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On October 23 2011 07:38 envisioN . wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2011 07:34 springtree wrote:On October 23 2011 07:31 envisioN . wrote:On October 23 2011 07:27 Keyz1 wrote:
That doesn't change the fact that you still need to pump 200 gas in order to get detection, not to mention probably taking longer than 17 seconds to hatch. You mean how a terran has to pump 100/200 to get permanent mobile detection? Notice the difference between (a) and (b) below. (a) detection (b) permanent mobile detection Thank you. Edit: I should clarify: "MULE". But its not like we have infinite scans. If you are keeping up with dropping mules, then there is only a slim margin of time during which you have scans available. Not to mention the fact that you lose 270 minerals every time you use a scan.
Here we go terran crying over not muling but don't want to have detection.
Do you not have worker the thing that's supposed to mine in the first place ?
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I dont get it why would they cut both mothership and carrier.
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Cuz they don't like protoss. -_(:/)_-
I don't know.
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United Kingdom12041 Posts
On October 23 2011 07:43 Cheerio wrote:
I dont get it why would they cut both mothership and carrier.
They don't work in the game currently as collosus counters are both AtA and you have to mass them, so by the time you get carriers/a mothership corrupters/vikings are already massed. Apparantly the Tempest is going to be good against anything clumped air and vikings and corrupters clump up a lot.
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On October 23 2011 07:40 springtree wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2011 07:38 envisioN . wrote:
But its not like we have infinite scans. If you are keeping up with dropping mules, then there is only a slim margin of time during which you have scans available. Not to mention the fact that you lose 270 minerals every time you use a scan. Again with the conditions... you say "infinite scans", I say "detection, period". Please note the difference between "having detection, albeit in limited fashion" and "not having detection". We all know scan costs energy and MULEs are awesome.
I see what you mean by not having any way to move out against DTs because zerg have a lack of mobile detection until Lair, but Terran cannot move out either because well placed DTs will cause you to run out of scans long before you reach the enemy player's base.
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what are these changes to the warp prism im hearing about where the warp prism can now warp in 8 zealots into the terran mineral line then somehow take them out of harms way when they are in trouble?
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I like Blizzard's changes to the Zerg units, but I wonder why they couldn't simply fix the Protoss air units instead of changing them entirely. I'm going to miss the Mothership  .
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On October 23 2011 07:59 roymarthyup wrote:
what are these changes to the warp prism im hearing about where the warp prism can now warp in 8 zealots into the terran mineral line then somehow take them out of harms way when they are in trouble?
And that differs from medivac drops in what way exactly? Aside from the obvious "building them on the spot" part.
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United States7483 Posts
On October 23 2011 07:59 roymarthyup wrote:
what are these changes to the warp prism im hearing about where the warp prism can now warp in 8 zealots into the terran mineral line then somehow take them out of harms way when they are in trouble?
What are these changes to the hellion I'm hearing about that makes them roflstomp zealots in fights?
You see how this theorycraft nonsense can make this go either way?
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they also interviewed artosis and incontrol, both of whom loved the Oracle. and "too expensive" is the easiest thing in the world to fix via patches.
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The more I think of it, there more skeptical I am for the replicant and for the removal of carriers/MS. Especially how tempest are different from Carriers (interceptors are great for confusing AI etc) and how the oracle have very little in common with the mothership after all...I have no clue what they mean by "making room" by removing them.
Which is why I really can't wait for the beta..
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dustin bowder: and only really special players can get this (hellion) to be a mass able unit for endgame battles
hells yeah dustin bowder thinks im a very special player and i have the replays to prove it
edit: srsly though i cant really see why the battle hellions is all that usefull since they will do less dammage than usual hellions because of their shorter range and unless they go from light to armored i dont see them being useful in tvz either and in tvt y i kinda like the sieged up tank warfar i dont whana be able to 1a at my opponent and destroy his army
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The polls for unit approval are worst towards the toss units.... I think the oracle is a gimmick in regards to a caster, would so rather have a raven with auto turrets would be better harass.......
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The more I think of it, there more skeptical I am for the replicant and for the removal of carriers/MS. Especially how tempest are different from Carriers (interceptors are great for confusing AI etc) and how the oracle have very little in common with the mothership after all...I have no clue what they mean by "making room" by removing them.
Mass Recall has gone to the nexus. Vortex is impossible to balance due to how it interacts with splash units like Archons.They weren't going to keep the Mothership in if one of its spells has become basically a macro mechanic, and the other is a balance problem--it'd basically just be a flying cloak field which isn't nearly worth it.
Carriers never gets used in SC2 anyway. If it wasn't in the game now, 99.9999% of sc2 matches would play out in exactly the same way, the exception being where Toss goes carriers and loses because of it, or Toss is so far ahead they can build whatever they want and win anyway.
