't that be scary? free banelings lol | ||
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ectonym
United States147 Posts
On October 24 2011 23:40 Gfire wrote: Introduction I want to talk a little bit about the new unit they've shown for Heart of the Swarm, the Swarm Host. This is the Swarm Host in action. It's supposed to be the burrowed unit with an attack that we all wanted. I think this is great, but there are some things about it that concern me just a little. + Show Spoiler [Redundancy] + It seems to me like the Swarm host is too much like other Zerg units. People have mentioned the Brood Lord. I think to some extent, the Brood Lord is pretty close to this in concept, but I thought of another unit: The Infestor. The Infestor can burrow and launch Infested Terrans. Infested Terrans are a timed life unit, like the Locusts the Swarm Host launches. The player can choose where to launch the Infested Terran as well, giving more control over it. You have the ability to launch one over a cliff or a building, whereas the Swarm Host will only be useful in an open area, because the Locusts (I assume) have to walk around everything. You also get more control because you can choose when to build them and how many. The energy cost allows you to store up many and launch them all at once, or you can choose to use just enough to take out a dropship or something. The Infested Terrans have a ranged attack so they can hit air as well as other units at a distance. In addition, the Infestor can move while burrowed. And we can't forget, the Infestor can unburrow and use some other very strong spells as well. All in all, I think the Infestor just has much more utility as well as being able to do everything the Swarm Host does. It's not a very effective use of Infestor energy, so we don't see it in play. So it's not like the two units (as well as the Brood Lord) can't exist side by side, because they can be used for different things, but I think it would be even better to change the attack of the Swarm Host in some way to make it less like the other units. More diversity would be more fun and interesting, good from a spectator perspective, etc. + Show Spoiler [Damage Output] + I would say they're having a hard time balancing this unit between "Free Units = Too Strong" and "Low Damage Output=Too Weak." I think this concept of throwing free units at the opponent works better on the Hive Tech units (Brood Lords,) because they can get away with having some ridiculous damage output as well. With such long recharge time and low damage output, I don't really get the "swarm" feel I should. Dustin Browder says "Slow, methodical grind" but that doesn't seem to be consistent with "swarm" to me. Obviously they will be adjusting all the numbers for balance, but I think adjusting it in a more extreme way, not just basic numbers, would be good. I'm wondering if Locusts move faster on creep. Broodlings don't, but they hover off the ground. These guys look like they walk, so I would guess they do move faster on creep. That would be very interesting, it would make them stronger at defending than attacking. + Show Spoiler [My Idea] + I don't want to go into a lot of detail about the idea I had. It's just a way I thought in might make it better. Blizzard says they're open to suggestions, so since I did think of this, I guess I will post it on the bnet forums. I thought I'd share it here as well to see what everyone thought. With the removal of the carrier, maybe it could be a little more carrier-like. The Locusts could be more locust-like, something like a melee Interceptor I guess. They could fly out and stay until dying or the Swarm Host unburrows, and they could be replaces by an autospell like on the Carrier. They should of course have a different flight pattern than interceptors, something less geometric, more swarm-like. I guess there would be a maximum of 6, which is I think the number of holes on the back of the Swarm Host. Whether or not you'd pay for them would depend. They could be free, and this would line up with the current Swarm Host (probably a good idea,) as well as make it less like the carrier. This is a lower tier unit, as well, and having them for free makes more sense. On the other hand, getting to dump some minerals here, where there is no larva cost, could be helpful. I'd probably make them stay free, though. There are 2 easy ways to calm your (the OP's) concerns and leave the Swarm Host as it is: #1 The Locust should not be auto-cast. You have to be there every 24 seconds (*or whatever) in order to create said locusts. Depending on how badly that would nerf the unit, the Locusts would either be able to be manual-cast more often and/or the Locusts would do more damage or have more armor or HP or blah. Depending on a player's ee han timing the Swarm Hosts would be more and moreso effective at holding an area down with constant pressure. Of course the number of Swarm Hosts present, coupled with attentive micro (by always being there to launch that new Locust! this would also allow for the STOP LURKERS EFFECT w00t), would exponentially grow the effectiveness of the strategy. OR (not both) if the opinion is that the unit sucks and it overlaps other units: #2 to reference the Slow, Methodical, Grind (we all wish the Swarm Could truly be constant) - Let's imagine 4 Swarm Hosts. I move in with them. I burrow one, count to 3, burrow another, count to 3, etc etc. Now, I'm not math genius, nor do I know any math at all, but that would create a locust every 6 Blizzard seconds. (I hope I'm right - otherwise how embarrassing...) Then, can't we imagine a emerging setup / strategy whereas the Swarm Hosts are never meant to fire all at once, but depending on how many enemy units there are, they are all meant to be firing independently and in a mechanical, constant manner. This strat I believe would indeed help the Zerg hold a section of the map, either right before, right after, or even during the sometime intermittent waves of The Swarm. Of course the number of Swarm Hosts present, coupled with attentive micro (by taking notice of the timings so that staggering the attacks is more effective), would exponentially grow the effectiveness of the strategy. The more SH, the more constant The Swarm can be. ya? (I don't like the other idea about the cloak ground carriers) I don't think this overlaps with Infested Terrans. I don't think this overlaps with Broodlings. edit: typo | ||
