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[D] Swarm Host Redundant? - Page 12

Forum Index > SC2 General
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KrUtiAL
Profile Joined April 2010
United States41 Posts
October 24 2011 21:56 GMT
#221
You people act like the Swarm Host is built to be used by itself. You supplement it with protective units (Lings/Banelings/Mutas) to protect them if an opponent decides to push up against them. Its the same concept as Tank/Marine. In my opinion its a great unit
MattO1337
Profile Joined August 2011
United States203 Posts
October 24 2011 22:00 GMT
#222
Brood Lord + Swarm host + Infestor would be so op.
Just burrow everything under the BL's and spawn a million infested terrans
MarinePrince.929 - Son of MKP - Fan of MKP, IdrA, HuK, Demuslim, PuMa, Axslav, and MMA.
ArvickHero
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
10387 Posts
October 24 2011 22:01 GMT
#223
On October 25 2011 06:56 KrUtiAL wrote:
You people act like the Swarm Host is built to be used by itself. You supplement it with protective units (Lings/Banelings/Mutas) to protect them if an opponent decides to push up against them. Its the same concept as Tank/Marine. In my opinion its a great unit

It's like completely useless on its own, which is the problem. Lurker also needed supplementary units to be fully effective, but up until a certain point in all matchups, Lurkers did their job very well just by themselves, allowing Zergs to drone and tech up as needed. And once they were complemented by units and spells, they were truly a fearsome unit ..

I guess I wouldn't have as much of a problem if they didn't say that the Swarm Host was meant for controlling space, but instead a support/"siege" unit (which Lurker can do arguably just as well)
Writerptrk
theBizness
Profile Joined July 2011
United States696 Posts
October 24 2011 22:06 GMT
#224
On October 25 2011 06:56 KrUtiAL wrote:
You people act like the Swarm Host is built to be used by itself. You supplement it with protective units (Lings/Banelings/Mutas) to protect them if an opponent decides to push up against them. Its the same concept as Tank/Marine. In my opinion its a great unit


Tank way easier to maneuver and much higher rate of damage/better damage delivery.
Less money for casters, more money for players.
Traveler
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
United States451 Posts
October 24 2011 22:15 GMT
#225
On October 25 2011 06:56 KrUtiAL wrote:
You people act like the Swarm Host is built to be used by itself. You supplement it with protective units (Lings/Banelings/Mutas) to protect them if an opponent decides to push up against them. Its the same concept as Tank/Marine. In my opinion its a great unit


The problem is that in between their "firing" times they are completely useless units, and thus are simply taking up resources and supply in your army...
Thus if the terran has a large enough army he could just run forward and kill your army before the next spawn and then take care of the swarm hosts.


They do however seem like they make bio play a better option for a terran going up against this tech path... considering how dangerous they look against an immobile army with splash.
Can you ever argue in favor of something without first proving it?
Shiladie
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Canada1631 Posts
October 24 2011 22:16 GMT
#226
While I really like the unit concept I definitely think they may need a buff from what we see in the video, but I don't see blizz having a problem doing that. With the number of possible things they can change that can make the unit any degree of 'better' that they want while not making it overpowered

Locust move speed
Locust spawn speed
Locust duration
Locusts getting hunterling leap/cliff walk

These can all even be lair or hive tech upgrades for it, and is all on top of the usual things that can be tweaked about a unit (damage/cost/health/etc)

Personally I'd rather have the more interesting thing be the hive upgrade, and we can get locusts hopping up and down cliffs and leaping into battle.
TWIX_Heaven
Profile Joined June 2010
Denmark169 Posts
October 24 2011 22:18 GMT
#227
Personally i think it is a great unit!

The idea that it takes 15 seconds for them to spawn new units is only fair, if they came out all the time, marines would have a hard time dealing with pathing/ getting past the locusts.

The idea i think is that you make the terran react, sure, on their own they suck, but with infestors or lings+ vipers in the back they are deadly!

Imagine the following, the locust comes out run for it and die, terran seizes the opportunity, scans and runs out, but this is like running into zerg "siege fire", fungals, lings and or banelings will have to close a shorter gap suddenly, which is what makes this unit so powerful. Remember, with Broodlords you can use micro / high ground / range to take them out with vikings for example, you don't risk your marines / tanks, you need only to fear the fungals hitting your vikings.

also, they are lair tech and burrows (even without burrow tech I assume). Which forces detection, especially for terran, requiring more scans or ravens being used.

