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On October 24 2011 21:23 Slipspace wrote:
99% chance this is just a graphical mistake with the cliff or some kind of bug with the current HotS build. This is all based off of a single screenshot from a game thats not even close to a final version, so why would you be so confident this is actually a change?
The person who took the screenshot obviously played the game before reporting this change.
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On October 24 2011 20:08 VanGooL wrote:
I don't get it, protoss is ridiculously underpowered, terran all-ins are a joke and they keep nerfing protoss?
Whats going on lol.
Good question.
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Nerf to rushes, indirect buff to defence.
I like it.
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3 gate voidray out the window.
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On October 24 2011 21:30 []Phase[] wrote:
Nerf to rushes, indirect buff to defence.
I like it.
Nerf 3rax then, and bunkers can't be refunded anymore. Deal?
I don't think anyone has a problem with the nerf conceptually. But the nerfs are being applied inconsistently as hell. e.g. 4gate is considered a long standing problem, but not 3rax?
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So has Blizzard made any confirmation on this?
If not, you could safely assume it is a bug in the script or a map bug. You can't make to big conclusions because you saw it in a match, could be a bug which HotS probably is full of atm.
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Horrible change IMO. Really hope this doesn't make it into the actual game.
If it somehow does, I'd want the original range back. PvP isn't 4gate vs 4gate any more except for on Tal'darim, which this change has no affect on. On every other map 4 gate is stoppable even with 2 gates (which I regularly use), using sentries to block the ramp meaning no vision of the high ground in the first place.
The main cannon rushes that I worry about are behind the mineral lines on xelnaga, and at the natural of a zerg on most maps. Both of which again won't be affected by this change. On maps like antigua where the mineral line can be hit from the low ground if the cannon gets up, thats a map design issue, same with metalopolis. Even still it shouldn't be a problem since you can actually see the pylon warping in from your main and the ramp is so close you can shut it down straight away
PvT 4 gating is just.... stupid, PvZ 4 gating is entirely unaffected by high ground warpins since overlords should easily spot it and you lose the warpins to lings while the spines delay at the front. The only way to properly do a high ground warpin from an early WP push in these matchups is with a warp prism, which, as you guessed, isn't affected by this change.
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On October 24 2011 21:28 Sated wrote:Show nested quote +There's a reason main bases have high grounds, ramps and chokes, so they can be more easily defended. Other races require a commitment to bypass these defenses. With this change, Protoss has to use drops like everyone else to get their units into someone's main. Great change. Scout the pylon and then kill the pylon from the high ground. It's radius isn't very big so it isn't that hard to spot if you're scouting properly. Congratulations, you've just killed the enemy's 100 mineral investment into an attack without taking any damage! Also, Protoss gateway units are WEAK to make up for offensive warp-ins.
Having the possibility to do something is still better than fundamentally not being able to.
Why should zerg/terran be forced to tech drops and not toss?
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On October 24 2011 21:36 grobo wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2011 21:28 Sated wrote:There's a reason main bases have high grounds, ramps and chokes, so they can be more easily defended. Other races require a commitment to bypass these defenses. With this change, Protoss has to use drops like everyone else to get their units into someone's main. Great change. Scout the pylon and then kill the pylon from the high ground. It's radius isn't very big so it isn't that hard to spot if you're scouting properly. Congratulations, you've just killed the enemy's 100 mineral investment into an attack without taking any damage! Also, Protoss gateway units are WEAK to make up for offensive warp-ins. Having the possibility to do something is still better than fundamentally not being able to. Why should zerg/terran be forced to tech drops and not toss?
Because of Warpgates, which have pros and cons.
Cons:
- No queuing, so keeping up with production becomes proactive (you have to actually move your camera to a place where you can do warp-ins)
- Gateway units are weaker such that offensive warp-ins aren't too strong
Pros:
- Front-loaded production (1st round of units has negligible build time)
- Warp-in wherever there's a pylon! Except, not so much anymore.
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then it RLY should have the old range back ... no warp up AND short range make no sense ...
also it destroys like 10 good pvt tactics and makes terran even easier to win since they no longer need to scout the edges of their base
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Get a prism, problem fixed.
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On October 24 2011 21:40 Neeh wrote:
Get a prism, problem fixed.
Snipe the pylon, problem fixed?
Unlike bunkers, they're not refundable.
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@neeh its not always that easy and you cant make 80% of the tacics with warp prism since the timing window is closed .... also its easier kill and have smaller warp in radius ...
just another bad change for protoss like nr 2521 on the list
"see protoss is weakest, lets weak them more"
i only can always see terrans say JAEH NICE MORE NERFS FOR P while they flame instant after someone even mention nerf 3rax bunkerrush etc
not bunker sell anymore then !
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United Kingdom12023 Posts
On October 24 2011 21:30 Brotocol wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2011 21:30 []Phase[] wrote:
Nerf to rushes, indirect buff to defence.
I like it. Nerf 3rax then, and bunkers can't be refunded anymore. Deal? I don't think anyone has a problem with the nerf conceptually. But the nerfs are being applied inconsistently as hell. e.g. 4gate is considered a long standing problem, but not 3rax?
The difference between 4gate and 3 rax is light and day. 3 rax units actually have to come from the opponents base where as 4gate just warps straight in next to you.
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a great change that should've been in WOL from the get go
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I really hope this wont make it into the game when it's released. So many cool tricks with low ground pylons that haven't even been explored yet.
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On October 24 2011 21:44 Qikz wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2011 21:30 Brotocol wrote:On October 24 2011 21:30 []Phase[] wrote:
Nerf to rushes, indirect buff to defence.
I like it. Nerf 3rax then, and bunkers can't be refunded anymore. Deal? I don't think anyone has a problem with the nerf conceptually. But the nerfs are being applied inconsistently as hell. e.g. 4gate is considered a long standing problem, but not 3rax? The difference between 4gate and 3 rax is light and day. 3 rax units actually have to come from the opponents base where as 4gate just warps straight in next to you.
Gateway units are balanced for this specific offensive scenario.
2 zealots do less dps than 2 marines. 1 stalker does less dps than 1 marine. MM eats them aliveeee (tasteless voice).
MM counters the hell out of such warp-ins so badly. Zerg is a closer fight, but it's still balanced such that roaches wreck zealots and are more cost efficient than stalkers. The only "hairy" situation is when your ramp gets FFed.
Beyond all of this, you can just scout the pylon.
edit: Also, derp. Proxy rax.
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Why you people think it is good change?Because it stops allins/cheese? Then please nerf terran and zerg allin/cheese (no more 1/1/1 , 3 rax bunker rush , early pools, roach ling allin) it just isn't fair that race that is doing worst and rarely can harras/be agressive loses many options to punish greedy players. Why zergs and terrans have to be 100% safe in order to play even game against toss?
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With nexus recall, I have no idea why they are keeping warpgates in the game at all.
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EPT
