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TheRealPaciFist
United States1049 Posts
Make the locust spawn at 6 away from the Swarm Host, make them move slightly faster, and reduce their respawn rate (down to 5 or 10 seconds from 15). I feel like that would be "swarmy" enough edit: but the more I think about it, the more I feel like it's fine now (though... 12 seconds or whatever would still be nice, lol) | ||
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Noocta
France12578 Posts
On October 25 2011 06:07 ArvickHero wrote: Swarm host just generates really tanky units that can delay (I'm assuming locusts will not deal much damage, just tank like a boss), but not hold on their own. Lurkers however dealt decent damage + line splash, and could hold chokes and areas fairly well on their own. The locusts actually deal nice damage. 14 dps, that's like 3 marines. | ||
Myles
United States5162 Posts
On October 25 2011 06:07 ArvickHero wrote: Swarm host just generates really tanky units that can delay (I'm assuming locusts will not deal much damage, just tank like a boss), but not hold on their own. Lurkers however dealt decent damage + line splash, and could hold chokes and areas fairly well on their own. I dunno, I guess I just saw lurkers always being used to delay more then actually deal damage. It was nice when the Terran player messed up and sent a huge ball of marines to their death, but it never seemed like it happened that often and it was usually a dance of positioning tanks vs positioning lurkers. | ||
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Peleus
Australia420 Posts
Every other 'ranged' unit in the game has an instant attack which can do damage against any number of other units. You can't intercept or stop a siege tank hit, or collosi, or yes even a broodlord as they do intial on hit damage. I can see swarm hosts being completely nullified against a massive siege tank line, what they are designed to try and counter, but the tanks simply taking out the melee units before they get in range after a critical number of tanks is reached. Once more leaves us with no ability to counter the tank lines. | ||
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aWildRATTATA
Netherlands49 Posts
Let's say you drop 2 of these with an infestor into his base. The DPS and hardiness of these guys will probably shred bio to partyhats even without a fungal. The tank will probably still outrange it, but hell, you can abduct any brave leapfrogging tank to your killing pit of locust with the new viper. | ||
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Charon1979
Austria317 Posts
The locusts actually deal nice damage. 14 dps, that's like 3 marines. 1) they are melee 2) they take years to finally spawn 3) its a failed concept 1) means most of them will die before even coming close to its target. AND most important: you cannot use them to focus fire. 2) means you wait for a wave, stim, scan, kill. Toss should have zero problems due to observer and blink. 3) It should be the Zerg "zoning unit" but doesnt create a zone. Locusts spawn in pattern, not when a enemy comes into Range (you have to rally them - are they even on a-move?). Nobody will back off if there are 5 Hosts burrowed - unlike if there are 5 tanks sieged. The damage is just ridicolous low. Yes the DPS seems high at the first glance (twice an infested marine) but if you look to the video you see: the range seems extremely short and all that 9 (!) swarmhosts seem to accomplish ist killing a bunker with the aid of siegetank splash (thats 400 dmg coming from 18 Locusts). | ||
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FreeGiraffeRides
5 Posts
On October 25 2011 06:21 Peleus wrote: The biggest problem I have with Swarm Host (concern?) is that the damage can essentially be intercepted before being inflicted on the opponent. Every other 'ranged' unit in the game has an instant attack which can do damage against any number of other units. You can't intercept or stop a siege tank hit, or collosi, or yes even a broodlord as they do intial on hit damage. I can see swarm hosts being completely nullified against a massive siege tank line, what they are designed to try and counter, but the tanks simply taking out the melee units before they get in range after a critical number of tanks is reached. Once more leaves us with no ability to counter the tank lines. I agree with this, although there's certainly ways to work around it (Blinding Cloud), it still seems like this unit isn't really the "siege attacker" it's supposed to be. Why not give it an initial strike, like the Brood Lord? Then it's able to chip away a little bit over time, even against a really well-entrenched position. You could make it stylish and unique, like, newly hatched Locusts are covered in acidic slime for a couple seconds, splattering it around as they go. Kill a fresh locust, get gooped. | ||
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Nazarid
United States445 Posts
The infestor is a caster unit that requires energy to use its abilities, the swarm host does not. It just spits out units over a period of time and is pretty good for controlling a choke point, Infestors are not the best at controlling locations on the map they slow down a push or allow your push to kill units trying to escape/kite. I would prefer to use the infestor energy to Fungle/Mind control rather than deploy infested terrans, but Infestors can sneak into enemy lines for extra damage a swarmling cannot as easily(I could envision Swarm ling drops into a mineral line =) that might be a little fun) Brood lords are hive tech and are much more powerful but very weak vs air units. sure they deal damage and summon a unit that can offer a way to soak damage, which can be considered like the swarm host or vice versa, but the Swarm host is available off of Lair tech and is much cheaper also not as easy to kill if given the right protection(same goes for Brood lords) This unit has a very swarm like feel, I do not see things attacking thru a choke with 8+ of these burrowed there, at least not easily and freely. Brood lords and Infestors Do not offer much(Trolls will be trolls, I understand they do offer some map control just not as much) in the ways of map control these Swarm hosts allow you to effectively lock down a choke point with a handful of units instead of forcing your swarm army to head on/flank an army going up your choke point your able to soften them up while they attempt to break the defense line. Some in the thread say that these will be useless because they are not a ranged attack.... When trying to break a siege tank line as it is now zergs are forced to sacrifce a few infestors energy to toss infested terrans to draw siege tank shots away from the lings/banes so they can at least almost make melee range before getting hit by the 2nd volley, with the swarm host any zerg will be able to send waves of units into the seige lines and force it to fire upon re-spawning units that cost nothing. I see a great many uses for this unit. | ||
