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the swarm units need to move faster and the rate of spawning needs to be quicker. In fact it should just spawn mini-banelings that blow up for like 5 damage each in splash. I think all zergs are worried like I am that a terran bio army is just going to roll up on this, see the spawns and stim-kite-lol to victory... Protoss would probably just blink-snipe.
The video shows how the swarmers are blowing up an entrenched spawn... Well that doesn't really seem useful, isn't that the new zerg caster's job with the new 'dark swarm' ?
The lurker accomplished a few things; Giving zerg the ability to defend fixed positions, and the ability to attack requiring a detector to counter it. The lurker by itself was never meant to clear an entrenched defensive position. The spawns move so slowly I would imagine people stumbling on a lurker field and then just running away and taking no damage. In terms of comparing to siege tanks or colossus... Well it can't shoot over terrain gaps, can't shoot while unburrowed...
I'm not saying its a dumb idea, the idea has potential just right now seems to be implemented pretty poorly.
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It seems to me like people are really failing to understand that it is intended as a support unit.
I would say that it is more aimed at ZvT, rather than ZvP, and is mainly aimed at helping to break Seige Tank lines.
People saying that the weakness of it is how Seige Tanks will unseige and kill it, are failing to see that they have achieved their goal already. The moment they unseige, you swarm with Zerglings and Banelings.
Obviously, on their own they are weak. But, the same can be said for Brood Lords.
From what I understand, they are available at Lair tech. So, they are not intended to be strong late-game units. They are aimed at giving Zerg players a way of breaking Seige Tanks without having to tech to Hive.
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The unit will be fixed b4 release if your brains too slow to actually see what it could possibly do perfected then there is no hope for you.
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On October 25 2011 05:24 RealReality wrote:
The unit will be fixed b4 release if your brains too slow to actually see what it could possibly do perfected then there is no hope for you.
haha, all you do is go around trolling. it's kinda cute
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Infested terran is not in the slightest the same as the swarm host, and you neglect the energy cost for infested terrans which perhaps is cheap but not free. Just because they both spawn units doesn't make them the same. For a infestor to launch 2 infested terran will cost you 50 energy, and I rather save that energy for fungals. Besides infestor can not lockdown pathways forever, which a swarm host could possibly do.
Broodlords can't be on there own like that they need a center army under them to work the best. Locking down pathways just make vulnerable. The fact that the swarm hosts has to burrow make them less fragile aswell for that purpose. Besides swarm host is not hive tech.
I like the concept of the unit in general, which is all I can comment about, perhaps not as good as a lurker but still, it could generate some good strategies, offensive and defensive.
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This is what concerns me:
Imagine sending twenty zerglings into a midgame ball of marine+tank (don't care if the tanks are sieged or not). How many marines die? How many tanks die? None, right? Now do it 15 seconds later. Still, none die. And again. None die. That's why the Swarm Lord isn't going to be able to break tank lines. Sending slow melee units into high DPS ranged units never works, even if the melee units are free. (And if the locusts get buffed to the point where they can break tank lines, then they'd just be too generically OP)
This new unit sounds like it'd only be useful in an actual fight, where you'd get some locusts to host on... more other units? It's not like the locust itself does anything special.
Also, it bothers me that zerg still doesn't have a unit that can attack while cloaked...
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I feel like Blizz is trying so hard to make a lurker-esque unit here, but they're too stubborn to actually bring back the lurker, and so we get this funky unit that spawns shit that can be kited and killed every 15 damn seconds. Blizz, we won't hate you if you bring the lurker back...seriously.
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1 lurker never did anything. it was when you had 2/3 on a choke that denied terran bio. or 10-12 that contained a toss with observer sniping and lings lings lings.
so will 3 spawn hosts protect a ramp? i cant imagine it could. they attack. rines stim get medic healed and kill the hostlings. and continue up the ramp.
will 10-12 contain a toss? they attack, cannons/stalkers/zealots kill the hostlings and continue massing up.
only with an added range unit, will spawn hosts kill things. as opposed to a lurker, which needed a melee unit, to get into position to kill things. it will defend chokes, it will be a droppable harras unit.
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Swarm host looks gay of fu imo. A slow DPS siege unit? The reason AOE 'siege' units were made was to do quick damage (penalize mistakes) and with the swarm host it looks as though it's just another unit for terrans to practice marine micro on.
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I think blizzard could have been a bit more innovative when it came to this unit, its pretty boring almost like building a spine crawler. On the other hand I also think the lurker would be a bad idea for sc2. The fact that units clump big time will make blizzard nerf the crap out of the unit.
I think with so many free units infested terrans, broodlings and now this it might be too much considering how i hate facing infested terran and broodlings already.
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On October 25 2011 05:22 Sicariidae wrote:
It seems to me like people are really failing to understand that it is intended as a support unit.
I would say that it is more aimed at ZvT, rather than ZvP, and is mainly aimed at helping to break Seige Tank lines.
People saying that the weakness of it is how Seige Tanks will unseige and kill it, are failing to see that they have achieved their goal already. The moment they unseige, you swarm with Zerglings and Banelings.
Obviously, on their own they are weak. But, the same can be said for Brood Lords.
From what I understand, they are available at Lair tech. So, they are not intended to be strong late-game units. They are aimed at giving Zerg players a way of breaking Seige Tanks without having to tech to Hive.
Precisely. It performs the role of breaking tank lines at tier 2 instead of tier 3. That is a totally different purpose than Lurker, no comparison between the two is relevant.
People who want it to spawn weaker units faster are ignoring the tank value of the unit. The one thing zerg needs to charge tanks is a zealotish unit to soak up 2 shots while the lings follow behind.