Also they are great for defense, run out with spawned locusts for meat shield (90hp!!!!) and maximize damage with lings or even top it off with blinding cloud for maximum awesomess.

The idea that this functions like a siege tank is very much true, but instead of the siege fire itself being the danger, it is the risk of dealing with the unit that is high, Remember locusts just has a rally point, their range is far greater than a broodlord or siege tank and very much forces a reaction. It also does not suffer from friendly fire or splash which means you have to battle it head on.

i think it will solve a lot of issues for zerg and i for one will have a ton of fun using it, especially to pressure terrans more in the mid-early late game. definitly not a worthless unit and far more interesting than a lurker (a aoe spine crawler unit is not a siege unit in the same way)

just my 2cents
Anarchos
Profile Joined April 2011
Sweden7 Posts
October 24 2011 22:20 GMT
#228
I will most likely be very annoying. A bit like 1 DT can pretty annoying. Place 1 somewhat close to the oppnents main. They have to spend APM finding it or will start to tear the base apart. Shift click rally point to force wasted scans and such =) Constantly streaming them into the opponent fortifiction will be a good way to keep em busy and keep track of the opponent.

I definitly think it will have some great uses.
BraveProbe
Profile Joined October 2011
36 Posts
October 24 2011 22:21 GMT
#229
It's basically a lurker with a paint job (lair tech space controlling unit that is cheap on Larva). I'm sure they're going to balance the unit out by release, and then it'll serve the same purpose, which is very nice. This should give the zerg more options on 2 base lair tech, and will make the 3rd easier to take (whether it is before or after lair tech). Maybe it'll even give the zerg some tactical play (kill sequences) in conjunction with the viper on 2 base, which is just more welcomed variety.
Startale Legend Fan Club
fleeze
Profile Joined March 2010
Germany895 Posts
October 24 2011 22:26 GMT
#230
On October 25 2011 07:06 theBizness wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 25 2011 06:56 KrUtiAL wrote:
You people act like the Swarm Host is built to be used by itself. You supplement it with protective units (Lings/Banelings/Mutas) to protect them if an opponent decides to push up against them. Its the same concept as Tank/Marine. In my opinion its a great unit


Tank way easier to maneuver and much higher rate of damage/better damage delivery.


it has one thing every "space controlling" unit needs: SPLASH
seriously, i think this unit sucks balls in its current state. why do we need more broodlings/infested terrans? we have zerglings that are in low numbers "free" as well. even better it's actually useless if your going ling/bane (blocking your units) and with roaches its redundant (they tank too). so you can use it to tank for your hydras at best. 2 free zerglings every 15 sec. that's a fucking joke and worth 1! egg you would have to sack for a pair of zerglings.

let it at least spawn banelings, they will still have to move from the swarm host to the tanks that they will never reach... or make it SWARM units. 15 sec for 2 units is ridiculously lame. 1 unit every 2 sec would be worthwhile to break a siege position. readjust stats so they are easily killed but theres just more and more swarming in. that could at least keep the tanks occupied with shooting them.
even better just replace it with the lurker that's already in the game files or come up with a REAL siege unit, not this kind of crap.
0neder
Profile Joined July 2009
United States3733 Posts
October 24 2011 22:29 GMT
#231
On October 24 2011 23:57 Panzamelano wrote:
and no... zerg doesnt need a carrier... the carrier was bad for 2 reasons.
1.incredibly hight tech cost.
2. took too long to get to it.

Umm, those things applied in BW and it was great in the right situations. They just need to tweak micro and make a cheaper AoE air unit like the corsair to combat vikings.
0neder
Profile Joined July 2009
United States3733 Posts
October 24 2011 22:30 GMT
#232
I'd rather have them come out more frequently and be weaker. Faster than a brood lord, but they die sooner. Maybe even more of them. Great idea though, this is a MUCH better concept than the infestor and I hope it eventually replaces it.
TWIX_Heaven
Profile Joined June 2010
Denmark169 Posts
October 24 2011 22:31 GMT
#233
i would also like to point out that these small locusts guys took a beating from two bunkers and 5 (!!!) siege tanks, reached the bunkers did a little bit of damage, took another shelling and died, that's pretty damn tough, and 5 tanks are pretty much midgame at which point you could easily afford 4-5 of these, i really think they are a lot better than people think.
EnclaveUSA
Profile Joined August 2011
United States18 Posts
October 24 2011 22:34 GMT
#234
What if change their role to something, like scourges? That atacks ground and air, like banelings, but without splash, with low HP and low damage. So there will be many kamikaze-locusts, that flyes from Swarm Host to enemy targets, exploding on them and dealing small damage.