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Shebuha
Canada1335 Posts
This is a crappy and less cool version of the Lurker, yeah??? Yeah, I played BW and am biased, but for goodness sakes. Like if you're gonna make a new unit, make it truly new, like the Oracle or shredder, don't make a shit version of a beloved unit from a previous game. | ||
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ectonym
United States147 Posts
On October 25 2011 15:00 Shebuha wrote: Why not just give Zerg Lurkers??? This is a crappy and less cool version of the Lurker, yeah??? Yeah, I played BW and am biased, but for goodness sakes. Like if you're gonna make a new unit, make it truly new, like the Oracle or shredder, don't make a shit version of a beloved unit from a previous game. Because Lurkers were awesome, and this is not a time to be nostalgic but to evolve the Swarm and use newer effective strains. | ||
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KimJongChill
United States6429 Posts
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TutsiRebel
United States172 Posts
late game swarm host drops sounds like a viable means of sniping tech / production in the lategame, especially with speedlings accompanying them. "Base is under attack" ---> I move my camera, see cracklings, send units to kill them. Clean them up, move my units back midmap. "Base is under attack" ----> wtf, again? boom, locusts fucking shit up in your base edit: now that i think about it, has anyone seen a locusts attack animation? I don't think I have yeah I think this unit has a lot of interesting possibilities | ||
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Velr
Switzerland10809 Posts
On October 25 2011 16:05 TutsiRebel wrote: dropping these in a base away from static detection is going to be VERY annoying for your opponent, especially if you spread them. Terrans would need to either get a raven or burn multiple scans, and toss would have to build more observers (as most toss just leave 1 obs in your base and 1 or 2 obs with their army) late game swarm host drops sounds like a viable means of sniping tech / production in the lategame, especially with speedlings accompanying them. "Base is under attack" ---> I move my camera, see cracklings, send units to kill them. Clean them up, move my units back midmap. "Base is under attack" ----> wtf, again? boom, locusts fucking shit up in your base Uhm.. here is the realistic scenario if your force, as Zerg, is not overwhelming (as in it doesn't matter what you drop): You drop. Terra sends units to defend. Terra cleans up Zerglings/Locusts (why would he miss that there are locusts in there?). Terra watches were the Locusts spawn which are no danger to him because they don't even reach his forces whiteout additional support. Terra kills Swarm Hosts. I would MUCH rather just drop Banelings and burrow them all around the base... | ||
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VoiceOfDecember
Australia206 Posts
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NeoCyberD
Switzerland65 Posts
You can use it instead of using 25 energy on a Infestor... If you burrow them one after another, they create a line which will consume alot of damage... So you dont have speedlings to be sacrificed... But its still way too expensive... | ||
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theBizness
United States696 Posts
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Klockan3
Sweden2866 Posts
On October 25 2011 16:34 theBizness wrote: Best case scenario: force tanks to unseige to target host. T moves tanks forward, re-seige, fire etc. in the time it takes for another wave to come out... wasn't this unit pitched as something used to apply pressure? Now it's "but you need zerlings/banelings/infestors with them for them to be useful." If you just sit them there in realistic numbers, they won't do much. Its not like the swarmhost can't unburrow and move back as well... Do it like this: Burrow, spawn hosts, attack and unburrow and move away. Terran now thinks that you got swarmhosts outside his base so he moves out and wastes a scan for nothing. | ||
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Charon1979
Austria317 Posts
Best case scenario: force tanks to unseige to target host. Why? Just wait for the first wave -> stim a couple of marines (scan) -> profit | ||
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reDicE
United States1020 Posts
On October 25 2011 16:45 Charon1979 wrote: Why? Just wait for the first wave -> stim a couple of marines (scan) -> profit If there are infestors there, that wouldn't work. | ||
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aWildRATTATA
Netherlands49 Posts
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TheDraken
United States640 Posts
have less health spawn faster and hop like grasshoppers? i would think it would make them more effective (less tank fire) but marines can still clean them up. plus, (and this is a big plus) they could be used with the main zerg army since they won't be competing for surface area like broodlings do. hopping locusts would feel pretty zerg to me. | ||
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