EPTThe Swarm Host is a cool idea, but it needs to do whatever it does faster, like the Lurker in SCBW, which could devastate lines of marines really quickly. They even said they needed to find a way to "clean up a lot of marines really fast," but I'm pretty sure that a group of stimmed marines would be able to just run in and dispose of these slow shooting Swarm Hosts with a single scan.
[D] Swarm Host Redundant? - Page 14
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TSL-Lore
United States412 Posts
The Swarm Host is a cool idea, but it needs to do whatever it does faster, like the Lurker in SCBW, which could devastate lines of marines really quickly. They even said they needed to find a way to "clean up a lot of marines really fast," but I'm pretty sure that a group of stimmed marines would be able to just run in and dispose of these slow shooting Swarm Hosts with a single scan. | ||
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fusihunter
Australia208 Posts
I'd be interested to see if you could use this as drop defense. Perhaps one of these, and a spine. | ||
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Asymmetric
Scotland1309 Posts
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Disarm22
United States151 Posts
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BinxyBrown
United States230 Posts
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Nin-x
17 Posts
On October 25 2011 08:35 TSL-Lore wrote: One thing that really bothered my when Dustin was talking about the Swarm Host was that he kept saying that Zerg was the "slow, methodical grind" race, but i think this is already fundamentally flawed. Zerg isn't suppoesd to be a slow methodical grind, it's supposed to be fast reacting and swarming. The Swarm Host is a cool idea, but it needs to do whatever it does faster, like the Lurker in SCBW, which could devastate lines of marines really quickly. They even said they needed to find a way to "clean up a lot of marines really fast," but I'm pretty sure that a group of stimmed marines would be able to just run in and dispose of these slow shooting Swarm Hosts with a single scan. I'll have my infestors waiting for the marines =) Small clumps of marines just love fungal | ||
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Falcor
Canada894 Posts
On October 25 2011 08:29 Nin-x wrote: It does control space on the map, but i think you will have to help it a bit. For example, vs toss pick off the observer and they can't pass unless they are willing to take some damage. So pull the observer with your viper to pick it off, and toss will turn around i best. (Never see protoss players with more than 1 observer anyways lol) VS terran the same applies. Put a few baneling bombs around the map and some swarm hosts elsewhere and the terran will have to scan all over the place to move. If a raven is out, pull it out with your viper and pick it off. sooo like i said? but i think your over estimating the dmg this guy will do. sure if you let your units sit there and get hit it will work well. but im sure everyone has the basics of move stop command micro down. and with 15 seconds cooldown you should beable to deal with them quite easily unless theres units with them like i said. Which makes them alot less usefull imo. since a group of units alone would control that space. The swarm host will control space, but you can't expect it to hold off a large force alone. It shouldnt hold off a large force but it should delay it and i dont see it doing that. especially since the swarm host itself is such a slow unit. Its not like the lurker where once it was deteced could ru away and reburrow and delay them more. | ||
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Harbinger631
United States376 Posts
On October 25 2011 08:40 Asymmetric wrote: But it isn't a lurker. It's a siege unit. The range of its attack is huge. It's effective radius looks even larger than a siege tanks (atleast equal). The units job is to simply force enemies out of there defensive position because otherwse they'll keep comming under attack. And if you can force Terran or Protoss armies into open ground/creep to fight on zergs term then you've got a big advantange. This. I'm excited for this unit because it gives the hydra some use. Hydras are awful as attacking units, but could be pretty great in a defensive role. | ||
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Falcor
Canada894 Posts
On October 25 2011 08:40 Asymmetric wrote: But it isn't a lurker. It's a siege unit. The range of its attack is huge. It's effective radius looks even larger than a siege tanks (atleast equal). The units job is to simply force enemies out of there defensive position because otherwse they'll keep comming under attack. And if you can force Terran or Protoss armies into open ground/creep to fight on zergs term then you've got a big advantange. why not just use blinding cloud and zerglings/roach/hydra? | ||
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Supamang
United States2298 Posts
In terms of redundancy, i think this unit is different from Infestor and Broodlord by the fact that it requires no energy to produce its units and that it doesnt need to be in range of anything to start spawning shit out. Broodlords can only spawn its broodlings by getting in range of enemy units, which makes them vulnerable to vikings or blink stalks and such. Infested Terrans require energy that could be spent on other spells, meaning you better be sure those ITs are put in a good location (also putting Infestors in danger of getting killed). Swarm Hosts will require detection to combat, can produce units without even seeing the enemy, and dont need to save up energy to do it. I dunno, I think its subtly different enough to warrant a new unit | ||