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SpaceYeti
United States723 Posts
Stop Swarm Host < Stop Lurker Swarm Host drops < Lurker Drops Swarm Host zone control < Lurker zone control I don't think the Swarm Host looks very good at controlling space at all. I just see these dying to enemy fire before they even reach their target. And why would I ever use swarm hosts vs siege tanks if I have Blinding Cloud? Not excited about this unit at all. I miss my lurkers.  I'd even be okay with them removing burrow from banes if i could just have my lurkers back. | ||
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straycat
230 Posts
Obviously (?) you can't argue that they are useless with arguments like "the terran will just scan and move his siege tanks forward" etc. You can say that about every unit in a way that makes them seem worthless. "Hellions? The zergs will just make roaches and queens and stop them, they are worthless". Every unit will need to be used with others and synergize with them to really shine. I would guess. Well, hellions do kind of good on their own. But anyway. You get what I mean. Edit: I am presupposing that the locusts are on a-move when spawned. Everything else would be... fail? Also, yes, I am a bit worried about the locustsa being mitigated by a critical amount of for example siege tank volleys before they even reach their destination. | ||
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Nazarid
United States445 Posts
On October 25 2011 06:26 SpaceYeti wrote: And why would I ever use swarm hosts vs siege tanks if I have Blinding Cloud? Because you can use them both? forcing the tanks to be unable to fire and having swarms of free units to attack them? | ||
ArvickHero
10387 Posts
On October 25 2011 06:13 Myles wrote: I dunno, I guess I just saw lurkers always being used to delay more then actually deal damage. It was nice when the Terran player messed up and sent a huge ball of marines to their death, but it never seemed like it happened that often and it was usually a dance of positioning tanks vs positioning lurkers. In ZvT they did delay, in the sense that it kept Terrans in their base pre-Vessel due to risks of 2 stop Lurkers decimating an entire army of MnM, and how well they hold choke points to expansions. Late-game, areas controlled by Lurker + Swarm was nigh impossible to break without Vessels .. In PvZ they also were used to delay, but controlled area superbly well (ever get Lurker contained? rofl ..). Swarm Host seems inferior in its ability to delay or control area. Like said after I edited my post, the Lurker's other advantage is that its totally cloaked, instead of being partially cloaked. Swarm Host's attack being reliant on visible Locusts will be shot down quickly by a high-DPS ball (think marine/marauder medivac double drop). An area controlled/protected by several Lurkers will be infinitely safer than an area controlled by several Swarm Hosts because of the advantages of having a line-splash damage attack that is difficult to avoid, versus the spawning of locusts that can be kited or dodged while all the Drones/hatcheries get killed. Same applies for PvZ, where attacking into an expo protected by Lurkers pre-obs is a insane risk that will probably ensure a quick death of your army, versus Swarm Hosts' locusts that can be force-fielded while the Protoss force deals its damage (then recalls away). | ||
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Yoshi Kirishima
United States10348 Posts
Idk though, i think it definitely needs readjusting. A locust kind of feel sounds really cool. Maybe it could lifesteal? (probably too wc3-ish some people would say). | ||
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FaCE_1
Canada6174 Posts
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Nazarid
United States445 Posts
On October 25 2011 06:30 FaCE_1 wrote: video is funny.. If you see this, you just unsiegem,, run scan and rape those strange little thing lol. Then the zerg army attacks while everything is unsieged =) ending your game =( | ||
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Garmer
1286 Posts
i really think that, with some decent stats the SH become interesting | ||
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ArvickHero
10387 Posts
On October 25 2011 06:32 Nazarid wrote: Then the zerg army attacks while everything is unsieged =) ending your game =( or Locusts just get slowed by Marauders, making them even more useless and the Locusts get mowed down before they even reach a bunker due to the sheer insanity of Terran DPS | ||
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Umpteen
United Kingdom1570 Posts
These things are NOT lair tech broodlords. They allow you to do something for free that you wouldn't pay to do because it's pointless. Honestly, who would repeatedly rally a dozen slowlings towards the enemy or into an expansion in the midgame and expect anything to come of it? New Zerg unit: The Auto-Bronze. Meanwhile, for similar money, Terran gets... a 20 dps aoe perma-storm? | ||
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JiPrime
Canada688 Posts
The Swarm Host should just spawn locusts continuously without delay. | ||
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Ballistixz
United States1269 Posts
i can see it needing a buff or it will have to be changed entirely. my ideas were 1) increasing the ammount of locusts spawned to 4 even if its a hive tech upgrade. or 2) decreasing the cooldown from 15 seconds to 5 seconds. or 3) make it to where the unit LAUNCHES the locust eggs once every 15 seconds. the eggs do 55 impact splash damage and spawns 1 locust upon impact. | ||
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