For that matter, Carriers almost never get used in BW. Maybe one in a hundred pvts sees carriers, thats it. Korean commentators call them "space trash".
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toss units arent that bad really
Replicant: 200/200 siege tank to defend 1-1-1 easily. 400-400 to add 2tanks to your deathball to deal extra damage to those marauders
Oracle: 200gas unit to instantly disable all of your enemies bunkers and all of the marines inside for 45 seconds, thus making your 3gate/voidray all-in much stronger. or disable the enemies spore crawler for 45 seconds while DT's snipe the zergs hatchery. other than this the oracle hasnt much use
Tempest: from what it looks like this thing moves faster than vikings, thus it counters vikings / all air units. adding tempest to collossi deathball against terran should be nice
Nexus mass recall: free motherships for every base
Arc shield defensive spell on nexus: the END of early pool builds against toss. i honestly feel this should probably be removed, its not needed when we got recall and as a toss i feel early pool should be viable
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Ok... I just watched the Terran video... they just added units that are all noob friendly... (in my humble and probably stupid) opinion
"We wanted to add a different option from kiting micro" = add a unit that just tanks shit and needs no micro, battle hellion
"We wanted a hero unit who can 1-a" = we can 1-a -.- yea seriously...
Warhound: TvT used to be all about positioning and the advantages of it. Now, it doesn't matter because its better to not have position and push to win
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On October 23 2011 08:29 awesomoecalypse wrote:
Carriers never gets used in SC2 anyway. If it wasn't in the game now, 99.9999% of sc2 matches would play out in exactly the same way, the exception being where Toss goes carriers and loses because of it, or Toss is so far ahead they can build whatever they want and win anyway. On his stream, White-Ra uses them all the time vs zerg with great effectiveness. The key is that carriers need all three attack upgrades, the catapult upgrade, lots of expansions and a great support force which isn't possible on small maps...but is possible on large maps and is actually surprisingly effective. Poor White-Ra
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On October 23 2011 08:30 roymarthyup wrote:
toss units arent that bad really
Replicant: 200/200 siege tank to defend 1-1-1 easily. 400-400 to add 2tanks to your deathball to deal extra damage to those marauders
Oracle: 200gas unit to instantly disable all of your enemies bunkers and all of the marines inside for 45 seconds, thus making your 3gate/voidray all-in much stronger. or disable the enemies spore crawler for 45 seconds while DT's snipe the zergs hatchery. other than this the oracle hasnt much use
Tempest: from what it looks like this thing moves faster than vikings, thus it counters vikings / all air units. adding tempest to collossi deathball against terran should be nice
Nexus mass recall: free motherships for every base
Arc shield defensive spell on nexus: the END of early pool builds against toss. i honestly feel this should probably be removed, its not needed when we got recall and as a toss i feel early pool should be viable
your logic is undeniable....
lets just all switch to terran then we can just make our own vikings and tanks!!!
hurray for TvT!!!!!!!
Seriously if I wanted to play with the other races units I would just switch races.......
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On October 23 2011 08:29 awesomoecalypse wrote:Show nested quote +The more I think of it, there more skeptical I am for the replicant and for the removal of carriers/MS. Especially how tempest are different from Carriers (interceptors are great for confusing AI etc) and how the oracle have very little in common with the mothership after all...I have no clue what they mean by "making room" by removing them. Mass Recall has gone to the nexus. Vortex is impossible to balance due to how it interacts with splash units like Archons.They weren't going to keep the Mothership in if one of its spells has become basically a macro mechanic, and the other is a balance problem--it'd basically just be a flying cloak field which isn't nearly worth it. Carriers never gets used in SC2 anyway. If it wasn't in the game now, 99.9999% of sc2 matches would play out in exactly the same way, the exception being where Toss goes carriers and loses because of it, or Toss is so far ahead they can build whatever they want and win anyway. For that matter, Carriers almost never get used in BW. Maybe one in a hundred pvts sees carriers, thats it. Korean commentators call them "space trash".
Recalling to a building isn't exactly the same though. You can't make a bermuda recall to your enemies base with a proxy nexus 
I feel that both the Mothership and the Carrier could use a few tweaks rather than just giving up on them.
For example:
-Give carriers 4 armor
-Make it more micro friendly like BW
-interceptor heal
-reduce build time
PS: The real space trash would be scouts, a "space trash" doesn't win you OSLs.
Vortex is balanced by how expansive and rare it is to use to a degree. Perhaps they could replace the spell with something else or tweak it.Cloaking field is awesome, not sure why you would remove the protoss tradition of mass cloak.
Well I don't know how HotS plays yet, and I don't pretend to be a genius that knows something the entire Blizzard balance team doesn't see, but I just feel like more could be done before abandoning them. (There haven't been a single patch/PTR on the carrier)
The cynic in me wants to point out that they are waiting for LoV to fix everything, but that's beside the point.
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EPT