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How about giving the locusts the burrow charge ability Burrow Assault on autocast like the new ability the Ultralisk got?
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On October 25 2011 05:22 Sicariidae wrote:
It seems to me like people are really failing to understand that it is intended as a support unit.
I would say that it is more aimed at ZvT, rather than ZvP, and is mainly aimed at helping to break Seige Tank lines.
People saying that the weakness of it is how Seige Tanks will unseige and kill it, are failing to see that they have achieved their goal already. The moment they unseige, you swarm with Zerglings and Banelings.
Obviously, on their own they are weak. But, the same can be said for Brood Lords.
From what I understand, they are available at Lair tech. So, they are not intended to be strong late-game units. They are aimed at giving Zerg players a way of breaking Seige Tanks without having to tech to Hive.
Really great 8th post! Nice to see someone who put some critical thought in to their response.
I agree that Swarm hosts are ZvT favored, however i think they can also be used to over run a postion.
As it is right now, if the Zerg kills an army of P or T for that matter they really can't choose to just counter attack and win the game, its risky. We often have to take that advantage, by getting up more drones, and bases.
Though i feel with the swarm host is allows Zergs to potentially overrun a fortified position, or at least pressured a defensive position. Making it harder for that player to get back in to the game. Right now its to obvious what a Zerg player would favor to do.
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On October 24 2011 23:50 ProxyKnoxy wrote:
Imagine Swarm host/infestor/brood lord.... *shivers*
Imagine viper/infestor/baneling :D
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10387 Posts
On October 25 2011 05:22 Sicariidae wrote:
It seems to me like people are really failing to understand that it is intended as a support unit.
I would say that it is more aimed at ZvT, rather than ZvP, and is mainly aimed at helping to break Seige Tank lines.
People saying that the weakness of it is how Seige Tanks will unseige and kill it, are failing to see that they have achieved their goal already. The moment they unseige, you swarm with Zerglings and Banelings.
Obviously, on their own they are weak. But, the same can be said for Brood Lords.
From what I understand, they are available at Lair tech. So, they are not intended to be strong late-game units. They are aimed at giving Zerg players a way of breaking Seige Tanks without having to tech to Hive.
They are saying that it's intended for "map control" though, which I doubt it can do effectively. It's a great support unit in battles since it'll generate free cannon fodder, but it wouldn't be able to control area nearly as well as Lurkers can.
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I think he unit would fit better if it pop weaker locust but more often.
2 locust every 15s feel weak. The locust themself are pretty good ( 110 hp, 14 dps for free ) but against a medium fortify position, you will need so many swarm host to even do something usefull.
It's the kind of unit who scale a lot with numbers, but in direct battle they will not be that good. Battle occur, they spawn locust once.. battle end before the second wave occur. :/
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United States5162 Posts
On October 25 2011 05:57 ArvickHero wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2011 05:22 Sicariidae wrote:
It seems to me like people are really failing to understand that it is intended as a support unit.
I would say that it is more aimed at ZvT, rather than ZvP, and is mainly aimed at helping to break Seige Tank lines.
People saying that the weakness of it is how Seige Tanks will unseige and kill it, are failing to see that they have achieved their goal already. The moment they unseige, you swarm with Zerglings and Banelings.
Obviously, on their own they are weak. But, the same can be said for Brood Lords.
From what I understand, they are available at Lair tech. So, they are not intended to be strong late-game units. They are aimed at giving Zerg players a way of breaking Seige Tanks without having to tech to Hive. They are saying that it's intended for "map control" though, which I doubt it can do effectively. It's a great support unit in battles since it'll generate free cannon fodder, but it wouldn't be able to control area nearly as well as Lurkers can.
How so? What made lurkers so much better at map control?
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People are crazy if they think this isn't a great unit. it currently fulfills a role that nothing in the Zerg arsenal does right now. Basically broodlords at lair tech, with longer range, can't be hit by air, and the locusts have far more HP and dps than broodlings.
I don't understand the bitching at all. I really don't.
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I see huge potensial for this as a harrash unit though, burrow one of these at edges of every opponents base and suddenly they will have to spread out a lot and really stretch their multitasking.
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10387 Posts
On October 25 2011 06:04 Myles wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2011 05:57 ArvickHero wrote:On October 25 2011 05:22 Sicariidae wrote:
It seems to me like people are really failing to understand that it is intended as a support unit.
I would say that it is more aimed at ZvT, rather than ZvP, and is mainly aimed at helping to break Seige Tank lines.
People saying that the weakness of it is how Seige Tanks will unseige and kill it, are failing to see that they have achieved their goal already. The moment they unseige, you swarm with Zerglings and Banelings.
Obviously, on their own they are weak. But, the same can be said for Brood Lords.
From what I understand, they are available at Lair tech. So, they are not intended to be strong late-game units. They are aimed at giving Zerg players a way of breaking Seige Tanks without having to tech to Hive. They are saying that it's intended for "map control" though, which I doubt it can do effectively. It's a great support unit in battles since it'll generate free cannon fodder, but it wouldn't be able to control area nearly as well as Lurkers can. How so? What made lurkers so much better at map control?
Swarm host just generates really tanky units that can delay (I'm assuming locusts will not deal much damage, just tank like a boss), but not hold on their own. Lurkers however dealt decent damage + line splash, and could hold chokes and areas fairly well on their own.
Not only the damage, but the fact that the Lurker is "cloaked" when its burrowed, whereas the Swarm Hosts' locusts are not burrowed and will die quickly. Several Lurkers will ward off large numbers of Zealots in PvZ pre-obs because Protoss cannot do anything about the Lurker, but against a Swarm host in similar situation, Zealots could potentially just kill the locusts and then raze the expansion before locusts respawn or reinforcements
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EPT