Remember flying scourge from RTS called "Perimeter"? It flyes in big numbers into your building or units, exploding, but dealing very small damage.

What if Swarm Host will generate something, like scourge, another temporary kamikazes, but without splash, but able to atack air and ground.

And look at early versions of Swarm Host. Previously we had flying locusts.

[image loading]
KWik-E
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States72 Posts
October 24 2011 22:37 GMT
#235
On October 25 2011 07:31 TWIX_Heaven wrote:
i would also like to point out that these small locusts guys took a beating from two bunkers and 5 (!!!) siege tanks, reached the bunkers did a little bit of damage, took another shelling and died, that's pretty damn tough, and 5 tanks are pretty much midgame at which point you could easily afford 4-5 of these, i really think they are a lot better than people think.


I thought it was really impressive too. Too many haters hatin' in here!
Shiladie
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Canada1631 Posts
October 24 2011 22:38 GMT
#236
On October 25 2011 07:30 0neder wrote:
I'd rather have them come out more frequently and be weaker. Faster than a brood lord, but they die sooner. Maybe even more of them. Great idea though, this is a MUCH better concept than the infestor and I hope it eventually replaces it.


I'd be careful with the more/weaker concept, as they will quickly run out of melee-space on whatever they are attacking. I prefer the less higher hp/damage units. We need to consider the ability to stagger the locust spawns to create a steady stream of locusts, preventing splash from doing as much, and not giving time to counter.

Considering 12-15 mutas is a regular harass group of mutas, spend that instead on swarm hosts and you can have 2 locusts spawning every second and running at a terran base for no cost, remembering these things have 110 hp right now.
Kyrth
Profile Joined July 2010
United States101 Posts
October 24 2011 22:38 GMT
#237
The shredder acts more like a lurker than the swarm hosts. It seems zerg will never get aoe damage that isn't melee... or both melee and suicidal. If they allow me to play aggressive to punish a fast expand then I guess they work well enough. It feels like they will only be useful for worker harass at undefended expos. They look terrible, but I can't really judge until I try it.
[Erasmus]
Profile Joined September 2010
Australia286 Posts
October 24 2011 22:38 GMT
#238
i wonder if you can do hold lurker style tricks with swarm hosts... i.e. have 5 or 6 burrowed swarm hosts somewhere, bait your enemy on top while hold position is on, then let them all spawn a wave of locusts at once so the melee units do good damage.

Don't see how that's better than burrowed banes though, I guess.
penguinking
Profile Joined July 2011
United States23 Posts
October 24 2011 22:41 GMT
#239
the thing is the swarm host seems like a tier 2 unit, and Zerg needs a siege unit in t2, or at least it would be welcome.
saying the swarm host and infestor should be exclusive is like saying the HT and collossus should be exclusive for redundancy's sake, the fact is they do similar things but for very different reasons and in different ways. the Infested Terran deal lots of damage quickly if you use a lot of them, and the swarm hosts is more of a slowly dealing damage until you leave, like the difference between dropping a thor in your mineral line and putting siege tanks up out side your natural.
Stay awhile and listen.
Nazarid
Profile Joined February 2010
United States445 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-24 22:43:31
October 24 2011 22:42 GMT
#240
Fleeze, Zerglings are in no way free... mineral cost is small yes... But that's a larvae I could use on another unit... or drones... they are not free in the slightest...

So many people in this thread think they will be used Alone... and without any support what so ever... You ever seen collosi or siege tanks all alone? no never... stop being single minded and think about all the options zerg already have and the other new unit zerg have in combo with infestors would make them even more deadly .. from just the video(I know numbers etc will change before release don't troll) the siege tanks were unable to just Blast them down only after 3 shots did they die. that's a decent amount of damage soaking obviously they could move faster but Even if they stay with the exact way they are in the video they will be a great asset to any zerg that wants to either Hold their choke point from pesky harassing units like the hellion or to help push back a Terran siege line. I am very happy with this unit esp if supported properly this unit could be very good... obviously if you use them alone.. the wave gets cleared and then terran/zergs/protoss move up and clean them out. they need to be protected not left alone to die.
Randomize the world, and Life shall be given.
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