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Kring
Portugal70 Posts
On October 24 2011 23:57 Panzamelano wrote: To be honest the "slow" spawn rate can be fixed by mannually burrowing your swarmhosts in groups of 2-3 instead of just burrowing them at the same time... giving you a steady line of locusts to attack. .... geek shivers up my spine, awesome Swarm host is awesome. | ||
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brownthing
United States189 Posts
On October 25 2011 08:40 Asymmetric wrote: But it isn't a lurker. It's a siege unit. The range of its attack is huge. It's effective radius looks even larger than a siege tanks (atleast equal). The units job is to simply force enemies out of there defensive position because otherwse they'll keep comming under attack. And if you can force Terran or Protoss armies into open ground/creep to fight on zergs term then you've got a big advantange. Lurkers are considered siege units. | ||
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infinity2k9
United Kingdom2397 Posts
On October 25 2011 08:35 TSL-Lore wrote: One thing that really bothered my when Dustin was talking about the Swarm Host was that he kept saying that Zerg was the "slow, methodical grind" race, but i think this is already fundamentally flawed. Zerg isn't suppoesd to be a slow methodical grind, it's supposed to be fast reacting and swarming. The Swarm Host is a cool idea, but it needs to do whatever it does faster, like the Lurker in SCBW, which could devastate lines of marines really quickly. They even said they needed to find a way to "clean up a lot of marines really fast," but I'm pretty sure that a group of stimmed marines would be able to just run in and dispose of these slow shooting Swarm Hosts with a single scan. Don't you notice that they deliberately made Zerg the slow methodical grind race? Infact in the alpha of WoL it was even more the case; lurkers and a few other defensive options were still in the game. It's like they intentionally wanted Zerg to be the turtle race and creep across the map like a slow push from Terran in BW. I don't think that's a particularly good idea in my opinion though. | ||
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z00t
Australia976 Posts
When differentiating Zerg siege from that of other races', this is exactly the sort of thing I was hoping for - not another 'long-ranged' unit, but one which technically has no range, but which just spawns melee units infinitely. | ||
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HughJorgen
Australia37 Posts
It gives Zerg an ability they just don't have at the moment. Did you see them 'outranging' siege tanks? Free is infinitely better than cheap, and zerglings aren't even cheap when you take larvae into account. IMO this is an excellent solution to providing a seige type weapon for Zerg. Can you imagine giving z a tier 2 long range unit alongside fungal growth? I loved lurkers, but I much prefer this idea and I simply don't understand people saying this is unzergy. I just watched Blizzcon Nestea vs MVP and I reckon Nestea would have given his eye teeth to have swarm hosts that match to pressure the middle (let alone blinding swarm) | ||
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flanksteak
Canada246 Posts
They don't need to be attacking anything, but you just burrow and rally? So you could just spawn them all over the map for scouting, checking for pylons, prevent expansions etc. If a terran is setting up a tank contain, you can send them down the ramp for free, if you had enough of them it'd be harder for them to just sit outside your base. This applies to heavily fortified positions as well. Or if they're dropping you a lot, you could leave a swarm host behind and at least have something there in addition to spines/spores. I don't see how it could be completely useless - it all depends on how they balance the unit. If Blizzard decided they should spawn every 5 seconds and then explode for splash damage on death, do you think it'd be useful then? We'll have to see what they have planned. | ||
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freestalker
469 Posts
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CosmicSpiral
United States15275 Posts
On October 25 2011 07:34 EnclaveUSA wrote: What if change their role to something, like scourges? That atacks ground and air, like banelings, but without splash, with low HP and low damage. So there will be many kamikaze-locusts, that flyes from Swarm Host to enemy targets, exploding on them and dealing small damage. Remember flying scourge from RTS called "Perimeter"? It flyes in big numbers into your building or units, exploding, but dealing very small damage. What if Swarm Host will generate something, like scourge, another temporary kamikazes, but without splash, but able to atack air and ground. And look at early versions of Swarm Host. Previously we had flying locusts. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/eO68H.png) It reminds me of the Defiler's ultimate from Hero Attack, which sounds really cool. | ||
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Xcobidoo
Sweden1871 Posts
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CosmicSpiral
United States15275 Posts
On October 25 2011 08:59 infinity2k9 wrote: Don't you notice that they deliberately made Zerg the slow methodical grind race? Infact in the alpha of WoL it was even more the case; lurkers and a few other defensive options were still in the game. It's like they intentionally wanted Zerg to be the turtle race and creep across the map like a slow push from Terran in BW. I don't think that's a particularly good idea in my opinion though. Zerg certainly doesn't play like it. That's the definition of marine-siege tank Terran. | ||
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