EPT[D] Swarm Host Redundant? - Page 9
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NukeD
Croatia1612 Posts
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Vexas
United States98 Posts
My only worry here is with these MASSIVE numbers of spawned units (Infested Terrans, Broodlings, and now Locusts) taking over the board, how will Protoss deal with the numbers on the ground effectively without needing large amounts of T3 units (Colo and HT specifically) and AoE in the mid-game. | ||
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Shiladie
Canada1631 Posts
On October 25 2011 03:28 DEN1ED wrote: They could definitely make lurkers work... They are too good because things clump up? What about siege tanks? Would they be too good if they costed 500/500? You can always tweak cost/damage to make something balanced. I don't even play zerg but I want to see lurkers. They make for far more interesting games both as a player and spectator. The swarm host looks incredibly boring. you missed the second part, either they are too good or next to useless (like carrier currently is) Yes you can always tweak something to be balance if nothing else changes, and everything else is perfectly balanced. This is not the case, there will be a lot of balance tweaks to the game that will then break the lurker balance because it would be so hairline to make it work. If lurker were added in LotV I can see them possibly working, but they would be far too much of a pain to babysit through every balance patch from now until 'final balance' I also want to see lurkers, as a zerg player and spectator they are a lot of fun, but balance wise I can entirely understand them not being in the game. | ||
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Wren
United States745 Posts
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babysimba
10466 Posts
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silentblob
Great Britain40 Posts
I'm sure you'll learn to love them | ||
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Namu
United States826 Posts
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Kaiyotic
United States90 Posts
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r_con
United States824 Posts
On October 25 2011 03:55 babysimba wrote: I hope they can make it such that the longer you burrow, it 'charges' up on the minion count, if any enemy comes near it, a large wave will be released in 1 shot. Balance the stats such that when used offensively, it is not 'op' but good enough to slowly kill off a dying turtling enemy. Its main purpose should be for zonal control, also can serve as a good food-efficient solution for drop defence. I like this idea, like you can have choice, of constant harass, or a unit that is ambushy, like burrowed banelings but not so limited, and with more utility. I Like the idea of the unit then. It would solve both problem then. basically for 200/100, it feels like a shitty siege tank, that is not good at controlling space, and not that good at siegeing.the opponent. | ||
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Qikz
United Kingdom12033 Posts
On October 24 2011 23:55 solidbebe wrote: I like your idea more honestly, every 15 seconds is just useless, eventhough they do alot of damage. From what I've heard, it's 15s for the first set then each time it throws out more at once and at a faster pace. | ||
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OhMyGawd
United States264 Posts
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snozberry
United States126 Posts
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andrewlt
United States7702 Posts
And for all the problems it's causing, I don't get why they don't just fix the unit clumping to make units clump less. They removed muta stacking from BW and the viking flower from early SC2 because it makes it harder for people to count their opponents' units. Trying counting clumped up marines and zerglings. They already admitted that HoTS is basically a reset balance-wise anyway. | ||
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Gfire
United States1699 Posts
On October 25 2011 04:26 andrewlt wrote: What made the lurker good in BW is that you need to burrow/unburrow it to get good positioning. This seems like a fire (burrow) and forget unit. I wasn't impressed at all. And for all the problems it's causing, I don't get why they don't just fix the unit clumping to make units clump less. They removed muta stacking from BW and the viking flower from early SC2 because it makes it harder for people to count their opponents' units. Trying counting clumped up marines and zerglings. They already admitted that HoTS is basically a reset balance-wise anyway. Yeah, I was hoping they'd do some drastic changes like increase the radius of everything and change all the speeds and times to be played on normal speed. | ||
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SpoR
United States1542 Posts
The name of the unit sucks. really bad. The look of the unit sucks. really bad. The use/ability of the unit is questionable. It's no lurker, but as a zerg I will take whatever I can get and that's kind of sad to be honest. I kind of like the OPs suggestion, reminds me of the old alpha spell the queen had where it casted a razor cloud of bugs or whatever. Overall I just hope the locust launcher is useful. | ||
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Shiladie
Canada1631 Posts
On October 25 2011 04:40 SpoR wrote: MY two cents: The name of the unit sucks. really bad. The look of the unit sucks. really bad. The use/ability of the unit is questionable. It's no lurker, but as a zerg I will take whatever I can get and that's kind of sad to be honest. I kind of like the OPs suggestion, reminds me of the old alpha spell the queen had where it casted a razor cloud of bugs or whatever. Overall I just hope the locust launcher is useful. Name/art are personal pref, and I won't really argue on those points (I'm not a big fan either) It definitely is not the lurker and needs to stop being compared to the lurker in direct ways. It is very similar, and has a similar role. The key word there though is similar. The swarm host has the ability to do a lot of things the lurker couldn't, while not being able to do a lot the lurker could do. With correct balancing of the stats, and a possible hive upgrade to keep it viable at hive while not being overpowering at lair, I think the unit concept can go a long way, and does indeed fit themactically and balance wise with the zerg army. Vs terran, the zerg army is un-deniably massively better versus a terran army that is moving or in a bad position. What the swarm host's design goal is, is to have something that forces the terran army to come out and engage you, as well as the minor inconvenience of forcing scans. Let's say a zerg manages to get a few of these outside the terran's base, and the terran pushes out and has enough that the zerg doesn't want to engage. The zerg then unburrows and pulls back while the terran kills the most recent wave of locusts and burrows again after the cooldown on locusts is up. Now a new wave of locusts hits the moving terran army, doing some minor damage. The terran continues across the map, being hit by waves of locusts as the swarm hosts unburrow - retreat - burrow over and over across the map, exactly like lurkers did in BW, just for different reasons. Finally once the terran is in the middle of the map, just moving onto creep, the rest of the zerg army hits along-side a wave of locusts, easily wiping out the whittled down terran force. Or, you can retreat the swarm guardians to the sides, allowing the terran push out of their base, moving back in to continue sending locusts into the terran base, entirely cutting off reinforcements and possibly breaking the front for free. My suggestion for a hive tech upgrade for them would be to give locusts the hunterling ability from the HotS single player, essentially cliff-hop and a 'charge' ability, along with possibly a speed upgrade. taking the unit from simply useful to whittle down at lair tech and making it a very credible threat at hive. | ||
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GreatestThreat
United States631 Posts
But I do have some problems with the mechanics. I think the idea to take away the timed life on locusts and replace it with a maximum number per Host, similar to interceptors and carriers, would work better, with one stipulation. Like interceptors, the locusts would also need a maximum range from which they could move away from the swarm host. Also the speed at which the hosts respawn waves of locusts would need to be increased, but this is kept in check by the maximum number cap. Basically they would only be able to replenish the ranks, not generate a million units. Lastly, if the swarm host unburrows, the locusts then go on a timer until they expire. | ||
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Black Octopi
187 Posts
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GreatestThreat
United States631 Posts
For those not aware, it's 200/100, I'm not sure about the supply cost though. | ||
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Buzerio
United Kingdom135 Posts
On October 25 2011 05:07 GreatestThreat wrote: The respawn rate is longer than the timed life on the locusts, so you will never have more than 2 per host with the current stats. Something that doesn't feel very swarmy to me considering the expenses of the swarm hosts. For those not aware, it's 200/100, I'm not sure about the supply cost though. of course, this is subject to change since the game isnt out yet, discussing how usefull a unit which isnt even in beta yet is stupid | ||
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